Fisetin to Clear Senescent Cells

Robert Olin you are making the assumption that more is better? 

Karl Voice of reason! I think the best approach is to mimick for now Walter's Longo's fasting protocol  translating it to senolytics on how often depending on your personal physical shape. Once more studies are done, hopefully on monkeys, we will know better on how to proceed with senolytics.

Robert Olin I don’t mean to rain on your parade. I’m glad you’re here and getting involved in senolytics. There is great potential to slow or reverse aging.  Unfortunately there are very few human studies available on senolytics, so it’s difficult to determine the correct dosage or frequency.

a few quotes from the recent fight aging newsletter:

“The growing numbers of senescent cells in older people (and even larger numbers in older obese people) contribute to near all conditions of aging. Removing them has proven to be very beneficial in animal studies, reversing the progression of numerous age-related diseases.

A global, always-on mechanism to remove senescent cells has been shown to improve health and longevity in mice, but is probably not a good idea for human medicine. Senescence is a harmful process only when it runs awry, when senescent cells accumulate over time. Senescent cells are constantly created in a youthful metabolism, and serve useful purposes in suppression of cancer, wound healing, and other processes. “
 

so, as with many things in medicine, just because a little is good does not mean more is better. And even if more is better, we don’t know how much more yet.

Robert Olin "i guess I'm in a hurry" Best anti aging forum line ever! I am so there too.

Van Thanks for the list. I would be careful of the doxycycline. It has side some side effects.

From Podiatry Today:

"Researchers have now shown fluoroquinolones triple the risk of tendon rupture and the risks increase with age as well. Over the years, there have been increased reports of tendon rupture and tendinitis with other antibiotics, such as tetracyclines, doxycycline and macrolides (i.e. azithromycin)."

My dad had bad tendon issues with it. Some people will have tendons snap after taking it, though that was for antibiotic dosing. Just want people to know.

Van 

Other valuable drugs: Statins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inwfSkSGvQw 

Enjoy your post Van, they are always very useful. If it's not too much trouble when you get a chance take a look at this video from Dr. David Diamond PHD and post a comment if you don't mind. I'd like to hear your take..

Gary Gilley Anyone taking or considering taking statins may want to check-out below site, with negative side effects:

https://spacedoc.com/

One alternative is to take Red Yeast Rice (RYR) from which the Rx statin was developed.

Joe smith rapa is not very toxic at all - people have tried to OD on it with 100 mg and nothing happened

Paul Beauchemin Well, temporary spike in the cholesterol happened in the case you brought up. Basically, young transplant patient tried to kill herself.  That said I do agree that real Rapa (I don't know about that stuff some of people on this forum buy from websites in India or China, etc.) is not very toxic. I wouldn't take it myself otherwise.  That said my sides are real and not imagined. I'm saying that potent drugs have interactions and you need to test them on monkeys first. For instance, Rapa makes it already harder for me to heal quickly. Senolytics remove senescent cells interfering with healing when you take them. Taken together it may overwhelm the system and you may be then walking around scaring people like Dr Peter Attiya does by opening his mouth and showing what Rapa did too him.  So in the summary could you make your point clearer as I'm not getting why you are bringing Rapa lack of toxicity up? (I assume that you are not just trying to dismiss my first-hand experience but trying to say something else?)
 

Joe smith you do know that rapamycin has been taken in daily doses higher than your once per week dose in transplant patients for 2 decades with no issues?

