Intro to rapamycin

loveyouyrlongevity .... there is a study on c. Eligans and fruit flies where the the food component allantoin found in sprouting wheat germ and allo Vera, doubles the life extension effect of rapamycin... summary...actually there were many synergistic drug combinations graphs. Odly metformin was absent.

are we there yet  ....  The study is over now.  I am waiting to see what the results of the year show, if anything.  I have read that they now think that the 5 mg a week is not enough.  We shall see when the results are tabulated what that dosage meant for participants.  I have not heard about what you bring up, but I am sure as we travel down this road we shall find more refinements to the regimine .  

loveyouyrlongevity ..... my self experimenting with sirolimus (rapamycin) has shown a clear near elimination of left knee arthritus pain. I am 70 on a 10 day interval of 2mg.

are we there yet I've just started my self-experiment with rapamycin. I'm 73 and it would be a stunning endpoint if I shared your achievement of elimination of arthritic pain. I am curious about your dosage. From prior readings, I would think 2mg would be too small a dose to show efficacy. If you don't mind, would you share your weight and how long you've been on your regiment? Also, how long did it take prior to you feeling noticeable pain relief? Thanks.

Sanford Finley 

Sanford Finley I will give what you ask. I am 280 pounds 5 ft 8 in, 71 yo normal blood work. Used to have significant arthritis in left knee and right hip. I am a physicist with intellectual seduntary lifestyle. No notable health issues. Normal blood work. I currently take 1.5 to 2 mg metformin daily with noticibly good effect, 2 mg sirolimus every 7 to 10 days unless I get a vaccination or travel on an airplane to lecture. I am told my guessed age is mid fifties. Less if I shave off my grey facial hair.

my latest health device that I am excited about is a vibration plate for mostly static exercise. It appears to work. My legs are sore the next day. 

Sirolimus seems to help regenerate cartridge and joint tissue as well as improve heart mussle myocite health in animal studies as well as improved stamina I find noticible. I started noticing arthritis pain go away if I walk less than a half mile after about 2 weeks. Note: take b12 supplements to counter metformin reduction in b12 absorption. What are you medication plans?

are we there yet Thank you for the information. RE: my medication plan, I took my 1st dosage of 4mg Rapamycin one week ago and plan to take it weekly unless I experience an adverse effect. I also take metformin 500 mg. 1 daily, fisetin 1 g. once monthly. Additionally, I take b12, fish oil, pomegranate tabs 250 mg. daily. I am 73 yrs. old, 5' 11 and 170 pounds. I am healthy except for spinal osteoporosis which presents with hip pain when walking long distances. Since the introduction of the Rapamycin into my routine, I have experienced a profound placebo  (I assume) effect. I feel considerably less hip pain and feel more energetic. As an interesting aside, I started my 13-year-old dog on 1/4 mg of Rapamycin weekly at the same time I began. He too suffers from arthritis. Concurrent with my increase in well being he now is able to jump in the back seat of my car without assistance, whereas he previously needed to be helped. Who knows? Do dogs experience placebo effects? Finally, I purchased a neutral face cream and made a compounded mixture of 20mg. of Rapamycin with the 4 oz. cream which I apply to my "turkey" neck 2x daily. I will monitor this for any change. I plan to update the forum as to future outcomes.

Sanford Finley regular feedback will be greatly appreciated.  Good luck.

Karl Thank you for your good wishes in my endeavor. Be assured I shall provide ongoing feedback barring an unexpected endpoint (fatality) is encountered. 😉

Sanford Finley 

Sanford Finley Just wanted to comment on the topical cream. The concentration of 20mg in 4 ounces will be around 1.8 micro molar (approximate). The recent study of topical rapamycin which found significant benefit for senescent clearing and improved appearance etc used a 0.1 micromolar concentration (approximate). Studies on hair (fur) growth in mice using topical found effectiveness at 0.1 - 1.7 micromolar concentrations. At concentrations above this there was mention of non-healing wounds. In tuberous sclerosis patients they use 10 micromolar to inhibit growth. Just wanted you to be aware that there may be some unwanted effects at higher concentrations. Reading through the literature I believe what you want to do is influence autophagy moreso than inhibit growth. In cell cultures they use about 0.2 micromolar concentrations to influence autophagy. I've been using this concentration (approximate) for a topical (2mg in 4 Oz) for a while and see some marked improvements and feel safe in doing so. You may be fine with the 10X higher concentration but sometimes to much may not be as good. 

