NAD+ Patches

I recently purchased NAD+ from the NAD treatment center in San Diego.  I purchased the NAD+ patches, 6 each @ 400mg each.  The patches are a electrophoresis type patch that uses a battery to drive the NAD+ into the skin. The six patches were $300.00. I spoke with Jennifer ( 944-623-7587 ext. 5) at the center who arranged telephone consultation with Dr. Milgram.  The product was fulfilled by Archway Apothecary in Covington, La.  I also purchased a NAD+ nasal spray which the Doc said goes directly to the brain.  To date I have used three patches and continue to daily take NR.  After completing the patches I will post my results/impressions.

Best,

David Michel

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  • Thanks David! Good info! I'll be trying the patches also! I'm 74 w/ two bad knees and foot pain so I need to get the body in better shape before I try stem cell therapy. My photo is on Facebook, the Dennis Fink in Reading, Pa.

    Reply Like 1
      • woody928
      • woody928
      • 1 mth ago
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      Dennis   Dennis, please post your results from the patches. 

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      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 1 mth ago
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      woody928 Will do, might be a week or two. Looking for decent deal without $350 consult fee.

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      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 1 mth ago
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      woody928 I just wrote a bad review on Amazon on the Patch MD Anti-Aging Patches I'm trying since I had the same problem with some of them not sticking as another reviewer had and they don't have a specific amount of NAD or precursor anyway. I did find a $25 patch w/ 250 mg NAD by Nutri-patch called an Antioxidant patch on Amazon or their website ( www.nutri-patch.com ), that I ordered and will try.

      Reply Like
      • woody928
      • woody928
      • 1 mth ago
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      Dennis Thanks for the update Dennis, this the the price quote I got for the spray: 

      The nasal spray prices are as follows:

      1. 100mg/ml = $58.00
      2. 200mg/ml = $62.00
      3. 300mg/ml = $65.00

      I hope this helps!

      Thank you,

      Lindsey H., PharmD

      Archway Apothecary

      I'm going to get in touch with Life Extension and request that they look into supplying the patches, I think they would at least sell a reliable product. Also, I'm going to contact the local IV hydration clinic and request that they consider nad+ drip.

      I just recently read about  nad+  and ordered the 250mg capsules, of course these are over $1 ea., and It's debatable if ANY nad+ is being absorbed through the intestine. I'm 57 and figure I might as well take the chance until a better option is available.  

      Reply Like 1
      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 1 mth ago
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      woody928 Thanks for the info! I recall seeing some test results that the nicotinamide riboside that I am using (250mg x 3/d) raises NAD levels 60% which might be enough at your age but by age 74 (me) one might benefit more from a 100-500% increase, thus the infusions/patches/nasal spray. I'm not sure I've seen the $1 NAD caps you are referring to? Are they nr?

      Reply Like
      • djmichel
      • CDR Phx
      • djmichel
      • 1 mth ago
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      Dennis   Who charges a 350 consult fee?  I spoke with the Doc at the nad treatment center for free?

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      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 1 mth ago
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      David Michel I don't recall where I saw the $350 fee now David, I thought it was on this forum.

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      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 1 mth ago
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      Just talked to Archway Apothecary (985 801 0800) and they were very helpful! I didn't realize that one needs a prescription for all forms of their NAD "help" (nasal spray, subcutaneous, sublingual, even their patch) except of course the supplements!

      Reply Like 1
      • woody928
      • woody928
      • 1 mth ago
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      Dennis Fink yes, nr nad+ from life ext foundation. 30 250mg @ 36$

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  • David, Let us know your results.

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  • First, when you purchase from the nad+ treatment center in San Diego, there is a no cost telephone consultation with their Doctor. I considered the cost of approx 300 dollars for six treatment patches of 400mg each.  Being in great shape and in my second year of taking Rapamycin, I have not observed any definable results from the  NAD+ patches.I have also been taking NAD 250mg caps for a year or so.  I am Seventy Six years old and have been heavily involved with life extension since 1980.   The photo I posted here was taken last year.  BTW the only negative effect from using the patches is some irritation at the site where the patch was applied.  For several days I have a mild itchy arm where the patch was.

