Tarek G I can confidently state my hair, after a couple years on 5mg/wk , continues to thin.

Patient 139 Yes - me too.  6 to 10 mg Rapamycin for the past year, hair still thinning.

Tarek G I assume you are make (sorry, not familiar with your name) then you’ll need to first block the conversion of testosterone to DHT. This is the cause of male pattern baldness (MPB). The DHT causes fibrosis in the hair follicle, chokes it, and growth factors are diminished.
 

So you’ll first need to start taking an alpha reductase inhibitor like Proscar 5 mg ( finasteride) or dutasteride .5 mg. This inhibits the enzyme the converts T to DHT.

Then you’ll need to add a regrowth stimulant. Minoxidil. I also recommend alternating between Dr Proctor’s Regrowth Shampoo from Life extension and Nizoral. Dr P’s shampoo contains nano which boosts nitric oxide, a hair growth stimulant. The NO in miNOxidil stands for nitric oxide, 

chuck stanley My reading leads me to be nervous if the HGH causes IGF-1 to go too high.  The claim is that IGF-1 has a just right range - too high or too low is not good.

One set of recommended IGF-1 levels is in the image below.

David Hanson My physician aimed for an IGF-1 in the range of a much younger man, so my level has stayed around 220.

chuck stanley 

Hello Chuck. When I first began to use HGH (Humatrope, by Elie Lilly) in June, 1998, almost nobody knew much about growth hormone. I read and printed out and studied the New England Journal of Medicine article by Dr. Daniel Rudman https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199007053230101 and I tried to imitate what Dr. Rudman did in his experiment. Then I joined doctor forums, and I began to ask questions. "I am in Mexico, and I am taking human growth hormone. What are the side effects that I might get? What IGF-1 should I aim for?" etc.

Most of the doctors ignored me, but Dr. James Hughes found it interesting that I was taking growth hormone.  He told me to get IGF-1 = 350 to 500 for anti-aging.   At the time, I was taking 1.5 iu per day.   My first IGF-1 test came out 360.   Some time later, I increased my dose to 2.0 iu per day, and I tested again.   My IGF-1 came out about 260 !!!  

I was confused, so I wrote to Lazarus Long, who was the person who had set up the first anti-aging clinic in Playa del Carmen, Mexico, to which the very first brave pioneers went to for growth hormone, in the 1990's... These were the persons who later had so many good results with growth hormone that the U.S. FDA finally allowed growth hormone for "adult human growth hormone deficiency."    Lazarus Long told me not to worry about IGF-1 results too much, they are not accurate because the result can be vastly different if we draw the blood sample one or two hours before or after we actually did.   So I didn't worry about IGF-1 too much anymore, but it was useful to know if the HGH is authentic, or not.

At some point, wandering and researching all that I could about HGH, I found a graph of the IGF-1 level of 100 healthy 25-year-old athletes. You can see this graph on my page, here: http://www.rajeun.net/day30.html

As you can see from this graph, IGF-1 was between 350 to about 700, with peak about 500... and some athletes had higher than 700.   I am talking about 1999, I will guess that none of these athletes were taking growth hormone to enhance sports ability, so these were real IGF-1 levels of healthy athletes.

So, 350 to 700 became the range of IGF-1 that I decided to keep for me, and as you can read on the page above, when I stopped taking HGH for 30 days and I took 5 IGF-1 tests in one month, the first test was IGF-1 = 525, and then my subsequent tests dropped (because I was not taking HGH for 30 days) until after 30 days my IGF-1 was 201, which I was very happy with because it showed that my pituitary was NOT fried, as many doctors had suspected it would be.

And now, to get back to your fears.   You are afraid of Blagosklonny's assessment of HGH, and Dr. Alan Green salutes and follows whatever Blagosklonny says.   And when they say it, many other persons and doctors don't question it anymore, and they also tell everybody to be careful of that very bad and dangerous hormone "GROWTH hormone" which they say will... ummm... let's see... Oh, I know!  It might make a small unknown cancerous tumor GROW !!!    And what else might it do ???   Oh, yes!  It might cause DIABETES !  And what else?  Oh, yes, it might cause Acromegalia (giantism)... And what else ???   Oh, yes... it might make the internal organs grow so much that they might BURST OUT OF YOUR ABDOMEN !!!

On the other hand, YOU have taken growth hormone for many years, and YOU have had good results.   DON'T FOLLOW THE BAD ADVICE of these "doctors" who have never injected growth hormone into their own body, not even one time, and they have not prescribed it to any of their patients...

And they have never actually seen the case of ONE PERSON who took growth hormone and then got cancer, caused by growth hormone.  (There are cases of persons who take growth hormone and then go to take a blood test and the PSA shows that they have prostate cancer... which might have actually saved their life, to discover it when they were taking a blood test to monitor growth hormone.)  

But prostate cancer is a slow growing cancer, and there is NO CHANCE that they began to take growth hormone and a few weeks later their Prostate Specific Antigen was so high that they found prostate cancer.

And diabetes is caused after many years of eating incorrectly, not after a few weeks or one year of growth hormone.