Joe smith Statins save lives my reducing the soft plaque in arteries that break away and cause cloths which cause heart attacks, and strokes         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilu-TiWMmLM

Van This video from Dr Brewer is about CIMT testing and plaque/calcium in the arteries and not on the treatment and whether statins OVERALL reduce mortality risk. And yes, I respect Dr. Brewer and it is a good video and yes let’s get CIMT tested. Now, the argument I’m making about the statins goes like this. I'm not at all saying that in all people with atherosclerosis high ldl-c statins are useless. Not at all! What I'm saying is 1) Not all people with high ldl have or will get atherosclerosis. Hence, CIMT test is important to really diagnose 2) If advanced lipid test shows the issue and CIMT indicates problem, then sure take statins. Your case most likely will benefit from them. However, in a subset of such cases, statins won't help much due to the fact that they only lower your overall level of ldl-c. They do nothing for the LDL-c type, you don’t get more larger LDL-cs and fewer smaller LDL-cs with statins. So even though they reduce overall count, you can still get heart attack even with your lowered ldl.  In some cases, PKCS9 inhibitors may be smarter way to go or need to be combined with statins 3) Going back to calcium in your arteries sometimes little K2 can help too. So in summary 1) I’m not condemning statins just pointing pout limitations and the fact that we need better more targeted drugs to save even more lives.  2) If we are going to be taking that drug cocktail for anti-aging and taxing our liver, do statins really make sense in otherwise healthy person- e.g. male with 80 HDL and 100 triglycerides?  Or should we be taking something else? I’m thinking let’s look for something better/different in our drug cocktail. That said, I’m open to data driven science discussion and changing my mind.

Joe smith You stated:  "This video from Dr Brewer is about CIMT testing and plaque/calcium in the arteries and not on the treatment and whether statins OVERALL reduce mortality risk."

  Here is the video where the trial had to be stopped because there was a 50% reduction in CV events when on Crestor.  Very large trial 17,000+.  90% of all CV events are caused by inflammation which causes the formation of "hot plaque" ie. soft plaque, which will cause the formation of blood clots when it comes in contact with blood stream in artery.  A simple and non-evasive CIMT will tell you if you have soft plaque or not, and if so, you have inflammation, and then you start Crestor, 5 mg. or less to reduce inflammation and reverse that plaque build up. (Dr. Brewer is poster boy for this reversal)  Easy to follow up with another CIMT to judge results.  Not all statins are same in reducing inflammation, low dose Crestor is best.  High statin dose is not needed unless very high LDL of 200+   You are basically treating inflammation, not trying to lower LDL. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWs30V3gDNQ

Van Hi Van/ Joe/others

Crestor is interesting. Here is another study:

https://www.birminghammedicalnews.com/news.php?viewStory=362
it was a 40mg dose.

I have been on Lipitor/Atorvastatin for 19 years (now 69),  10mg then 20mg. Lost ALL my weight slowly over that time and controlled my diet to manage adult diabetes. And ate super heart healthy for Last 15+ years. Excellent blood work etc.
Last month I was not feeling right. Went to ER. I now have 2 stints. I had 95 and 90% blockages. Docs said I had bad genes. 

Anyway, plaque buildup happens, often in spite of all the healthy things we talk about. More so in men.

Crestor is very interesting to me and I’m pushing my cardio doc to switch me over from the current 40 mg dose of a Lipitor. this change may have a much greater impact on life extension than many others, for me.

Although ldl/hdl was excellent, I just do not see that Lipitor/statin was doing much to reduce My plaque or its buildup. I do not see the benefit in continuing it. 

Your thoughts?

BobM Please see my other post recent post on the subject. I'd advise that you reach out to Tom Dayspring ASAP. You need solid cardiologist (i'm not) with experience and wisdom to guide you and not somebody blaming "your bad genes" - his contact https://www.doximity.com/pub/thomas-dayspring-md

Caveat: I don't know Tom Dayspring but I listened to his super technical four episodes and if I were you I would call him ASAP. Second opinion can't hurt.

Good Luck and Get well!