    Reply Like 2
      • Rudi Hoffman
      • World's Leading Cryonics Funder
      • Rudi
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      David Michel  

      David Michel...I think you look truly amazing in your posted picture.   When I looked at that picture, I thought, "This guy looks to be a fairly fit guy in his mid 50s!"  Congratulations, and I glad that the externals as well as the internal metrics of antiaging science seem to be working for you. 
      Rudi Hoffman

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  • David, how long do you keep the patches on? For how long are they deemed effective?

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      • djmichel
      • CDR Phx
      • djmichel
      • 1 mth ago
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      I keep the patches on for eight hours.  Of critical importance is when you buy the patches you have to load the NAD+ onto the patch yourself.  The NAD+ is supplied in a separate drop type bottle.  Also the patches are sticky aggressive and you have to be very careful handling them.  I put a patch on a flat surface and carefully remove the protective paper being careful not to touch the adhesive as it is very very aggressive and will stick to anything.  I actually use a toothpick to hold the patch steady while I remove the two side of the paper.  Also when sticking the patch to your arm hold the whole patch in your open hand and apply.  It sticks very aggressively to the skin. At the end of eight hours I soak the patch for a few minutes with warm water as it does not want to come off.  

      Reply Like 2
  • Received and am trying the second (of 30) "NUTRI-PATCH Antioxidant Topical Nutrient Skin Patches". They were $25 (Amazon) and they claim 250 mg NAD! I don't expect to notice anything having been on rapamycin for over a year like David and Metformin for the same time period, plus NR, etc.! Not sure why the patches David is trying require a prescription and these don't? Anyone know? His may work better w/ the added battery?

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  • Dennis,  I check the Amazon site for this product.  I question how effective it is, the NAD in the patch appears to be the same product that is in the NR capsules, but is not NAD+.  The problem being is that at our age we probably only have a small percentage of NAD+ in our bodies, so taking NR while raising NAD+ levels somewhat but it does not raise it enough to put the levels back to a meaningful level.  Only taking actual NAD+ will do so.  Therefore the current question is IV rather than patches the only way to raise the levels NAD+.  According to a talk given by Bill Faloon, there are current studies underway that will answer this question.  The patches that are used to drive NAD+ into the skin are electrophoresis patches.  I doubt that just a plain patch will do much.

    Reply Like
      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 1 mth ago
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      David Michel Thanks David! Great info! I'll likely call the NAD center tomorrow and try their patches. Was wondering why the electrophoresis. I ordered the NADH sublingual tabs through LEF.

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  • At least the Nutri-patches I got (antioxidant w/250mg NAD) are working properly and they are only ~$20 if you subscribe monthly so they beat PatchMD. I guess I'll try the sublingual NADH that LEF carries also, it's only 20 mg. but if it ups NAD levels I'd rather do that than even more expensive IV's (the NADH is $50/month). David M is your daily supplement/lifestyle regimen on the Web anywhere? I would like to compare since you look at least a decade younger than your photo! I've only been doing this for a year or so, so many years of way too much sugar, processed crap, etc.

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  • Just saw a great article on research at Penn State using chewing gum to deliver vitamins ( https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-10-gum-effective-vitamins.html#nRlv ). Sounds like what we need for getting NAD levels up in us older types!

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  • I caught Bill Faloon in a recent talk saying offhand that they (Life Extension?) were investigating whether NAD patches were as effective as IV drips for older individuals who need more intensive treatment. His comment was that they would be reporting soon on that. He'll be talking in early Nov at his Church Of Perpetual Life YouTube channel, perhaps he'll give us an update on that. 

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj0MbRW2Muk

     

    Patches are cheaper and easier than drips, if say Life Extension sold them I'd prefer taking that approach, even though I have a local clinic that will do a NAD drip for me. 

