Treatment for Reducing Arterial Plaque and Imflammatory Cells:

Paul Beauchemin You and others have missed my point on LDL-C. It has value as a trend marker on the lipid profile. I agree that LDC-P is superior, but I do not need one of these any longer and do not wish to incur the additional cost. As indicated in my previous comment to BobM above, I had bypass surgery 26 years ago, and the probability of me being alive 26 years later or not having another is less than 5 %. I referenced a Dr. Davis who worked out for me integration of a statin  (Lipitor)and fish oil to minimize my risk. His blood work depended on a VAP test which includes a LDL-P test. In my case it was the fish oil that resulted in the non inflammatory large LDL particles as measured by the LDL-P test in the VAP test. 

In my initial comments to BobM, I suggested that he do a  VAP test after experimenting with fish oil. I also suggested he measure his progress with a carotid intima test (CIMT). I do one of these every 2 years, and with one exception over the past 20 years, there has not been a plaque increase.

I agree with you on the triglyceride/ HDL ratio as an important biomarker to evaluate the possibility of heart disease and also suggested that BobM look at this ratio. According to Barry Sears as well as Dr. Davis, this is probably one of the best biomarkers to indicate cardiovascular problems and fish oil dramatically lowers the ratio ( at least in my case and references in the Sears books) due to the fact that it reduces triglycerides. Sears, as I recall, recommends 2.7 grams of EPA-DHA as a starting point. Dr. Davis started me on 4 grams (over the counter) and I continue with 5 grams today. 

 This brings us to value of LDL-C and lipid profile without a LDL-P test to me. On my last blood test my LDL-C increased to 87 (from~75-80) and my TotalC/HDL ratio  (also good marker) reached 2.8 from about 2.5. This ratio indicates that I am in good shape in terms of not having an ischemic heart attack, but I am not taking any chances and increased my lipitor.  I will do a chemistry profile, CBC and lipid profile in September. I have numerous uncles-great uncles who passed due to heart attacks in their 40s, 50s and 60s. As indicated by the Dr. in the Crestor film, genetics plays a large role in whether or not we have cardiovascular  problems. If you go through the 1,000s of papers on statins, you will find that about 35 % of us need a statin. I will be 80 in October, and hope to make it anther 10-15 healthy years.

Based on BobMs stent history, he needs to be extra vigilant. Each of us is different. You can generalize but a lot of us will die as a result. I had a father in law who passed several years ago at 97. He was a beef farmer with a feedlot in NW Illinois. I don't think he took a pill until he jumped off a tractor and broke his hip at 93. He ate meat and potatoes 3X/day and if you said anything about that lifestyle being unhealthy -"God Help You". I was within a few days of a heart attack at 54 following the same lifestyle.

I will leave discussion about the benefits of fish oil for anther day.

I love this site--- just started fisetin following Mayo Protocol after reading about it here and being forwarded to the "Healthy Living" risk assessment. As reported by others, I saw immediate results and will report out after my blood work in Sept.

Thank you everybody.

Peter H. Howe Good info Peter, do you manage your ferritin levels at all? This is a fascinating article on the role of iron.

http://nautil.us/issue/67/reboot/iron-is-the-new-cholesterol

Fred Cloud Fred, thank you for your comment and interest. My response will only increase confusion on cardiovascular issues-- but here it is:

I am severly hypogonadal and have been supplementing with androderm ( patch) for the past 20 years. If you read the early LEF literature ( see LEF's "Disease Prevention and Treatment") they reference the fact that some anemic individuals have lower levels of testosterone. This results in a a feedback mechanism to increase cholesterol and thus testosterone as testosterone is made from cholesterol after cholesterol has  been converted to pregnenolone etc. It has been shown, for example, that treatment with chlomazine, a gonadotropin stimulating hormone agonist which increases lutenizing hormone and thus testosterone, results in a decrease in cholesterol. With this short background I was always anemic prior to my bypass, and continue to be anemic occasionally.

I actually supplement with iron sulfate at 325 mg 3X per week. My iron was only 84 ug/dL  ( range 38-169) and my ferritin was only 50 ng/ml ( range from (30-400) based on my last blood test.

