Green tea and green tea extracts

Green tea benefits (and how to get them). 

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  • BobM

    Hi Bob!

     

    I start this thread to avoid polluting the fisetin thread with posts about information about green tea (alone or in combination with other substances). There is plenty of research supporting that combination of green tea and quercetin. I throw in some links to research that I find convincing.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22438067

    Quercetin increased bioavailability and decreased methylation of green tea polyphenols in vitro and in vivo.

     

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22452782

    Quercetin increased the antiproliferative activity of green tea polyphenol (-)-epigallocatechin gallate in prostate cancer cells.

     

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4384709/

    Primary Cancer Prevention by Green Tea, and Tertiary Cancer Prevention by the Combination of Green Tea Catechins and Anticancer Compounds. (Table 1)

     

    There are also a body of research that support the use of of Sulforaphane and 3,3′-Diindolylmethane alone or in a combination with green tea.

     

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0086787

    Effects of Sulforaphane and 3,3′-Diindolylmethane on Genome-Wide Promoter Methylation in Normal Prostate Epithelial Cells and Prostate Cancer Cells. - Wong et al. aimed to evaluate the genome-wide effects of sulforaphane (SFN) and 3,3′-diindolylmethane (DIM) on DNMT1, DNMT3A, and DNMT3B activity and promoter methylation status in normal prostate epithelial cells and LnCAP and PC3 prostate cancer cell lines. For all three prostate cell lines, the authors revealed widespread changes in promoter methylation patterns in response to SFN or DIM interventions. Importantly, SFN and DIM reversed many of the cancer-associated methylation alterations, including aberrantly methylated genes that are dysregulated or are highly involved in cancer progression, such as C–C chemokine receptor type 4 (CCR4), transforming growth factor-β1 receptor type I (TGFBR1), cysteine-rich angiogenic inducer 61 (CYR61), and C-X-C chemokine receptor type 4 (CXCR4).

     

    I have previously used life extensions Triple Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract but will change to their new optimized cruciferious blend. The combination Green tea, quercetin and sulforaphanee+DIM is a very promising combination for health promotion and disease prevention.

    https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02368/optimized-broccoli-and-cruciferous-blend

    Reply Like 1
      • BobM
      • BobM
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson 

      Staffan, this is an excellent study and summary!!

      I am taking the optimized quercetin with the green tea both from Life Extension. 

      Also fresh broccoli sprouts which are VERY rich in sulphoraphane. These are so easy to grow. I’m having some with every meal now. 

      Reply Like
    • BobM 

       

      I don’t grow broccoli sprouts so I have to buy them dried.  And then I  take a teaspoon or two with meals. I take the capsules as a complement to the real thing. To make sure I get a meaningful amount into my system.

       

      Same things with green tea. Now I drink green tea but take capsules to make sure I get a physiological meaningful amount catechins into my body. I saw a research paper from japan where they hade people drink 1 liter of green tea but also had them eat green tea capsules. (it was about preventing coloncancer) I think this indicate that serious research has an idea that we have to ingest a fair amount of green tea to reach a disease preventing amount.

       

      In the fisetin thread I linked to another study that showed that an amount of 1 Liter green tea had a significant preventive effective. (Measured by delayed onset of cancer). And then we have to face the variability of EGCG content. Today I read that the catechin content can be between 20 – 100 mg of  per 100 ml tea. In other papers I read different amounts, usually less than 100 mg per 100 ML tea. The conclusion from this is that we never really know how much catechins we get from drinking green tea.

       

      I drink green tea that is harvested in the fall. They say that those kind of late harvest tea has more catechins than the spring harvest (Which has more theanin). And I only drink Japanese green tea. Some chinese green tea have a history of being polluted by lead.

      Reply Like 2
  • I started drinking green tea decades ago after living in Japan. Better than coffee for me, it does wake me up and calm me down. And yes we've since come to find out the tremendous health benefits. 

    Tea is the second most drunk liquid on the planet, after water. I wouldn't touch pills, straight from the source gives more benefits, health is body body and spirit. 

