Fisetin experimentation one year (reposted as topic for info purposes)
Hello everyone I wanted to make my first post here as I have been doing a fisetin routine for a year now just about and I have results that are not placebo and very profound. I honestly do not know if this is the senylotic effect or some kind of interaction with fisetin in other ways.
To get it out of the way, I will give the fast and short version. I am taking Swanson’s Fisetin. I take around 2g a day for 3 days( now 2.5g). I repeat this for 3 or 4 times with varying intervals (I was trying to find optimal intervals).
My my first regimen was 3 days treatment with a 2 week delay, then a 3 week delay, then a 4 week delay, then a 2 month delay. I am now convinced a 3 week delay is the minimal amount of time you want taking this the way I am, though I will continue with 4 week delay for safety sake and because of my own observations.
So results. Well I feel like this must play on hormone levels in the short term. Immediately after starting a 3 day regimen, usually on day 2 or 3 I feel strong as hell. In particular my legs are tight and super strong. My muscles in general are firmer and overall strength is amazing. My mind is clear, thinking concise anddynamic. I feel more dominant, self confident, and aggressive. Libido is enhanced as well. This all led me to believe that this acts as a testosterone mimic or elevates testosterone in the blood which is why I cycle monthly and then take a few months off every so often.
i can tell you that at the age of 43 this makes me legitimately remember what early 20s feels like. The effects of one 3 day regimen last strongly for 2 weeks and even on for 4 weeks. In particular during week one and two I was amazed at the amount of pure emotion and clarity of the world around me. I could hear and appreciate sounds and colors seemed more vibrant. Mentally I am on overdrive with super memory and crystal clear logical thinking. I remember the first time I took this I was shocked. I was in a cafe just looking at a coke I had bought in a glass amazed at how more real and present it looked. A small thing but it was profound just how the world seemed more alive. It literally felt like going back in time 20 years.
So for long term effects. A stronger posture, better muscle tone, improved gum health, vastly more energy, in fact this has become all the norm after around 8 months of this. Many of the effects I described in the first two weeks following a 3 day regimen do taper off to an extent, but never completely.
As far as side effects there has not been anything thus far. When you are taking the 3 day dose you might get amped up a little jittery but that gives way quickly after the last dosage and it normalizes into a even effect that is positive in nature. I was very concerned about hair loss as I could not believe how impactful this was. But I have noticed no hair loss at all. I cycle it with a 3 or 4 week break to ensure that there is no negative effect on hair or otherwise. With a two week interval I had some scalp itchiness. That was enough to back me off to to four week intervals.
I honestly think that most of what I experienced is not the senylotic effect. It’s way too fast and profound. But I have no ill effects and feel incredible. And overall I have a youthful vigor and look and feel younger. I think a senylotic evaluation, as far as a laymen just observing himself goes ,can only really be done after 2 years or so. However the initial results ( especially gum health) and from what else I can observe are overwhelmingly positive.
I can tell you that this does have an affect and it is profound and noticeable. How much of this is hormone I do not know. But I have other improved health as well, however it’s always tricky to quantify this objectively yourself sometimes.
Good luck on your experiments. Let me know if this has the same effect for you. I just bought Swanson’s with nouvestein. Nothing fancy. Cheap and on amazon.
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Yea I just took it pretty much in line with how they did the mouse experiments. I upped it to 3g for each dosage. So every month I take 3g three days in a row. With Swansons that is a bottle every day. I am certain a lot of the effect is elevated testosterone levels so I am a bit cautious with the frequency.
Before I started this regimen I was lethargic, easily tired, and had brain fog. Also it seems as you get older you tend to slowly fade out so you are not as present in the world perceptually as you once were. It’s something you may never notice really as it’s a slow effect.
Taking Fisetin turned the lights back on and suddenly I remembered how it was to see the world when I was in my early twenties. The sounds became clear and vibrant and interesting, the colors were amazing in the world. It was a little overwhelming at first. Now up I am kind of used to it but still get a mini effect when I do a new dosage.
My mind is as sharp as it has ever been. My memory is ridiculously good. I feel as if I have never been more intelligent in my whole life. And I can stay up way into the early morning hours.
its a game changer if you have started to feel the ravages if time. Also when I work out I get ripped pretty easy now.
