Fisetin to Clear Senescent Cells
Following studies with mice that showed significant senolytic clearance of senescent cells following large doses of the readily available flavenoid supplement Fisetin, my wife and I (ages 79 and 84) decided to try it. We have just completed two sets of massive Fisetin doses.
We had Life Extension blood-work done in October before the start, and we will have more again next week to observe any changes. The first set of Fisetin doses was on October 22-25 with 800 mg/day for three days followed by 600 mg on the fourth day, for a total of 4 g. I didn't notice much in the way of effects. Perhaps some reduction of small aches and pains and some increase in energy and mental acuity.
For the second set of doses done November 22-26, since we experienced no negative side effects in the first set we decided to increase the dosage a bit and to add 10 mg of BioPerine, a supplement that is reputed to magnify the effects and potency of flavenoids. For five days starting on Thanksgiving we took 500 mg of Fisetin and 10 mg of BioPerine twice per day, for a total of 5 g of Fisetin.
This time. I did experience one negative side effect. A few months ago, about 2 AM in the morning I awoke from a deep sleep and experienced a severe episode of vertigo. I turned over in bed, and the the whole room seemed to tilt. Suddenly, I didn't know which way was up. I staggered to the bathroom and vomited. The symptoms tapered off and disappeared in a few days, but it was a very distributing experience.
On the 2nd day of our 2nd Fisetin series, I experience a recurrence of that vertigo in the middle of the night, not as bad as my initial experience but still rather disturbing. I tolerated this mild vertigo and continued the treatment. My wife had no similar symptoms, and after my last dose I experienced no further vertigo symptoms.
On the positive side, following the second set of dosages I did feel very well, and very sharp and alert. This past weekend I ran my Shetland Sheepdog Taliesin in an AKC Canine Agility Trial in Mt. Vernon, WA, and we did very well, qualifying in 7 runs out of 15 and getting various colored placement ribbons. I was feeling quite sharp, and I even invented a new dog-handling technique that fixed an ongoing problem we were having.
Next week we will do the blood-work again, and I'll report any changes.
-
This encompasses 3 senolytics, Fistein, Azithromycin, and Dasatinib.
Dr. Green has a new website targeting https://senolyticstreatment.com/. He points out that there are 4 different types of senolytics. (zombie cells) and there are different treatments which target each one. He suggests using Fistein 1500 mg x 3 consecutive days x every 3 months for aging purposes. (they are using 20mg/kg in Mayo Clinic trials x 2 consecutive days in elderly patients, as yet unpublished results) Azithromycin 500 mg x 3 spread over 1 week x every 3 months. (targets fibroblast) Dasatinib 100 mg x 3 consecutive days x every 3 months. He has set up a compounding pharmacy to make Dasatinib affordable for his patients. I order powder from China. The frequency is more often for treating specific diseases. He believes that Rapamycin slows down senescence, but cannot remove them. Please refer to his website for additional info.
The following is an interview by Dr. Blagosklonny for his Aging article.
Aging, COVID-19 and more Interview with Alan S. Green, M.D., who practices medicine in New York state, and who, in 2016, began to treat patients with rapamycin (Sirolimus), an anti-aging drug. Interview was taken via email on March 31, 2020, by Editor Dr. Blagosklonny for the journal Aging. Question 1: How many patients and for how long have you treated with rapamycin? Answer 1: Patient number 1 is myself, treated for 4 years. An additional 480 patients treated from 3 years to present. Question 2: Rapamycin (Sirolimus) and its analog Everolimus are FDA-approved drugs used in millions of patients with several severe diseases for many years. Based on a few murine models, some people believe that rapamycin may have unacceptable side effects, even though rapamycin extended the health span and life span of mice in these studies. Have you noticed side effects in your patients? Answer 2: Rapamycin in older persons is very beneficial for the brain, heart, muscle, joints, insulin sensitivity, decreasing visceral fat, and prevention various age-related diseases. Rapamycin is a very potent drug and good results dependent on proper dose and interval. My patients show good results with sirolimus [rapamycin] 2 to 8 mg once a week. Major side effect in that range is decrease in activity innate immune system. To extent chronic inflammation is harmful in aging, this is generally beneficial. The basic researchers I follow are Matt Kaeberlein and Veronica Galvan who have recently shown excellent protection against normative aging in heart (dogs) and brain (rats). I have observed those same beneficial results in older humans. Question 3: Z-pak (Azithromycin) that you prescribed to your patients (just in case of possible bacterial complications) is now considered a promising drug to treat COVID-19. Would you like to comment? Also, it was published in Aging by Sargiacomo et al, that Azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine are senolytics, drugs that selectively kill senescent cells. Answer 3: A natural tension always exists between treating physicians who use standard of "reasonable degree of medical certainty" and government scientists who use standard of "definitive proof" and dismiss anything short of definitive proof as "anecdotal". (Perfect is the enemy of Good). As regards recent paper in Aging by Sargiacomo et al, that was an extraordinary important paper connecting COVID-19, aging, senescent cells and senolytics. In 2017 paper, Blagosklonny noted role of Doxycycline and other antibiotics as anti-aging drugs. Azithromycin looks like major drug in prevention and treatment COVID-19. I use same dose used in Cystic fibrosis study (500 mg 3 times a week) in which Azithromycin appears to be acting as senolytic.