    Reply Like
    • Dan 

      I would not trade the pleasure of tea for capsules. But I use capsules to make sure I get a enough of catechins. 

      Reply Like 1
  • I'm not sure why this study isn't getting more attention but I think it's very important. It's from the Conboys at UC Berkley: 

    Recalibrating old blood to be young again 

    The new study suggests that the majority of aging is driven by changes to a limited number of regulatory signals present in blood. This is a reasonable hypothesis given that the bloodstream is the uniting communication network in the body and that the signals traveling through it do indeed have the potential to influence every cell within the body.

    The study focuses on two of the key molecules that influence the ability of stem cells to function and regenerate tissues: TGF-β1, which increases during aging, and oxytocin, which falls during aging. Using a pharmacological approach, they were able to reduce TGF-β1 levels and increase oxytocin, spurring rejuvenation and leading to significantly increased neurogenesis, a reduction of neuro-inflammation, increased cognitive performance, and rejuvenation of the liver and muscle in aged mice.

    https://www.leafscience.org/brain-liver-and-muscle-rejuvenated-by-calibrating-aged-blood/

    How do you reduce TGF-b1 levels? How about EGCG and myricetin? See this study:

    http://ejbio.imedpub.com/natural-compounds-targeting-transforming-growth-factorin-silico-and-in-vitro-study.php?aid=17673

    I'm not sure how you would increase oxytocin. Nasal spray? 

    Reply Like 1
    • Larry 

      Hi Larry!

       

      Thank you for bringing my attention to this study. It is very interesting. The first thing that come to my mind when I read the other link (about myrcetin and EGCG) is the product from lifeextension that is called ageless cell.

       

      https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02119/geroprotect-ageless-cell

       

      It has EGCG and Myricetin (+ NAC, Gamma tocotrienol). I have  been thinking about  what kind of information they have based their formula on. But your link indicate the possibility of a potential rejuvenating effect from EGCG and Myricetin.

       

      In the conboys study they used a TGF-β1 Type I Receptor Kinase Alk5 inhibitor called “2-(3-(6-Methylpyridin-2-yl)- 407 1H-pyrazol-4-yl)-1,5-naphthyridine”. The question is to find the best available alternative to the above mentioned substance. I wonder if there are any other alternatives than myrcetin and EGCG? But EGCG and Myricetin I should be an easy self-experiment to do.  And oxytocin can be taken as nasal spray or tablet dissolved under the tongue.  

      Reply Like 2
      • Larry
      • Larry.1
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view
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    • Larry Thank you.

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    • Larry BobM Dan

       

      I have made one observation that I don’t know how to make good sense of. In the now famous Fisetin study they screened several substances for an improved senolytic effect (compared to the relative week effect that we get from quercetin).

       

      In that screening process they used EGCG as one of the substances. Kindly look at figure 1 in section 3: results.

      https://www.ebiomedicine.com/article/S2352-3964(18)30373-6/fulltext

       

      There they show that EGCG has the opposite effect as fisetin. Can this be an indication that EGCG is prosenescense? Being prosenescense is not a bad thing since. Increased senescense can be a result from EGCG stopping dysfunctional cells and “throwing” them into senescent state where they no longer will replicate themselves or progress the evolution into full-blown diseases.

       

      This might be one of the ways that EGCG initiate to block or to delay the progression of diseases (Cancers). But EGCG is not senolytic and although arresting  dysfunctional cell cycles are a good thing it becomes  vital for the body to add senolytic treatments to get rid of the senescent burden.

       

      This is my own speculative thinking based of nothing else than the above-mentioned figure 1 in the fisetin study. The consequence of this speculation is not to stop drinking green tea. On the contrary.  We know EGCG has a very favorable effect on many cells in the human body and arresting dysfunctional cell cycles is good. But we need to stop dysfunctional cells from accumulating in the body.

