Fisetin to Clear Senescent Cells

Following studies with mice that showed significant senolytic clearance of senescent cells following large doses of the readily available flavenoid supplement Fisetin,  my wife and I (ages 79 and 84) decided to try it.  We have just completed two sets of massive Fisetin doses.

We had Life Extension blood-work done in October before the start, and we will have more again next week to observe any changes.  The first set of Fisetin doses was on October 22-25 with 800 mg/day for three days followed by 600 mg on the fourth day, for a total of 4 g.  I didn't notice much in the way of effects.  Perhaps some reduction of small aches and pains and some increase in energy and mental acuity.

For the second set of doses done November 22-26, since we experienced no negative side effects in the first set we decided to increase the dosage a bit and to add 10 mg of BioPerine, a supplement that is reputed to magnify the effects and potency of flavenoids.  For five days starting on Thanksgiving we took 500 mg of Fisetin and 10 mg of BioPerine twice per day, for a total of 5 g of Fisetin.

This time. I did experience one negative side effect.  A few months ago, about 2 AM in the morning I awoke from a deep sleep and experienced a severe episode of vertigo.   I turned over in bed, and the the whole room seemed to tilt.  Suddenly, I didn't know which way was up.  I staggered to the bathroom and vomited.  The symptoms tapered off and disappeared in a few days, but it was a very distributing experience.

On the 2nd day of our 2nd Fisetin series, I experience a recurrence of that vertigo in the middle of the night, not as bad as my initial experience but still rather disturbing.  I tolerated this mild vertigo and continued the treatment.  My wife had no similar symptoms, and after my last dose I experienced no further vertigo symptoms.

On the positive side, following the second set of dosages I did feel very well, and very sharp and alert.  This past weekend I ran my Shetland Sheepdog Taliesin in an AKC Canine Agility Trial in Mt. Vernon, WA, and we did very well, qualifying in 7 runs out of 15 and getting various colored placement ribbons.  I was feeling quite sharp, and I even invented a new dog-handling technique that fixed an ongoing problem we were having.

Next week we will do the blood-work again, and I'll report any changes.

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  • New Fisetin Senolytic Session

         It has been about 30 weeks since our last senolytic sessions, which were done last January.  This morning my wife and I each took 10 mg of BioPerine, followed in 90 minutes by 2.00 grams of 98% pure Fisetin powder "dissolved" in olive oil.  I put "dissolved" in quotes because I am not able to distinguish fully dissolved Fisetin from undissolved Fisetin in a colloidial suspension in the olive oil.

         I put room-temperature olive oil in a 1 oz shot glass, then added 2 grams of yellow Fisetin powder, as measured on a digital scale with a precision of 0.01 grams.  I stirred until I had a smooth liquid that looked a bit like French's mustard.  It did not become clear, which may be an indication that lots of undissolved Fisetin granules were still suspended in the oil.  The taste was acceptable, but not great.  I noticed a slight burning sensation in my throat as I was swallowing the liquid.  We used pieces of bread to soak up the mixture remaining in the glass, to make sure that we got it all.

      That was three hours ago, and so far we have experienced no observable effects.  We will repeat tomorrow, and then I plan to warm the olive oil in the microwave a bit before adding the Fisetin powder, to see if it dissolves better.

    Like 3
    • JGC 

       

      Thank you for your report. How do you feel now?

       

       It has now been two weeks since I had my fisetin experiment. In two weeks time I will have two more  days of fisetin treatment. 

       

      So far I have a clear reduction in joint pain. I hurt my AC joint quite some time ago ( a trauma, 11 Months ago, to the joint ).  

       

      I have not been able to swim without pain since that accident. After the fisetin treatment two weeks ago I can swim short distances without pain. Placebo or natural healing or senolytic effect?  My guess is that it is an effect related to the fisetin. 

      Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson 

           This morning we did our 3rd BioPerine (10 mg) + Fisetin-in-olive-oil (2 g) session.  I feel quite alert and well and have been working to good effect on a book rewrite.  Even though my wife and I have each had a total of 6,000 mg of Fisetin in three days, I haven't noticed much in the way of side effects.  The first night I did have a very vivid dream involving a long-dead female friend, and I have experienced a small amount of vertigo when I turn over in bed at night, but nothing else of note.  No joint pains, but then I haven't had many of those lately.

           My plan is to wait a week, do one more session with BioPerine + Dasatinib + Quercetin + Fisetin, and then wait another 6 months before any more senolytics.

      Like
    • JGC 

      For your information and also to adress the issue of bioavailability I want to mention that, in their human study on idiopatic lungfibrosis, the El Mayo group used a Quercetinproduct from Thorne.

       

      ”Q: 250 mg capsules × 5/day quercetin phytosome Thorne Research Sophora japonica concentrate [leaf]/”.

       

      They wrote that under 2.2.2 in the published paper.

      https://www.ebiomedicine.com/article/S2352-3964(18)30629-7/pdf

       

      as far as I have been ableto find out it should be this product since this is the only quercetin phytosome Thorne sells.

      https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/quercetin-phytosome

      Like
    • JGC 

      Four weeks ago I did my first experiment with a fisetin combination. For two days I did 20 mg/kg Fisetin.

       

      Today I did a 30 mg/kg fisetin combination. (Using Dr’s best brand). And here I share what else I did today and my thoughts about my approach. The combination and its sequence is described below.

      1. Piperine + piperlongumine 2.  fisetin in avocado oil 3. senolytic activator + strong black tea,

       

      At 5,30 AM today I made a piper longum extract with 2 gr crushed piper longum fruits.  I crushed the pepper and then I soaked the crushed piper longum for 45 minutes in 2 cl 40% award winning super 17 premium organic vodka with the brand name ”Purity”.  I drank the extract at 0615 AM, after a 45 minutes of soaking. (An unusual start of the day). I will buy stronger alcohol for future extractations.  

       

      https://purityvodka.com/pages/purity-super-17-premium-organic-vodka

       

      At 0645 – around 30 minutes after that I had the Piperine + piper longum extract I mixed 2400 mg of fisetin with avocado oil. That’s slightly above 30mg/kg. My weight is 78 kg.  Before I drank the fisetin I had the fisetin and the avocado oil rest in a glass for 30 minutes. I stirred it on a few occasions.

