Fisetin to Clear Senescent Cells
Following studies with mice that showed significant senolytic clearance of senescent cells following large doses of the readily available flavenoid supplement Fisetin, my wife and I (ages 79 and 84) decided to try it. We have just completed two sets of massive Fisetin doses.
We had Life Extension blood-work done in October before the start, and we will have more again next week to observe any changes. The first set of Fisetin doses was on October 22-25 with 800 mg/day for three days followed by 600 mg on the fourth day, for a total of 4 g. I didn't notice much in the way of effects. Perhaps some reduction of small aches and pains and some increase in energy and mental acuity.
For the second set of doses done November 22-26, since we experienced no negative side effects in the first set we decided to increase the dosage a bit and to add 10 mg of BioPerine, a supplement that is reputed to magnify the effects and potency of flavenoids. For five days starting on Thanksgiving we took 500 mg of Fisetin and 10 mg of BioPerine twice per day, for a total of 5 g of Fisetin.
This time. I did experience one negative side effect. A few months ago, about 2 AM in the morning I awoke from a deep sleep and experienced a severe episode of vertigo. I turned over in bed, and the the whole room seemed to tilt. Suddenly, I didn't know which way was up. I staggered to the bathroom and vomited. The symptoms tapered off and disappeared in a few days, but it was a very distributing experience.
On the 2nd day of our 2nd Fisetin series, I experience a recurrence of that vertigo in the middle of the night, not as bad as my initial experience but still rather disturbing. I tolerated this mild vertigo and continued the treatment. My wife had no similar symptoms, and after my last dose I experienced no further vertigo symptoms.
On the positive side, following the second set of dosages I did feel very well, and very sharp and alert. This past weekend I ran my Shetland Sheepdog Taliesin in an AKC Canine Agility Trial in Mt. Vernon, WA, and we did very well, qualifying in 7 runs out of 15 and getting various colored placement ribbons. I was feeling quite sharp, and I even invented a new dog-handling technique that fixed an ongoing problem we were having.
Next week we will do the blood-work again, and I'll report any changes.
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Brian Valerie I have been doing the same thing for almost 6 months now. I just add the Fisetin dose to the Senolytic Activator. I have done it weekly and haven't seen any benefits or reactions. The 2 times I took D&Q, I had a general malaise for ~12 hours but also no noticeable benefit. I will probably continue the once a week protocol but I think it's time I moved on to Rapamycin. I am 69 yro and feeling like I was born a little too early and not quite rich enough to experience age reversal with the coming CRISPR technologies.
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Michael Avenoso I would definitely be taking Rapa at your age. Try adding diet and exercise to the equation if you haven't already done so as well.
This is the guy I follow the most --> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7869575/
This is a very good article on the subject of anti aging medications.
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Michael Avenoso Yep! Maybe we shouldn't expect to feel any improvements from what could simply be a diminishing of the rate of aging. Before and after biomarker tests of some sort might be more telling.
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Brian Valerie I don't experience any side effects, and I take the 20mg/kg for 3 days in a row every 2 weeks. I think it's better if you don't experience negative side effects. I also don't tell people about it because I am waiting for the clinical trial results on humans, but when my mom took it, she had a dime sized flat mole disappear on her face. I started tracking some moles I have developed with age (not ones I had when young), and they have lightened and decreased in size. This has been a good indicator to me, and maybe it would be more helpful to you rather than pushing and combining other things until you get a negative reaction. Also, I am not sure about the once a week protocol, as I do not know if the creators of your supplement have a scientific basis for it. If you aren't seeing an improvement, maybe try switching to a 2 consecutive days monthly treatment and see if that helps, since that is the protocol in the human research studies. Someone here said the studies were updated to 3 days, which is why I do 3 days. I do it about every 2 weeks because I start to see more wrinkles appear after 2 weeks, and when I take the fisetin, they diminish again. Oh, what a girl will do for the look of her skin!
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Fairy8i8 Thanks so much for sharing your experience and wise reflections with me, Fairy. I do agree with you that we shouldn't assume that experiencing negative side effects is an indication that the protocol is more effective. I will certainly start looking at my moles more closely! As far as the one day per week dosing goes, you're correct that the Mayo Clinic researchers had chosen a two days per month protocol, but of course, that is purely a fisetin study, fisetin thus far seeming to have a quite good safety profile. The folks at the Life Extension Foundation, creators of the Senolytic Activator supplement discussed above, do have impressive academic credentials, but considering that we're barely on the frontiers of the relevant research, I'm guessing that both they and the Mayo Clinic scholars are likewise guessing! A two days fisetin protocol was used in rodent studies, but one could argue for an even longer duration in a longer lived species like ours. Before adding the Senolytic Activator to my fisetin dosing, I was following the two days per month protocol, again not noticing any changes at all. THANKS to your reply, I'm going to give the two days per two weeks (then three days?) with both fisetin and the Senolytic Activator a try!
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Yes, I will definitely be starting the Rapamycin soon as well as continuing the senolytic therapy. I have been tweaking my diet since my early 20s and exercise as I can. I have chronic Lyme Disease so all this is a challenge. My motto, "Live long and suffer!" I figure if I can live long enough, maybe there will be some answers to the Lyme conundrum.