       

      So to maximize the disease preventing  effect from EGCG we have to get rid of the senescent cells. This thinking makes it rational to use EGCG in a combination with senolytic therapy. So green tea lovers should really keep doing senolytic therapy on a regular basis.

       

      I am very interested in hearing other interpretations of the above mentions figure 1 in the Fisetin study.

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      • BobM
      • BobM
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson and Larry:

      Great thoughts here!

      I’m sure other researchers are quietly following along. It’s this kind of outside the box brainstorming that leads to big breakthroughs. Keep it going!

      The body has a lot of “tear it down” “build it up” processes. With multiple mechanisms at play. 

      Reply Like
    • Larry 

       

      Hi Larry!

      You got me started on the Myrcetin -EGCG combination. Myrcetin is a MRP2 inhibitor and the combination EGCG and quercetin have shown synergies in quite many research papers. Myrcetin but also curcumin might be added to design a cocktail that acts synergistically on many cells in the human body.

       

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820202/

      Down below I have taken some of the thoughts from a paper called "Improving the oral bioavailability of beneficial polyphenols through designed synergies."

      "the beneficial green tea component EGCG and its methyl metabolites have low oral bioavailability, which is thought to be partly due to the actions of the MRP efflux pumps [29, 79]. Co-consumption with a polyphenol MRP2 inhibitor (my note -  myrcetin and curcumin are MRP2 inhibitors) may greatly increase the oral bioavailability of EGCG, and putatively, its beneficial activity on human health. Furthermore, if the efflux pump inhibitors themselves have reasonable oral bioavailability, they may also facilitate the increased penetration through the BBB [90]. For example, quercetin is a weak ligand of the benzodiazepine site of the GABA-A receptor [70] and thus might have anxiolytic activity if it were able to reach its site of action in the brain. The co-consumption of a product rich in quercetin, with a bioavailable BCRP inhibitor may increase quercetin’s entry into the brain and hence unleash novel bioactivity from a very commonly consumed polyphenol."

       

      "For example, quercetin bioavailability may be greatly increased when co-consumed with a polyphenol BCRP inhibitor-like apigenin, hesperetin or naringenin [6]. ( my note - naringinin is a grapefruit flavonoid and curcumin is also a BCRP inhibitor) Furthermore, polyphenols which can increase the function or expression of MRP3 activity, thus increasing substrate movement into plasma, may further add to this synergistic interaction. This approach is likely to be more successful when used acutely and short term, as chronic exposure to some polyphenol efflux pump inhibitors may actually increase transporter expression over time [14, 27]."

      Reply Like 1
      • Larry
      • Larry.1
      • 4 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson Thanks for the info Staffan. It's interesting to note that Hesperetin is also a TGF-b1 signal inhibitor. I started a Myrcetin -EGCG combination too. I also started drinking more green tea. Good luck and cheers!

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3513570/

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      • Larry
      • Larry.1
      • 4 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson Please read this blog from Josh Mittledorf. He has talked to  Dr Harold Katcher who claims to have reversed aging in mice using small molecules: 

      "Our first pass was to try a combination of known herbal supplements that are known to bind with the targets we’d identified.  We gave them to rats, and at first nothing seemed to be happening. But after two months (about 4 years in human terms) the rats showed signs of rejuvenation.  We were encouraged. Rather than continue with the herbs, though, we formulated the elixir that we report on here. This is our first iteration, with dosage and timing determined theoretically, yet to be optimized in the lab"

      https://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2019/02/05/rumors-of-age-reversal-the-plasma-fraction-cure/

      I "think" that they used some herbal supplements to clean out TGF-b1 from the blood.  If the Conboys and Dr. Katcher are right then it must be some of the supplements we are looking at but perhaps they have something better. 

      Reply Like
    • Larry  Thank you for bring my attention to this. And now I will try to find a good source of myricetin. 

      Reply Like
    • Larry Hesperitin looks interesting as TGF-b1 inhibitor. But should be careful not to take hepseridin for being equal to hesperitin. "hesperetin interacts with membranes stronger than hesperidin"

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20447374

       

       I am looking for a good source for M;yricetin. Have you found one? I have not tried myricetin yet. They also promote dihydromyricetin as a cure for hang overs. 