-
JGC I just talked to Dr. Green a few days ago. I was patient 517. He hasn't talked to anyone who is a patient of his that has contracted covid. He said if any of his patients contracted it the symptoms were not big enough to get a test to verify they had it.
-
JOHN Business is picking up in spite of the Wuhan. I saw him in March and i was patient 480.
-
Randy B Interesting! I was very impressed with him. My wife and I saw him as a couple. I have been going on and on about him to her for the past year. She was a little reserved until we met him. We spent 5 hours in his office. It was fantastic. I talked to him about a bunch of studies that I had questions about and he had clear and concise answers. He's a brilliant guy. He finished med school at the age of 24 and has a law degree. He said getting his law degree was a piece of cake compared to a medical degree. He looks great for his age as well and I hope I'm a patient of his for a long time.
-
JOHN JOHN Saw Dr Green the first time 3.5 years ago.....glad I had made the trip....just had appt with him 3 weeks ago....referred a few new patients to him....yes, instead of fading, he is really quite sharp....worried about that.....but he is definitely holding up well.
-
-
Hello Van. Thanks for this info. Are you able to advise the name of your Chinese supplier for dasatinib? Being in Canada, I cannot see, or be prescribed drugs by Dr. Green and don't know of any age-reversing docs up here. At the moment I am using several "natural" products that replicate a natural rapalogue from Germany as well as berberine/PQQ, Niagen and resveratrol. Due to almost daily migraines, I cannot fast beyond 12 hours. Applying apocynin to specific areas but not seeing or feeling any difference. My main problem seems to be lack of energy, which I attribute to having a few too many zombies. Many thanks!
-
Antonia Gauer My supplier no longer ships Dasatinib. I am working up a new order, with a new supplier for Dasatinib and Fistein powder and will post my order here in the next week. Of course, anyone can check with Alibaba and there are many suppliers of these drugs including Rapamycin.
-
Van thank you. I regularly buy from AliBaba but feel uncomfortable with the powder quality. You are the guinea pig that survived :). The other issue is the Canadian inspection system. Anything powdery coming in from China is opened and I wonder if this scheduled drug would be confiscated. More likely than not it would. Back to the rapalogue I guess. And trying to fast.
-
Antonia Gauer I am concerned about the purity but I also don’t feel qualified to make doses such as a 4mg to 6mg dose from a 1kg bag of rapamycin powder.
-
David H Do you have one of those scales that people use for drugs? They are very accurate. I used one for my husband's IV cocktail when he was very ill. Sadly, his condition had gone too far, but the scales were very accurate. They come with little weight testers for accuracy.
-
Antonia Gauer I was suspect of China also at the beginning until I read an article that most of the drug manufactures in US order there raw materials from China. They were running out of reagents for testing for Covid-19. The reagents came from China. If it is good enough for Merck and Pfizer, it's good enough for me. Alibaba which is bigger than Amazon guarantees that you will get the product you order and they take CC. I ordered by Rapa from China and I got exactly what I ordered at a very reduced price. Remember China is 4 x the size of US and has 1,000 of companies competing for your dollars.
There is no mixing powders here. You simply weigh the grams/milligrams that you are taking and put in glass, add water, and drink it. Not too difficult. My Rapa was a little more complex, but not applicable here.
-
David H It is not difficult to mix the 2 powders together. Just take 1 gram of Rapa and mix with 250 grams of Lactose powder per these instructions. You can use a large tablespoon and a large ceramic or glass bowl and follow this video.
video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-3DoyKy0zE
Once you are finished mixing. You would simply weight out .25 gram (250 mg) per mg. Rapa. If taking 5 mg that would work out to be 5 x .25 = 1.25 grams per week of the mixture. The reason for mixing with a lot of lactose is so you can measure accurately.
If I can do it at 74 yo's most others can also. Ordering Rapa tablets from Canada and using grapefruit juice or not, also works. The main thing is to slow the aging down and feel better physically and mentally.
-
Van Interesting. I have purchased pharmaceuticals from India for the same reason. Unfortunately, the pharmacy no longer delivers to Canada. Also, whenever I have had any powders delivered from China, they come with a huge "Opened by Customs Canada" sticker and some of the product is missing due to testing for naughties. I wonder if dasatinib can be identified as a prescription drug as there are huge penalties for importing scheduled drugs. By the way, after I mentioned the scale on this site yesterday, in response to a comment, it appeared in my "Amazon suggestions." I have never searched nor have I purchased anything to do with measurement on Amazon. Big Brother...
-
Antonia Gauer Well it is clear that this web site is selling your info to others. Guess that is the way they support there cost to run this site. If you ordered dasatinib, 3-5 grams from China it would come in an business envelope delivered by Fedex. It is really the same size as a letter. I live in Spain and they are also very strict, but I got my Rapa without a problem, but one never knows. You can ask them if they have ever delivered to Canada and try to make an informed decision from there. Good Luck
-
Van Thanks. I will try that.
