Treatment for Reducing Arterial Plaque and Imflammatory Cells:
I would like to start this as a focused topic.
Background: I’m 69, have followed Bill Faloon / Life extension protocols for about 10 years. Doing the Dasatinib / Quercetin and Rapamycin treatments since mid last year. I have very low body fat, eat very healthy and have outstanding blood work. Model ldl/GSK triglycerides. Very low inflammatory markers.
Now I have 2 stints. Fixed 95 and 90% blockages in two main arteries. I was fortunate to go in to ER before some serious heart damage happened.
So digging into why: Plaque accumulation on the inner area of the artery wall.
So for me, figuring out how to REDUCE plaque seems like the biggest life extension action I can take. And I am sure this is true for many others.
Consulting with my heart doctor was not fruitful. He prescribed the cookbook set of meds: 10 mg of Lipitor, 40mg of Avorstatin, 61 mg aspirin, 75 mg Plavix (clopidogrel).
I got some good advise from folks on another forum herein. Found Avorstatin helps LDL/HDL but does nothing for plaque or inflammation. I’m now taking 40mg of Crestor, in place of the Avorstatin.
See Birmingham Medical News, New Plaque Study highlights Power of Crestor.
Other: I’m looking to change Lipitor blood pressure med to Ramipril. This product seems to lower inflammation levels in the blood, whereas Lipitor does not.
Questions for discussion:
What else can we do to reduce plaque?
Is there something we are doing in our healthy protocols which causes more plaque buildup?
Cellular Inflammation in the Blood: how is this really measured? How do we reduce naturally? Do any of our senolytic treatments knock this down?
All: please pass along any good research things you have seen.
This is a great group!
Bob, I am 79 year old male who had bypass surgery 26 years ago. Shortly thereafter I got involved with Life Extension and read several articles by an author named Dr. William Davis in the LEF magazine. He also authored a book entitled "Track Your Plaque".
I visited him in his office in Wisconsin. To make a long story short, he put me on lipitor and FISH OIL. The change in my blood chemistry was miraculous. The fish oil lowered my triglycerides significantly and also changed my LDL particle size to the large fluffy type that does not contribute to plaque. My carotid intima thickness has not changed in 20 plus years.
I get my oil from Costco and it is Natures Bounty The Kirkland brand is also good based on Consumer Labs analysis. I daily take about 5 grams of EPA/DHA from six capsules.
Note you have your statins and BP meds mixed up. Lipitor is a statin and not a blood pressure med. I take lipitor as it does not "seem"to cause as many issues as Zocor or Crestor. I cannot take Zocor as it elevates my liver enzymes. I have friends who cannot take Crestor due to mind fog.
I also take Ramapril for blood pressure control. It is considered by some to be "antiaging" as it activates the "Klotho"gene. You can check this out on google.
Also note that fish oil has myriad of other benefits and in my opinion (retired fish biologist) may very well be as important as other antiaging topics on this forum.
Finally, the above is based on my experience and I must emphasize that I am not a medical dr.
Best of Luck to you
Look into high doses of the Vitamin K fraction MK7. Several studies have shown calcification reversal of aortic valves. There are several ongoing studies now pertaining to plaque/calcification reversal. Typically you'd want to take about 380 mcg/day
Also consider testing for Lp(a) as it is a genetic risk factor for heart disease.
Hey, great post! Are you saying that Senolitics + Rapamycin didn't seriously impact (or improve) arterial blockages? If so, kinda surprising. Thanks for sharing!! PS: I'm really liking the effects of Fisetin (2g x 2, every 3 weeks). I generally feel healthier the week after taking it. (Be it testosterone boost or whatever---blood work coming soon. Also it's a strong antiviral, with some strange blisters appearing then healing like an acne coming to head).
To Gokhan, Paul B., Randy B., Andrew Y: Your response to Bob M"s inquiry on inflammation and plaque has significant benefit for the average person, but if this is only what I followed, I would be dead. I need my statin and fish oil to stay alive. Attached is a more recent paper on intermittent fasting which addresses the benefits for cardiovascular issues. There is no question that it is beneficial for a number of health issues.
However it is not sufficient for me. I have been a vegetarian for 5 years and on 5:2 diet for the past two years. I take a statin and big dose fish oil and my LDL is still marginal ( 85). My cardiologist wants to increase my statin dose. I have survived 26 years after my bypass without additional efforts, which has a probability of less than 5 %. I attribute this to my statin and fish oil. Attached is one of many references attesting to the benefits of a statin and fish oil combined.
If you check the volumes of references on google, you will find a conclusion that about 35 percent of the population needs a statin. Also, as indicated immediately above, there are benefits for integrating a statin with fish oil. Many of the references to this combination are derogatory in term of the value of non prescription fish oil. You would think the authors work for big pharma. You can check with Consumer Labs as to whether or not the over the counter brands fish oil are what they are supposed to be.