Mark Thimineur Your point is well taken; more is not necessarily better. Perhaps I will add more cream to dilute my alchemy. If you could share a link to the mice study you referenced it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Sanford Finley The link is

Cell Reports Volume 27, Issue 12, 18 June 2019, Pages 3413-3421.e3

A relevant paragraph below:

(G) Rapamycin (1.6 μM) induces hair regeneration. Male mice were shaved on postnatal day 43 and treated topically every other day. Photographs were taken on day 37 post-treatment. Number of animals: control, n = 18; rapamycin, n = 17. Rapamycin at 100 nM gave similar results as 1.6 μM (Figure S2). Similar effects by rapamycin were seen in female mice (Figure S2B). Rapamycin at 16 μM, however, resulted in hair loss and open wounds (data not shown), consistent with a previous vascular grafts study in rats receiving high-dose rapamycin (Walpoth et al., 2001); this may be due to more severe inhibition of mTOR, which was reported to be required for hair follicle stem cell activation (Castilho et al., 2009, Kellenberger and Tauchi, 2013, Deng et al., 2015).

Sanford Finley Just wanted to let you know that my math was off. mixing 20mg of rapamycin in 4 ounces (assume U.S.) comes out to be a concentration of 185 micro molar. If it is UK ounce it is 192 micro molar. For reference, the recent study of topical rapamycin for skin was a concentration of 10 micro molar. I've been using 27 micro molar (2mg in 4 Oz).  Should be careful with this stuff - the topical can cause skin ulceration etc. Useful tool for molarity concentration is https://www.omnicalculator.com/chemistry/Molarity

Mark Thimineur Per your previous caution, I compounded a new batch with 2mg. in 8oz. It has now been 3 weeks of oral (4mg, 1x week) and topical administration. To date, I cannot reliably attest to any significant change but will be having blood work done in February. However, I can report that the topical application has resulted in a rather amazing effect. I have male pattern baldness and there is now "peach fuzz" growing in my previously bald spot. Also, my scalp has considerably less dryness and flaking. I have yet to experience any adverse reactions. I would be most interested to read your experience.

Sanford Finley Your new batch will be about 8-9 micromolar depending on wastage. I've used topical at 16-18 micromolar (2mg/4ounces) and repeated the experiment treating the back of my right hand with active and left hand with just vehicle twice daily for 6 weeks. There is already a noticable difference in the skin of the treated side compared to the untreated. I plan to do this for at least 4 months for comparison.  At the same time I have used it on face and neck twice daily for same amount of time. I don't have a comparison but it appears to me that anti-aging effect on skin is apparent. I have mixed a new batch at 3mg/4oz which is about 25 micromolar due to a probable 10% wastage and will begin using this in the same areas. I feel that it is safe at 25 micromolar or less. I have also used a 2.2 micromolar solution (0.2mg in 100ml DMSO) on scalp for about 6 weeks. I have a pretty full head of hair but mostly gray. The gray hairs are thinner and less coarse than the remaining black hair. To early to tell but there may be proportionally more coarse black hair at 6 weeks. I keep it cut very short (2-3mm) so it is easy to see. I think this concentration is safe on the hair as the follicle bulbs need mtor activity to generate but benefit from autophagy activation. This is about the same concentration as the rodent fur studies showing anagen phase of hair(fur) stimulated at 0.1 - 1.7 micromolar. Concentration of 17 micromolar caused fur loss due to mtor inhibition overriding autophagy effect. Keep me posted on observations and I'll do same.

At the same time I have been on oral weekly doses of 0.05mg/kg cycling with 0.1mg/kg doseage (3.5-7.0mg) for about 12 months. Have experienced many positive effects which are more pronounced at the higher dose. I am going to do the same cycling with a 0.1mg/kg - 0.2mg/kg and see what the differences are. In particular I am looking for any side effects such as stomatitis developing at the higher dose vs enhancement of the positive effects. It seems to me that one reaches a relative stability after about 6 months based on my experiences with self, family members, friends, and patients.

Mark Thimineur , Sanford Finley   Dosage is critical which really emphasizes the importance of consistent quality in the product.  Having other than reliable pharmaceutical grades frankly scares me a quite a bit.  But, very much looking forward to your results and success.

Dorian Gray Agree. All persons that I have responsibility for are using Rappamune (Pfizer) or Sirolimus (Biocon) which assures pharmaceutical grade. One can assume variable amounts of impurity from non-pharmacetical suppliers.

Mark Thimineur Are you able to share how do you make the cream? My Sirolimus is in tablet form so Do you take the pill and break it down as fine as possible
and then mix it in a cream? I feel like I’m missing something possibly a way to dissolve the tablet? Thanks 

John Mcgough Mortor and pestle to reduce the pills to powder. Place the powder in a vessel for dissolving in DMSO. I use a test tube with a secure plug. Dissolve in DMSO thoroughly by shaking and letting sit for 10 minutes or so. You only need 2 ml of DMSO but you could use more if you want. There are insoluble fillers in the pills but the rapa is highly soluble so even though it appears milky it is OK. The vehicle cream (I use a 70% DMSO, 30% Aloe base) put in a small mixing vessel like a cereal bowl. Add the dissolved rapa into the base and mix thoroughly. Put base cream back in original container and label.