       

      After two hours (at 0845 AM) I had a double dose of senolytic activator (4 capsules) + strong black tea.

       

      During the day I had a few short episodes of stinging headache on the left side of the top of my head. Headache gone after a few seconds. I did not eat any food until 2 PM. Before 2 PM I had only the strong black tea made of black tea powder. And also after that I had some homemade bulletproof coffee made of coconut oil and some C8 oil.  At 2 PM I had my first meal of the day and my daily dose of curcumin 400 mg BSM 95.

       

      Reflections:

      Yes, black tea contains very little theaflavins but I thought I should give the senolytic activator some extra assistance in the senolytic cocktail. I drank the black tea shortly after I had taken the senolytic activator. Senolytic activator has a fair amount theaflavins in its formula. But my reasoning behind adding strong black tea to the senolytic activator is that extracts (like the one in SA) sometimes lack some of vital components that can be found in the real food or drink. For instance, it seems to be difficult to get clear and positive results on health from ingesting EGCG extract alone. But studies of people that drink large amounts of real green tea show that green tea seems rather beneficial for human health. I also see something similar when it comes to lycopene. The experiments with lycopene does not seem to be as successful as the results from studying the health of humans that eat “cooked real tomatos” like results from people eating large amount of tomato sauce etc. This is the thinking behind my attempt to eat or to drink the real thing together with extracts. And that’s also why I made myself some really strong black tea today which I drank when I had taken the senolytic activator.

      Below is a link about theaflavin as a BCL-2 inhibitor and BCL-XL inhibitor. A PDf file.

      http://www.dermaceutical.com.mx/oncoxin_estudios/ONCOXIN_8118.pdf

       

      I add a link to inform how to extract piperine and piperlongumine from piper longum fruits. Kindly look below at Fig 1 and table 2.

      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6234772_Inhibitory_Effect_of_Ethanol_Extract_of_Piper_longum_L_on_Rabbit_Platelet_Aggregation_through_Antagonizing_Thromboxane_A2_Receptor

       

      And I also quote from the link below ”Piperlongumines, PL, appears to be very safe, and its maximum tolerated oral dose in mice is >1 g/kg, while the effective therapeutic doses for cancer can be as low as 2.4 mg/kg by oral dosing." that indicates that 2,4/12,3=0,195 mg/kg is the humna dose to reach to acheive a possibly therapeutic dose in humans.  

       

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6087492/

       

      its also looks like it is possible to reach therapeutic levels of piperlongumine with a made home extract that is easy to make.  Made from crushed piper longums fruits soaked in ethanol.

       

      Since the piper longum extract contains a large amount of piperine as well as piperlongumine and PL works in more than one way, whereof one way is ROS dependent, it made me think that it is possible to get more than the piperine effect from the piper longum extract. But then it might be crucial to take the piperlongumine before the fisetin. This since fisetin can act as an antioxidant and I don’t want this effect to disturb the effect of the piperlongumine. One effect to avoid is that piperlongumine can be neutralized by antioxidants like (NAC) N acetyl cysteine.

       

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4253430/

      “Piperlongumine selectively kills cancer cells and increases cisplatin antitumor activity in head and neck cancer. Piperlongumine killed HNC cells regardless of p53 mutational status but spared normal cells. It increased ROS accumulation in HNC cells, an effect that can be blocked by the antioxidant N-acetyl-L-cysteine. Piperlongumine induced selective cell death in HNC cells by targeting the stress response to ROS, leading to the induction of death pathways involving JNK and PARP.”

      “Co-exposure to PL and the antioxidant NAC or the PARP inhibitor 4-ANI protected cancer cells from apoptosis.”

       

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5191878/#!po=53.0303

      It will be interesting to see what role (if any) piperlongumine may have in future senolytic therapy. Especially it maybe it can act in synergy with ABT-263(=navitoclax) so the serious side effects from navitclax  is reduced to an acceptable level (by reducing the dose of navitoclax that is needed). I quote:

      "Another potential use of PL and its derivatives is in combination with ABT-263, or other inhibitors of Bcl-2 family proteins, for a synergistic senolytic effect. Although ABT-263 is a highly specific senolytic agent, it causes transient thrombocytopenia and neutropenia in patients this results from its inhibitory effect on Bcl-xL, which is important for platelet survival. We showed that PL had a strong synergistic effect on the senolytic activity of ABT-263 in vitro, potentially reducing the dose of ABT-263 needed to effectively deplete SCs. We expect this therapeutic approach would significantly reduce ABT-263-induced thrombocytopenia, making senolytic treatment with ABT-263 safer.”

       

      This is my thinking about todays approach. Yes, there are crude assumptions in my approach. But they are assumptions that, hopefully, are based on the results from qualified researchers. I am especially happy for feedback about piperlongumine and the possible role it might have in senolytic therapy.

       

      Tomorrow I do my next round of Fisetin.

      Like 2
      • BobM
      • BobM
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson 

      very creative indeed Staffan!

      And well thought out!

      Did you notice any changes in basic things like blood pressure, heart rate or blood sugars? 

      Like 1
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson 

      Question: When you "dissolved" the Dr's Best Fisetin in avocado oil, did it actually dissolve (so that the liquid became clear) or did you just have a colloidal suspension of the fine powder?  My experience using olive oil was that I probably got the latter. 

      Like
    • JGC 

      I can show you who it looked like. Your question made me curious so today I used two oils. Olive oil and avocado oil.

       

      In the picture the avocado oil is to the right and olive oil is to the left. Not much difference. The mouthfeel was very much the same. And not any of them became a clear fluid. I used my regular kitchenoils and they are unflitered. But that goes for both of them. The avocadooil to the right has a tiny bit darker color. 

       

      Today I had 30 mg/kg fisetin and without any piperine/black pepper/piper longum. The larger dose of 30 mg/kg and yesterdays headaches made me cautious. The experience I have today is milder. I have not experienced any headaches today. But the day is not over yet. Compared today with my experiment 4 weeks ago when I only had 20 mg/kg but then with piperine/piperlongum, then I must say that todays session is much milder.

