Fisetin experimentation one year (reposted as topic for info purposes)
Hello everyone I wanted to make my first post here as I have been doing a fisetin routine for a year now just about and I have results that are not placebo and very profound. I honestly do not know if this is the senylotic effect or some kind of interaction with fisetin in other ways.
To get it out of the way, I will give the fast and short version. I am taking Swanson’s Fisetin. I take around 2g a day for 3 days( now 2.5g). I repeat this for 3 or 4 times with varying intervals (I was trying to find optimal intervals).
My my first regimen was 3 days treatment with a 2 week delay, then a 3 week delay, then a 4 week delay, then a 2 month delay. I am now convinced a 3 week delay is the minimal amount of time you want taking this the way I am, though I will continue with 4 week delay for safety sake and because of my own observations.
So results. Well I feel like this must play on hormone levels in the short term. Immediately after starting a 3 day regimen, usually on day 2 or 3 I feel strong as hell. In particular my legs are tight and super strong. My muscles in general are firmer and overall strength is amazing. My mind is clear, thinking concise anddynamic. I feel more dominant, self confident, and aggressive. Libido is enhanced as well. This all led me to believe that this acts as a testosterone mimic or elevates testosterone in the blood which is why I cycle monthly and then take a few months off every so often.
i can tell you that at the age of 43 this makes me legitimately remember what early 20s feels like. The effects of one 3 day regimen last strongly for 2 weeks and even on for 4 weeks. In particular during week one and two I was amazed at the amount of pure emotion and clarity of the world around me. I could hear and appreciate sounds and colors seemed more vibrant. Mentally I am on overdrive with super memory and crystal clear logical thinking. I remember the first time I took this I was shocked. I was in a cafe just looking at a coke I had bought in a glass amazed at how more real and present it looked. A small thing but it was profound just how the world seemed more alive. It literally felt like going back in time 20 years.
So for long term effects. A stronger posture, better muscle tone, improved gum health, vastly more energy, in fact this has become all the norm after around 8 months of this. Many of the effects I described in the first two weeks following a 3 day regimen do taper off to an extent, but never completely.
As far as side effects there has not been anything thus far. When you are taking the 3 day dose you might get amped up a little jittery but that gives way quickly after the last dosage and it normalizes into a even effect that is positive in nature. I was very concerned about hair loss as I could not believe how impactful this was. But I have noticed no hair loss at all. I cycle it with a 3 or 4 week break to ensure that there is no negative effect on hair or otherwise. With a two week interval I had some scalp itchiness. That was enough to back me off to to four week intervals.
I honestly think that most of what I experienced is not the senylotic effect. It’s way too fast and profound. But I have no ill effects and feel incredible. And overall I have a youthful vigor and look and feel younger. I think a senylotic evaluation, as far as a laymen just observing himself goes ,can only really be done after 2 years or so. However the initial results ( especially gum health) and from what else I can observe are overwhelmingly positive.
I can tell you that this does have an affect and it is profound and noticeable. How much of this is hormone I do not know. But I have other improved health as well, however it’s always tricky to quantify this objectively yourself sometimes.
Good luck on your experiments. Let me know if this has the same effect for you. I just bought Swanson’s with nouvestein. Nothing fancy. Cheap and on amazon.
-
But does that mean that autophagy begins on the 48th hour and does it stop the minute your eat?
-
I honestly don’t think anyone knows. From what I can tell it likely starts earlier and to get some benefit 48 hours fasting is what is required. There really has not been in depth human testing so far. Everything is theoretical and translated from mouse models.
-
Hi David,
Thanks for your posts! I actually found them in a google search and your post led me to give Fisetin a try. I have completed my first 3 day round of Fisetin at 3 grams per day.
A question if I may:
You mentioned that you saw improvements in some areas at around the 6 month mark. Could you share what those were? I am eager to have a roadmap to measure progress again if possible.
About me: 49 yr old male. On TRT since 2018.
Some notes about my experience so far (2 weeks after first dose):
1. I feel like I had a few hairs go from gray to not gray. Not sure if it’s related or I just noticed it.
2. I noticed that I got a bit ...drier...I think this might be an anti-inflammatory effect. Maybe I had a bit of bloat. That seemed to go away quickly and improved a bit more over the last week.