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      • Larry
      • Larry.1
      • 4 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson Amazon

      Reply Like
    • Larry I must have missed it. I use Amazon in the UK. 

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    • Larry 

       

      This might be interesting. Lactobacillus reuteri upp-regulates oxytocin.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3813596/

      Reply Like
  • The concept of combinations is powerful. As in basic chemistry. 

    Also as powerful are cycles in the body. Like wash THEN dry. Not at the same time.

    I think we need to test some of these combinations in cycles. Like D for two days followed by Q for two. Or D+Q, followed in some time ( 3 days?) by large doses of Fisetin or equivalent.

    ETC....

    Thoughts by all on cycles?

    Reply Like
      • Danmoderator
      • skipping my funeral
      • dantheman
      • 4 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      BobM Completely agree that cycling, or Hormesis as it's biologically known, is an important approach to intervention. The present theory of aging prevention centers around biological stress as it turns out that we find our build in repair mechanisms are triggered by environmental stress. Caloric restriction, fasting, exercise, heat/cold stress, Resveratrol, Metformin ... these and more are all ways of temporarily stressing our systems and initiating repair. David Sinclair just released a book on this subject, and also Voltor Longo's book on fasting and longevity. In engineering we use this concept as Pareto. 

      So the name of the game is finding a balance to hit the sweep spot of that hormesis curve, or equivalently the crossover point of a Pareto chart. Where is that? Great questions, figure it out for us! Nobody knows and it's different for every circumstance, so we have to use common sense to find the balance. 

      Note: pet peeve of mine, this is not the same as the "everything in moderation" canard. Instead the mantra is "Everything in balance". Feast and famine. 

      Reply Like 1
    • Dan Larry BobM

       

      Yes I agree with both of you. There are questions that we don’t yet have answers to and other questions that we are getting better and better answers to.

       

      Like which supplement should be taken permanently to occupy a receptor or to acting on a target enzyme? And which supplement or medications should be taken intermittently, this to avoid overstimulation/oversuppressing our systems (like mTor might be), or to avoid downsides like upregulation of compensatory systems in our bodies that in the long run pose a risk for nullifying the aimed for benefits.

       

      And sometimes we have to rely on  our fabulous organism to normalize and simply just rebuild itself after having faced a stressor/stimuli.  Exercise is a great example of this approach. 

       

      When taking medicines and supplements There are often unintended consequences So, a good strategy is to try and restrain oneself and not use to many supplements (which can be hard) at least not take a lot of supplements all of the time.   

       

      A big question is to find synergies and substances that function as agonists and avoid antagonists. As when pharmaceutical industry analyze negative and positive interactions. What to take, when to take it and with what frequency should we take it? How to combine them?

       

      Which supplement to take in the morning on empty stomach? Which supplements to take with food? And which to take at evenings or before bedtime? Which can be taken together without not interfering negatively with each other and which should be taken together to receive hoped for synergies?

       

      Therefore, I take green tea capsules with real green tea in the morning and quercetin at the same time. Aiming for synergies. I might add myricetin and curcumin BCM 95. (Well knowing that this is not the optimal timing for curcumin which should be taken with food).  This morning I tried out LEF’s new bioavailable green tea extract together with a cup of real Japanese green tea and with one capsule quercetin from Thorne and one Capsule Curcumin BCM 95 from LEF.  This was the first time I tried out this combo. Theoretically the synergies are there. Even though I know that curcumin should be taken with a fatty meal.

       

      This is a shot at finding synergies not a focus at optmizing every individual supplement. Trying to see the whole picture or at least a picture that is larger than every single supplement that is said to be beneficial. . 