BobM You might want to take these 2 supplements:
1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566462/
In contrast, vitamin K2 is associated with the inhibition of arterial calcification and arterial stiffening. An adequate intake of vitamin K2 has been shown to lower the risk of vascular damage because it activates matrix GLA protein (MGP), which inhibits the deposits of calcium on the walls. Vitamin K, particularly as vitamin K2, is nearly nonexistent in junk food, with little being consumed even in a healthy Western diet. Vitamin K deficiency results in inadequate activation of MGP, which greatly impairs the process of calcium removal and increases the risk of calcification of the blood vessels.
2. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22260513/
Nitric oxide (NO) has led a revolution in physiology and pharmacology research during the last two decades. This labile molecule plays an important role in many functions in the body regulating vasodilatation, blood flow, mitochondrial respiration and platelet function. Currently, it is known that NO synthesis occurs via at least two physiological pathways: NO synthase (NOS) dependent and NOS independent. In the former, L-arginine is the main precursor. It is widely recognized that this amino acid is oxidized to NO by the action of the NOS enzymes. Additionally, L-citrulline has been indicated to be a secondary NO donor in the NOS-dependent pathway, since it can be converted to L-arginine.

What you need to do is intermittent fasting. That is to say, have an early dinner and late breakfast with nothing between dinner and breakfast.

All the best.
 

BobM   You have really done a lot of things correctly.  Lost weight.  If you blood glucose and insulin resistance is good, then your main problem in my mind is the inflammation in your arteries, and  the genetic factor.  Your doctor put you on the wrong statin, Lipitor very good at reducing LDL, but not so good at reducing inflammation.  If I were you, I would switch to Crestor 5 mg. daily for 3 months then have a CMIT done at once to see a base line, and then another to check if it is working.  ( CMIT will measure your calcified plaque diameter in your artery walls, as well as looking for soft plaque.  If working could possibly lower the dose, if not then up dose. 

I would not put much faith in your Doctor, this is a fatal mistake on his part to not know about arterial inflammation. (you have stents because of inaccurate treatment)  Should have ordered CMIT as a screening tool, and  a DNA test for genetic screening.  You need a doctor such as Ford Brewer who specializes in Preventive Medicine, and teaches it to other Doc's.  Dr. Brewer has many video's and will also hold an examination of you on line or in his office, and write Rx's.  Licensed in 46 states.  He is up on treating for people like you that have a genetic problem, because he also has bad genes.  I believe you would also  benefit from Rapamycin at your age, you have to slow down the ageing process, and the best way to do that is Mtor inhibition.  At 74 yo, I had a CIMT yesterday, and I have the arteries of a 65 yo,  no soft plaque and calcified plaque was below average.  I take 5 mg crestor daily.   Dr. Brewer has some of his patients on 2.5 mg Crestor 3 X week.

Here is a video specifically talking about Lipitor, and other Statins.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp9nvc65HiQ

Good Luck!

BobM Bob, forgot to include this video from Dr. Brewer on the "heart attack gene"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJrltDmVPuE

Joe smith You are right Joe, Dr. Brewer does not prescribe statins to anyone who does not have inflammation in there body, and evidence of disease and when he does it is usually a very low dose.   Everyone has inflammation in the body, just a matter of degree.  The older you get the more  build of plaque in your arteries.  Babies have plaque in there arteries, and it builds up slowly throughout a persons lifetime.  Because ultrasound is safe, they have scanned children also.   And if you are one of the very few people who can control there weight, exercise properly, have good genetics  then you probably do not need a statin, until your older.   But most of the people on this site are older, and part of the aging process is inflammation.  We have 2 test to measure it.  There are a few people with certain genetic profiles that are unaware of there problem.   CIMT, and urinalysis of the microalbumin/creatine ratio.  Both measure inflammation.  Both are screening tools, but you can also follow your progress on follow up tests.  These tests are non invasive so safe to use.   Inflammation is not localized, it is everywhere. The main driver is insulin resistance.   If you have a problem in your kidneys, you will also have it in your cardio vascular system in the arteries.  The arteries have a Medial layer which is layer that separates the artery wall from the lumen where the blood flows.  Inflammation attacks the Medial layer of the arteries  in the kidney's as well as the arteries throughout the body including the one's supplying blood to the heart.  So two of the main diseases afflicting older people are these two, and you have 2 save and relative inexpensive tests that will let you know where you stand.  At that point you can make a decision how to attack the problem or not.