And Acromegalia is caused by a deliberate overdose of growth hormone, as in Arnold Schwartzennegger and Toy Soldiers, it takes a huge overdose of HGH over a period of more than 8 months, so it is not caused accidentally by taking 2 iu or 3 iu of growth hormone.

So... I recommend you should NOT LISTEN TO Blagosklonny or Dr. Alan Green when they speak baloney that they don't know is true, but it sounds good so they say it anyways.   YOU follow your own opinion, based on your 10 year experience using growth hormone with great results.  There is no evidence at all that growth hormone causes cancer, or that high IGF-1 (eg, higher than 200 or 250) causes cancer... or diabetes... or acromegalia... etc.

On the contrary, all the evidence is that growth hormone actually PROTECTS US against cancer.

I learned a lot about rapamycin from Dr. Alan Green, and from Blagosklonny... But they don't know anything correct about HGH, so I dismiss what they say about how terrible growth hormone is, and how we should avoid IGF-1 levels above 200.  

And right now, I don't even follow Dr. Alan Green about rapamycin, because he has a bad case of ANEMIA and he doubled his dose of rapamycin from 6 mgs to 12 mgs per week.  I say this is a big mistake, an act of desperation...  it will make his anemia worse, as he sits on his throne as the great doctor who taught us about rapamycin. 

He is a doctor, but he doesn't know anything correct about anemia, which I say is killing him.   And he doesn't know anything correct about growth hormone, so don't follow his advice about HGH.

chuck stanley If I may ask, were you on HGH steadily over that period of time? Did you use prescription (injectible) HGH? 

Dorian Gray yes it was prescription hGH, part of an approved research project with close medical supervision.

chuck stanley 

I believe their concern is hgh stimulates MTOR1 which rapamycin blocks or slows down.

Which raises the question of whether rapamycin will make the HGH ineffective especially if taken close  together? Or HGH will work against the rapamycin?

no one knows the answers to these questions. And it has been suggested in an article I read that the best time to take hgh would be five or six days after the rapamycin dose when the trough level is lowest  and to take a weekly HGH dose. 
and I would expect HGH to benefit MTOR2 Which is a good thing.

that way you might get the best of both worlds.
I think no one knows and I think we each need to experiment and come to our conclusion.

John Mcgough https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2018/02/rapamycin-does-not-interact-favorably-with-growth-hormone-receptor-knockout/

here is that study I referred to

John Mcgough Thanks! Just the information I wanted, and it is consistent with what makes perfect sense to me at this point.

I am hoping that my current anti-aging internist will provide the medical supervision needed. He is older than I and has already expressed interest in pursuing it for himself.

However, he is not local, and in the event of a medical emergency it might be smart to have a local physician with an understanding of the issues and dangers, someone who could see me quickly.

What are the thoughts on that?

chuck stanley 

good luck finding a Doctor Who understands HGH and rapamycin! Dr. Green is the only doctor in the country who worked with rapamycin but he certainly has no experience with HGH.

however I wouldn’t waste my time looking for such a doctor but rather 1. study all the available information and research papers. If you do that you will know more than any doctor you go see other than Dr. Green. Fortunately for us Dr. Green has provided tons of information On his website including the small risk of bacterial infections .

therefore 2. I would try to get a prescription for a Z pack which is what  Dr. Green gives everyone of his patients when they leave his office so at the first sign of bacteria infection you can take this. Maybe your medical person out of state can supply you with this. If not at the first sign of infection I would go to any doctor or clinic and I’m sure they will give you antibiotics since that’s what doctors specialize in.

3. Also I would read the posts submitted by Ellis and doing the appropriate blood test. You could go to any doctor and they would order these test but I would check every few months which means insurance will not pay if the tests are too close together. Therefore in May when life extension has the blood test sale I would order these test and check every few months during the first yearand after you change your dose.

By the way if you did go to see a doctor I would never mention unless you have to that you were taking rapamycin. They are just going to tell you that they believe that’s a dangerous thing to do even though they know nothing about this protocol.

for example 40 years ago I had myeloma   a bone marrow cancer and even to this day doctors won’t give me credit for all the things I’ve done but insist it was a mis-diagnosis or God intervene.( therefore the bone scan, biopsy and urine test which showed cancer were all wrong) It couldn’t be the things I did.

another example is I had two family members with incurable hepatitis C. After doing coffee enemas for six weeks both were told by the doctors that they were cured. When my in-laws told the doctors what they did the doctors reaction was ”stop that immediately it’s dangerous.”

if I had listen to doctors I wouldn’t be here today. It doesn’t mean they don’t have valuable information it just means they’re not all knowing and you have to double check everything they say and make your own decisions.

John Mcgough btw, I cannot criticize Dr. Green for experimenting with 12 mg per week of rapamycin. In 2019 he discovered he had a genetic heart defect and this is his attempt to deal with. I wish him luck And hope that works. However I would consider possibly doing a EPO as Ellis advises but he might be afraid it will make his blood thickerand cause a heart problem. Everything is a balancing act.

John Mcgough btw, you mentioned you were getting your HGH from someone out of state. I suspect you’re paying a very high fee and I would contact Ellis for his recommendations.