       

      One member here has a name "are we there yet" and that name makes me think of the wright brothers.  The Wright brothers – Orville and Wilbur - are credited for creating the first flying airplane. They did so in competition with financial big corporations and against people with scientific status. But the Wright brother managed to pull it off (the ground). Now, referring back to those entrepreneurs it makes me ask “Are we flying yet”. “We” that aim for prolonging human life and it’s healthspan? Well, I think we at least are off the ground. We might not be very high up, But we are off the ground.

      Reply Like 2
      • Danmoderator
      • skipping my funeral
      • dantheman
      • 4 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson FWIW I think keeping it simple is a good approach, one because we don't know what those synergies are and two, it's important to have an approach that is easy to follow. There's one other thing which comes from the old days when we thought that 'protein combining' was important. Later we found you don't have to combine, your body will do it for you. I partially suspect that with supplements it doesn't matter, transit time through your body is such that trying to micromanage it won't help. 

      Otherwise I do a few things with timing

      • ALA/ALC & Taurine I take on an empty stomach before breakfast and it anecdotally appears to work better that way and is recommend
      • 5-HTP & Melatonin I take before sleep (+ Glycine sometimes) 
      • Repair based supplements I take at dinner since repair occurs with overnight fasting (catabolism)
      • Building/support supplements I take with breakfast, and ones that go well with fat, because that's when building up occurs (anabolism)
      • Breakfast is most caloric dense
      • Dinner is light with lunch in between the two, to support the anabolic/catabolic process. 
      • I drink my tea in the morning before breakfast
      • I exercise in the morning before breakfast, to maximize glucose burn off and measurements have shown that doing so at that point keeps glucose low and controlled throughout the day, almost no matter what I eat.
        • Exercise is 30 minutes high intensity stationary cycle
        • 15 minutes pilates
        • 15 minutes free weights alternate days

      On a larger scale I do twice yearly one week water only fasts, middle of summer and between Christmas and New Years. During this period I go off all supplements and medications, exercise and of course food. The rest of the year I eat as much as I wish within my diet (whole foods high nutrient vegan). This also is a larger anabolic/catabolic cycle, with the two fasts being major catabolic modalities. 

      So putting all this together my estimation is that this cycles the catabolic/anabolic on a daily and yearly basis, and also gives me a twice yearly rest from everything including the health promoting regime. The fasts are a chance for my system to just do it all on it's own. 

      Finally! I'll point out that this system is also very convenient. I exercise and shower once, and get it out of the way. Waking up slowly and drinking tea is the most enjoyable way to do it, and the best for ECCG absorption. A water only fast is a mental journey as much a physical, and twice a year I'm ready for one anyhow. Starting the new year after a fast is a wonderful way to begin, as I get that time to reflect and take stock. Eating light in the evening helps me sleep (oh I make sure to have some good carbohydrates like sweet potato which also helps.) And so on, there are many synergies here for physical and mental health. 

      Reference: 

      I'm cycling on the following axis 

      • Anabolic/catabolic cycle as the primary repair/rebuild mechanism of aging
      • Circadian cycle (daily)
      • Seasonal cycle (yearly)
      Reply Like 1
    • Dan Thank you for sharing your thoughts, principles for health and sharing your regim. I post my own thinking and regim here.  I just need some time to write it down. 

      Reply Like
    • Dan Larry BobM

      Like most people my routine is evolving. If I Should mention the basic components it should be as follows.

       

      Exercise:

      The first thing I do when I wake (3-4 times a week) up is physical exercise.  Mostly some kind of running. Sometimes 1 hour for an endurance effect, other mornings I do interval training with 2 – 4 intervals 4- 6 minutes long at max speed and some morning the intervals can be 30 – 90 seconds long maximal bursts and other mornings I might focus on 10 - 30 seconds maximum bursts of sprinting. After running I sometimes do some muscle strengthening. I try to stay away from a fixed routine that my body easily adapt to. This kind of free regime makes it more fun for me and it also put different stress-signals to the body. I usually have a cup of coffee before running and some quick acting creatine. Otherwise exercise is done on an empty stomach.  Sometimes I let my body rest and rebuild for 3-4 days.

