Treatment for Reducing Arterial Plaque and Imflammatory Cells:
I would like to start this as a focused topic.
Background: I’m 69, have followed Bill Faloon / Life extension protocols for about 10 years. Doing the Dasatinib / Quercetin and Rapamycin treatments since mid last year. I have very low body fat, eat very healthy and have outstanding blood work. Model ldl/GSK triglycerides. Very low inflammatory markers.
Now I have 2 stints. Fixed 95 and 90% blockages in two main arteries. I was fortunate to go in to ER before some serious heart damage happened.
So digging into why: Plaque accumulation on the inner area of the artery wall.
So for me, figuring out how to REDUCE plaque seems like the biggest life extension action I can take. And I am sure this is true for many others.
Consulting with my heart doctor was not fruitful. He prescribed the cookbook set of meds: 10 mg of Lipitor, 40mg of Avorstatin, 61 mg aspirin, 75 mg Plavix (clopidogrel).
I got some good advise from folks on another forum herein. Found Avorstatin helps LDL/HDL but does nothing for plaque or inflammation. I’m now taking 40mg of Crestor, in place of the Avorstatin.
See Birmingham Medical News, New Plaque Study highlights Power of Crestor.
Very good!
Other: I’m looking to change Lipitor blood pressure med to Ramipril. This product seems to lower inflammation levels in the blood, whereas Lipitor does not.
Questions for discussion:
What else can we do to reduce plaque?
Is there something we are doing in our healthy protocols which causes more plaque buildup?
Cellular Inflammation in the Blood: how is this really measured? How do we reduce naturally? Do any of our senolytic treatments knock this down?
All: please pass along any good research things you have seen.
This is a great group!
Thank you!
BobM
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Bob, I am 79 year old male who had bypass surgery 26 years ago. Shortly thereafter I got involved with Life Extension and read several articles by an author named Dr. William Davis in the LEF magazine. He also authored a book entitled "Track Your Plaque".
I visited him in his office in Wisconsin. To make a long story short, he put me on lipitor and FISH OIL. The change in my blood chemistry was miraculous. The fish oil lowered my triglycerides significantly and also changed my LDL particle size to the large fluffy type that does not contribute to plaque. My carotid intima thickness has not changed in 20 plus years.
I get my oil from Costco and it is Natures Bounty The Kirkland brand is also good based on Consumer Labs analysis. I daily take about 5 grams of EPA/DHA from six capsules.
Note you have your statins and BP meds mixed up. Lipitor is a statin and not a blood pressure med. I take lipitor as it does not "seem"to cause as many issues as Zocor or Crestor. I cannot take Zocor as it elevates my liver enzymes. I have friends who cannot take Crestor due to mind fog.
I also take Ramapril for blood pressure control. It is considered by some to be "antiaging" as it activates the "Klotho"gene. You can check this out on google.
Also note that fish oil has myriad of other benefits and in my opinion (retired fish biologist) may very well be as important as other antiaging topics on this forum.
Finally, the above is based on my experience and I must emphasize that I am not a medical dr.
Best of Luck to you
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I swear by intermittent fasting in reducing inflammation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4257368/
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Look into high doses of the Vitamin K fraction MK7. Several studies have shown calcification reversal of aortic valves. There are several ongoing studies now pertaining to plaque/calcification reversal. Typically you'd want to take about 380 mcg/day
Also consider testing for Lp(a) as it is a genetic risk factor for heart disease.
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Randy B
Thanks Randy.
FYI group- what I found (correct me if anything is wrong):
Vitamin K MK7 is Menaquinone-7.
LEF Super K Elite has “trans Menaquinone-7”, 181 mcg, and other forms of vitamin K2. And K1.
A min dose of 45ug/day is required to activate osteoclasts carboxylation (whatever that is).
Mk7 has much higher bioavailability and is why it’s better.
This site has more info:
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BobM
more:
MK7 is shown to reduce arterial calcification. It functions as an inhibitor to calcium deposition.
Menaquinones occur naturally in fermented animal products, such as cheese and meat (go figure).
Mostly, MK7 is used to help with bone density and fighting osteoporosis.
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BobM The optimal dose of MK7 for reversing arterial calcification is approximately 380 mcg/day. This is based on studies examining how much Matrix GLA Protein (MGP) is activated in response to a dose of MK7.
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Go on a keto or LCHF diet and get insulin resistance under control
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Hey, great post! Are you saying that Senolitics + Rapamycin didn't seriously impact (or improve) arterial blockages? If so, kinda surprising. Thanks for sharing!! PS: I'm really liking the effects of Fisetin (2g x 2, every 3 weeks). I generally feel healthier the week after taking it. (Be it testosterone boost or whatever---blood work coming soon. Also it's a strong antiviral, with some strange blisters appearing then healing like an acne coming to head).