       

      At this point my very own and subjective experience  is that fisetin should be a part of a combination with piperine + some other senolytic substance. 

      Like 3
  • Thank you for documenting and sharing your data  

    Like
  • Unpleasant Side-Effects from a D+Q+F+P Session

    Yesterday morning, my wife, daughter, and I did D+Q-based senolytic sessions.  I took 10 mg of Bioperine, followed in 2 hours by 200 mg of Dasatinib, 2,400 mg of Quercetin and 1,700 mg of Fisetin.  About 3 hours later I experienced a bout of mild diarrhea and a mild headache, but these passed and everything seemed fine.

         In the late afternoon we all went to a Shakespeare-in-the-park performance of The Winter's Tale.  Later that evening my daughter and I went to the cast party, at which I had three beers (she was driving).  I went to bed about 10:30 PM feeling fine.

        About 2:30 AM I awoke with intense abdominal cramps.  I couldn't sleep for the rest of the night, so I got up and did computer things.  At one point I became nauseated and vomited  a bit of yellow fluid.  The cramps were very intense and persisted until about 9 AM the next morning.  Later, I took a long nap, and now I feel quite well and even a bit energetic.

         I guess the moral here is,  don't follow a senolytic session with beers.  Live and learn.

    Like 3
      • BobM
      • BobM
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      JGC 

      Thank you for sharing! A few questions-

      So your wife and daughter had no such signs?

      Did they take the same dosing per body weight?

      How long ago was the previous dosing?

      Was it the same?

      thanks!

      Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      BobM 

      My wife and I have close to the sam body weight and  had done three sessions of Bioperine (10 mg/day) and Fisetin (2,000 mg/day in olive oil) about August 15-17, and my daughter had done three sessions of Bioperine (10 mg/day and Fisetin (1500 mg/dy ) last week.  This was our last session and the only one with D+Q.  Before that, all of us had done similar senolytic sessions around the first of the year.  We had intended a 6 month spacing, but we were a bit late.

      Neither my wife nor daughter experienced my symptoms from the D+Q+F+P, but my daughter reported muscular aches resembling the flu.

      Like
    • JGC 

       Thank you for sharing. I speculate that dasatinib + alcohol can put to much stress on the liver. but a recommendation to avoid alcohol when doing senolytic treatments seems like good advice. 

      Like
  •  98% pure Fisetin powder is available on Ebay in 10g ($22) or 25g ($49) quantities.  The listing provides additional information, and suggests an EZ way to take it by just stirring the fisetin into a standard 1 oz. shot glass of warm water to form a milky yellow suspension, and then quickly gulping it down before the suspension has a chance to settle.  You could say it has a 'chalky' taste, but it is basically tasteless. I've taken 500mg 'shots' this way.  It's possible more than 500mg could be taken this way in a single shot, but I limit myself to 500mg.  This is a very easy way to take it.

      I personally do not like capsules (they seem to 'float' in my esophagus a while), but out of curiosity I made a few capsules containing approx. 500mg of the pure yellow powder.  Using a size "00" empty capsule (empty wt.  110mg), I packed the big part of the capsule by pressing it down into the powder a few times until it wouldn't take any more, and then I put the smaller 'cap' part  back on.  The filled capsule weighed 610mg.   Subtracting the 110mg wt. of the empty capsule, the content wt. was right around 500mg.

      If doing this, keep in mind that the fisetin will dye fabrics a bright yellow, so avoid getting it on your clothing and wash your hands afterwards.

    Like
  • There's no point in taking Fisetin with water.  Mix it with oil, or a fatty meal.

    Like 1
  • I've been mixing 2g of fisetin with 2tbs of MCT oil and 2sbs of ghee. Blended it quickly with a double espresso. This is my third day and I've had no negative symptoms. I plan to do two more days and then get blood work done in a month.

    Like
  • I've been lurking on this post and just signed up so that I could comment on the use of EGCG/Green Tea. My interest has been in the prevention of Alzheimer's and other dementias and depression. For those that do not know, EGCG is a powerful anti inflammatory that easily crosses the BBB. It acts on the same cytokines that present in the inflammatory process of brain issues mentioned above, notably TNFa, IL-6, and IL-1. So far it all seems to be of theoretical benefit.

    My reasons for interest in this subject is that I have someone in my life with APOE4-4 and a long history of bipolar2, and intense depression. In my studies over a number of years I have come to accept that depression is the result of brain inflammation, which is becoming more widely accepted.

    The practical application of this theory was tested one cold winter at about 3 am when the person in question decided to just walk away from life, not knowing where to go .. just trying to escape the depressive episode they were stuck in. I intervened about half a block away and returned them to the house with fair amount of resistance.

    Maybe it sounds stupid but I had been studying the effects of EGCG on brain inflammation so I went to an all night grocery and bought up a bunch of green tea extract. It literally made a night and day difference in this person the same day.

    Since then we have settled on 700 mg of decaf Green Tea extract from LEF 3 times a day. It's important to spread out the dose because EGCG has a short half life of about 5-6 hours. This event was years ago, BTW. My point? EGCG DOES work on an acute level in high doses. You do not need to theorize it's effects.

    There is some speculation that EGCG can be tough on livers. We have not found that to be the case and early we did get liver enzymes tested a few times.

    In your use with asynolitic treatment it's anti inflammatory effects alone might minimize the stress of the treatment and would likely improve the treatment IMO.

    BTW, here's a link discussing the properties of green tea and EGCG in particular. It is much more than just an anti inflammatory but I cannot directly speak the many other benefits of it.

    https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/tnsci.2013.4.issue-4/s13380-013-0137-y/s13380-013-0137-y.pdf

    I will likely be trying out my own synolic testing with Q and F, and it will always include EGCG.

    For those affected by APOE4 I do have a considerable amount of info to share which I am sure would be useful. When I get time I may search out any APOE4 posting on this site and contribute there. For now I am following this post and if this site allows it you could send me a message and I can share what I do know. I won't be polluting this fine post with that subject matter.