       

      Morning supplements:

      On empty stomach (or on empty stomach after my running), I take green tea, green tea capsules, quercetin. Based on nothing but my own experience of personal wellbeing I also take vitamin B6 in the morning. (If I don’t run, then I don’t have coffee). Since a few days I am experimenting with curcumin an hour after the green tea and quercetin. I know that curcumin should be taken with a fatty meal but if not focusing solely on absorption of the curcumin but on creating a greater synergy I might move my daily curcumin from lunch/dinner to mornings. Placebo or not, so far I have had an increased feeling of wellbeing when I take curcumin after my green tea + quercetin. Later I will experiment with myricetin.

       

      I don’t eat breakfast; lunch is my first meal of the day. I try to have at least 14 - 16 hours between the last meal of the evening and the first meal the day. But I don’t do this diet pattern 7 days a week. At least one day a week I indulge myself in proper breakfast and I might also add some whey protein. On those days I feel the anabolic system kick in. Since I have coffee tea and creatine this is not a pure fast.

       

      Lunch:

      With my lunch I take vitamin D + Vitamins K2mk7 + Curcumin in the form of BCM 95 + grapeseed extract and a tocotrienol blend. (As previously said, I might move the curcumin to mornings). On most days during lunch or dinner I have dried Broccoli sprouts.  

       

      Dinner:

      At dinnertime I have cruciferous extracts and LEFs omega 3 with astaxanthin and  olive oil components. And I often add one multivitamin capsule “Two per day from LEF”. And periodically I take extra B12 at dinner. I have made my own reishi extract (double extraction) which I take after dinner. (on intermittent basis).

       

      Before bedtime:

      At night before bedtime I take folic acid and magnesium + (And intermittently I take 1500 mg Taurine aiming at improved sleep and to support neurogenesis).  Note, I know that magnesium threonate is not for me. I have tried that kind of magnesium a few times and I have a suspicion that it might be correlated in giving me an unpleasant irritability. As person I am otherwise relaxed, and I usually don’t loose my temper. During the time(s) I used magnesium threonate I also took Q10 which in some cases also can elicit irritability. So, the “jury is out” when it comes to those two supplements (or the combination of them) and my experience of out of character irritability.

       

      I have tried melatonin a couple of times and in different doses and with different formulas (extended release etc ) but unfortunately it has not worked well for me. In the future I will try to make melatonin work for me, this since it seems to have other beneficial effects besides supporting good nights sleep. The issues I have had with melatonin is that I have slept very deep but woken up after 3-5 hours and then being wide awake and not been able to go back to sleep again. In cases that melatonin did give me a full nights sleep I have been tired the next day.  But right now I have other substances I prioritize to add to my regime.

       

      When it comes AMPK I think that I so far have done well with exercise but now when I age (soon 57) I am considering Berberine, Gynostemma, metformin. Right now I am doing an “AMPK stimulating” test. Two months on life extensions AMPK activator which has worked well with my intermittent fasting. I lost 3 kg from that intervention. Now I am on a 2 months berberine trial.  My other regime is about the same as under my gynostemma period and so far, I’d say gynostemma is the better choice for me. At least I got results as well as a “feeling” that it acted more in synergy with my intermittent fasting. But its to early to say. I probably end up with metformin or gynostemma product ( or the gynostemma tea which I also have tried with similar success). When it comes to gynostemma tea my experience is that it makes me sleepy so I had it in the evenings. Since my wife is fluent in Chinese she has told me that on TCM sites in China they often recommend to drink gynostemma tea in the morning. This I have to explore further.

       

      I do senolytic therapy based on Fisetin in combination with other senolytic agents. I will do D + Q When I can get Dasatinib from India.

       

      Future changes or experiments (hopefully improvements):

      - twice a week I will do more heavy resistance training. Primarily not to build muscles but to build health. When muscles are forced to work at their maximum they elicit an anabolic response that the whole body can benefit from and that kind of strong muscles might might send other rejuvenating signals to the rest of the body. This hypothesis need scientific support. (It might be seen as something similar to what Larry mentioned but of course being a weaker approach to recalibrate your blood).