3. Improved energy. My workouts are more intense and more enjoyable. I have more energy left over after I complete the workout than I did before the first round of Fisetin.
4. Muscles seem generally harder. I believe David noted this above but I am also experiencing this.
5. A weird twitch in my right eye. That seemed to last throughout the first week and is going away now. Not sure if it’s related or not.
Thanks again!
Best,
Another David C.
-
DavidCo11 be sure to hydrate a lot. I do usually when taking this. Which means I just drink the amount of water they say we are supposed to anyways
-
-
I just got some 500 mg fisetin so I take 1.5 grams a day with querctin. Any idea how many days on and off.
Thanks,
Bob
-
Well with 1.5 grams I would do 3 days 1.5 plus querctin then pause 2 or 3 weeks and repeat. I honestly don’t think it will be harmful if you wait at least 2 weeks.
personally I found that when taking 2.2 or 3 grams three days in a row that at about week 3 is when I feel like I am normalizing. I then let it go another weeek to allow the body to rest just in case this is affecting hormone levels.
Since there really is no data and that’s a lesser dose. I would try taking it 3 times daily then wait three weeks and repeat. At some point it’s not a bad idea to take two months off then start again. This gives your body time to naturally reset.
-
So you feel that after taking fisetin and querctin for three days, your body need some time to flush out these senescent cells? Do you recall the time protocol used by the Mayo Clinic for the rats?
Thanks,
Bob
-
Well here is my feeling on it. I believe fisetin raises testosterone levels somehow. This is more the reason I am careful than anything else. With the rat experiments they did it two different ways.
one was mega dose and the other was daily. I chose to mega dose just in case the body adapts and builds a tolerance somehow or becomes dependent. I’d have to go back and look at the study again, but it seems with the dose you are taking it’s somewhere between the mega dose and the daily dose.
thats why i was think every two weeks maybe. Since no one knows how this affects humans just yet you have to play it by ear. I’d take the dose 3 times over 3 days then repeat in two weeks. See how you feel with it.
id take fisetin every 3 weeks optimally I just don’t want my hair to fallout from too much Testosterone. And that’s a just in case. I think the first human studies with humans are wrapping up this month so we might have more data here soon.
-
i read somewhere that one of the reasons you don't clear senescent cells is that your immune system that does the work, gets clogged up with them as we age. Let's hope clearing them out helps restore our ability to do apoptosis. Also - we need a strong immune system with this new virus. I'm guessing the people who only have a mild reaction to it have strong immune systems. I believe it was Dylan Thomas that said not to go gentle into that good night.
-
I think it’s a combination of a failing immune system and the prevalence of more senescence. Kind of like a feedback loop where both aggravate each other and a downward spiral starts with both speeding up the demise of the other faster and faster.
Not sure apoptosis will be encouraged or not if there are less SASP and other senescent cells. Not even sure there is good data on why apoptosis does not occur in some senescent cells. Assumedly it’s DNA damage or out of the ordinary circumstances otherwise that cause this to fail.
DNA damage makes sense since it seems the SASP signaling is primarily to attract immune cells to destroy SASP emitting cells and likely a good portion of other cells in the immediate SASP environment. And that would make sense if a somatic cell with a cancerous or apoptosis resistant profile had proliferated it would be best to kill them all off to reduce the chances of a much larger problem down the road.
We really need a way to improve the immune system and the quality and number of stem cells for anything terribly meaningful to occur. What’s interesting about our stem cells is that they are quiescent and protect their DNA, only activating and replicating when certain signal demands are met. I am sure a SASP rich environment causes stem cells to remain quiescent much longer as there seems to be a rather delicate signaling criteria for replication.
In the end all of this signaling us just every cell emitting it’s own proteins routinely and these flip switches in surrounding cells as certain thresholds are met. SASP seems to muddy everything up and cause cells to go senescent as a precaution since their proximity to a SASP emitting cell implicates them as possibly being compromised as well due to recent somatic replication.