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Joe F Thanks for the info and insight on your prostate and cancer. I am 75 yo., had a high PSA according to my GP. It was 3.50 which I found out later was not that high. My GP recommended a biopsy. I said to myself, I need a 2nd. opinion so I booked an appointment with a high level urologists. He examined me and ordered 2 additional blood test. % free PSA, and free PSA. Both of these were in normal range. Diagnosis, no biopsy need. He said if PSA is over 4.0 then you get additional blood test and then you would do a Biopsy if the results call for it. This is the way I track my prostate health with PSA and follow-up blood test if needed, and then a Biopsy if called for. I agree with you that early detection is CRUCIAL, but no need for Biopsy unless called for. Should mention, I have been on Rapamycin for 4 years so hopefully it is delaying the onset of any cancers.
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Van It looks like you are in a good way prostate cancer wise . Tracking PSA is the only way to determine if a biopsy is needed unless cancer is prevalent in your family. If familial cancer is a known problem a biopsy might be warranted.
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Joe F Wow, you have been through a lot. Gleason 9 is supposed to be a high grade cancer. A little confusing, if you've had it removed, why the high Gleason number? I will get my PSA tested and post the number. I'm pretty sure that I have the common enlarged prostate problem, slow steam, low volume more often, and urgency. I just started taking this, very high review rating, from may help others from Amazon or Costco. I also had a UTI, they gave me a number of antibiotics, found one that worked perfectly. Drinking Cranberry juice is also prescribed and being hydrated if beneficial.
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John Ramos The Gleason score is derived from the biopsy. 14 strategically placed core samples are taken with hollow needle wires. In this way the prostate is "mapped". The sample "gun" goes in through your butt hole. Not as bad as it sounds. The core samples are analyzed and the results are given in "Gleason" score numbers ranging 6 to 10. Above 7 indicates aggressive cancer, depending on who you are listening to.
After my prostatectomy the tissue was sliced and diced and the Gleason score was upgraded from 8 to 9. Darn.
At this point I feel great and very much enjoy life.
Cranberry compounds make it so bacteria can't stick so it gets flushed out with urine. The cells already attached need to be delt with. Take normal amounts of zinc, calcium and selenium as some studies indicate they might foster cancer.
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Joe F John Ramos Van
FWIW, I will share my experience with PSA and biopsies.
Having a family history of prostate cancer, I panicked when, 20 years ago my PSA rose well over 4. A urologist recommended, and I agreed, to a (painful) biopsy. The biopsy found nothing. A couple months later, when my PSA was even higher he recommended, and did another one. The 2nd biopsy also found nothing. With my PSA still rising, I did some frantic research and found a Dr. Fred Lee at Crittenton Hospital in Rochester, Michigan who had pioneered the use of color Doppler ultrasound for diagnosing prostate cancer. A very helpful rep from the Ultrasound equipment company assured me that Dr. Lee was the best, and so I made the trip. The ultrasound examination was non-invasive and painless. I was assured by Dr. Lee that I did not have any prostate cancer, which would have been identified by its blood supply. He also explained that PSA rises after a biopsy!
Some years later, another high reading sent me to urology and another recommendation for a biopsy. I instead made a 2nd trip to Dr. Lee who once again found no cancer.
I still have no signs of cancer.
My experience has been that the biopsies essentially destroyed the functionality of my prostate. If you can find an expert practitioner like Dr. Lee (he died in 2016), it might be an option to consider before undertaking biopsies.
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chuck stanley PSA can also rise (sometimes a lot) from infections, sex and or trauma like riding a bicycle. Glad to hear you are cancer free, so far. The biopsy is the only sure way to know.
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David H I just joined, & responding to a some-what older post. I'm 74, long history with vitamins, cognitives, etc; even had 2 young blood transfusions. Just completed 1st hit-and-run round of Fisetin + quercetin. I will have some misc blood work in a few weeks, possibly after 2nd round to monitor. QUESTIONS: Have you David, or others, noticed any detox-type reactions? Could be from skin rashes, to aches, PSA, LDL, CRP, etc., Thanks.
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Van My 2nd post, after joining today; just putting-in my 2 cents. Saw a radiologist for several years, whom only worked with breast & prostate cancer patients (both very similar.) He -- and other MDs, researchers -- agree: PSA is NEITHER cancer, nor prostate specific. He did not even ask his male patients for PSA numbers. Second point: why ever do a biopsy? IMO -- and also more with science backgrounds than I -- think biopsies spread cancer. And especially re prostate, a Gleason score merely tells you the severity, not re any method to treat, nor agent, etc.
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chuck stanley Again, just joined today. For several years I traveled from FL to see a radiologist in NYC whom also used an ultrasound (color Doppler) that took hundreds of photos of prostate area looking for blood vascularizations that feed tumors. That MD was also opposed to biopsy and thought PSA useless re prostate. For the record, it seems that the healthiest 20-something has maybe 20,000 cancer cells. At that age most of us have immune system to contain the cancers, but that ability changes decades later. Technically, nobody is ever cancer-free, and just one of the mis-directions of allopathic medicine.