Van Isn't that scary about even children and young men having plaque build up? I blame it on our misguided dietary guidelines that got perverted by the processed food industry and lead us to replace fats and proteins (including healthy ones) with processed carbs (eggs-->cocoa puffs.) Statins are proven to work. Stats show that the number of infarctions is highly reduced nowadays from the pre-statin area. And no it is not due to power and superior taste of cocoa puffs. And yes actually people should get tested and based on the outcome decision needs to be made made jointly with physician on how to proceed. So in summary I'm all for the test based medicine and less is more approach. 

Joe smith not sure what you base your statement on "statins are proven to work"

All the research I've done shows that of 100 people that take statins only one will have a lower risk of a cardio event. No effect for the other 99. They cause lots of muscle problems and on balance don't look like useful drugs to me

Paul Beauchemin Hey Paul, I'm basing it on guidance opinion of of American College of Cardiology supported  by substantial meta study: https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2016/11/17/09/03/summarizing-the-current-state-and-evidence-on-efficacy-and-safety-of-statin-therapy

"In a meta-analysis of 27 randomized trials and 174,000 participants, for every ~40 mg/dL LDL-C reduction with statin therapy, the relative risk of major adverse cardiovascular events is reduced by ~20-25%, and all-cause mortality is reduced by 10%. More intense statin regimens yield a 15% further proportional reduction in major adverse cardiovascular events compared to less intense regimens."

Now if you want more color and hear it front the frontlines and get balanced view then check out what Thomas Dayspring, M.D., FACP, FNLA, a world-renowned expert in lipidology said over the course of 4 episodes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ6X81Gn83Y He actually practiced in the seventies and saw what went on in the hospitals then.  He provides extremely balanced view where he advocates for small statins + PKCS#9 inhibitors, the view I share. You know no megadoses and being very cautious. 

I don't want to preach; but, in summary when you make major treatment decisions/statements/give advice make sure that it is data driven and let meta studies like Cochrane review or equivalent guide you. 

Joe smith  @BobM @Gary_Gilley @Paul_Beauchemin @Van This thread is for the use of fiseting for clearance of senescent cells. If you guys want to talk statins, or rapamycin, or sourcing for dasatinib, or anything else, will you please start a new thread for that purpose instead of cluttering up this one with extraneous discussion (and sending everyone on the thread an alert each time)?

Paul Beauchemin Paul here is a video about the Jupiter study on "statins are proven to work", but on inflammation not on LDL lowering effect although they do both.  It is the inflammation that kills most people and not usually high LDL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWs30V3gDNQ

Joe smith Unfortunately most doc's are trained to treat disease instead of preventing it, and the consequences for many patients is not good.

Joe smith Joe, that is a very strange thing to say to fairy8i8. You are giving her permission to use fisetin but then you insist she provides detailed records.  Do you happen to be a politician or something. You seem to like to control others and make decisions for complete strangers for "their own good"

Can you clarify who are you and why you think it is ok to decide things for other people?

Joe smith I find your point interesting. Many people into life/health span extension are also trying other pathways/modalities to address this issue. Treating senescence is just one "pillar" of a strategy. Regeneration is just as important...that is where exosomes, peptiedes, red light therapy etc. come into the picture.

@fairy818

Need Help What was your dose and ingestion method? What else do you take?

Dan Nave 

Hi! I have this link to a paper from 2010 that discuss how to Improv the oral bioavailability of beneficial polyphenols through designed synergies. it is a general paper and not specifically about fisetin. But personally Learned a few things from it. Curcumin is a BCRP inhibitor which also goes for Quercetin. But I don’t have any specific paper about fisetin.  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820202/

I take curcumin a few hours after the Senolytic agent.