    Reply Like 2
      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 1 mth ago
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      Dan Mc  I just tried my first sublingual NMN lozenge (ProHealth 60x125 mg NMN, NAD precursor, $45) so we seem to have many options other than too expensive IV's as long as they do the job! Trying LEF NADH lozenges also. Looking for info comparing benefits of patches, nasal spray, lozenges!

      Dan Mc "Alive by Nature" carries NAD powder for sublingual use - "PURE NAD+ Powder – 12 Grams Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide $64.95". It seems we have a multitude of ways to go other than expensive electrophoresis patches and IV's if we can determine that they work as well! I have read that NAD itself is not very bioavailable so if anyone sees good research in this area let me know.

      Alive by Nature says:

      "NAD+ crosses the blood brain barrier to raise NAD+ levels in the hypothalamus which activates:

      • Mood – Activates Neurotransmitters to enhance sense of well-being
      • Increased Energy Expediture
      • Decreased Appetite

      This PURE NAD+ powder can be used sublingually (under the tongue) so it is absorbed directly to the bloodstream and is readily available to cells throughout the body.

       

      Reply Like 2
      • DanMcL
      • skipping my funeral
      • danmc
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      Dennis Fink Thanks for the information. Sounds like good options, of course the problem is we don't know if any of the actually raise levels better than the oral pills do, mainly because there isn't an easy blood test you can take yet. My wife and I are taking 250mg orally and are having the improved sleep benefit, but in our early 50's we don't know what steps we should take. There's an IV clinic locally that indicated they could do NAD+ for me, but I don't know, is that necessary? If LifeExtension determines that patches (or sublingual ...) work as or nearly as well as oral then I'll sign up. 

      Reply Like 1
      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 1 mth ago
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      Dan Mc Right! I wouldn't think IV would be needed at your age. I can see Bill Faloon trying it in his 60's and I'm 74 so I doubt the 500-750 mg of NR is doing enough for me, thus the experimenting w/ lozenges and patches. Hoping I can get a lab test soon.

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      • DanMcL
      • skipping my funeral
      • danmc
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      Dennis Fink Thanks, yeah that's what I would think also, but Bill has mentioned "over 50" several times in this context in videos. Don't know, but anyhow we've been at this longevity game for 30 years so our stats are good so taking it slowly would seem to not be a bad approach. 

      I've been meaning to ask BrianMDelaney  about this, I think I saw a YouTube video of him getting the drip and we seem about the same age. Brian any thoughts on a good age to start the drip (I think Brian is traveling so might be a while before he comes back)? 

      Reply Like 1
      • Kerry
      • Kerry
      • 1 mth ago
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      Dennis Fink I just finished last week with 5 IV NAD+ infusions. I did six patches; two weeks later I did two IV's; had to travel for five days so I did a patch each day, and then finished with 3 IV's. That was last Fri. Today was a great day but the jury is still out. I did have three glutathione IV's which was the clinic's standard practice. Dan Mc

      Dennis Fink Dan Mc  I did 500 mg/day of the LEF NR for over a year with no noticeable effects

      Reply Like 2
      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 1 mth ago
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      Kerry I can't really identify any results from the patches since I use one during the day time and another at night and doing too many other things. As I mentioned elsewhere, the sublingual NMN seems to be showing the most evidence of benefit so far (Longecity).

      Reply Like
      • Don
      • Don
      • 1 mth ago
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      Dennis Fink Their price is now $69.99, plus shipping, plus TAXES. The total cost is over $80. Who charges taxes for supplements or medications? I'm looking for another source. 

      Reply Like
  • Good article at (ttps://mehdium.com/neodotlife/the-anti-aging-habits-of-longevity-experts-b2f3997f3091) describing David Sinclair's use of NMN for his own anti-aging battle (and others).

    Reply Like 1
      • DanMcL
      • skipping my funeral
      • danmc
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      Dennis Fink Here's a link that works

      I've seen Aubrey and Judy talk about their approach, or lack, before. I sometimes wonder if they really understand the differences between health span, mean or median life span, and maximum life span. Aubrey in particular seems to think "well since nothing I can do will increase (maximum) life span I won't do anything", without understanding that what we can individually do now can make an enormous difference in the other two. 