My suggestion to Bob since his condition, like mine, appears to be very severe is to continue his Crestor, do a CBC, lipid profile along with a VAP blood test and than start with fish oil (about 4 grams total of EPA and DHA) and repeat the blood work about 3 months latter. He can purchase the blood tests through LEF rather cheaply (God Bless LEF). He can also purchase the fish oil from LEF and be assured that it meets specification.
This brings me to the issue of fish oil benefits in general. LEF has multiple articles on the benefits of fish oil for numerous biological systems. Barry Sears has written extensively on the benefits (emphasizing reduction in inflammation) and published many books.. Another reference of particular importance to me (I am almost 80 years old) is a book entitled "The Omega 3 Connection" by Andrew Stall, 2001. The Stall book is about the benefits of fish oil in preventing dementia as well as a number of other neurological problems. Note, at 85 years old, 50 % of the population has some form of dementia. I just saw a recent peer reviewed paper that estimated fish oil with Vitamin B complex reduced alzheimers by 75 %.
If you read all of this, God Bless and please try not to hold any grudges, thank you.
Peter, You are preaching to the choir about intermittent fasting (IF). I did it for 10 years and I did "real" IF. I ate nothing for 34 hours every other day. I make that distinction because so many people are doing the 5:2 diet (and similar) and think they are doing IF... They are not! Having done IF for 10 years (and Calorie Restriction for 10 prior) I have yet to see IF or a similar regime have the ability to reverse plaque in a timely manner. It is a very slow process. MK7 is probably the best choice for a "quick" reversal of plaque (and even then we are talking a good 1 to 3 years).
I'm surprised so many people are tracking their LDL-C and thinking it somehow relates to heart disease? Your LDL-C of 85 is absolutely meaningless. What is your LDL-P?
Randy B: I have not done a LDL-P test for 20 years, since my meetings with Dr. Davis after my bypass. Note the VAP test I suggested to BobM includes a LDL-P test. I use LDL-C as a marker and it is not "absolutely meaningless". It saves me about $75 twice a year in terms of not paying LEF for the bloodwork for LDL-P.
LDL-C It has value once you establish your baseline. If I see my LDL-C go much higher, I will become more aggressive which includes an evaluation with a VAP test. As I indicated in my second response to BobM, it appears to work for me as I have not had another cardiovascular event in past 26 years. I also use the Triglyceride/HDL-C ratio (see Barry Sears) as a biomarker..
i do not know if MK-7 works, but fish oil unquestionably does based on extensive personnel experience as well as extensive literature. if BobM has a serious problem, and it appears that he does, I suggest that he read the references on fish oil and proceed accordingly which includes the VAP test. He will also benefit from the other extensive health benefits that fish oil offers.
By the way, I do get extensive MK-7 from LEFs "Health Booster".
I have no personal experience of it, but one therapy that some people say can reduce plaque is Vascular Rejuvenation using EDTA.
Here is a link:
Peter, LDL-C is worthless, absolutely worthless as a marker for heart disease. You need LDL-P tested. If LDL-P is normal/low, you are "safe" regardless of what your LDL-C is. If your LDL-C is low (aka good) and your LDL-P is high you are a walking time bomb.
The VAP test was worthless too that's why it was withdrawn from the market several years ago. I see it is back. The reason it was originally withdrawn (my conjecture) is that they were using some algorithm to Compute the various forms of cholesterol. They never showed data that proved their algorithm was accurate. Yeah, they claim they stopped the test because of investor support but I don't buy that flimsy story.
As far as LEF and MK7 you are getting a small fraction of what studies show you need to remove plaque from your arteries, which is close to 400 mcg/day. And remember LEF was selling a watered down version for years of MK7 that was a racemic mixture.. and claiming it was all Trans.
Randy:, will stay with my approach. It worked for 26 years. Your LDL-P is better (is part of VAP test) if starting from scratch. I do not know details about MK 7, but fish oil is my preferred approach to block inflammation and prevent plaque and is backed up with several thousand peer reviewed studies. Check out the books by Sears and others. Fish oil also has multiple other health benefits in numerous other systems.
On the EDTA Suggestion by Olsson, it also has merit and has risk assessment in Forever Healthy. It has been around for many years.
This is a brief followup to the many excellent replies on this topic. First, a big that you to all!
I consider my root cause problem to be plaque buildup. Not too much of an inflammation issue.
I have been on a strict low carb and high veg diet for many many years. And heart healthy eating.