Staffan Olsson I have been taking Quercetin along with Fisetin...  when I do my senolytics... should I not combine them? 

@garland  Metabolism is a very complex process and at this stage it is not possible at this stage to say something certain about how fisetin and quercetin influence each others biological actions when they are co-consumed.  But so far the science regarding quercetin seam to favor co-consumption with other substances. if the question is to increase the senolytic effect of fisetin I find that co-consumption with piperine/black pepper is a safer bet.

But then again one has to be humble about this. There are many here who co-consume fisetin with quercetin and report positive effects.

Staffan Olsson Thanks.... am doing bio-peperine with it and it seems to help... 

garland The question here was whether to take Curcumin and Quercetin together.  My feeling is *no* for C + Q, or C + F.

I would take Quercetin together with Fisetin  though.

Michael Avenoso I am trying 10 tomorrow to get a dose that seems close to Mayos... I always do at least 2300 mgs when I do senelytics every 2 or 3 weeks. I the past I mixed the Fisetin with olive oil and took it with bioperine pepper. I also took Quercitin and 100 mgs of Dasatinib. The Quercetin was the highly absorbable form from LE> I also took Senolytic Activator from LE each day.  So I am excited to try the new formulation of Fisetin out to see if I notice any difference with it. After all Fisetin is supposed to be the most powerful of them all. I notice all kinds of good effects at high doses from what I did in the past. I am more limber and get in yoga positions i could not get into for years. I have no pain in my body... I feel more clear and alive for sure. Kiind of high on life.... high doses are where it is at if you are not allergic and always talk to your doctor first> I would not do this unless you are under doctors care. 

Michael Avenoso They don't present any studies showing this improved absorption; I would phone them and ask them for their evidence before taking this statement at face value. JGC 's post above seems to suggest they're just guessing based on a rodent study involving curcumin, not fisetin. In any case, even if it really has 25 times availability, it's more than 25 times more expensive per milligram, so not really an advantage.

JGC Hm. It'd be great if you could track this down...

Iðunn Ah: I see you posted it here. Thanks, JGC .

garland Sounds like strong effect.  Did you take fisetin alone or did you take it with quercetin?

Staffan Olsson  see below for a report of my latest experiences. I had a difficult time  sleeping last night ... I take it with Quercetin, Dasatinib and Senoytic activator from LE..with bio peperine .... awesome combo feel alive but it is intense so be careful when you are starting out with Bio Fisetin

Supplement Facts

Dan Nave Maybe but it would  be a totally blind experiment... at least with the LE mixture they did some research on it. I also include Bio-Perine with the mixture of Bio-fisetin.... that may help it get into the blood stream as well. But at 10 dollars a bottle with 3 doses per bottle why take a chance. I will be taking 10 capsules for 3 days equivalent to 2000 mg per day... Word to the warning the Bio-fisetin is far more powerful then the regular one according to my experience. So go slow... I started at 8 capsules but i have done these probably close to 15 times in past year and a half... I mix it with 100mgs of Dasatinib and Quercetin..... So if I was starting new I would probably just do 2 or 3 per days to see how I adjust... then the second time increase slightly. 

garland I'd be more concerned with the Dasatinib.  Anything you do that increases the bioavailability of the polyphenols, including taking more of them, increases the bioavailability of Dasatinib, as they act like CYP3A4 inhibitors themselves.  

"Dasatinib is a CYP3A4 substrate. Concomitant use of SPRYCEL and drugs that inhibit CYP3A4  may increase exposure to dasatinib and should be avoided."

"Quercetin, a flavonoid, is an inhibitor of P-glycoprotein-mediated efflux transport, and its oxidative metabolism is catalyzed by CYP enzymes. ... Quercetin inhibited CYP3A4 enzyme activity in a concentration-dependent manner with a 50% inhibition concentration (IC(50)) of 1.97 μM."