3mg of rapamycin in 4 ounces will provide a 25 micromolar concentration allowing 10% wastage in the whole process. This is 2.5 times stronger than the 10 micromolar concentration used in the recent study on skin. It seems to work well applied once or twice daily. Two months of daily application to back of right hand has now produced a noticable difference from the appearance of the left hand (hands have some issues from years of performing procedures under xray guidance). Two months of application to face and neck are showing quite surprising disapearance of wrinkles. The women relatives in my life are quite demanding that I keep them supplied. 

If used on scalp for hair the concentration should be much less. In this case 1/4 tablet dissolved in 100ml DMSO provides about 2.2 micromolar. In the case of hair, anagen phase (growth) is encouraged by autophagy induction and inhibited by to much mtor block. In the case of rodent fur, a 1.6 micromolar concentration was effective for anagen phase induction but a 16 micromolar concentration caused problems. So far, my hair seems thicker and has more black course hairs but it is to early to know. Hope this helps

Mark Thimineur that is very helpful and I will let you know how my skin and scalp experiment goes. I can’t express to you enough my gratitude and I’m sure others feel the same about the useful information you are providing. To have somebody in addition to Dr. Green who has experience with other patients is invaluable and I’m sure it gives others including myself more confidence to follow  your footsteps. The impact you’re having on others and the ripples it creates are beneficial for  so many which I’m sure is your intent. But I applaud your courage as many others for liability reasons might be afraid to share this information or subject themselves to such scrutiny. Thank you for being such a good and inspiring person!

Mark Thimineur 
Hi Mark...Can I use any vehicle cream for a new batch or should it specifically be the "70% DMSO/30% Aloe" you recommend? I live in Europe and can't get the application. I'd appreciate your help. tx

Ed probably OK with other vehicles. I use DMSO base because the rapamycin is highly soluble in that but it likely OK in any sort of oily base

Mark Thimineur  Hello Mark.  I was reading that rapamycin is fat soluble. I also think fisetin is good for this experiment as well so I wanted to mix these 2 together with alpha lipoic acid into Emu Oil. I heard emu oil was great at getting deep into the skin.  What do you think of this idea?  Also, I have read that DMSO is dangerous at certain amounts. 70% seems high.  The label on these bottles with dmso and aloe say that it should only be used as a solvent. What are your thoughts?

Mark Thimineur MMark Thimineur 

Do you use the rapamycin cream on your face and does it reverse wrinkles or just slow them down?

Mark Thimineur Do transplant patients get antiaging benefits of sirolimus even though they are on a high dose?

John, How are your results? Thank you

Sanford Finley Can you share an update, specifically on the topical?

Thank you!

Mark Thimineur It's been almost a year since you started this experiment. Could you, please, share some conclusions? Did cream hand application or DMSO scalp show any significant results? Thanks!

Anna Marie Observations of 25 micromolar topical rapamycin on the skin of face and hand: fine wrinkles are eliminated slowly on face, more difficult to see this effect on hands. No further need for botox injection to forehead - stopped this one year ago and the creases and furrows have not appeared while using the topical which is the same effect I had with botox (along with the muscle paralysis). Now there is no paralysis of the procerus, corrigator, or frontalis muscles and yet, no wrinkles.  Improved thinkness of skin is observed on treated hand as tendons and veins are more hidden on treated and more prominant on untreated. Disocolorations diminish gradually on face, eczema on hands makes this a more difficult call on the hand. Eczema on hand improved, mostly eliminated. Observations of 2 micromolar rapamycin on hair: Some improvement in hair thickness and more black hairs noted - not dramatic. Now using alpha keto glutarate at 30mg/cc on hair which seems to result in a more robust thickening and more numerous colored hair than I saw with the rapamycin. 

Mark Thimineur I came up with an alternative idea. Made rapamycin serum instead. purchase a 4oz glass bottle online online with dropper. Open up 3mg Rapamycin powder into the bottle. Fill it up with extra virgin olive oil. Shake vigorously (should dissolve completely). Apply liberally to your face and/or hair up to 1x a day. Have been using it on my hair regularly. I like the effect. My hair is smoother (less fizzy), more robust, takes better shape after using it ~3x a week after 1-2 months. Can't say if this is due to Rapamycin or Olive Oil. Both of them appear helpful for hair. 

