Rapamycin Cost
Let me clear some things up for people considering rapamycin (generic sirolimus). I am taking it and so are my dogs!! (I have a very open-minded vet who trusts my judgement.)
Dr. Green, a very impressive individual, gave me my personal prescription for sirolimus. I have a very good PPO (Blue Cross/Blue Shield). I took it to CVS, the affiliated pharmacy, and got a great price of about $2.90/mg. (Remember, you are only going to take about 3-6 mg/week.) With a PPO you can probably do this also. CVS wants to meter it to you with a month's worth of doses at a time, but that's just how they do things. You still have access to the full quantity prescribed.
With the prescription from my vet for my dogs, I was forced to take to the open sea. Armed with only a prescription and no insurance, the picture is quite different, but you can still get a good price. Cutting to the chase, I ended up at Walmart. The prescription was for 90 mg - price $1440. But wait! after presenting a coupon downloaded from GoodRX (that's right, just anonymously downloaded and printed) - price $396!!!! As my vet remarked, that's a hell of a charge for not looking around first! ($4.40/mg is better than taking a risk buying online, in my opinion.) Costco is pretty close to that price. At CVS/RiteAid, etc., you will pay vastly more.
You can't touch the original drug rapamune (Pfizer) unless you are wealthy or go to Canada. The problem with the online pharmacies is that a lot of them are scams. Just because they have a website doesn't mean anything. At least check to see if they have a brick and mortar location. Example: At one point I was excited by the online infomercials and wanted to take NMN instead of NR; however, when I looked up the reputations of the suppliers only one was unsullied, and on further investigation their brick and mortar location turned out to be a residential dwelling!
FYI, more than one company makes sirolimus. From CVS the sirolimus was made by Greenstone, LLC, apparently a wholly owned subsidiary of Pfizer.
Hope that helps some people who are considering rapamycin but think it might be out of their reach. If you know a doctor, great, but if you don't a visit to Dr. Green is worth the trip, and I live in CA! (round trip less than $300) Do your homework first and you will learn a great deal.
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Well, I found a new "solution" to my rapamycin problem. After the AntiAging store "placebo debacle" (I never did get that refund), I thought I'd try again.
China.
I went to Alibaba, Dozens of "stores" sell rapamycin. I picked one that took a Mastercard. I ordered a 1 gram sample and waited. They sent 2.26 grams in error (usually they sell by the kilo so obviously were not concerned about a trivial weight difference) of what was claimed to be 99% medicinal grade rapamycin. The package was routed through the US and was opened and the sample split... There was a big DEA tape on the package... but I suspect they were looking for narcotics and found none.
It cost $100 US plus $50 shipping. I bought a jewelers scale, 2 lbs of lactose, then like "Breaking Bad", cut my 2.26 grams with the lactose. I calculated that 407 grams of my now diluted powder would contain a single gram of rapamycin. This is ~1/8th tsp of powder. I had been on it for 2 weeks, and got my trough level back today, 2.0. This is identical to level when taking the 1 gram of "Rapamune" at $10 per pill.
So, 150 for the rapamycin, $20 for the lactose, $30 for the scale. $200 US all in. I have 2260 doses of rapamycin. This would cost me $22,260.00 Canadian!
In my view, worth the bother. I would NOT do this without testing the drug, or blood levels, but is an option for those who can do some simple algebra and have a table-top mixer to compound the powder.
My kilo of resvratrol and a year of NMN is coming from the same supplier.
I hope this helps.
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Steve Roedde Well stated!
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RobH I had forgotten about the three month supply bit. However, my 2000plus doses of Rapamycin was routed through the US, and opened by the DEA. The AAS placebo Rapamycin was labeled “nutritional supplement” and was shipped to the USA. My real Rapamycin from China was labeled as “commercial sample”... cosmetic product. Even 10,000 doses of Rapamycin only weighs 10grams and is a very tiny amount physically. I suspect that the actual risk is low... but of course do not know.
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Steve Roedde Customs enforcement seems quite variable. My recent order of 120 grams of NMN was held up by Customs until I submitted a one page statement about what NMN is and what I intended to do with it. The declaration of contents apparently said that it was for scientific research. I stated that it was a supplement for personal consumption. I am enrolled in the VIA study, which I stated that they would be tracking the results of my NMN consumption. The package was released, but I hope it doesn't take the same effort next time. I doubt that they would have allowed a shipment for more than one person. Now if Customs would just assay the sample and tell me the results...
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RobH Brilliant final line! Thanks for the update...
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Steve Roedde https://www.valisure.com/
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Steve Roedde Interesting - clicked to find Wuhan Pharmacy - not sure I want to order from them at the moment!
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Paul Beauchemin Paul Beauchemin . If you can find an internist who is up in years, say over 75, there might be a chance he knows about rapamycin, especially if he has an interest in aging medicine, and is already experimenting on himself. Just an idea. It seems it would be far safer to buy with prescription in the U.S.