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To Gokhan, Paul B., Randy B., Andrew Y: Your response to Bob M"s inquiry on inflammation and plaque has significant benefit for the average person, but if this is only what I followed, I would be dead. I need my statin and fish oil to stay alive. Attached is a more recent paper on intermittent fasting which addresses the benefits for cardiovascular issues. There is no question that it is beneficial for a number of health issues.
https://www.gwern.net/docs/longevity/2019-decabo.pdf
However it is not sufficient for me. I have been a vegetarian for 5 years and on 5:2 diet for the past two years. I take a statin and big dose fish oil and my LDL is still marginal ( 85). My cardiologist wants to increase my statin dose. I have survived 26 years after my bypass without additional efforts, which has a probability of less than 5 %. I attribute this to my statin and fish oil. Attached is one of many references attesting to the benefits of a statin and fish oil combined.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915759/
If you check the volumes of references on google, you will find a conclusion that about 35 percent of the population needs a statin. Also, as indicated immediately above, there are benefits for integrating a statin with fish oil. Many of the references to this combination are derogatory in term of the value of non prescription fish oil. You would think the authors work for big pharma. You can check with Consumer Labs as to whether or not the over the counter brands fish oil are what they are supposed to be.
My suggestion to Bob since his condition, like mine, appears to be very severe is to continue his Crestor, do a CBC, lipid profile along with a VAP blood test and than start with fish oil (about 4 grams total of EPA and DHA) and repeat the blood work about 3 months latter. He can purchase the blood tests through LEF rather cheaply (God Bless LEF). He can also purchase the fish oil from LEF and be assured that it meets specification.
This brings me to the issue of fish oil benefits in general. LEF has multiple articles on the benefits of fish oil for numerous biological systems. Barry Sears has written extensively on the benefits (emphasizing reduction in inflammation) and published many books.. Another reference of particular importance to me (I am almost 80 years old) is a book entitled "The Omega 3 Connection" by Andrew Stall, 2001. The Stall book is about the benefits of fish oil in preventing dementia as well as a number of other neurological problems. Note, at 85 years old, 50 % of the population has some form of dementia. I just saw a recent peer reviewed paper that estimated fish oil with Vitamin B complex reduced alzheimers by 75 %.
If you read all of this, God Bless and please try not to hold any grudges, thank you.
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Peter, You are preaching to the choir about intermittent fasting (IF). I did it for 10 years and I did "real" IF. I ate nothing for 34 hours every other day. I make that distinction because so many people are doing the 5:2 diet (and similar) and think they are doing IF... They are not! Having done IF for 10 years (and Calorie Restriction for 10 prior) I have yet to see IF or a similar regime have the ability to reverse plaque in a timely manner. It is a very slow process. MK7 is probably the best choice for a "quick" reversal of plaque (and even then we are talking a good 1 to 3 years).
I'm surprised so many people are tracking their LDL-C and thinking it somehow relates to heart disease? Your LDL-C of 85 is absolutely meaningless. What is your LDL-P?
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Randy B: I have not done a LDL-P test for 20 years, since my meetings with Dr. Davis after my bypass. Note the VAP test I suggested to BobM includes a LDL-P test. I use LDL-C as a marker and it is not "absolutely meaningless". It saves me about $75 twice a year in terms of not paying LEF for the bloodwork for LDL-P.
LDL-C It has value once you establish your baseline. If I see my LDL-C go much higher, I will become more aggressive which includes an evaluation with a VAP test. As I indicated in my second response to BobM, it appears to work for me as I have not had another cardiovascular event in past 26 years. I also use the Triglyceride/HDL-C ratio (see Barry Sears) as a biomarker..
i do not know if MK-7 works, but fish oil unquestionably does based on extensive personnel experience as well as extensive literature. if BobM has a serious problem, and it appears that he does, I suggest that he read the references on fish oil and proceed accordingly which includes the VAP test. He will also benefit from the other extensive health benefits that fish oil offers.
By the way, I do get extensive MK-7 from LEFs "Health Booster".
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Peter H. Howe
Hi Peter, thanks for all your info!
I’ve made some progress.
1. Found the LEF super K was low in the K2 MK7. Only 181 mcg. So I am supplementing this with NOW MK-7, 100 mcg, 2 more per day (so one tab/meal). 380 mcg total per day.
2. Changed statin Med from avorstatin 40 mg to Rosuvastatin (Crestor) 40 mg. It’s a high dose. I hope to be able to take this down after 1-2 years.3. Increased my fish oil dose to 1500 mg, 3x/ day.
4. Changing blood testing to Monitor / look at LDL-P.
5. Adding another doctor. This one is at Mayo Clinic (Scottsdale AZ) in the heart group. He specializes in vascular disease / Prevention methods. (They have groups of heart specialists for each kind of heart condition- amazing group). He will be helping me with the CIMT testing to measure actual plaque changes. Mayo has good equipment for doing this test. This combo was hard to find. I’ll report more after a couple visits and test reviews. -
BobM Thank you for the info. Good luck. If you have info let us know what happens to your Tri/HDL. I have two family members who would not here today without Mayo- Rochester Mn. They had neurological problems.
LEF has article in August 2020 Mag on fish oil, yet to be published.
The Vit K suggestion I believe came from Randy. I was unaware of its benefit, as well as EDTA for plaque . I learned something. Good thread here.