Gokhan That concentration your are using is about 25 micromolar which is what I use on my face where it has the effect of slowing facial hair growth which is nice as it makes the daily shaves easier. The potential benefit for hair is through the induction of autophagy which apparently occurs at a much lower concentration of rapamycin which avoids the mtor inhibition effect of slowing hair growth. This is why I chose to change to alpha keto glutarate topical for scalp hair because it is a pure autophagy inducer and seems to rapidly induce follicular anagen phase better than the rapamycin. Just food for thought that the concentration you are using may slow growth of hair.

Mark Thimineur Hi Mark could you tell us how you mix the alpha keto glutarate at 30mg/cc is it with DMSO?

Mark Thimineur or anybody I can't figure out how to use this Molar calculator, please could you help? there is one here https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/chemistry/stockroom-reagents/learning-center/technical-library/mass-molarity-calculator.html or suggest the one you use??? I used 48 Grams of Cream a few Drops of DMSO and .48 G of Rapa, what is the Micromolar and what do I put in each box? How do I work the flip down boxes? I made a skin cream and I want to make a Shampoo, also, but I think it best to refine or confirm my mix

joseph mikhael Added 3000mg to 100cc water, put it in spray container, and apply - very easy

Mark Thimineur  Hey, how long is the  rapamycin cream lasting everyone? I am getting about 2 months with the 4 ounce batch, seems too fast and wondering if I am using too much?

     Gokhan Ross Barker  John Mcgough Sanford Finley

Fred Cloud I don't think  so  at all, I'm  Just about done with  my   1.7oz first  trial mix,  I have  been  testing  it  on  only  1  hand, it's been  about  a Month  I  guess, only  thing is  I  do  not  see  any  response  at  all,  Both  hands  seem  exactly  the  same,  should I  see  some response  by  now?   I   put 0.46g  in  the  1.7oz or  48g of cream, I  can't figure  out  the Molars

Fred Cloud my 4 oz lasted about 2 months. Used twice daily.

Ross Barker Read the study, it will tell you how long before you notice a difference.

Fred Cloud More opinions are  better,  also, a  visible difference  is a  relative thing

Ross Barker Not sure what you mean but you asked should you see a difference after a month. The study will answer your question and tell you when you would likely expect to notice a difference. If you are looking for general feedback from other people that is fine too but is not the question you asked.

Michael I have been doing topical rapamycin for over 8 months. I started by using Rapamycin mixed in Emu Oil with Apocynin, Copper Tetrapeptide, Epidermal Growth Factor (EGF) and Ubiquinol.  I did this for 6 months with my 44 year old wife.  I take Collagen peptides along with Hyaluronic Acid and my Rapamycin pills daily.  I did not notice anything dramatic.  My skin may be a little thicker?  I do feel a certain glow to my skin is there but it's nothing dramatic.  So I started to mix all of the above drugs with DMSO for better absorption.  I do a 50/50 with DMSO and Emu Oil.  I hear that Emu oil is great for absorption and skin tone.  I have been doing the new concoction for only a couple months. I will put this on my face after a shower in the morning so it's on all day.  At night I usually apply prescription strength Retin A.  I still think Retin A is the gold standard.  My guess is Rapamycin will slow the formation of new wrinkles and will improve skin elasticity.   I am not convinced (yet) that it reverses signs of aging. I am definitely going to give it more time.

JOHN forgot to add that I put methylene blue in my concoction as well. 

Mark Thimineur Hi Mark is the AKG that you use in the Arginine or Creatine form?

joseph mikhael I use the calcium salt (CaAKG)

Mark Thimineur Thank you Mark!

are we there yet 

any information on Allantoin dosing and where to purchase?

JOHN 

John Mcgough Doesn’t seem so.

John Mcgough John Mcgough  sorry,I clicked the wrong button!  I meant I like your comments.

Qimin You np. Glad someone likes what I say. Lol

are we there yet Can you please clarify what's '10 day interval of 2mg'? Thanks!

Sanford Finley What is your formula for rapamycin skin cream?  What is your formula for the scalp?  Did you get results other than fuzz?  Thanks for your reply.

Mark Thimineur Mark, are you still using the 3 mg rapamycin in 4 ounces for a 25 micromolar concentration on your skin and do you have any results to share?  And, what about the lower concentration for hair?  What's the formula for that and are there any good results?  You may have already answered these questions, but I didn't find them.  Thanks, Jay

Jay Orman I started with 3mg in 4 ounces and used for about one year. Doubled concentration to 6mg in 4 ounces and used for about one year. Doubled again to 12mg in 4 ounces and have used for 2 months. I have observed that each increase has lead to an improvement in desired effects. At the 12mg/4oz concentration I think I am observing some interesting changes such as correction of discolored skin and better appearance of previous skin damage. I plan to double again to 24mg/4oz after six months on the current strength. To some extent I have based this more aggressive approach on tuberous sclerosis literature concerning the treatment of benign tumors on the skin with topical rapamycin. The described concentrations are 0.1% - 1% with good tumor eliminating effects and not much described in terms of downside. In comparison the 12mg/40z is about .01% concentration and the planned doubling to 24mg would be .02% so my concentrations are well below those described for TS patients. I think using capsules or pills, each containing alot of filler limits our ability to concentrate much more although I could be wrong but also the expense increases dramatically. If you are starting out now I would suggest going to the 12mg/4oz concentration immediately and skip the lower concentrations.