" In summary, we showed that piperine inhibits both the drug transporter P-glycoprotein and the major drug-metabolizing enzyme CYP3A4."

etc...

Dan Nave thanks for the heads up... . However i wonder about that specifically with the Quercetin. I know last year LE suggested heavy doses of Dasatinib (225 mgs) along with heavy doses of Quercetin (2200 mgs).... once a week for 2 weeks to be repeated every 3 to 6 months. I have seen many research studies that have found that Quercetin works much better with Dasatinib then without it. And the combination is better then isolating them. I decided once i was able to finally get DASA to limit it to 3 days of 100 mgs of it because I looked at the research on DASA and found that the 100 mg dose once a day had far less side effects then 200 mgs a day. I am following doctor Green from New York protocol with this combination. Plus I stay away from this for a few weeks. So maybe once every 3 weeks I do this. There is too many unknowns here about Fisetin. Maybe one should not mix it with Quercetin at all. Who knows. What we do know is that researchers have found that Fisetin appears to be the best flavonoid for Senyletics so far.  And I do know that the Quercetin/Dasatinib is the most researched.... so there is something to that combination as well and it is a very powerful combo. By the way I notice that you had quotes around your post ... were you quoting from some source? if so what was the source. I am not disagreeing with you and perhaps one solution is to get rid of Peperine. I added that last year to help absorb fisetin but now with BioFisetin i do not think it is so necessary. 

garland Anything that is in quotes is quoted.  You can take a unique portion of the quote or all of it and do a Google search to get the source.  I have stopped including urls as it is easy enough for you to Google it if you want to.

I am not overly concerned with Quercetin or Fisetin as being a problem.  I am concerned with Dasatinib.  If you take Dasatanib with a lot of these substances over and above what has been used in the trials, you are potentiating the Dasatinib, and that could be a problem.  That is the point that I am trying to make.

Dan Nave Ok now I see what you are saying... but does it make it that much more potent then 100 mgs? I will check out the quotes and see what they are saying.  Again LE had much higher doses that I was using so I felt safe with this dose especially after  reading about the research on Dasatinib which showed the safety of 100mgs of Dasa... however it potency increases dramatically then yes it can be an issue... thanks

Dan Nave  I guess I am confused as to the amount of  DASA to use  now... I had thought that the LE people researched this. Sounds like I should use closer to 50 mg of Dasa when i use the flavonoids... I saw some substances would increase DASA by four or 5 times.... wow.... which researchers should I look at or should I take it at different times. But what about all that research that shows that Dasa and Quercetin should be taken together...

Dan Nave  Hello DAN....

I checked out some of the things that you mentioned. The link below summaries all the research as of May 20th this year . It seems that most studies looked at 50 or 100 mgs of Dasatinib with Quercetin for either 1 day or 3 days or 5 days.  The quercetin is usually heavily dosed. I did not see any studies mixed with Quercetin and Fisetin together however. I think the peperine is something that may put this over the limit, and you maybe correct that the Fisetin may also take this over the limit. The good new is that in none of these studies where Quercetin is combined with Dasatinib. were there any negative side effects related to Dasatinib. I do know one thing that I am feeling better and better and more strong and alive and mentally aware. Next year according to LE they are going to be giving us some new senolytics that we all are looking forward to. So I hope to replace the Dasa with something better. I think that using every 3 weeks or so seems to be canceling out whatever possible negative effects.  You are right they suggest 100 mgs not 200 mgs because side effects go down appreciably with 100mgs a day. So not sure what this means.... so for sure I am getting rid of the Peperine. 

garland 

https://brain.forever-healthy.org/display/EN/Dasatinib+and+Quercetin+Senolytic+Therapy

garland The clinical studies I saw for D+Q used from 50 to 100 mg of Dasatinib with about 1000 mg of Quercetin a day.  One of the studies divided up the Quercetin into 2 doses per day.  Taken for either 2 or 3 days.   I think this is realistic for average weighted people.  In my opinion, there should be no attempt to potentiate the D or Q in this protocol. 