    Like 5
    • John Whitling 

       

      Thank you for your report. Based on your experience 3*700 mg is needed to get benefits. That is a useful information. I think insufficient dosing (or wrong dosing) is that factor that make quite a few products fail to help people. Nowadays I use green tea max. it is supposed to be more bioavailable and to remain longer in the body.

       

      https://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/item02305/Green-T-Max

       

      After reading quite a few scientific reports I have found out that we might have to drink at least 1 – 1.5 liter of green tea to be sure to get its preventive and disease delaying effect (at least when it comes to the onset of many cancers).

       

      When it comes to EGCG and dementia and other diseases of the brain there are interesting reports from japan when EGCG is used together with ferulic acid. Promising results on dementia.

       

      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/03/190306133414.htm

       

      we have a section on this forum that is dedicated to Green tea extracts.

       

      https://forum.age-reversal.net/t/m2cwax/green-tea-and-green-tea-extracts

       

      If you like to share more information from your experience and knowledge of EGCG the above mentions forum might be a good place for future posts. Thank you for your information about the dose that is needed to achieve benefits in a AD affected brain

      Like 2
      • John W
      • John_Whitling
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson Thank you for the lead on ferulic acid. I will look into that. Also the forum links are quite helpful as well. Given it's effect on aging I am a little surprised that you do not have an APOE forum. I couldn't find one anyway and the site doesn't have a search tool that I could find. APOE status effects cardio as well as neuro health .. it creates advanced aging in it's APOE4 status and it changes the way that cells create and process energy. APOE2 actually extends life.

      Just to be clear the dosing of 3x700 mg EGCG is just what works in our instance, and it's not just about AD, it's really about any chronic brain inflammation. Brain inflammation is common in head traumas, bacterial infections, etc. I believe that it is the the primary cause of the spike in medical workers suicides, though that is only speculation on my part. More and more, research shows that real physical depression is also due to brain inflammation as well.

      When you consider how often medical workers are around infections and bacteria is reasonable to theorize that they could be picking up the same kinds of things their patients often have.

      One other thing .. we found Green Tea Max to be pretty useless, perhaps because of dose, but it seems that more likely that it's missing some critical poly phenol or something. Within a few days it was evident that it didn't measure up so we bailed on it then. I have a few bottles sitting around.

      In a similar vein LEF makes a product called Cytokine Suppress. We tried that for bed time hours but the performance was the same and the half life seemed equivalent. I was hoping for a longer half life but no luck. It's much pricier than than Mega Green Tea Extract.

      Thanks again!

      Like 1
    • John Whitling 

      Thank you for your respons. When it comes to brain inflammation. I remember being at a stroke conference some 10 years ago. At that time they had brain inflammation after stroke as one of the subjects. (Depression is common after stroke). And one of the doctors proposed that brain inflammation also should be targeted in other forms of depression than just poststroke depressions.  I have not really followed up on that lead. But it is always great to remember persons who are decades ahead of the mainstream folks. "I hope we have quite a few in this forum".

      And Systemic inflammation as well as brain protection are two of my targets when it comes to anti aging. (Targeted with Omega 3, curcumin, Senolytic treatments and more).

       

      It is interesting to hear about your experience of green tea max. Liposomes have a much greater availability then standard green tea. But it might not be metabolized in ways that makes it equivalent to regular green tea. Sometimes it is the metabolites of a substance that are responsible for the major effects that we can get from a substance.  

       

      BTW, when it comes to Ferulic acid and EGCG they used quite small doses. Good luck with your research.

      Like
      • Larry
      • Larry.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      John Whitling Maybe you should try a Senolytic on your friend. Dasatinib and Quercitin are cheap and with the latest study shown to be safe in humans. Look at this study: 

      Scientists at the University of Texas have implicated a type of cellular stress for the first time as a player in Alzheimer's disease. And their discovery could lead to treatments for more than 20 human brain diseases including Alzheimer's and traumatic brain injury. One author of the study went as far as to say the treatment that researchers used on mice to rid them of the stressed cells actually stopped Alzheimer's disease "in its tracks."

      After three months of treatment, UT Health said their findings were “exciting.” Orr said in a statement that the Alzheimer’s mice were 20 months old and had advanced brain disease when researchers started the therapy. “After clearing the senescent cells, we saw improvements in brain structure and function. This was observed on brain MRI studies (magnetic resonance imaging) and postmortem histology studies of cell structure. The treatment seems to have stopped the disease in its tracks,” she said.

      Senolytic drugs only target and only kill senescent cells. They are cleared quickly by the body, and researchers saw no side effects.

      Mice were treated with a drug combination including Dasatinib every other week. "So in the three months of treatment, they only received the drug six times," Orr said. "The drug goes in, does its job and is cleared. Senescent cells come back with time, but we expect that it would be possible to take the drug again and be cleared out again. That's a huge benefit -- it wouldn't be a drug that people would have to take every day."

      Musi said he anticipates many further studies to understand the process using senolytic drugs. “Because these drugs are approved for other uses in humans, we think a logical next step would be to start pilot studies in people,” he said.

       

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/robinseatonjefferson/2018/09/24/senolytic-therapies-seem-to-stop-alzheimers-disease-in-its-tracks/#1a871c8c1c1b

      Like
      • Larry
      • Larry.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view
      Like
      • John W
      • John_Whitling
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Larry That is my plan. That's why I've been lurking on this post for a few months. As for D being cheap and available, I am clueless about that. I saw the write up where you could get D without a prescription but only in FL and only to FL residents. Before my readings here on this post I was not aware that it was high acute dosing.

       

      Where can I get D. I am in Ohio, BTW, if it matters. I understand that the dose is small in comparison to Q .. maybe a 10 to 1 ratio.

      Like
      • Larry
      • Larry.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      John Whitling John Whitling I got mine here: https://www.dropshipmd.com/

      I had quick and impressive results so I am confidant it is real. I also used them for Rapamycin. Use Western Union.

      Like
      • John W
      • John_Whitling
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Larry Thanks!