Mark Thimineur Excellent information.  Thanks for the reply.  

Mark Thimineur , I have another question if you have time.  Do you have a preference for a specific type of skin cream to use and any specific reasons for that type?  I've researched different types, but you may know of something better.  Thanks again.  

Jay Orman Jay,

You can have a look at Vanicream commercially available  ...usually used for topical drug delivery/ 

Viktor Andre Thanks for the information.  

Jay Orman also DMSO is mentioned here a lot for solubilization...the problem with DMSO is that it will irritate the skin for lon term use even in very small concentration... you could dissolve Rapa in Transuctol (non irritating glycol)3%  and the solution could be mixed in Vanicream

Viktor Andre Yes.  My research says that transcutol is the better option, too.

David Michel I am assuming 5mg daily was a typo? Surely you mean weekly, no?

David Michel Yes, a type,  should be 5mg weekly

David Michel Typo, should be 5mg weekly.

djmichel .....Would you please spell out your pharmacy source for Rapamycin, please. 

And how $ much?  I'm just starting my self-trial and looking for $$$-saving source.

The suspense is terrible; hope it lasts.....nealfg

djmichel David, do you take 5mg as one dose or several times a week?

djmichel who are you purchasing from?  What “new site”?

Mary Holt https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-get-rapamycin-where-to-get-a-prescription/1428

Marc Someone who knows better should either correct me, or confirm what I write, but it was my interpretation that the WebMD article refers to side effects that may be observed in patients who have undergone organ transplant surgery, and are not only taking higher doses of Rapamycin daily, but also other powerful drugs in combination.
The article does not specify the actual dose nor the frequency of Rapamycin they are prescribed (it really should!) nor what healthy people wanting anti-aging benefits should take. So in that respect I find the WebMD article a little vague in evaluating the actual dangers, and thereby potentially misleading to the downside.
What I can gleam from reading the research on https://rapamycintherapy.com is that the longevity benefits for healthy humans relies on a strict dosage protocol of no more than 5mg per week.
Like the old adage; the poison is in the dose. Any substance can be a lethal if taken in excess; even water (hyponatremia). 

AWaller Yes.  The article appears to refer to the standard usage of rapamycin, not the use of rapamycin for aging.  I don't know of any research on the use of rapamycin for aging (once weekly or biweekly versus daily for immune suppression)  at this time.  

David Michel I just spotted in another thread on this site about rapamycin in which 'BrianMDelaney' suggested taking 5 mg with a fatty meal, because of 30% better absorption than on empty stomach.

AWaller Interesting, I'll try that.

AWaller Some new studies show that there is a lot of inter-subject variability in the relation of food timing to rapamycin timing and resulting blood levels. So it might not matter so much when one takes the rapamycin.

AWaller I read that eating a grapefruit before taking the Rapamycin accentuates the effect.

DanMcL correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't one be activating AMPK rather than suppressing it?
Typos aside, (and there seem to be a few on this thread :-)) please point me to where this particular recommendation of Bill's was voiced, as I have just started Rapamycin 5 weeks ago, and would like to know if he has made any such revision since.
I am sure you must be aware of the site pointed out to us on other places on this site, but in case not: https://rapamycintherapy.com

AWaller Yes thanks, typo. 

I believe it was a recent update at the COPL channel. Worth going through the videos there, IIRC a recent talk by Bill is where he mentioned that they're finding that folks in these studies who already practice healthy lifestyles and are taking metformin that the Rapa step can be skipped. Pretty sure I've heard him say this on a few occasions, I'll dig around and see if I can find references but worth joining COPL if you haven't It's wacky, but my kind of wacky. 

DanMcL Ok, I'll check it out. Thanks

AWaller OK Bill and team just sent out a email update where he says

"Rapamycin update

A drug called rapamycin has been shown to markedly increase lifespan in every animal model tested.

Initial reports from a pioneering doctor indicated substantive regenerative benefits in response to 5 mg a week of rapamycin taken along with daily metformin and other AMPK-activating compounds.