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Michael_B I have not noticed anything after I have taken senolytics. At various times I have taken Fisetin alone, Dasatinib and Quercetin, and Dasatanib+Fisetin+Quercetin.
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Michael_B Thanks for post. I personally do not like consulting a Radiologist for breast or prostate cancer advise. He is member of team, but does not usually treat patients day in and day out or diagnosising patients without a referral from a Urologist, etc. My Urologist recommends a PSA, and PSA free, along with Free % if over score over 4. While in the past a bioposy would possibly be ordered, the new diagnostic tool is MRI/PET scans with a specific marker for prostate cancer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN3N1_s5bNM also Many are recommending a MRI after a high PSA, and then they can target a specific part of the prostate instead of whole prostate biopsy. Local will give a gleason score for that specific area. One could also do a PET scan to confirm before a biopsy, but not approved by FDA at this time. Then a marker can be used to scan the prostate to detect if the cancer has moved beyond the prostate for treatment. This is a game changer in treatment. In this video, the Dr. says, no reliable data to support not take a biopsy if necessary. MRI for diagnostic purposes is more accurate than a random biopsy, but a localized biopsy would be needed if MRI shows cancer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnHHVl7e7SA This is a very exciting time for prostate diagnosis and treatment. Changing monthly after nothing for years. Many videos on Utube on new diagnosing techniques and treatments for prostate cancer.
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Van Thanks for response, but as in most things, opinions differ. "No reliable data to support not take a biopsy," is nonsense. Plenty of evidence that biopsies tend to spread cancers. In some cancers, one might weigh the risks, & consider the biopsy still provides useful info. In most cases, esp prostate, I disagree. Remember, Gleason does not at all assist in how to treat.
Anyone with prostate issues may want to look at Dr Sperling's site & approach. He is one of few MDs that offer FLA (focal laser ablation) re prostate. Most allopathic approaches IMO have high risks of various degrees, whether drugs, prostate removal, or HiFU, I think still only done outside U.S.
https://sperlingprostatecenter.com/
I spoke with Sperling maybe 5-7 years ago in NYC (he is now in FL,) and spoke with patients whom just had his treatment, & were already walking around the block. I've always thought if I ever needed it, his approach may be helpful.
However, while almost all men (& all women) will get prostate/breast cancer, if they live long enough, almost all will die with the cancer, NOT because of it.
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Michael_B I think "biopsies spread cancer" is an old wives tale, sometimes when doing a biopsy(I'm having one tomorrow) this also inject into a tumor they are biopsing which will probably happen tomorrow. The important blood test is for AFP, Alpha Fetal protein. Have you got that test and what is your number? I guess you've been diagnosed with cancer?
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John Ramos Thanks for reply, but obviously our view of PSA, biopsy, etc., differ; no point in further discussion. Hopefully the science will be better defined, but likely not for quite some time. Regards,
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Joe F Hi, Joe -- I sent a private note, but decided to post as well, in case others have feedback, or could use the info. Below is from e-mails, about March, 2018, so not sure if all the links still work.
THC dosage is way too low. The treatment is 60 grams in 90 days, not 2 grams, as you can read in our detailed cannabis oil dosage guide.
https://www.leafly.com/news/health/dont-laugh-rectal-suppositories-future-medicinal-cannabis
Immediately after the diagnosis, Novák began using 1-gram suppositories, each containing one-tenth of a gram of cannabis extract with more than 70 percent THC and around 5 percent CBD. “I did not feel any high, which was a big difference from oral consumption, when 0.1 gram would get me couch-locked for half a day,” he said.
“I just felt pretty relaxed and slept much better. And the best thing was, when I went to the hospital after three months, there was no need for chemotherapy or any other treatment. Much to my doctor’s surprise, my PSA was back to zero.”
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For those who think that since suppositories don't make you high it must not absorb well, here is the answer for you:
The Cannabis is quickly absorbed into the anal canal walls; if you deposit it just inside the first sphincter there is little to no high ... but if it is a sleep supp, it will put you to sleep in minutes. By not depositing it too high, it goes to the liver via the portal vein instead of making the first pass through the liver - (which metabolizes the THC and makes you high). If you push it in higher, you will get higher because it gets to the liver via a different vein and is metabolized on the first pass. If you are using capsules to form the suppositories, be sure and remove the suppository from the capsule as it will not melt.---------------------
https://www.backdoormedicine.org/resources
https://merryjane.com/culture/what-you-need-to-know-about-using-cannabis-suppositories
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https://www.leafly.com/news/health/dont-laugh-rectal-suppositories-future-medicinal-cannabis
. 3000 years ago the Egyptians used cannabis suppositories to mitigate the discomfort of hemorrhoids.