-
Moonlitnight If you can make the trip to La Guardia and UBER out to him in Littleneck it is worth the time....stay in a local hotel near by if need by, I have....seen him for 3 years.....not sure but if you get the first visit you can likely do televisit followups......I did that last month...televisit..... But you have to go in for first visit....but a great investment
-
GEdwards Thank you for this info. It would be cost prohibitive for me at this point and the latest set of rules regarding the virus wont permit "non-essential" travel. But in the future maybe!
-
Moonlitnight Well you don't need to see him, you can just procure the rapamycin on your own and skip Dr Green altogether. I assume seeing Dr green is for people who dont know how to obtain the rapa on their own or dont feel comfortable in doing so.
-
Fred Cloud Moonlitnight
https://www.dropshipmd.com/buy/rapacan/
Said it could take 30 days = arrived in one week
30 1mg tabs = $117 (including WU fee)
-
Michael Thank you! I will check to see if they deliver above the 49th.
-
Moonlitnight Send me your address. I'll mail you half of mine. Strictly for academic purposes.
-
Moonlitnight Moonlitnight Hi MLNight,. Understood about cost having been laid off due to CV19 and my company being sold for assets. I never know the varying restrictions and just saw my nephew and family FaceBook sharing their flight to Orlando from Houston for vacation...all masked up but on vacation nonetheless.
Please be cautious about foreign supplies, wasted a fair amount of time and done money buying foreign Biocon brand 'rapamune' that priced to be very very low dose vs the label. I have arthritis in both hands that respond results to Pfizer Rapamune and generic Sirolimus bought thru pharmacies..... There is very good quality control from regulated sourced or many transplanted patients would be doing of severe organ rejection. After taking the fake 'Rapamune' my hand began to ache again with a return to sharp intermittent pain. Even doing this phone text to you would have been a real challenge! I asked my wife to give me either another dose of Biocon or generic Sirolimus for the next two weekly cycles '3mg' with Grape fruit juice (white 10oz) and within 36 the pain abated till the next dose of Biocon sourced 'Rapamune' the next week when my hand quickly became problematic. In that Rapamycin addresses systemic inflammation this is understandable. My wife confirmed what my hands 'told' me. I had to then take 10 Biocon pills with GF juice to get any positive response.... That would have been about 30mgs if on fact the Biocon pills were full dose 1mg strength. They clearly were not. There is a list of doctors on this web site (not this blog) for Doctors that help patients address aging and I'd hope you might find one regionally available. I was checking this option here in Colorado when a friend that I referred to Dr. Green said he got a telemedicine visit and I could do the same since I was already a patient.
I visited with Dr. Green and he asked me to try a Sirolimus 3mg pill that a compounding pharmacy was providing. I took it Friday with GF juice (which should be the biologically available equivalent to 10mgs) as what would be my normal dose and so far it looks good but I need to track my response thru this Thursday to get an idea on actual strength of it.
I also get my Dasatinib thru this same counting pharmacy and it's too is potentiated by GF juice so both these meds are easily stretched on cost by GF juice helping with that cost issue.... But both require a prescription.
Best of luck and I'd enjoy hearing more from you.
Greg
-
-
I ordered my Dasatinib and Fisetin powders from the following Alibaba supplier. https://hhdpharm.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.362a73f6ugETpH#top-nav-bar. Used Emily. This is the same supplier that furnished Rapa for other members in this forum. Need to make sure that you get 98% Fisetin vs 50%. Both are sold. Dasatinib is 99% only, I believe. I paid $245 for 5 grams Dasatinib, and 50 grams of Fisetin. That includes $50 Fedex shipping. So cost is Dasatinib = 120/5= $24 gram Fisetin = 120/50 = $2.40 gram. This includes shipping. Saved on shipping by ordering both at same time. This does not include Visa CC charge of 3% = $7.20 which is really the cheapest way to pay, and you have CC guarantees. Will update group once I receive it. Noticed that Fisetin on line is starting to get expensive vs just a few months ago. The word is getting out. It takes around 5 grams for one quarterly dose of Fisetin, so those little 30 tab bottles (100mg) they sell are worthless, and expensive. I had no problem with receiving my Rapa order from China which was only a business size envelope delivered by Fedex, but this one is going to be larger. Will have to wait and see. For those without experience using powders, this is the way to go. Buy a jewelers scale that measures to .001 gm. = 1 mg. for about $30. Usually includes calibration weights. The lower the max weight, the more accuracy you get. Mine has a max weight of 20 grams, but goes to 1/1000. You only need to weigh once a week for Rapa and quarterly for senolytics.
-
Van Thank you for the Alibaba link. Today, I ordered 1 gram of rapamycin from them. I already had Dasatinib from IAS. Easy ordering process - now to buy a milligram scale.
-
David H When you order the .001 mg scale, try and buy one with calibration weights. Also, you will need some lactose powder. 250 grams should do it. Good Luck
-
-
I'm hearing that sulforafane may be more powerful than quercetin? So why not take both.