Interim results from a clinical study, and feedback from our supporters, indicate that this dose of rapamycin (5 mg/week) may be too low.

A clinical study on higher-dose weekly rapamycin is being planned.

Until we verify safety/efficacy of this higher rapamycin dose, please consider lowering mTOR by using AMPK-activating interventions such as:

• Metformin and/or
• Restricted eating (including various forms of intermittent fasting) and/or
• Nutrients like gynostemma pentaphyllum and hesperidin.

When AMPK activity is increased in cells, mTOR is indirectly suppressed and autophagy is initiated. Autophagy is the removal of accumulated waste from inside old cells. It is an important step in restoring cellular functionality.

When excess mTOR is lowered, autophagy can help rid old cells of toxic debris.

We made a change in my video presentation to reflect our current view that the first step to age reversal is to boost AMPK activity via several validated methods."

So it looks from this that the 5mg/week dosing of Rapamycin is too low, and that it is important to activate AMPK via metformin. WIP.

I started Metformin for multiple reasons, did NAD patches, and will approach Rapamycin soon as more is known about dosing. 

Update from the linked video; hot off the press "There is a change in the first step to substitute metformin and various forms of calorie reduction in lieu of rapamycin

Current studies indicate a higher dose of rapamycin may be needed and a clinical trial is needed to validate safety and efficacy of the higher rapamycin dose" 

So, hold off on the Rapaymycin until higher dosage safety can be established. 

DanMcL As I've posted elsewhere, it's not clear that metformin inhibits mTOR to any significant degree outside of the liver, and it clearly cannot substitute for rapamycin.

Iðunn Just relaying Bills message, and regardless he’s not saying Met replaces Rapa.

DanMcL Huh? You quoted him as saying "There is a change in the first step to substitute metformin and various forms of calorie reduction in lieu of rapamycin"

Paul Platt Everolimus just went generic in 2019 so its been expensive - I see the brand name product was $16K/month. Now you can buy it on Indiamart.com for $8.50 for 5mg tablets, and $10 for 10mg tablets - which works out to about $200 to $800/month depending on the dose and tablets you take. Most people go for the cheaper sirolimus which sells for $1 to $2/mg, so if you're taking 10mg in one dose per week (as I am right now) it works out to about $10/week or $40 a month - which is fine.

Brin Chikovski Everolimus is much weaker Tor inhibitor than Rapamycin taken at the same dose.  1/2 life is appx. 1/2 Rapa. (30 hrs)  You will have to take more to get the same Tor inhibition.  No benefit that I can see taking this regardless of cost.  Most trials were used using Everolimus because it was an prescription Rapamycin and the drug companies make more money.  See Mannick.

Van Help! I'm confused. So the 1mg Sirolimus Rapacan 1 tabs that cost roughly $1 a mg are or are not worth taking? Thank you!

Michael Rapamune is Sirolimus not Everolimus.  Everolimus works just have to take twice as much to get same effect.  Everolimus was developed for organ transplant patients taking daily doses to suppress immune system.

Van Thank you!

Koo I read in Science Daily in a publication dated July 25, 2013:
"[Rapamycin's] impact on aging itself is limited. The life-extending effect seems to be related to rapamycin's suppression of tumors, which represent the main causes of death in these mouse strains".
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130725141715.htm

I ask: How much of Rapamycin's life extension properties can really be extrapolated to humans?

Laurence R I'm a newbie to this field of research, and I'm sure there are others that could answer you better. It seems to me that there are quite a lot of papers that demonstrate  that rapamycin down-regulates mTOR in both human cell cultures and animals. The mTOR pathways are conserved across species, so it seems likely that there will be similar effects in humans, and the human cell cultures support that. However I think that human clinical trials are still underway to see how effective rapamycin is for treating ageing in people, others on this forum will know more about these.

Rapamycin is known to suppose at least one part of mTOR, TOR1, which controls the timing and rate of cell division, other aspects of cell metabolism and protein products. mTOR plays a key role in fibrosis, one of the major disease mechanisms in aging (eg heart disease, vascular disease, lung disease, kidney disease etc etc), and mTOR is also one pathway by which senescent cells resist cell death. So it seems that down-regulating it would be beneficial for the problems associated with aging. This is supported by a large body of research on fasting, which has similar beneficial effects. 

Rapamycin reduces the amount of inflammatory cytokines produced by cells. Increased levels of inflammatory cytokines are associated with ageing and are made by senescent cells. The inflammatory cytokines harm healthy cells in the body, eventually turning them senescent as well, like zombies. Rapamycin also reduces the numbers of Th17 cells in people with rheumatoid arthritis, see the abstract “RAPAMYCIN INDUCES REMISSION IN PATIENTS WITH NEWLY DIAGNOSED RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS” by Chen et . al. 2018. Th17 adds to the inflammatory feedback cascade of ageing and disease. But at the end of the day we are all experimenting here, and some of us may respond better than others.

