Should we be taking oral NR/NMN?
In the YouTube video post I have a new one with David Sinclair with a few interesting tidbits. One is that NR/NMN, if not kept cold, degrade into a form which you definitely do not want in your body (he didn't specify exactly what the issue was). Collaborating this, the NAD+ patches I take from MedLab Pharmacy comes in a cold package and is specified to be stored in the refrigerator. The one I got from another pharmacy - I forget the name but it's in the MidWest, did not and it turned brown after a month or so.
This makes me wonder if we should be doing oral supplementation at all, why not just a semi regular protocol of patches? Is the oral form kept chilled at the distributor (no - LE has no mention of this AFAIK) and it's not sent chilled to us. It's also quite expensive, so it seems to me that perhaps a better approach is to just do without it.
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From the Dr. Rhonda Patrick podcast notes are further details:
(See https://podcastnotes.org/2019/11/06/david-sinclair-rhonda-patrick-nad-nr-nmn/ for completes notes of this podcast)
* “Make sure your NR and NMN is kept in the cold. If it’s just on the shelf, and not in a stabilized form, it will degrade into nicotinamide, which is something you don’t want to take high doses of.” – David Sinclair
* Why? – Nicotinamide actually inhibits sirtuins, thus interfering with DNA repairAlso from the same podcast notes:
NAD+ Boosters | NR and MNM
* For background, humans make NAD+ from a variety of natural molecules. However, you can also supplement with NAD+ precursors (and it might be a good idea to as NAD+ declines with age).
* (Why not just supplement with NAD? – It’s too large of a molecule and cells won’t uptake it)---------------------
This last statement about NAD - I have heard David Sinclair say this more than once during his public presentations and interviews.
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Listen to the Dr. Rhonda Patrick - David SInclair YouTube video (posted a few days ago) from 36:00 to 38:00 where David Sinclair says that NAD is too big to enter cells.
Listen starting at 57:50 where he talks about the reason that NMN and NR needs to be kept cold in a fridge or freezer.
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With respect to keeping NMN cold, here is an opposing view:
https://www.garmaonhealth.com/is-your-nmn-supplement-safe-and-potent/
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New here... I use Tru Niagen and the question of refrigeration was asked on their FB page. Their response was:
Hello Mike, TRU NIAGEN® does not need to be refrigerated. That’s because Tru Niagen® is formulated with a crystalline form of nicotinamide riboside chloride. This crystalline form is shelf stable stored under the recommended conditions listed on the Tru Niagen® bottle. ChromaDex specifically formulates our products to enhance the overall stability and quality. We also conduct our own internal testing and development to ensure the bottle contains what is stated on the Tru Niagen® label. Thank you
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I asked the help desk at Genex. Here's their reply:
I think you may be asking this due to the recent interview between Ronda and David. In regards to the NMN cold question, NMN in its raw form is vulnerable and must be kept in a freezer or cold storage. The NMN raw material we use is kept in cold storage all the way up to production. Once the production is completed, it is now stabilized and protected from moisture and light. The product is then kept in a climate-controlled environment. If you listen to the discussion, Sinclair is talking about NMN that if not in a stabilized form, degradation of the product will occur. However, once production is completed, it is then stabilized and protected from light and moisture and has a good shelf life of about 2 years (as long as kept in a cool dry place). Once the bottle is open however, it is now exposed and can start degrading. This is usually not an issue though since the product is a 30 day supply and degradation during that time is minimal. The biggest issue with NMN degrading has to do with moisture, which can cause NMN to breakdown. NMN will hydrolize over-time so it is important to protect it. We include a moisture pack in all our NMN bottles to protect against moisture, and our bottle is opaque, which protects against light. That said, you can store it in your fridge or freezer once you open it if you are more comfortable.
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Can anyone break this down to me? I got introduced to the idea through a betteraging article, is this a precursor of NAD+? What is it with oral intake of NAD+ in comparison to other forms?
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Aaron Lahm
Dr. David Sinclair is a professor at Harvard who runs a lab that has done research on NR/NMN. He says that he is not in a position to make recommendations, but is open about what he does himself. I think we can say that he recommends reading his book, Lifespan. It certainly gives a positive message about NMN.
So this scientist who looks like he's in his early 30's is actually 50. The latest thing that he's talking about is taking a gram of NMN per day. I'll have what he's having...
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A new video from Dr. Patrick
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I started to take NMN powder sublingually. I noticed it has acid taste. Since NMN contains a phosphoric acid residue it has acid pH. I also remember that some time ago dentists used 30% phosphoric acid to prepare dentin surface. Phosphoric acid has very strong detrimental effect on teeth. So my question is do you think it is safe FOR TEETH to take NMN sublingually?
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You could get some test strips to test the pH of the saliva in your mouth with the NMN in there. If the ph is equal to or greater than if you were holding a mouthful of CocaCola then that is bad news for your teeth. Even at lower pH, duration of acidic exposure becomes a factor.
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Dorian Gray I think I’m not understanding. More acidic is a lower ph.
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Karl Yes, lower number more acidic. You can get Hydrion 5.5-8.0 pH strips. See: www.microessentiallab.com Good for testing urine and saliva.
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Hello, there is a liposomal version of NMN from Quicksilver Scientific called NAD+ Gold. Has anyone tried it? I have not tried it.
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You can take oral B3, (NMN, NR) but should be at least 1000 mg. This assures that it will get thru the liver to the rest of the body to replace NAD levels. Here are 3 videos by a trusted MD who has no businesses like Sinclair. Make your own decision about who is more trust worthy. Sinclair has made millions by selling reservatrol, and NMN. 3 videos from 2017-2020.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq-s7rDuLnc
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Van I watched videos. The last is is especially good as it also provides a guideline on trying one drug at a time and observing results before proceeding.
some nmn/nr facts as I see them1 dr Sinclair is an advisor to metrobiotech LLC which owns the mnm patent.
2 Dr Sinclair actively seeks out celebrity status. I believe he does so for career advancement and financial gains always touting something like his book etc.
3 Dr Rabinowitz study which traced nmn/nr after I take and clearly showed that very little of it escapes liver and if it does then it gets in the other cell as nicotinamide.
4 nmn gets up converted to nad+ which then gets used up and becomes nicotinamide anyway which gets either methylated or converted back to nmn. So what’s the theoretical advantage of nmn here, it works better the first time around? Are there any studies on humans to prove such a claim?
5. Niacinamide appears to be sirt1 inhibitor. But nmn will become niacinamide anyway so maybe the whole thing for longevity supplementation is futile. It may make you more alert and lower your blood pressure but will it make you live longer? 4.6 % lifespan extension in mice is not that encouraging and may translate into no gains or even lifespan shortening in humans.
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>(he didn't specify exactly what the issue was)
He says it degrades into nicotinamide.
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Longevity Reinvented: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN) Explained