      To illustrate, not smoking won't increase the maximum life span of humanity, but it will greatly increase the median lifespan and the health span. So take any particular smoking individual, but choosing not too they could live an extra 30 years (still within the 120 year maximum span) in better health. That's huge!

      Likewise alcohol is a poison - the science is very clear on that now, yet they both drink. OK that might not shave much off their own health or life span, or it might, especially when combined with other things they're doing or not doing. 

      Reply Like 1
      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 1 mth ago
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      Dan Mc Agree Dan! I think David Sinclair is being a bit smarter than Aubrey at least when it comes to anti-aging supplement usage. I think Aubrey said his wife is 19 years his senior, I wonder if she uses anything. Surely she does!

      Reply Like
      • djmichel
      • CDR Phx
      • djmichel
      • 1 mth ago
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      Dennis Fink  Here is another interesting article from the NY Times on Life extension:

      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/09/opinion/sunday/longevity-pritikin-atkins.html

      Reply Like 3
      • DanMcL
      • skipping my funeral
      • danmc
      • 1 mth ago
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      Not important but I think Aubrey and his wife separated and he's with somebody younger now. 

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      • DanMcL
      • skipping my funeral
      • danmc
      • 1 mth ago
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       Dennis Fink Not bad, but of course in a field rapidly changing (non linearly) it doesn't tell you much to use the previous researchers as case studies. We were just getting our feet wet back then with decades between any energy being put into research efforts. Today there are new companies and projects popping up daily. In other words the rate of change of attention to longevity has been proceeding exponentially (or some other non linear variant) 

      Reply Like 2
      • Rudi Hoffman
      • World's Leading Cryonics Funder
      • Rudi
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
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      David Michel 

       

      Interesting article in NY Times.  Antiaging gurus who die are a lesson in understanding that age reversal / attenuation is multifactorial and far from a hard science even now.   Something we all should consider with reference to the rationality of signing up for cryonics.

      I want to ask this forum about Deprenyl, which I started taking 5 mgs/day of last week, and is one of the first antiaging/brain enhancement molecules.   I remember reading a very compelling book, "A Remarkable Medicine has been Overlooked" several decades ago, and wanting to try Deprenyl.

      And now I find I can get it without a script and reasonably priced from International Antiaging Systems.  I am holding off on trying the Rapamycin I got from IAS because I don't want too many conflating variables going on at once.  

      So, in order to report/learn about Deprenyl in this forum, do I start a new thread, as this is a different topic than NAD+ supplementation/mechanics?

      Rudi Hoffman

      Reply Like 1
  • I live in  Houston. Does anyone know of a longevity or rapamycin groupe that meets in the Houston area?

    Reply Like
  • NAD can go with fisetin.  In Houston I found no health food stores that carry fisetin, but I was able to get sprouts to custom order it and will get a 2 month supply in 4 days. 

    Reply Like
      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 1 mth ago
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      are we there yet I have several different types of fisetin to choose from on Amazon but the concentrations are a guessing game for now! Since Dr. Green is impressed w/ it, I think it might be worth the cost.

      Reply Like
  • I purchase Trillium Fisetin from Amazon, 50 grams , provides 50 one gram servings.  Comes with a one gram spoon.  Cost is 50 dollars.  See link

    https://www.amazon.com/Fisetin-Supplement-Servings-Concentration-Available/dp/B07JR67V2Y/ref=sr_1_7?m=A23XIXJ22PNFQY&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1541249009&sr=1-7

    Reply Like 2
      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      David Michel I purchased two of the Trillium Fisetins (50g) also and will start tomorrow. Just finishing 4th Swanson bottle of 30x100mg since I took 10 caps on one test and 14 caps on a second test (senolytic) and 4 caps many days to keep foot pain reduced >50%! Likely to be some decent pain reliever in the Swanson fisetin bottles (likely fisetin)!