-
Just did my second 3 day regimen of fisetin. First time did 1.5 gms, this time 2.5.
felt no effect from either. Hoping it is clearing senescent cells
-
That is so crazy. I definitely get effects. Took first day of three day regimen yesterday and feel the same effects as usual. In any case you really aren’t supposed to feel anything if it’s clearing senescent cells.
it’s very odd you don’t feel any if the effects I do. To me it’s unmistakable.
-
David C do you guys have any blood tests before and then during the treatment?
-
Joe smith No, someone really should. I am more interested (in regards to fisetin) in hormone levels. I am not sure how well bloodtests would show senescence. I guess looking for SASP factors and some of the other signalling that sencecent cells give off.
I feel like they'd almost have to cut people open and take biopsies to really understand to what effect it's working or not. Not to mention the time required to have a noticeable effect is likely years.
You almost have to take it at blind faith and be consistent with it for a number of years. That's why I am doing fisetin. It's cheap, accessible, safe, and has some laboratory results behind it.
I don't doubt that some other compounds might be more effective. But usually it's me looking at the longterm. Can I afford to take this routinely for 5 years or so? If I can does the cost outweigh the possibility of it not working? Am I able to buy this without a doctor prescribing it? And so on...
I think we will get more information on sencesent cell removal in general very soon as there is a lot of human trials underway, some even using fisetin.
-
David C I think he meant before and after blood tests for hormone levels. How often do you check your test levels?
-
-
I read that quercetin is also a good anti viral. Lots of studies done for SARS. Dr. Mercola had a good page on it.
-
Robert Olin yea quercetin is popular but usually in combination with something else. Fisetin was almost as effective as FOX04 DRI by itself which is why I went for it. You can buy it easily.
I imagine all of it works to an extent. But better more tailored treatments are on the way. So for me I am using what works now and is easy to get, not to mention that it’s safe.
when the new stuff comes out I am going to try and be an early adopter.
-
Robert Olin Yes, Quercetin has shown good effects on ebola virus, Zika Virus, and birdflue-SARS. But so far only been tested on animals. Now there is a human study on its way in China. I think it is done in cooperation with Universty of Montreal, where the lead resaecchers are located.
-
-
My wife and I have done two fisetin runs with no noticeable effects. D&Q next.
-
Let me know how it goes. Like I said before, for senescent cell clearance you really have to be patient. It would likely take 6 months or more to have an appreciable effect. Theoretically when you eliminate bad cells like that you are also removing the signalling that interferes with normal tissue maintenance.
I imagine in the absence of SASP it still takes the body a while to regenerate cells and reorganize tissue back to a more healthy state. It's not something you will notice overnight.
-
Hi all,
I would like to circle back on the note about NOT taking antioxidants with the senolytic treatments.
So many questions about this!
Like -
Stopping how long before?
Which ones are the most problematic?
When can I resume?
How/why is this a problem?
What other supplements might be affected the same way?
In general, should we by cycling all our supplements? Like take this group together for a week, then the other group?
Thanks for all your thoughts!
bob
-
Well in general I would cycle everything. Take a break, re-evaluate and continue if everything seems ok. I took a week off my NMN supplementation and am about to start again.
In regards to fisetin I imagine it's not as serious a senylotic as some of the other compounds so I'd be surprised if there were any issues with it. What antioxidants are you referring to and what is the interaction we should be trying to avoid with it?
-
David C Regarding Testosterone boost. I ran across this study showing senolytic treatment reverses age related testosterone decline by killing off sensecent cells in the teste leydig cells.
FOXO4-DRI(senolytics) alleviates age-related testosterone secretion insufficiency by targeting senescent Leydig cells in aged mice.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31959736If this is true, it is huge news as men could start treating their andropause with senolytics rather than testosterone replacement.
-
Fred Cloud I found the full study, the other link was just the abstract.
-
-
Yes I saw this, I commented in another thread about it. This might be true. Ever since taking fisetin the first time I am much more in the zone so to speak . I’d almost call it aggressive, but really it’s more confident. Definitely made women a lot more interesting. I cal also put on muscle fairly fast.
id swear there is something to this. And the effect lasts months after dosing. So I was just thinking I was imagining it a bit. But honestly it’s fairly profound.