Laurence R recommend you start on a lower dose maybe 1 or 2 mg along with metformin from my experience.

Laurence R I believe this is exactly what's happening to me. Either that or I finally have lung cancer.

Aaron Lahm It is unlikely that you will find, unless you specifically search for, a doctor that is up to speed on anti-aging therapy, and Rapamycin use.  There is even less of a chance that a doctor will prescribe a potentially dangerous drug for a non indicated condition.  Your best bet is to use referral list on this website.

Aaron Lahm I found my doctor through the age-reversal.net directory https://age-reversal.net/physician-directory/ . I called, doctor's assistant told me to just walk in on any Monday, waited 10 minutes in the waiting room while filling the paper work... 20 minutes later, I had my prescription for metformin and Rapamycin plus some very valuable advice. I feel lucky that he holds office only 7 miles down the road in Oldsmar (Tampa Bay area). Before that, given the potency of Rapamycin and its heavy side effects, I could not resolve myself to obtain it from a shady online pharmacy with no guidance and no assurance for quality.

Laurence R If possible, would you tell me what he charged you?  I live about 30 miles from Oldsmar.

David Hanson Howard Chipman, $150. Very good contact. General exam + interview.

The expensive part is the Sirolimus (Rapamycin). But a Good RX coupon slashed the price in half to a little under $500 for a 5 months supply, which will last me 6.5 months since I took on me to pass the prescribed weekly dose every 3rd week to recover from the Rapamycin nasty side effects.

Laurence R What was the Drs name that prescribed the meds and what was his fee?  I imagine that the RXs were costly to fill in the US.

Paul Beauchemin 

Paul congratulations, I have also seen positive results with my kidney function.  If you have ever been to a kidney dialysis center, you will be very motivated to take care of your renal health.  

Paul Beauchemin You told  me your Kidneys  had  improved,  but  I didn't realize  the  Degree,  this  is awesome,  is it holding still  now  to  date?

Ross Barker getting new blood work Tuesday so hope so

chuck stanley studies seem OK... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25948162/

chuck stanley Arginine like other amino acids stimulates mTOR. But I can't judge if the mTOR stimulation from arginine will affect human physiology in a significant way. 

L-Arginine Enhances Protein Synthesis by Phosphorylating mTOR (Thr 2446) in a Nitric Oxide-Dependent Manner in C2C12 Cells (nih.gov)

Staffan Olsson 

Hi Staffan- Question: if Arginine stimulates mTor  and Rapamycin down regulates, aren’t these fighting each other? Does this imply that if your trying to get the benefits of Rapamycin, you should avoid Arginine? Your thoughts?

BobM I can only reason on the basis what I have learned. And based on what I have learned, Rapamycin is a very selective and strong inhibitor of mTOR. So my thoughts are that rapamycin blocks most of the effects from ingested proteins and amino acids. 

BrianMDelaney definitely - changed both egfr and creatinine levels - put both metrics in range for the first time in 5 years

@BrianMDelaney  

Hello Brian. A 2019 article about many taking Rapa. came to mind. https://www.menshealth.com/health/a28440858/anti-aging-rapamycin/ Many people use it. Same for Dasatinib and a few other treatments featuring as the first "steps" of the stair diagram of a possible path to healthy longevity from 2019 - which you described in Aging Matters. Strong funding is emerging lately, as highlighted by SENS and Forever Healthy. If it wasn't for COVID, it would be amazing if, with so many volunteers available - e.g. those in the article, and so many wishing for it - a proper human study (even not too large) doesn't start soon. It could benefit in the very least many participants to start with. Perhaps some could take individual medicines or supplements or older people could be in a study following a protocol over time.
I do hope to hear of something happening very soon.

BrianMDelaney I have been on it for 8 months, no weight loss but it does make me feel much better and when it wears off after a week I start to feel worse. I am not sure why this is happening. The only thing I can think of is that it is acting a senomorph and putting my inflammation producing senescent cells to sleep for a week. I am going to test it by waiting until I feel bad at around 10 days and then take a round of senolytics to see if I get the same relief. Its strange most people say they feel nothing from taking rapamycin but I feel noticeably different. Maybe I have a lot of senescent cells?

Gregory Stephens you could start with a search "buy rapamycin"

Gregory Stephens Just search on indiamart.com for "sirolimus". Then search out the different suppliers on https://www.scamadviser.com/ to make sure they are not scam sites.

Brin Chikovski I used Indiamant, orded beginning of March.  It still has not arrived as of today, May 14th.  Hoping it's only a delay due to Covid closures.  Makes me nervous though.