      Like
      • John W
      • John_Whitling
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Larry FYI, they say that cannot ship generic dasatinib to the USA. They mentioned sprycel ( a generic version) but said they were out of stock on that too.

      Like
      • Larry
      • Larry.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      John Whitling They must have got pushback from the USA. You can try this Doctor. He started a new practice called Qalytude. I'm not sure if he is writing prescriptions now but he says he will in the future. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRhOYL_n9lk

      Like
  • Hello, again.  I take 500mg daily of pure theannine in capsule form., it is an important derivative of green tea.  It has transformed the major stresses out of my life.  I've taken it almost daily for 4 and a half years to help deal w a 4 1/2 year old  child. It was recommended by my naturopathic physician.  I know quite a few others who successfully use it also.  Thankyou 

    Like 1
  • I have been looking for a dasatinib mimic. In other words a Bcr-Abl tyrosine kinase inhibitor. If we can find this kind  of substance then this substance could potentiate the combinations that we already experiment with. (fisetin, curcumin, quercetin and others) There are quite a few natural BCL-2 and BCL-XL inhibitors. Since dasatinib is a potential companion to fisetin I post this here.

     

    Dasatinib is a BCR-ABL tyrosine kinase inhibitor and has, as far as I have seen, few similar natural substances. Until recently I have not found any interesting candidates that mimics dasatinib. What I have found out now is that chlorogenic acid might be a theoretical candidate. And I like to share this theory with the rest of you and those that are curious about finding a potential partner to fisetin + quercetin.

     

     https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8482641_Chlorogenic_acid-inhibits_Bcr-Abl_tyrosine_kinase_and_triggers_p38_mitogen-activated_protein_kinase-dependent_apoptosis_in_chronic_myelogenous_leukemic_cells

     

    This indicates that chlorogenic acid has potential for being a dasatinib mimic. It is a long shot, but this is a far I have come. Future studies are of course needed but I have not found any other than the above mentioned study. The question is if we will see increased senolytic activity when Chlorogenic acid is combined with fisetin or quercetin or both? Or if it is combined with  curcumin or theaflavins?

     

    Since science (most likely) not will go in this direction it is up to us to do self-experiments. There are of course very many questions. How much chlorogenic acid is needed to reach therapeutic levels in plasma? Is it even possible to reach therapeutic levels? What do you think? 

     

    And does anybody here know of other Bcr-Abl tyrosine kinase inhibitors that are widely distributed substances.  

     

    And also, what relevance does this recent article in fight aging has on this theoretical discussion?

    https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2019/10/deletion-of-p38%ce%b1-in-neurons-slows-neural-stem-cell-decline-and-loss-of-cognitive-function-in-mice/

     

    It is a long shot from the deletion of p38α in Neurons to triggering p38 mitogen-activated protein kinase-dependent apoptosis in chronic myelogenous leukemic cells. 

     

    Yes I know, This is a speculative theory but this is were we are right now. (Flying low and flying short, like the wright brothers did at kitty hawk).

    Like 2
    • For those interested in dosing of chlorogenic acid. They studied the metabolism of chlorogenic acid by giving 2000 mg to the participants. So that (2000 mg) is defintely a tolerable dose. if (and a big IF) chlorogenic acid t can be used as senolytic the dose would probably be much higher. 

      Like 1
  • Swanson Vitamins has Their own Fisetin  supplement out - equivalent to Dr Best.   lots cheaper!!

    $10.39 / 100

    https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-fisetin-100-mg-30-veg-caps

    Free shipping with $50 order...

    Like
  • I've done two courses of Fisetin treatment (I'm 50) along with my wife and aged mother, and we all saw fairly obvious symptoms of senolytic action. During the first round of treatment, I had a brief runny nose, my Mother had full-on cold symptoms, and my wife didn't notice any change. Also a scar/mole on my stomach started weeping from the edges. I noticed a week later that my stomach scar had shrunk greatly in size, and another scar on my shoulder that I had been keeping an eye on had completely disappeared. My occasional aching knee has stopped aching, and feels much looser. My mother and wife both had some skin tags that have now disappeared. 

    I see a lot of "fisetin does nothing" posts on the net, with people saying to try D+Q instead. I have a feeling people are using a sub-optimal protocol, sub-optimal fisetin, or don't have a great senescent cell burden, if they're seeing nothing.

    The protocol I followed was to take 3g per day split over in 2 doses - one in the morning and one a couple hours later around noon, repeated 3 days in a row. To improve bioavailability, I took bioperene first, and unlike others here, I mixed the fisetin with cream. I seem to be one of those people that react badly to the salicylate in olive oil, and found the stuff would stir into table cream fairly easily, which covers the fat-soluble requirement. Two days prior to the protocol I dropped every supplement I was using, which at the time was just NR. I will say that none of us stopped drinking coffee.

    The fisetin was 50% pure fisetin in bulk powder form. I used 6g of the product, to obtain a dose of 3g of fisetin.  I mention this in case some of the other 50% product in the fisetin source (Cotinus Coggygria P.E.) has an impact on the effect.

    Anyway, I tried this out mostly thanks to the information here. A big thanks from me for this great resource. 

    Like 4
      • Mel
      • Mel
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Ajax would you mind sharing your bodyweight.  Would like to know the mg/kg.  Thanks!

      Like
      • Larry
      • Larry.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Ajax I'm one of those who had no reaction from fisetin and great results form D&Q. I will try your protocol, thanks. 

      Like 1
      • Ajax
      • Ajax
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Mel Always a question people enjoy answering. 😉 I'm 110kg.

      Like
      • JOHN
      • JOHN.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Ajax How old is your aged mother?  My mother is 93 and cannot walk anymore.  My father has Alzheimers and is 88. I have asked their Dr if I can give them Fisetin becuase they live in an assisted living home and I cannot just hand them pills.  The Dr. said there was no indication for giving them Fisetin.  I may fight it.  But I'm really interested in how your mom fared and how old she is , etc etc....

      Like
      • Ajax
      • Ajax
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      JOHN My mother is in her early 80s. 

      It's hard for me to pinpoint any beneficial effects specifically to fisetin (aside from the disappearance of the scar and skin tags) because we've also been taking NR.