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Steve Roedde I'm following in your footsteps and have received my Rapa powder. One question: What is your procedure for taking the rapa powder?
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Van
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Van I used the jewellers scale and using measuring spoons found the amount that corresponded with the correct weight (333mg/mg in your case if I recall). It might be ~ 1/2 tsp if you are taking 5 mg weekly. Then, just measure and eat it dry. It’s marginally sweet because of the lactose. Of course the dose you actually take might vary... but it’s so bloody safe, if it’s 5 mg one week and 7 the next, it doesn’t matter. For what it’s worth, I have changed my dosing somewhat. I take 10-12 mg on Saturday, then 1 mg every other day. I have never had Friday morning trough levels over 2.6(remember, I want some MTOR2 inhibition). Zero impact on hemoglobin, glucose, liver function, cholesterol. I am somewhat lymphophenic, but was before starting (not uncommon in Crohn’s disease and moreso after thymectomy). For what it’s worth... I have been able to taper my prednisone even more... and am down to a near-physiologic 7.5 mg/day from a high of 50 mg per day. I can still lift weights, run my farm, ride my bike. My neurologist, who was definitely not on-board my use of Rapamycin, was surprised and pleased at my level of function. Case studies/case series are useless data-points for others, but I seem OK so far. I am still awaiting proper RCT data... one day... Hope this helps. Steve
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Steve Roedde Thanks for the guidance. I am very familiar with Rapa protocols, but can always learn more. Was rather intrigued by the cycling protocol set forth in this blog. Yeah, just put the powder in your mouth and wash it down. I also had bought a jeweler's scale down to .001, but everything I read says it is not very accurate below 10 mg. Can buy a Lab balance for about $150, which will be very accurate down to .0001., but I believe the jewelers scale is accurate enough for our purposes. I'm beginning to mix the rapa with the lactose today with a spoon and ceramic bowl. In the video on line they used a mortar and pestle, but I think I can do this the correct way with a spoon, lots of effort and time. You only have to do it once every 2 years or so. About freezing it. Don't know if this would last for 2 years in the freezer? Probably should research it. I know that the tablets are good for a long time, but they probably have a stabilizer in them.
As far a dosing. Have been taking 6 mg weekly for 3 years, and have recently gone to 10 mg weekly. The key for me is mouth sores. They always show up if I over do it. Here is recent paper by Dr. Mikhail V. Blagosklonny, who is really the reigning expert on aging. He has a chart that shows the optimum dose for Rapa to get max benefit without disturbing TOR 2. In my case I keep increasing dose until I get some mouth sores, then I wait a week and take 1 mg less. No problems with 10 mg so far.
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Van agreed, for our purposes the jewellers scale is fine. Of note, I have never developed “mouth sores”, regardless of dose/Rapamycin levels. I suspect that my Sunday/Monday trough levels are really high... but it probably doesn’t matter. I agree, Mikhail is the guy who knows the most.
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Steve Roedde I have taken up to 25 mg at once without a problem. It is the 2nd. dose that is the problem. I waited 4 weeks after than large dose. (Remember in the Mannick study, elderly took 20 mg week for 4 weeks) It might be worthwhile to re-read Mannick, where they predict in advance the amount of Tor inhibition for each dose, and they were correct.
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Van reread. Agree.
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Steve Roedde A little update on my Rapamycin powder compound. Have been on lock down for past month so no way to get to lab, but had an encouraging sign. I got a mouth sore on my inner cheek. This is the exact location that I have got sores in the past when I went too far with Rapa. This happened after my first dose of appx. 10 mg. I had run out of Rapa tablets and had not taken any Rapa for 3 months. I had taken 10 mg in past without a problem, but probably lost some of my tolerance for higher dose Rapa. Very in-tuned to my body because I have been taking Rapa for over 3 years.
Rapa tablets very difficult to get here in Spain. Shipping a few grams of Rapa powder from China is very easy and inexpensive.
Because of the sore, I only took 6 mg Rapa today which is my second weekly dose. I will continue to increase my dose by 1 mg. going forward until I get another sore and then back off 1 mg after skipping one week. This is the method that Dr. Mikhail V. Blagosklonny recommends. In order to get the ideal dose, for maximum effect, you increase your dosage until you get side effects then back off.( TOR 2) My individual and particular side effect just happens to be mouth sores, and I never have mouth sores except when over doing Rapa.
An educated guess is that my ideal weekly dosage is around 10-12 mg weekly, but only time will tell. I'm almost 74 yo, and know that the older you are the stronger the TOR signal and the more inhibition you need in order to get the full anti aging benefits. So that means: As you age your target dose with change. Also, studying the cycling protocol discussed on this blog.