      Reply Like
  • Note: through my doctor I'm ordering the patches from Archway, when you get a prescription you need to specify what duration patches (4 hour or 8 hour) and number of packs (6 patches to a pack). 

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  • David Michel  I'll be getting the patches in a week or two, any other suggestions on use? Where on the arm do you put it, upper arm? How does the electrophoresis work, battery pack in the pocket?

    Reply Like 1
      • djmichel
      • CDR Phx
      • djmichel
      • 2 wk ago
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      Dan Mc  Dan, I alternate arms as the patch will cause some irritation on the arm.   I bought them through the company reference earlier.  I keep them on 8 hours, and I purchased a package of six patches.   Each patch has it's own battery.  The patches work by the NAD+ being driven into the body by the current flowing between the positive side of the patch( where the NAD+ is placed) and the negative side where the sterile water supplied with the patches is placed.  How much are you paying and did you have a prescription?

      Reply Like 1
      • DanMcL
      • skipping my funeral
      • danmc
      • 2 wk ago
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      David Michel Hi David, thanks that helps. I have a prescription I forwarded to Archway, but with the holidays they've been closed so will finalize the order on Monday. Two sets of six, I don't know the price yet but I believe it's around $320. Can't remember where I got that number from, might have been around the forums here or elsewhere. I'll update the forum with the price and results as they come in. 

      I'm also doing daily extensive biomarker testing + blood work so will monitor whether anything shows up in the results. 

      Reply Like 1
  • David Michel  Looks like the cost is around the $99/6 I heard originally. I'm getting them this week (Archway is great to work with) and will update on how it goes. 

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  • OK I got the patches and will start today. Some notes ...

     

    • Yes the cost is under $100/6
    • The patches come in a 4 hour and 8 hour, I chose 8 hour, the instructions note that 8 will deliver full dose for most people but 12 hours will fully discharge for all, so I will leave on 12 hours (6:30AM-6:30PM)
    • The patch comes with saline vials - these are not used. The NAD instructions on the bottle are apply 1 mL (20 drops) to positive (+) side of patch, and these are 1 mL patches so that is all that is needed. 
    • The instruction video says to use saline AND medication, however the instructions say "1 mL of saline and/or medication". So it sounds like the pads take a maximum of 1mL, and the NAD amount to add is 1mL, so it seems to just use the NAD (which is already buffered by saline it appears - it's a liquid suspension)
    • Don't shower with the patch or get it wet ... OK so I'll need to shower earlier 
    • Clip hairs/don't shave, presumably because they'll be pulling off from the adhesive
    • Looks like it can go anywhere, I'll do upper arm
    • Start in the middle when filling and go outwore, leave 3mm unfilled around the edge. 
    • When applying, don't press the center of the pad, just the adhesive edges. 
    • As David Michel  noted, use warm water and soap to remove. They suggest skin moisturizer in between treatments. 

     

    Will report later.

     

    There's videos available here on the product

    Reply Like
  • Important correction! (Maximums, the timeout for editing a post should be much longer) - the saline is used on the negative electrode. Of course, you need a nice electrical circuit completion. So 20 drops of NAD on +, and 1mL saline on -. 

     

    I suggest getting the edge of the bandage up a bit before doing the NAD and saline, easier to apply the bandage later. Get an edge up on both sides as it's split in the middle. 

    I didn't find applying it difficult, didn't need toothpicks or anything. Also note it's a big patch, might want to check the size and placement first before applying. 

    Reply Like 1
  • Hi Dan and LEF/Rescue Elders Colleagues,

    Thanks for your helpful and detailed reporting on NAD patches...I look forward to  hearing about your outcomes/results.  To be fair, I take three handfuls of meds/vitamins/neutriceuticals a day, and don't feel different on any of them.  I take them because there is reasonably good, but far from perfect, science/data indicating that long term outcomes are helpful.  We all know this.  We could take opium and probably feel great short range, with unfortunate long range effects.  