      That said, she reports a great improvement in her gluten sensitivity (which showed up in her later years), a reduction in fine wrinkles (I see the same in both of us), a thickening of her hair, and an overall increase in energy and well-being. Relatives have recently asked her if she had "work done".

      Prior to taking NR we both had chronic fatigue, and what NR did to combat that was amazing. However, these last few months if I miss a few days of NR I don't notice the same return to fatigue. I'm not entirely sure if it's the fisetin treatments that have done that, or if I've just managed to bank up a lot of NAD.

      Doctors will never recommend any of this stuff. They don't follow studies, and the studies that do get brought to their attention are via the drug companies.

      For your Dad, I'd actually make NR more of a priority than fisetin. It's been shown to help with an Alzheimer’s model in mice, and NADH (reduced NAD) has been shown to help Alzheimer's in people.

      Like
      • JOHN
      • JOHN.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Ajax thanks Ajax. Can you send me a link to the nad you take? There's a lot of stuff out there, precursors, nmn, etc so I'm not sure which one to take. I have taken a high dose Fisetin regimen once and I'm in the middle of my second one now. I did 2100mg with 850mg quercetin, 165mg bromelain. 10mg BioPerine and a tablespoon of olive oil. Day two it today. I haven't noticed much from the first one which was a much lower dose 800mg over 3 days. I take 100mg a day as well. Still waiting on results. Thanks for your input. I'm 51 old male by the way. 

      Like
      • Ajax
      • Ajax
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      JOHN 

      I've been taking Tru Niagen (NR) which I order through amazon. My reasoning for using NR is because it's the most studied in humans, and overall cost. It has an FDA GRAS (generally recognized as safe) designation, so it's probably easier to get the assisted living staff to give it.

      The recommended amount on the label is two pills, but it's better to start off with one and see how it goes. Also, best to take them early in the day, as they can disrupt sleep in some people if they take them too late in the day. (NAD influences circadian rhythms)

      Good luck with your folks, John.

      Like
      • BobM
      • BobM
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      JOHN 

      Fight that Doctor. Make him justify why not and what the risk is. I would want my advocate to do this for me.
      Many of these elderly care doctors are SO out of touch, IMO

      Like 1
      • JOHN
      • JOHN.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      BobM I don't know if I could ever live with myself if I ended up giving them high doses of Fisetin and they ended up getting sick or drying.  Unfortunately it's not as easy of a decision when it involves somebody else. 

      Like
      • Karl
      • Karl.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      BobM yes, we’re so out of touch.

      Like
  • Do you know anyone that is also taking Apocynin along with the Fisetin?  If so, what is the dosage they are using?

    Like
  • Hi,

    Thanks for all the great posts and research, they have been very useful! I have some age-related conditions even although I'm not 60 yet and have always had a healthy diet and been very active. So I'm keen to try senolytics to get some quality of life back.

    First I tried 100 mg fisetin in the capsule, that was fine, so I a few days later I tried 600 mg dissolved in MCT coconut oil, on an empty stomach. That caused a burning throat and really bad diarrhea for 3 1/2 hours! I had to stay very close to the toilet, the visits there were only about 5 minutes apart for the first couple of hours. I think I must either be really sensitive to fisetin, or have a lot of senescent cells.

    I noticed the first effects 20 minutes after taking the fisetin, my throat started to burn and my tummy started to grumble. I was quite surprised and thought maybe it was all in my head, until I had to bolt for the toilet 30 minutes after taking it.

    The good news is that it seems quite a lot of fisetin dissolved in the oil and was bio-available, because it could not have reached the large intestine so rapidly. I also got a couple of quick fevers that only lasted a few seconds, and chills while on the toilet.

    So after waiting a week I’ve just done two days of 200 mg fisetin in warm milk, after a meal. The first day I got some tummy grumbles and burning throat but nothing more, and the second day nothing at all. Next week I’ll try 300 mg and see how that goes. If I can gradually increase the dose then I think that could be a sign that the load of senescent cells is reducing.

    Each time I have stopped taking all other supplements the night before, the morning of, and the night after taking fisetin, and reduced the metformin to 500 mg.

    Like
      • Koo
      • Koo
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Koo I've posted some interesting inflammatory cell count results from a blood test recently, which credit to fisetin. Have a look at my post in the "Test results" category.

      Like
  • An update on my fisetin trial (above). This week I tried 300 mg of fisetin (Dr's Best) in warm milk, after a protein shake. There were no effects. The next day I decided to see what would happen if I dissolved the fisetin in MCT coconut oil again, like I did before, but this time I only used 300 mg fisetin and took it after I had a protein shake. And unlike when I put the same amount in milk, I did notice effects! 10 minutes after taking it I started to sweat, and felt unwell. But I didn't get a burning throat like before.

    20 minutes after ingestion I decided to take my blood pressure, as I could feel my heart going. My blood pressure had gone up to 143/86, with a heart rate of 95. I kept monitoring it, and it went to 142/90, HR 101 before it started to fall. At 30 minutes post ingestion my blood pressure had returned to normal and HR was down, but still a little elevated. Later that evening it was 123/88, HR 85, so my blood pressure was almost back to normal but I still had a slightly elevated HR. This  morning everything is back to my usual, 110/67 HR 72, and I feel good.

    I don' t know if the heart effects happened last time I took fisetin in oil because I was too busy running to the toilet, and didn't check my blood pressure! This time I had to go to the toilet at 30 minutes, it was normal consistency, then I slept for several hours. When I got up again I had diarrhea but only once. I did drink coffee every time.

    So it seems that fisetin can have dramatic effects when dissolved in oil, but I don't know if the difference between being dissolved in oil and milk is because less of it dissolves in milk. Or maybe the oil has some other influence on the way fisetin is processed by the body. In any case I can confidently say that fisetin in coconut oil is bio-available and rapidly and powerfully influences the body.

    Maybe to test the amount dissolved I could leave the two mixes for 24 hours and see if there is a similar amount that settles to the bottom of a glass. I'm not keen to try fisetin in oil again :-)

    Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Koo 

            That's very interesting.  My wife and I had used 2000 mg in warm olive oil for 2 days.  We didn't notice any symptoms as extreme as those you describe.