When I take Fisetin and Quercetin I take 1000 mg each and potentiate the hell out of it by mixing it with oil, including Bioperine, and taking it on an empty stomach.  Fisetin could go up to 1500 mg if you are heavier, or if you want a heavier dose.  I take this for 3 days.  I find that one feels achy, headachy, under the weather for about a week to a week and a half.  After that one feels better than the baseline. This effect seemed to be lasting.  On the other hand, some people report absolutely no negative or positive effects.  Two other people here have done this, one falls into the former category and one into the latter.  

Dan Nave thanks I have decided to not use the pepper and may take 50mg of dasatinib

Dan Nave I meant that I will take Dasatinib of 50 mgs in the middle of the three day run thanks to your warnings. Still take it 100 first day and last. I also did the same procedure as yours with Fisetin and the Quercetin with Peperine mixed with OIL.. And I also had some down days but really those have become less and less. Usually just the first day or two.  Compared to the positive changes I get far more of those now.  I have done Fisetin regularly for months now usually every 3 weeks and sometimes 2 weeks. I have added the Dasatinib in the past 3 months and again the first few times I did it I had more negative then I do now.

There have been so many positive changes ... My prostate problems are far less. Also I am far more limber for yoga and have more energy and clarity of mind. It is almost like I am high in non drug way. So count me as someone who has had very favorable results. I have done Fisetin maybe 15 or more times with Quercitin and 

garland Tnx for that dasatinib / quercetin  risk assessment meta study.   Interesting risks of both.  Q may enhance cancer growth, D has water on the lung etc sides.   Any longer term taker of D+Q have comments re their more negative side effects?  I've read re feeling bad as a potential.

Another issue in play with listing luekemia study side effects is they take D continuously  (?) and may be higher doses (?).  This senolytic oriented meta study didnt list the doses and duration from the studies they pulled the side effects from.

Curtis Smith It says Q could be preventative, but in other studies that it could enhance tumorigenesis. Quercetin has been listed by many doctors as a possible prophylactic for Covid-19, but maybe it's not a good idea

JGC What do you think about mixing regular fisetin with, say, Guar Gum which is a galactomannan containing gum to simulate the Bio-Fisetin?  Or are they doing some special process to combine them?

JGC Thanks for this.   I spoke out against senolytics previously but I've been trying novusetin and just ordered Bio-Fisetin to try.

JGC Thanks JGC!

JGC My first session of 3 days was 1.5 grams fisetin in olive oil, somewhat similar to your technique  a month ago.  I noticed nothing either good or bad.  My second session, just finished, was mixing 1.5 grams with real butter (no salt) and blending it into my keto coffee.  It mixed well and tasted fine, but no side effects either good or bad this session either.  Any thoughts on the use of butter?

Staffan Olsson

regarding the above mentioned product it is important to read their webpage. The research that has been done on sublingual liposomal fisetin is done by comparing administration of intravenous and intraperitoneal free fisetin VS administration of intravenous and intraperitoneal liposomal fisetin.

The bioavailability study does not include the oral route.  That said I still have an interest in the product.

Staffan Olsson Ding ding! There's a lot of sleight of hand in this company's marketing.

Staffan Olsson As a livestock producer I use several medications off label and oral dosing of an injectable is VERY common. I will be looking into this product as well. For now I chew it up (on buttered toast) and swallow my fisetin. 

garland No, it doesnt interfere with the effects of fisetin, that is not the concern. Rapamycin can suppress sasp like fisetin so you wouldnt be able to tell if it is the fisetin reducing sasp or the rapamycin.

Fred Cloud wow that makes sense

garland That doesn't necessarily follow. They may be concerned that a beneficial effect of rapamycin (Sirolimus) may be mistaken for a beneficial effect of fisetin.

Iðunn yeah, because rapamycin can suppress senescent cell sasp like fisetin, which is what I said.