    Which doesn't mean I don't want to hear you telling me you feel like King Kong on these NAD patches, Dan! :)

    Rudi

    Reply Like
  • Rudi  Well I happen to be starting testosterone replacement at the same time (this morning) as the NAD, so I suspect I will feel like King Kong, but not because of the NAD! I'm measuring about 20 daily biomarkers (BP, peripheral perfusion index, HRV, glucose etc etc), plus all the blood tests baselined, PLUS just did a DNA methylation test (urine) this morning, so if there are any effects I should see some effect in the biomarkers. HRV (Heart Rate Variability) is highly sensitive to age, mood, exercise and general health, so I am looking to that in particular. 

     

    Side note on supplements, I take a lot. The only ones that have a macro effect are phosphitydlcholine, CoQ10 and ALC/ALA (acetyl-lipoic-carnetine/alpha-lipoic-acid). Note, phosphitydlcholine has great benefit for your cellular membranes and you notice the effect with much better/younger skin, but don't take it if you are a meat eater. 

     

    NAD: suggestion, upper arm works well and I recommend using your non dominant arm. It does restrict movement a bit, and I feel that I don't want to overly tax the patch, so non dominant seems to be working out well. Also makes it easier to apply as you can use your dominant hand to apply and take off.

     

    Also when applying, remember to leave a dry strip of a few mm around the edge of the electrode center pad. I'll post some pictures of this tomorrow. 

     

    So far seems like it feels a little tingly maybe. It's just a coin cell battery which is 3V DC - very low, so probably my imagination. The rate at which it diffuses depends on your skin conductivity - as mentioned for most people it drops precipitously after 8 hours and is exhausted by 12. I actually have a sensitive (uV)  DVM so can measure my conductivity, but since I don't know the perfusion rate vs ohm for this patch it won't help. I'll poke around the specs from the company and see if I can estimate my diffusion rate with this path. 

    Reply Like 1
      • Rudi Hoffman
      • World's Leading Cryonics Funder
      • Rudi
      • 11 days ago
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      Dan Mc 

      Helpful response, Dan!   You know that for multiple reasons we want you thriving a LONG time... :)
      Rudi

      Reply Like 1
  • Friends, final results. 

    I took pictures but there's nothing worth looking at. The procedure was painless, taking the patches off was easy and I didn't need hot water. Just easily peeled off. The + NAD side was dry and the saline was still damp, which is good indicating that all of the NAD should have made it into my system (I went for 12 hours just to be sure). I can 'feel' the spot where it was done but at the moment it doesn't hurt, will see how it feels tomorrow. Maybe it's a tiny bit sore. Just in case (I've got five more) I'll switch arms tomorrow, defying my idea of doing it on the non dominant arm. No marks otherwise. 

    While it was on, early in the day it seems like I could feel a pin prick that wasn't painful. Could be my imagination. Anyhow I call it a success so far, beats the hell out of going to an IV clinic and sitting around all day. 

    Reply Like 1
  • Thread spamming ... the kit comes with a technical overview page which is very detailed, and very interesting. The positive electrode is precisely zinc coated and the negative is silver chloride coated. I wondered about this which is why I checked, the positive electrode had a oxidized green color at the end of the day which wasn't there earlier. What happens is that on a purely bi-metallic galvanic basis there's about 1V potential between the terminals, with the addition of a coin cell you get about a 4V potential between the terminals. 

    The medication is either 'positive' or 'negative', presumably this means it's buffered with a ionic solution in either case. So a positive medicine/positive solution will pull into the skin, being attracted to the negative terminal. Once in the skin it'll get carried off by the blood stream. Electrode coatings are consumed during the application which is why the positive looks oxidized at the end of the day. 

    Lot's more technical detail including clinical studies in the brief, but overall I'm convinced this is a safe and effective NAD method, at a bargain price. The pills are rather expensive, now I'm wishing I could discontinue them to save some money. 