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Michael Avenoso
my understanding is serval herbs treat Lyme effectively. But, going away from the herbs, high dose vitamin C,D, and NAD+ therapy is suppose to be magic for CLD.
it’s NEVER too late to get better. Just don’t think it will always be this way.
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Michael Avenoso There have been alot of advancements in chronic lyme. From biofilm busters, persister cell treatments like disulfarim, pulsing antibiotics, abx combos for persister cells. I would try all of those if you havent already. Find a good lyme doc or just treat yourself.
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Michael Avenoso in the event you need an internist with Lyme specialty, if you are in the Charlottesville area I can give you a contact.
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Thanks everyone. I've been dealing with chronic Lyme since 1991. Tried all the above including Disulfiram and NAD infusions. Mild HBO therapy has gotten me somewhat functional again.
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Michael Avenoso You tried all those approaches and failed? Well if all else has failed then you should read this book.
Lyme Disease Supercharge: The Revolutionary Approach to Getting Better When All Else Fails
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Fred Cloud Thanks Fred. I explored mold illness with Ritchie Shoemaker. M.D. Unfortunately it didn't help. At this point I am simply trying to stay alive long enough for an effective therapy to be discovered.
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Michael Avenoso Hi, Michael -- I did not check all your postings, but noticed mention of Lyme, so thought I'd mention a site I've been familiar with for number of years:
https://www.betterhealthguy.com/
In addition to having had Lyme, he has had other issues, but has much info, etc, how he has flourished.
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Michael_B Thanks Michael, I am familiar with him. He's an excellent resourse.
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Michael Avenoso Based on just some of your postings, I assume you were familiar with BetterHealthGuy. Have you solved your Lyme issue? I understand especially for allopathic community it is mostly a puzzle, but I think many holistics have treated it successfully. Ozone IV's? Regards,
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Michael_B I haven't done IVs with O3 but I do have a medical grade ozonator and and have used it extensively. My best results came from using a mild hyperbaric chamber daily for a long time. Paired with a Ketogenic diet I went from a wheelchair to hiking the local trails.
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Michael Avenoso By medical grade, I assume you mean with oxygen tank, and ability to adjust flows. Ozone rectal insufflation is about 80-90% as effective as o3 IVs, per Frank Shallenberger, MD, whom taught many of the practitioners.
Do you also have a steam cabinet, where ozone can flow in? That would immerse entire body in o3, after the heat / sweat, opens the pores. For general health I use 100 degrees, 20 minutes, at about 20 - 25 gamma. For you --and others -- one might find a colonic practice / chiro / spa, where one could try a few sessions, prob at about $75 - $125 per session.
Keto (esp organic) likely best for all illness. I tried the portable, inflatable hyperbaric at my holistic MD prob 20+ years ago, but was too claustrophobic. Besides the larger units (some one can sit/stand) have greater capabilities, but I have not even tried that - yet. It appears you have investigated the better holistic options re Lyme. Maybe senolytics, Rapa, etc, may provide additional synergies. Best wishes,
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Michael_B Wow, we have been down some of the same paths! Yes O2 tank and flexible settings. I did rectal insufflations for months with no benefit related to Lyme Sx. I use a sauna but only tried the O2 steam cabinet a few times but I just didn't like the experience.
I agree on the Keto diet as a medical intervention. I did it for 2 years along with the mild HBO with amazing results. I am currently low carb but not Keto. Many people confuse the two.
I have experimented with Dasatinib/Quercetin and Rapamycin. Currently taking Life Extension's "Senolytic Activator" and planning on restarting Rapamycin.
Be well!
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Michael Avenoso I knew there was at least one nut, similar to myself. Re diet, I'm organic Paleo, which is basically keto, but some vegs, even some carbs.
I started Rapa about a month ago, but going slowly, Sat morning I took 3 mg; will build to 5-6 over next few weeks. I still do F + Q, never tried D.
Ozone has been effective re Lyme. I've gong over the years number of times to David Minkoff, MD, FL, whom has a large practice with Lyme patients flying in. Shallenberger says O3 insufflation is about 90% as good as o3 IV, so surprised you have not recd benefits.
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Fisetin in high doses just makes me feel sick, I don't get then when taking Quercitin .
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Kelly K Just be careful how regularly you take Q. When it was given to mice every day it reduced their lifespan by a lot. It has a toxicity and the benefit seems to derive from occasional harnessing of that toxicity. Personally I'm only considering Quercetin for D+Q type hit and run therapies. Fisetin daily on the other has some genuine advantages I've seen myself, some mentioned by folks in the thread above, but anything regular 100mg sounds fine. As detailed above even just 500mg Fisetin had some sort of accompanied immune reaction.
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Jack Black
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Van Dr Green as dropped Q from the protocol. It is now Fistein 2,000 mg + Dasatinib 100 mg. x 2 days once a month or once every 2 weeks. Not for your reasons, but Fistein works so much better. Young people 2 days every 3 months
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Van So it's now F+D ? Wow hadn't heard that. Interesting.
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Van What's his definition of young? I'm 50 and certainly my doctors describe that as young. :)
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