John Mcgough before your next rant against the medical establishment, you should realize that Dr Green is not the only doctor involved in this therapy and at least a few doctors post here. 

Karl I am sorry you thought I was ranting  against the medical establishment as that wasn’t my intent but  only recounting  a couple experiences where Drs we’re very negative. I was just trying to let others know they should not be discouraged if a Dr doesn’t approve of rapamycin.  Dr. Green as done us all a great service and the doctors that contribute here have valuable info!

John Mcgough

Re: will rapamycin make HGH ineffective, or will HGH work against rapamycin?

I have taken a double dose (2 iu) of authentic injectable human growth hormone (Humatrope, or Saizen, or other authentic injectable HGH) almost every day since June, 1998.  I continue to take HGH every day, and my intention is to continue to take it every day for as long as I do not have any BAD side effect, and as long as I can afford it.   I have been "warned" by DOCTORS of the "long term" possible side effects, especially that my pituitary gland would stop producing growth hormone.   But growth hormone goes DOWN with age, anyway, and I am now (February 2020) age 74 so that is not a reason to not take growth hormone. 

I listen to many good doctors, but after 22 years of daily HGH, I am still waiting for the first bad side effect to appear, and it hasn't happened yet.  And I have had feedback from literally thousands of doctors and patients who have used HGH, and the worst "side effect" some people report is a little pain at the beginning, which disappears when they lower the dose by half, and later put it back up again.

In my opinion, HGH "fixes me up" INSIDE and also OUTSIDE (skin wrinkles disappear, sagging skin gets tighter) of my body.  I "imagine" that it makes my bones absorb minerals, thus avoids osteoporosis, and it makes my circulatory system more extensive, thus avoiding a fatal heart attack, and it makes my cells divide fewer times, thus avoiding shortening of telomeres, and it repairs cuts or surgery faster, etc.  There were

In short, to me, growth hormone should have been called "repair hormone." but it was called "growth hormone" when it was discovered because it made young mice GROW faster and larger, which was later found to make young midgets grow taller.   (note: I, myself, had the pleasure to sell HGH for a very young female midget to grow to normal height, of course under the supervision of her doctor in Mexico.   The only side effect was that she became brilliantly smarter.)

And then I learned about rapamycin, recently, and I added it to my 8 point anti-aging program which I put together in 1998, following the principles of "risk management" which I had learned as an insurance agent.   What happens to us as we grow older, and how can I stop or slow down or reverse each particular "sign of aging"?  

Rapamycin somehow SLOWS DOWN cell growth.   I accept Blagosklonny's explanation, that each cell grows from infant to adulthood, and then WE WISH they would stop growing older.  Rapamycin somehow interferes with cell growth, and by doing so, it POSTPONES when that cell is "old"...

This is, in many ways, very similar to what growth hormone does, but in a different way.   Growth hormone hopefully keeps telomeres longer... rapamycin hopefully makes cells slow down their rush to Old Age.   I don't see any conflict between them.  

And in any case, I am not going to stop taking my dose of HGH every day.  And I do intend to experiment with rapamycin because Matt Kaeberlein's video shows that even a single short period of rapamycin extended the lifespan of mice. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tIGSkzElf0

So it might extend my already (I suspect) HGH extended lifespan.  The more, the merrier.

But I have also taken insulin several times every day for nearly 20 years, and I am not a diabetic.  (attention doctors: before you insist that I am already a diabetic because my pancreas does not work anymore, I inform you that blood tests show that my pancreas is very well, thank you.)

And I THINK that keeping my blood glucose perhaps 30 points lower than they would have been, for 35,000 times or more for three or more hours every time has probably also extended my lifespan... I don't have proof that it is good, but I assume it has been good because WE KNOW that the higher blood sugar goes, the more neurons it might damage, and the more capillaries might be blocked with sugar, which would cause damage especially in the eyes, the kidneys, and the brain.  

So maybe 30 points less average blood sugar for 100,000 hours has also extended my lifespan. 

And I have also kept my red blood cells between 50% and 55% for nearly 20 years with EPO (erithropoyetin.)  I don't have proof that this is good, but MORE OXYGEN running through my veins has surely not been BAD for me, and has probably helped to prevent damage to cells all over my body.

And I have also had about 30 sessions of EDTA chelation, which probably helped to clean out my circulatory system, probably removing LEAD and CALCIUM from my body, which presumably would have damaged many cells, thus shortening my telomeres.

I don't mean to brag, as I am always accused of bragging when I state the facts of what I have done to try to stay young.   I only wanted to say that I see no conflict between taking HGH and taking rapamycin.   A physiological dose of HGH has no bad side effect of any kind, and it has many good benefits... and rapamycin seems to postpone aging, but it might have a bad side effect which is that it might lower red blood cells ("anemia") and it might lower white blood cells. 

So keep an eye out for this, and treat these conditions, if it happens.

Ellis Toussier I enjoy reading your posts. Maybe you've already discovered this. Dr Green takes 12 mg of sirolimus every other week and on the off week he does his senolytics.