Jordan Tishler MD • 2 years ago
So, interestingly, I was a big proponent of rectal suppositories for my patients with cancer. However, recent and some older studies show that absorption of Cannabinoids via the rectal mucosa is nearly nil. My patients, on the other hand, are doing well with the suppositories. So, I'm not sure what to make of this. Guess we need more studies.
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https://extractcrafter.com/2017/05/17/the-cannabis-oil-suppository-debate-personal-testing-results/
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To be honest I don't take it with a meal, I usually take it around 2 or 3 hours after just as a matter of habbit. I eat normally as well, I don't go out of my way much more than I do when taking Tylenol or something of the like. I do the 3 day treatment once a month usually.
I have tried various intervals. What I found was that 2 weeks seems to be too fast, and at 3 weeks you can repeat. But I choose to do it every month and at some points I do take a 3 month break sort as a reset just for safety's sake. But in short every month is more than sufficient.
The thing is Fisetin obviously has some other effects that are not purely senylotic. The very first time I took Fisetin like this I remember being very fatigued the next day in a good way. Also I had white stool, which I have never had since. Another effect is the firming up of muscles. And the first place I noticed strength and activity was in the thighs.
The only side effects might be some headaches but I chalk that up to dehydration. Drinking a lot of water with it makes it not a thing.
As far as when you should feel effects. It's fairly fast, but it was after the 2nd day of the very first 3 day supplement that I noticed how much strength my legs had and how my perceptions, mood, and presence were affected. By day three I was walking around the city marveling at how different the world looked.
I honestly would be interested to hear if this has the same effect for others. But as a rule I repeat the entire treatment every month. Which is the 3 day routine.
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David C You don't mention quercetin which is often recommended for senolytic treatments - do you take it or just the fisetin? and what is your dosage per Kg of weight?
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Paul Beauchemin Well, I bought some Quercetin but as I understand it its less effective than Fisetin and I don't have access to Dastanib. Fisetin alone was proven to be a fairly potent senylotic and at my age I was looking for something easy that will remove a good part of senescent cells..theoretically.
My feeling is that within 5 years time we will have some new methods from people like Osin and other companies. So if I can do a little something now until the more tailored interventions come out I am fine with it.
I weight 110kg so 3g for that weight. To be honest I sort of felt like I'd prefer go with a smaller dosage over multiple days rather than say a super dose of 5g. And I did get an effect with the dosage I am using. I do not have the resources to test pre and post SASP or senescent cell counts. So I have to rely on the lab results with rats like the rest of us for the time being.
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I forgot to add, when I first started Fisetin I was aiming at hitting the Senylotic threshold. So I took it like this:
3 days treatment - wait two weeks - 3 day treatment - wait 3 weeks - 3 day treatment - wait 4 weeks - 3 day treatment -wait 2 months
And I had every intention of maybe doing this every 3 months just to keep the senescent cell clearing occurring regularly. However I found the other benefits of Fisetin to be too enticing to wait 3 months between treatments. So now I am at once a month.
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David C Do you take a smaller amount of fisetin every day, also?
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David C I've only done one course of a 3 day fisiten treatment. However, what stood out for me was short term relief of mild to moderate chronic pain over that three day period. Perhaps you don't have any pain, but if so, did you notice this effect?
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Dorian Gray it would not surprise me as it’s a anti inflammatory in some ways.
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No because as I understood there were two ways to take it: Moderate amounts every day or periodic high doses. As far as the other benefits of Fisetin I can feel the effects for 3 weeks acutely, and during the 4th week there is waning down of the effects. I expect this is hormonal so I do like to let my system normalize before taking another treatment.
As I have said my baseline health has risen significantly after starting this regimen, so it clearly has had a lasting effect as well. But I definitely get a jolt every time I do the treatment. I am more or less careful because I'd rather not cause premature male pattern baldness or something.
As far as I can tell at around week 4 my body is normalizing fully from the previous dosage. So if I took even more Fistein daily it would alter that balance.
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You mention buying "Swanson’s with nouvestein" (it's actually Fisetin with Novusetin sold by Doctor's Best). I was wondering just what Novusetin is, so I did an Internet search. Turns out, Novusetin is just a commercial name for fisetin and nothing special.
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JGC
Just FYI, Dr’s Best brand and the one from Swanson are different. Swansons is better, and lower cost.
In my tests to check for how products dissolve in various mediums, comparing Dr Best, Swanson brand and pure powder), I found Dr Best to contain a Lot of non dissolving fillers.
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