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Peter H. Howe
Hi Peter and Group:
I’ll keep posting as data comes in.
Of interest now:
my last 12 months of blood work was very misleading! It said I was in excellent health!
6-28-20 data (stints went in 8 weeks ago). Hospital blood work was similar:
total cholesterol: 119
HDL 45
LDL 54
T.Chol/HDL Ratio: 2.6 (way way low risk)
Est CHD Risk: <0.5 (way low)
C-Reactive Protein: 0.60 (very low)
Hemoglobin A1C: 4.9 (excellent)
Apoliprotein B: 80 (good)
July 2019 Data:
total cholesterol: 138
Trig: 69
HDL 52
LDL 72
T.Chol/HDL Ratio: 2.7 (way way low risk)
Est CHD Risk: <0.5 way low)
C-Reactive Protein: 0.81 (low)
Hemoglobin A1C: 5.1 (excellent)
Apoliprotein B: 78 (good)
And my weight was way down. Body fat just 13.1%.The point here being is that I still had 95% blockage in my left main artery and 90% in the LAD.
No indication of it from all this happy stuff we do. Plaque was building and building. I am certain many others have the same thing going on.
So this mission is to get on a plaque reduction plan that works, and use a measurement method that is accurate. And get a Dr that’s thinks prevention using all the new things possible.
Cheers!bob
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I have no personal experience of it, but one therapy that some people say can reduce plaque is Vascular Rejuvenation using EDTA.
Here is a link:
https://brain.forever-healthy.org/display/EN/Vascular+Rejuvenation+using+EDTA
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Staffan Olsson
Hi Staffan, thank you. That reference was excellent. Some amazing results in there for plaque reduction and some other benefits.
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Staffan Olsson I have done about 75 edta chelations. After all of my experience and studying I have come to the conclusion that it is not the calcium that is being pulled out that makes it therapeutic. It is the preservation effect on the blood making the red blood cells soft and pliable reducing the scraping or scoring effect on the endothelium like a diamond cuts glass, hard enough rbc's cut the artery, then it heals with scar tissue which narrows the artery which makes it more prone to pressure increase at the narrowing which rescores the endothelium which then causes more scar tissue and presto you have artery narrowing. No one will tell you this, most chelations docs dont even know this, they just know it works so they don't bother looking any further into it. EDTA also removes iron which is also the other half of the equation to its benefit. Iron or ferritin is toxic and caused oxidative stress and damages the endothelium. You can donate blood to mimic the effect of chelation which removes ferritin from the blood and forces your body to make more rbc which are young and softer and more pliable and easier on the artery wall.
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Fred Cloud
Great post. I like the idea of giving blood regularly. Good one the add to my list !
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Fred Cloud Thank you for your response. I wonder if you can share your experiences of edta chelations. After 75 chelations your personal experience and the health benefits of the treatment is very interesting. ?
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Staffan Olsson I think the whole heavy metal removal theory is not the whole story. I had high ferritin and I think the chelation was helping compensate for it, it can pull the iron out of the endothelium and thin the blood and make things better for a while. If you think about it, most of these old timers that were getting chelation were men, men build up ferritin. I also was exposed to alot of lead as a child so I was trying to get rid of that. Dr Blumer who ran a study found it reduced heart disease and cancer deaths by a large amount, well that jives with the benefits of blood donors. It used to be very popular but you don't hear much about it anymore, have you ever done chelation? I think donating blood is going to get you similar results. If you wanted to do IV therapy for your heart I would recommend IV Plaquex. It is phosphatidylcholine and a bile acid that dissolved cholesertol out of the arteries. I have done that too, some chelations docs would alternate back and forth.
You can find docs who do it, it is also known as IV PTC, IV plaquex, IV PPC
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Fred Cloud Thank you Fred. I do other interventions for now, but any progression in the field of plaque reduction is very interesting to me.
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BobM
Here is another perspective on how to reverse atherosclerosis.
There is research aiming at reversing athrerosclerosis by resetting the microbiome. They have done it successfully on rats. But it is hard to translate into humans. But it is a another confirmation of the importance the gut and its microbiome has for wellbeing and good health.
https://www.lifespan.io/news/reversing-atherosclerosis-by-resetting-gut-bacteria/
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Staffan Olsson You may want to ask @garland he has had 50 of these plaquex treatments.
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Peter, LDL-C is worthless, absolutely worthless as a marker for heart disease. You need LDL-P tested. If LDL-P is normal/low, you are "safe" regardless of what your LDL-C is. If your LDL-C is low (aka good) and your LDL-P is high you are a walking time bomb.
The VAP test was worthless too that's why it was withdrawn from the market several years ago. I see it is back. The reason it was originally withdrawn (my conjecture) is that they were using some algorithm to Compute the various forms of cholesterol. They never showed data that proved their algorithm was accurate. Yeah, they claim they stopped the test because of investor support but I don't buy that flimsy story.
As far as LEF and MK7 you are getting a small fraction of what studies show you need to remove plaque from your arteries, which is close to 400 mcg/day. And remember LEF was selling a watered down version for years of MK7 that was a racemic mixture.. and claiming it was all Trans.