    Rudi  I don't feel different so far other than the probable effects from the T therapy (hopefully though I'll sleep better tonight). If I really cared to measure on quality of life basis I would have done them separately, but I'd rather start them both sooner. By the way it is possible I think to measure 'wellbeing'. I do this by measuring galvanic skin response, HRV (which is extraordinarily affected by wellbeing), and by taking an EEG snapshot during rest and active concentration, plus my other daily biomarkers. Soft heuristics are noting sleep quality (though I have an Oura ring coming in which will have a more discerning measure of sleep). Anyhow, since NAD's primary benefit presumably is DNA repair the best way to see if it helps you is to check your DNA methylation, which is why I did the sample for that just before starting. 

    Reply Like
      • DanMcL
      • skipping my funeral
      • danmc
      • 10 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Yup, slept way better last night! For some reason I've been suffering with waking up at 3AM and not going back to sleep, or back to a good sleep (common problem).  Last night I woke up at 3 on the dot, did a 'oh noes ...' and next thing I know I wake up again at my normal time 5AM with 8 hours sleep, and feel wonderful. The arm feels fine. 

      Day two today. 

      Reply Like
  • Dan, thanks for the update on your patches. I did notice so irritation on the day following patch removal.  I also alternated arms.  I do have to say I have not noticed anything one way or the other using the patches.  My concern is the efficacy of the patch vs IV infusion.  I understand that there is a study that is supposed to be out this month that may answer this question.

    Reply Like
      • DanMcL
      • skipping my funeral
      • danmc
      • 9 days ago
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      djmichel Bill F stated on video that their test found no difference, maybe the study coming out is from his group. Otherwise I don't see any reason to doubt it. The only difference with IV is needle (push system) versus electrophoresis (pull). Once the molecules are pulled into the skin they'll get flushed away, and I verified that the cathode pad was quite dry after 12 hours. 

      Otherwise like most of these treatments no physiological reaction is likely. This one is mostly for DNA methylation I believe which can only be measured. Not sure why many notice sleep changes, though I think I read it was due to the tie in with the circadian system. 

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  • FYI here's a shot of the patch just before use. You can see the edges of the backing pulled up to ease application. The right side is + with the NAD and the left is saline, and there is a band of white around the NAD per the instructions. There is a silicone lip around the electrode to contain the liquid, so why didn't I do the same with the saline? The spec (fill volume you can see on the path) is 1mL which according to the NAD bottle instructions is 20 drops, however 20 drops of saline is about .5mL according to the measure embossed into the bottle. So this time I put about .8mL of saline which doesn't therefore have the band. 

    Probably messing around with this too much, tomorrow I'll probably do 20 drops of saline again. So far am sleeping like a champ and no other reactions, other than some slight irritation on the spot that goes away after a day, and maybe some small pricking I feel under the patch during the day. 

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      • DanMcL
      • skipping my funeral
      • danmc
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      By the way, it appears that I'm going to have leftover NAD solution. If you want to 'turn it to 11' then the patches can be purchased separately ($65, robbery considering the patches are $99 from Archway). Or you can save it for a 'restore booster' later on. I'll see, the listing on the bottle says '6mL' and that 20 drops is 1mL, but halfway through it appears there will be extra. Expiration date of this lot is 11-07-2018 to 3-7-2019 (no refrigeration). If there is some left at the end, recall that you have to have saline with buffered NaCL-

      Also I definitely get slight pricking sensations while it's operating, not too annoying short term. 

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  • Pro tip, don't put the patch too high up on your arm, put it in the middle of the upper/forearm. Up near the joint it can get bunched up if you lift your arm up. 

    Also I pulled off the cotton pad to see how dry it really was getting. Turns out there's a fair bit of material left, maybe a drop or two's worth. So I have some confusion about how much is getting delivered (20 drops per instructions doesn't seem like 1mL (but then again maybe the saline isn't calibrated in mL? Seems unlikely), and how much is getting in. 

    OTOH the included technical overview is very thorough, and agrees with this page. Interestingly this works because it's using a DC potential with ionic salts. According to the page above the delivery is through the pores - hair follicles, sweat gland ducts, rather than through the skin per se which has a high resistance. But if you're looking for more detail that page has it. 

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