My total testosterone on my last blood test was only  197 ng/dl ( normal range is 264-916).

The interaction between totol T, free T and DHEA would take several more paragraphs, but simply put,  if you supplement with DHEA, the amount of free T increases from 1-2 % to 3-5 % which bring free T within an acceptable range.

Note also that metformin as well as calorie restriction will decrease total T. Apparently the increase in AMPK from either treatment is telling us that now is not the time for sex. 

I will end again with the statement that we are all different and it is unlikely that a single treatment, except for a statin plus fish oil, will solve a cardio problem for some of us.

Peter H. Howe sorry Peter, I totally disagree 

LDL-c is extremely bad as a trend tracker. It has zero correlation with the outcome we seek, that is, increased lifespan. 
 

It can do great harm if people use it to manipulate statins.

only sdLDL is important. 
 

I think the Lipid Hypothesis is flawed, but if someone buys it, at least be willing to pay a few extra $ to get a lipid subfraction 

Paul Beauchemin Disagree again. As I have said repeatedly, I did the LDL-P under Dr. Davis's care several times twenty years ago until he got my lipid profile where he wanted it as he treated me with a statin and fish oil. Referring now to my lipid profile with some emphasis on LDL-C is all I need until something goes wacky. As I have indicated several times, I also use the TG/HDL ratio  which has been around as a biomarker for over 20 years. This marker is profoundly influenced in a positve manner by fish oil and a statin. In my last blood test, there was a small  increase in LDL-C, Total C and TG/HDL ratio.  All of these values were in acceptable range. However, my  cardiologist doubled my stain because of my history.

I just recently, on my own initiative, returned to my previous statin dosage as I want to see what happens on the Mayo Fisetin treatment protocol I Just started. I experienced some remarkable positive effects immediately and want to check my blood work in Sept.  to see what shows up. Do not wish to have the blood work confounded with any other input from the time of the last bloodwork.

At this time I will respond to your lifespan  goal. From my perspective, it is not lifespan, but healthspan  we are seeking. This is a multifactoral  undertaking and necessitates efforts on several fronts. Your repeated  emphasis on the glucose/insulin ratio  as most the most important value has a lot of weight but is overly  simplistic.  I could never meet the 1.2 value you recommend.

I eat a lot of berries and fruit for their various polyphenol content-lot of sugar. I also have a cup of  homemade yogurt and keifer every day for their probiotic content. The fermentation process in each case converts about 1/3 the lactose to lactic acid but I still have a lot of "milk sugar".

Not discussed so far in these healthspan comments are benefits of hormone modulation therapy- Check out the multple antiaging benefits of DHEA supplementation if needed- see LEF's  "Disease Treatment and Protocol". This book also addresses male and female HRT. Unfortunately, it is somewhat out of date as recent publications on testosterone treatment to prevent dementia, osteoporosis and sarcopenia in seniors are not included.

These are just a few of the factors associated with ageing and means to slow it down. One of these is fish oil and I will comment on this in my comment to BOBm

Peter H. Howe Thats interesting. Did the doctor figure out the reason for your anemia? That is very strange for a man to have anemia. The body does not really have any efficient way of getting rid of iron in a man so it generally increase over a lifetime unless you are a vegan or have a slow bleed like an ulcer.

Fred Cloud Fred, I think it is in the genes. My brother, who is 7 years younger than I am, is also hypogonadic and had a stent inserted. He also supplements with a testosterone gel-- not with a patch delivery as I do.  Stents were not around 26 years ago. 

My suggestion to any mid age male who is anaemic and has high blood cholesterol , that they check their testosterone. Finally, this issue has been around for many years and was addressed by LEF contributors when I first joined. 

Peter H. Howe Genes for being anemic? Is your brother anemic also or just low test?

Fred Cloud Fred do not know will ask. As indicated this was a topic when I first started at LEF. At time I was full fledged beef eater  due to my wife's families occupation.

Peter H. Howe  So interesting. Generally you consume iron, and levels build unless you bleed. Your body tries to sock it away in long term storage as ferritin but that is toxic and causes aging too. Could be some genetic issue but I have never heard of it. Did your doc seemed concerned or checked you for ulcers. Do you take daily childrens aspirin or anything?