      - I consider adding a low dose fisetin daily or on most days (150 – 300 mg). Not aiming at a senolytic effects but as a gero-neuroprotecting agent.

      - Myircetin will be tried as a part of my morning regime with green tea and quercetin.

      - Pterostilbene + NAD? I have very little experience. But of course they are interesting for me.  

      - When it comes to piperlongumines and senolytic therapy, I have made my own extract from piper longum frutis and will try this as a part of future senolytic treatment.

       

      Is this all?

      No but this is my basic regime. I am not vegetarian. Most weekdays I have only a sallad for lunch and plenty of vegetables for dinner with fish and meat. I am very curious to see what science will say about C60 and human life extension. 

      Reply Like 1
      • BobM
      • BobM
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Dan 

      Excellent. I’m 68 now, and can’t keep the exercise up to anywhere near your level. 

      You might try going off all the tea things a couple days and see how your sleep does. I have the same issue as you there. 

      I like the way you have your supplements organized...thanks for sharing 

      Reply Like
      • Danmoderator
      • skipping my funeral
      • dantheman
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      BobM Thanks, yeah done bunch of experiments, any sleep issues are independent of the tea. Mainly it's my mental state, if I'm concerned about something then sleep will be disturbed. 

      Reply Like
  • John Whitling

     

    If you decide to try Ferulic acid then I am very interested to learn about your experience. I will try Ferulic acid + EGCG myself, but not right now. I have quite a few potentially health promoting and anti-aging interventions that I want to add to my regime before I try Ferulic acid. To find out what works on an individual basis means adding one intervention at the time so Ferulic acid will have to wait for a while.  For me to learn if ferulic acid really can assist EGCG with ameliorating the symptoms of AD would be very relevant knowledge. Even if it is only done by one person that’s how pioneering is done. And that is were we are right now. Whatever you decide to do, Good luck. And yet again thank you for sharing your EGCG dosing.

    Reply Like
      • John W
      • John_Whitling
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson I just need to write to clarify one thing with our conversations so far about AD, inflammation, and the green tea extract dose I mentioned (3x700mg daily). While this dosage reduced inflammation considerably, taking the patient out of the deadly suicidal depth of depression it alone is not enough in my experience. Much that I guess has to do with the stage AD we're addressing. The inflammatory process of AD happens BEFORE normally regarded symptoms of AD such as memory loss, confusion, poor navigational skills, and reduced walking speed. Once you get a certain amount of damage from inflammation I don't think that you'll find these methods effective.

      The person I mentioned before is now also on minocycline, an antibiotic that is also a powerful anti inflammatory and crosses the BBB. Minocycline is now being used for depression, brain inflammation, etc. While it's quite useful it also comes with numerous side effects with long term use. IMO the side effects are worth it if it makes a meaningful difference to the patient. Adding minocycline took the patient from a non suicidal depressed state to one of normal mood. That's a very happy and rare result.

      Other things that this patient takes daily that also effect inflammation are selegiline, metformin, estrodial, and especially memantine ( a powerful NMDA inhibitor) which was prescribed for daily migraines after a raft of other migraine protocols did nothing.

      We also use high amounts of various magnesiums including neuro mag by LEF, a milder but essential NMDA inhibitor.

      Does all of this have a point? Yep it does .. fighting APOE4 AD before it becomes widely symptomatic requires listening to all relevant disease states the the patient is dealing with and finding commonality among all of the issues. APOE has a lifetime effect on just about everything, all the way down to cellular energy processing.

      BTW the noticed in the green tea comparison posted by BobM has some really crazy (to me) dosages in it. The first product indicates 10,000 mg of green tea???? In one capsule? I don't think so. I would be especially leery of that claim and product.

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    • John Whitling Thank you for the clarification. 

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  • Just FYI, Here is a high level overview of some popular Green Tea supplements: 

    https://bodynutrition.org/green-tea-extract/

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