            Does anyone know if there is a chemical reason why coconut oil would do better at producing fisetin bio-availability than olive oil?

      Like
  • That's a good question! If I remember correctly other people have taken fisetin in coconut oil and not noticed significant side effects, maybe a burning throat was mentioned. If I feel brave I might take fisetin in olive oil next week :-)

    Like
      • Dan Nave
      • Dan_Nave
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Koo 

      Milk takes up to 4 hours to digest.  When it hits the stomach it immediately curdles and forms a mass which slows its digestion.  Anything taken with milk or mixed with milk will likewise take a long time to digest or be absorbed as it will be surrounded by the slowly digesting milk proteins, etc.  Don't take anything with milk if you want quick digestion.

      300 mg of fisetin is not a particularly high dose.  I suspect you are experiencing a food sensitivity or intolerance (similar to an allergy, but limited to the digestive system) to either fisetin or the plant from which the fisetin is extracted.  The burning throat is a good clue, not to mention the really bad diarrhea  for 3 1/2 hours which you reported.

      Like
      • Ajax
      • Ajax
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Dan Nave 

      I don't think it's clear that milk is problematic for fisetin delivery. Milk is used to increase the bio-availability of fat soluble vitamins (fortified milk), and unbound fisetin has a half life of 3h in the blood (in mice, with their fast metabolism), so there's likely a bit of time to get to that critical dose.

      I used cream with fisetin, mainly because the salicylates in coconut oil and olive oil makes me extremely nauseous and gives me the runs. It was my hope that some of the cream might act as a crude liposomal coating, but either way it worked very well for me. I had clear signs of senolytic action. (mentioned earlier in this thread)

      I do agree that the dose here seems low. I think even the Mayo protocol dose is conservative, and it's much higher.

      Like
      • Koo
      • Koo
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Ajax Thanks again for your feedback on having salicylate sensitivity. I finally plucked up the courage to try the coconut oil on its own yesterday, about 1/4 cup, and it wasn’t pleasant hehe. I have discovered an interesting fact about myself – I appear to be sensitive to salicylates! As before, my heart rate and blood pressure shot up soon after taking the oil, and a little later the diarrhoea started. OhBoy!

      If you hadn’t mentioned it I wouldn’t have had a clue what was going on. On the bright side, it means I’m feeling a lot better about taking the fisetin! And the interesting thing about salicylate sensitivity is that it arises from the COX genes/enzymes not functioning properly, and I have a condition associated with chronic inflammation. So there is potential for treatment.

      Like 1
      • Ajax
      • Ajax
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Koo I'm glad you figured it out, and that my post was helpful!

      Like
      • Koo
      • Koo
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Ajax I would love to hear from anybody who dissolves fisetin in oil. How much oil are you using? I want to know if I was using way too much, it was around 60 mL, or if others use this much without any problem.

      Thanks.

      Like
      • Ajax
      • Ajax
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Koo I was using a bit less than that - about a shot glass worth - so maybe 45ml.

      I don't see smaller amounts being used. Even at these amounts, it looks like the fisetin is suspended, rather than dissolved.

      Like
      • Koo
      • Koo
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Ajax Thanks very much, that's good to know.

      Like
  • Thanks Dan, that's interesting about milk. It's also 90% water, so probably a lot of the fisetin doesn't dissolve.

    Yes, it seems that I'm unusually sensitive to fisetin. I'm curious to see if I can gradually build up the dose, and it is interesting that I didn't get the burning throat the last 3 times I took fisetin. But maybe the thing to do is to try quercetin next week at a low dose and see what happens with that, it might provide some clues. I hope I can take something!

    Anyway, at least I can assure the people who are taking fisetin in oil that it is bio-available in purified coconut oil :-)

    Like
  • Another thought, I wasn't paying any attention to my coffee drinking, so maybe there was an interaction between the fisetin and caffeine, which caused the heart effects. It might be a good idea to drink decaf on the days I take fisetin and probably quercetin.

    Like 1
  • Thanks for the feedback, I really like the idea of trying fisetin in cream, I'll give that a try next week :-)  I might also try the coconut oil on its own at some point, to see if I react to that like you do, that's good info. I don't want to even look at it at the moment!

    Like 1
  • FWIW, I get a sore throat from plain virgin coconut oil with nothing added.

    Like 1
  • Hello everyone I wanted to give you a breakdown of my fisetin experience over the last year.

     

    I went in fairly hardcore trying to emulate the experiments done with mice only in humans. And I also repeated the treatment routinely. 

     

    I think the math worked out 100mg for every 15 pounds of weight. I did the math back then. Suffice to say I was around 220 lbs and I took 18 tablets (100mg each).

     

    Me: 43 years old, male, 220lbs

     

    The specific amounts I took were:

     

    DAY 1: 18 x 100mg tablets (Swansons Brand) 

    DAY 2: repeat

    DAY 3: repeat

     

    Initial observations where that by day 2 I was a little jittery, not a lot, but I had amazing strength in my legs and a firmness throughout all muscles. By day 3 I was feeling fantastic and this feeling became more intense for a week after and even was noticeable 3 weeks out.

     

    I suspect that fisetin raises hormone levels as well. Because I felt 20 years younger and full of strength, Mentally I twice as sharp. I remember distinctly that when walking around during week one I could hear every thing brilliantly, the world was crisp and alive. So there is definitely some kind of hormonal effect or other stimulation than just senescent cell clearance. These effects were much too fast to be a result of that. 

     

    I repeated the treatment at 2 weeks, then at 4 weeks, then at 6 weeks, and 8 weeks again and then gave it 5 months or so and now I am doing a repeat but at a slighty higher dosage.

     

    In each iteration I noticed a powerful effect for the first week, and a great 2nd and 3rd week. And then I still maintained much of the muscle density and firmness and increased energy thereafter. I decreased the frequency I was taking fisetin due to my concerns that it was spiking testosterone somehow. After all the goal was to clear senescent cells not mess with hormones. 