Gregory Stephens Gregory, I have been using an India source for several years.  A few  of the products they have supplied are:  

1. for my Covid emergency kit,  Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, and Doxycycline.

2. For MTOR: Rapamycibn at 1mg tablets

3. For senescent clearance:  Dasatinib 100mg Tabs

All of these items have been supplied by Medimpex out of India.  I have found

the best way to contact them is via email. which is: trademedimpex@gmail.com, My

contact there is Soni Jain.  Be aware due to India money controls it is very difficult the

pass payment to this company.  They are creative in getting their payment and

sometimes I have to use Western Union to a second off shore company.  Dangerous

yes ,  but the price is very good, and the products are real.  And they have never failed

to deliver.  Typical delivery time is around 4-6 weeks.  I have not had any

products tested.  But they do work.  Cost varies from time to time depending on

quanity ordered, for example my last order a month ago of Dasatinib 100mg tabs.

thirty tabs ( will last for 2 1/2 years, (  3 tabs every three months ), My cost was

Dasatinib 100mg by dr.Reddys 30 pills 280 usd, which is 9.30 per pill for 100mg or

approximately 28 dollar per treatment.  BTW Dr. Reddy is a great Indian pharma

company.  Good reputation.  My last order of Rapamycin  was 300 usd for 120

rapamycin 1mg which I use at 4mg per week.  

Be aware prices vary and do change depending on availability.

Gregory Stephens I have successfully ordered rapamycin from China. 1 gram, 10 grams and 10 grams. I had my serum levels checked with the first two orders and they were identical to when I was taking rapamune. Cost ~$500 US for 10 grams. You must compound it with lactose as it is a powder. I do it so 1 gram of final product contains 2 miligrams of rapamycin.  5 mg is ~ 1 teaspoon with the lactose I had. No capsules required, Tastes fine.

In Canada, the cost of 10 grams of "Rapamune" brand is ~$100,000! ($10 per 1 mg tablet). I used the Wuhan Hengheda Pharmaceutical company. If you find them on alibaba (hard) you can chat with "Sabrina", or contact them after searching on "madeinchina.com". 

Steve Roedde Hi Steve, interested in your "serum levels" testing. What exact lab test did you get? And what was your exact protocol for the week/day leading up to the test (how much do you take per week, when did you do your draw during the week), and exactly when did you draw blood after last rapa dosing? I've been taking 4 mg/week from rapamycin.store (4 mg capsules) for a few months. I take it once per week. For my first serum test, I followed the grapefruit protocol referenced on this site. Took a whole grapefruit (entire fruit with pulp, not just juice) night before, drew my regular other markers panel at 8 am, then took another whole grapefruit right agfer (9am), then my 4 mg dose, and then drew blood at noon (3 hrs later). My serum level was only 2 ug/L. Based on all the literature I've read on serum levels of rapamycin (oral tablets or other), the level at 2-3 hr should have been much higher. There is quite a bit of individual variation in serum response. 

SD 

SD at the time, I was taking the Rapamycin daily (I take it to treat an autoimmune condition, not for life-extension). Trough levels are what is important to avoid toxicity, so I would have blood drawn on a morning before my daily dose. 

Typically, for organ rejection trough levels between 6-15are considered safe. Mine were 2-2.8 I think peak levels would be significantly higher but of no interest to me. I have since increased my dose to 15 mg, once per week... and had the same levels before my weekly dose. A physician must order the test and it is not covered unless you are a transplant patient. It costs ~$30 at ”Lifelabs”. 

SD I think your levels seem low given the dose and test timing. I would be suspicious as to the actual Rapamycin content in your product. I’d expect a 2ng level somewhere around day 3-4 post 4 mg dose.... without grapefruit juice.... dropping to undetectable in a pre-dose trough state.

Steve Roedde Hi Steve. Have you had the Rapamycin from Wuhan Hengheda tested?

PS: I am trying to etablish contact with Wuhan Hengheda. I have used the mail service on their homepage. But still no respons. .

Staffan Olsson I have posted a few times in this long thread. A pal had his sample apprehended by customs... and they did mass spectroscopy on it to ID the sample... pure Rapamycin. He did not get his product. I have had my serum levels tested several times when taking my self-compounded drug and levels were identical to same dose "rapamune". I trust the supplier. Can you search rapamycinon Alibaba in Europe...where in the past, dozens of suppliers come up... or has the site totally blocked pharma purchases? If you can't access that way... try a direct Email to "Sabrina" at hhdpharm08@outlook.com. Feel free to send a PM if you get stuck.

Steve Roedde Thank you for the advice, I will email "Sabrina" if needed.

Just a heads up, I think he's pretty expensive.