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Hi Bob. The test is a serum Sirolimus (Rapamycin) level. As most know, rapamycin is used in daily large doses to prevent rejection in renal transplant patients. I am assessing trough levels (before my daily 1 mg dose). For renal transplant patients the target trough level is between 5-15 ng/ml... with side-effects increasing along with this level. I suspect that any medical lab could run the test at a cost. There is no cost in Ontario as long as it's ordered by a physician. Of course I don't want that degree on immune suppression (as I am taking it to treat an autoimmune disorder).
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Steve Roedde
I note that the lab tests available at low cost through LifeExtension do not include a test for the serum Sirolimus (Rapamycin) level. Too bad.
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JGC and anyone interested... I went to a local lab (S&N Labs in Santa Ana, CA) to verify a tablet of Lucidas 50 Dasatinib 50 mg that I purchased from BonHoa in India some months ago for about $250 without a prescription. The labwork was pricey. The lab charged me $350 to identify the sample and another $250 to assay the concentration, but I had a good feeling about the lab and the people, which I did not get from another lab I visited. Their analysis: "Two tablets labeled "Lucidas 50 Dasatinib 50mg" were received on 8 January 2020. The intact tablet was crushed, extracted and analyzed using high pressure liquid chromatography (HPLC). The correct drug was identified in this tablet based on retention time and UV absorbance spectrum. The results are summarized in the table below....Concentration (mg/tablet) 46". The President of S&N did snark that he could tell it was not a US company because they only mentioned excipients in the insert and were not compelled to identify them. Although this result doesn't mean that all the BonHoa offerings are what they claim to be or even that the rest of my bottle is good, it's an indication that BonHoa is legit. I experienced nothing good or bad from taking five of the tablets.
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Rob8311
Thanks for the info. That makes twice that Lucidas Dasatinib purchased from Bon Hoa has been tested and found to be the real thing. In the test in which I participated, the concentration was not checked, so it's good to know that a nominal "50 mg" tablet contains 46 mg, which is close enough.
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Rob8311 Did S&N provide a spectrograph of additional substances or just give you a summary of the requested chemical? For that money, I would think, there would be a comparative analysis even though other substances were not identified. Been a long time since I took physical chemistry but I would think techniques would be vastly better by now. I was looking for labs that might do some testing also and S&N was one that popped up. Here was my list:
https://www.metlabs.com/industries/consumer-products/
https://atslab.com/consumer-product-testing/product-testing-labs/
https://www.emsl.com/Services.aspx?action=list&ServiceCategoryID=13
https://www.eurofins.com/consumer-product-testing/
https://www.avomeen.com/scientific-applications/product-performance-testing/
https://www.cpsc.gov/cgi-bin/labsearch/
https://www.amalabs.com/company/
https://www.snlabs.com/index.html
I have not had time to contact any of them, just too busy during the day at work. If anyone has the time please feel free to engage. I'm afraid I'm a purist when it comes to ingesting chemicals and the thought of unknown "excipients" puts me off many of the foreign sources. Not that other sources for "pure" substances can't be found, I just don't know of any. Certainly if Keith Richards could purchase pharmaceutical grade heroin, we shouldn't shrink from the task of finding something unadulterated that will benefit our health.
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Dorian Gray This is my take for what it is worth. LC/MS/MS technology requires a specific method developed on each system to identify specific chemicals. I operate such a high complexity lab for Urine drug testing in the pain management practice. Random presence of other substances cannot easily be identified without the method specifically testing for them. Although various spikes in the mass spec will be seen the method will only be valid for certain specific substances. I am referring to medical grade high complexity licensing (very hard to obtain) and maybe it is different for non medical testing. The typical drug fillers (sucrose etc) could be specifically tested for to see if there is anything unidentified. Someone versed in typical fillers could probably provide a list of such filler compounds.
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Mark Thimineur I appreciate the input and clarification, Mark. Which leads me to a several questions about your work, just out of curiosity. But, for another time. I believe it worthwhile to contact several testing companies to inquire about testing.
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Ordered 250 mg of Rapamycin from dropshipmd Expected delivery is Monday. Cost was $550 including shipping so about $2.20 per mg. Sent money via Western Union. Only odd part was the WU store I had to send to was in Russia
the Alibaba option sound interesting if I continue past 1 year
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Paul Beauchemin I've had to send payments to Hong Kong and Russia. I believe they do that do avoid Western Union interference.
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Paul Beauchemin Dropship will deal with you on price, but you must ask for better price. You over paid. Last order, I paid $1.65 mg. + shipping of $10 for 350 mg. I have ordered from them multiple times over the last 2 years. I order directly from them, and wire the money via my bank. (They send wiring instructions if asked) It cost me $25 for wire. I have never sent there Rapamycin to a lab for a HPLC lab purity test. Usually I receive Biocon brand. They say they cannot take cc because there is so much fraud in India that banks charge 15% to use them. Don't know if that is true or not.
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