     

    I can say that in the year since I started, I have maintained a stronger physique, my posture is better, my abs and chest are firmer, I don't look my age, but I kinda was that way before to an extent. If I shave close people will honestly think I am in my late twenties. 

     

    My view on this is the following: Any senescent cell clearance benefits will show up slowly, just like the negatives of having them in your body to begin with.  I would use hormone therapy for gender reassignment as an example. If you see how long  HRT takes to have real results its about 6 months to a year with the most dramatic results at the 2 year mark. So quickly making assessments about fisetin is likely foolish as the body needs time to regenerate lost cells, and cells which were antagonized by senescent cell signalling need time to adjust back into equilibrium.

     

    Additionally fisetin is shown to be more effective in certain tissues. I think more so in muscle tissue, and some organs.

     

    Overall I am seeing and experiencing good results. My energy levels have remained high ever since dose one. I still remember myself a year before starting and even 4 years back. I was dead tired after work, hard to stay focused on anything mentally and lethargic. That is no longer the case and my new norm is lots of energy and focus, and I can stay up till 2 am if I want.

     

    My current regime is 25x 100mg tablets. I will do this for 3 days. The main thing is I noticed no side effects. A little jitterness in the first few days when doing a treatment and then that goes away. I was worried about my hairline but it does not seem to have a lasting effect though I suspect if you dosed constantly it could so something there. All in all I suspect this is effective in humans just as in mice, but we have to look 2 years out to see results and then compare ourselves to our no longer existing former selves who did not take the treatment. 

    If there are any questions for me I can answer. I will say this, fisetin works, it's safe, and likely it does exactly what it does in mice, only in humans. Fairly exciting stuff.  

    Like 5
  • Carl D

     Thanks for sharing.   So you did not use piperine nor mix the fisetine with oil or cream?

    Like
  • Some really good info in this study on Fisetin for improved cognition and neuro diseases. Lots of great detail.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5527824/

    Like 1
      • Ajax
      • Ajax
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      John W Thanks for posting that. Lots of good info indeed!

      I was especially glad to read the toxicology section, though given the widespread lower-dose supplemental use of fisetin, I'm not too surprised.

      Like
      • John W
      • John_Whitling
      • 1 yr ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Ajax I was particularly floored by the work on Alzheimer's and the idea that it raises cognitive abilities even among normal people. Fisetin could really be a game changer, way beyond just senescent cells. I haven't digested it all yet but I am on board, having just purchased a lot of it to see how it goes. My wife is APOE4/4 so this is welcome news to me.

      Like 2
    • John W 

       

      When I translate the doses used on mice it quals a daily dose for humans of 2 mg/kg. 

      Like 1
      • John W
      • John_Whitling
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson I was reading 25 mg per kg. I really take a deep dive into this study. I have read  a few of them on fisetin but this has the most useful info. Here's what I found in the Alzheimer's section ..

      Two groups each of wild type and AD mice were used for these studies. Fisetin was fed to one set of wild type and one set of AD mice between the ages of 3 and 12 months in their food at 0.05%, resulting in a daily dose of approximately 25 mg/kg body weight (bw). This dose of fisetin was chosen based on earlier studies on fisetin and cognitive function in mice (21).

      By my way of thinking that would be the same for humans but is that correct?

      Also there's a comment on 40 mg per kg being equivalent to donepizel in response for AD.

      Like 1
    • John W 

       When it comes to translate the animal doses that is used in experiments it is a science of itself. Difference in size as well as differences in metabolism. I post a link to a guide to basic calculations.

       

      In table one they show that a basic approach to translate a dose given to mice is to divide the animal dose by 12,3. They you get to HED = human equivalent dose.

       

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4804402/

       

      So 25 mg/kg to a mouse equals 25/12,3=2,03 to a human.

      Like 1
      • John W
      • John_Whitling
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson I would have never guessed! Thanks much for explaining and posting that link.

      Like
    • John W 

       

      When using fisetin as a geroneuroprotector, most humans would need to take at least 150 - 200 mg fisetin daily. this based on to the above posted link and according to a basic dose translation. That is a very reasonable amount to take every day. But we will not reach strong (if any) senolytic effect when dosing is in this range. 

      Like
      • John W
      • John_Whitling
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson Thanks to that dosing study you posted that is the plan but I do have enough to do some spiking sessions maybe in concert with quercitin. I am excited to begin.

      Mixing with olive oil would be a daily pain though, but we'll see how it goes. I used to make a poor man's lipo vitamin C for my dad who had T4a cancer. I was a lot of effort.

      Like
  • The place where Ive been getting my 98% pure Fisetin also sells pure Apocynin powder.  They suggest that the combo dovetails benefits. Has anyone else had any experience with Apocynin?

    Like
      • DIANE B
      • DIANE_B
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

       I got it from same place most presumably.  The only uses I really found for apocynin were topical claims to skin rejuvenation.  Anyone else?

      Like
  • For the past week I've been taking 125mg of Apocynin every morning, dissolved in a shot glass of hot water.  Seems to give me energy without the jitters. I also made up a batch in a light saline solution and am trying it out on my face.  

    Like 1
      • Moonlitnight
      • Medical Writer working on age reversal for over 20 yrs
      • Moonlitnight
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Zack Lonetree   Hi Jack, what is the amount of apo you are using in the saline?

      Like
    • Antonia Gauer 

      For the topical Apocynin solution I started out by dissolving 50mg in 10 ounces of a light saline solution.

      Like 1
  • I finished my second 3 day protocol of fisetin today.  I'd to get some thoughts on how long I should wait to do the follow up blood testing.  Current plan is 2 weeks.

    Like
      • Koo
      • Koo
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Mel Hi Mel,

      I'm new to this, but my feeling is that you should wait longer, at least a month before you have a blood test. This will give the fisetin time to have noticeable effects. As others have said, it will most likely take some time, and you most likely want to keep the number of blood tests you have to a minimum.

      Like
      • Mel
      • Mel
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Koo thanks for your thoughts.   Why would one want keep the number of blood tests to a minimum?   Thanks again. 

      Like
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