Diet including large daily doses of LIfeExt Olive oil (exceptional), 3000 mg of high quality fish oils, LIfeExt Vit K2 SuperK Elite), 300mg pycnogenol, 1000 mg metformin ER and AMPK activator, curcumin elite, immune senescence, and the monthly large doses of fisetin, weekly senolytic activator, weekly rapamycin, 2x/year dasatinib. More...
Labs: 2x/year. Last result in part (before stints and new changes):
total cholesterol: 138
HDL Cholesterol: 52
LDL Cholesterol: 72
T.Chol/HDL Ratio: 2.7 (much less than 1/2 the average risk)
Estimated CHD Risk: <0.5
C-Reactive Protein, cardiac: 0.81 (risk for future cardiac event is LOW if under 1.)
white Blood count: 3.1 (low)
Hemoglobin A1c: 5.1 (I used to be 6.1, controlled it with diet and exercise, then added metformin, more for life extension benefits.
Note: my statin Med change from 10 mg to 20 mg dose helped those cholesterol/trigl values. But did not do much for plaque.
I've read quite a number of studies now and I don't see any relationship between LDL-c and survival. I fact higher LDL and Tot Cholesterol is better for survival when you are over 65.
Ratio of Tot C to HDL and Trig to HDL are better preditors.
And if you think your statin is doing you good, why not get CAC and CIMT to confirm improvements?
So, you have an MD that says he added Niacin and a Statin and went on low carb and what do you know? He attributes his decrease in plaque to the prescription medicine. This is typical and why people's health are so bad. Doctor's are, for the most part.. bafoons. All he can really say is that taking that combo is what lowered his plaque... nothing else.
From a fact stand point... there has never been a study showing cholesterol levels are related to plaque levels. So that right there probably rules out the contribution of the Statin. There are plenty of peer reviewed studies that show Niacin lowers LDL-Particle Number which is the best predictor of plaque/heart disease. There is also plenty of data showing high insulin promotes plaque.
The real take home message is that the Niacin and low carb diet is what reversed his plaque.
BTW, I've listened to many of this Doc's videos and had lots of interaction with him. He really doesn't understand data analysis. Early in the Covid crisis I told him the models were garbage (I did a lot of modeling in my career and can detect BS). He deleted the comment and called me out in the next video.
Thanks again for everyones help.
Vitamin K2 MK-7 has a lot of potential to actually reduce artery plaque build up.
Here is some good info on the mechanisms of its actions to reduce calcium, plaque and artery stiffening:
K2 MK-7 action: "Activation of matrix Gla protein in the smooth muscle cells of arterial walls. The Matrix Gla protein binds calcium and brings it BACK into blood."
Dose: 180 to 380 mcg daily (from several sources). LEF Super K is not enough....
Peter H. Howe
why do you feel you need berries and sugar?
unfortunately the US public has been sold a false bill of goods in the standard American diet. High carbs and polyunsaturated fat is killing people like you.
our evolutionary design doesn’t like run non glucose.
this video Explores sugar
You can get to a HOMA-IR of less than 1.2 with a Low carb diet, no seed oils and sugar. It’s a matter of will and giving up the ideas pushed by the USDA
thank you for starting this thread it's extremely informative.
my question is where do you purchase your dasatinib?
I I know Bill faloon talked about having a compound drugstore that will make it for the life extension foundation but when I go on that LEF website I don't get anything on dasatinib itself.
Just FYI, Found this interesting, but rather technical:
In here, it also talks briefly about reducing buildups.
So I had my long awaited appointment with my new Cardiovascular Disease Prevention doctor at Mayo Clinic. A Top doc in this field. He reviewed all my data with me. Had spent some time in studying before our meeting. Said I was in the top 1% of people, given my data and what I was doing. Went on to say the most important measurement and goal for me should be reducing LDL to 30. I am now at 49. Am down from 72 a year ago. He rather summarized that all the other testing was noise.
He said I might need a cholesterol absorption blocking drug to get to that number.
Ok, simple enough.
Now today I read the very interesting paper:
I think this paper has a lot of merit, but tainted slightly by the expected future commercial side of the 2 research companies. Of course I will try this as soon as it’s available.
Still want to know how to measure progress... my new doc was not a big fan of CIMT testing. 🤨
On the question of benefits from men giving blood: he said none.
Cheers to all!
Yesterday I had a nice meeting with my naturopathic Dr. She is excellent. We discussed the past 6 months and all the labs etc.
She observed from my NMR blood tests, that my LDL size 19.8nm) was quite small and dense, and noted this was not good for my CVD (although all my other data was very good). You can have lots of large fluffy LDL - no problem. But this small stuff related to plaque buildup. Geese, you would have thought my 3 other MD doctors would have picked up on this!
Her suggested intervention for this was high dosing of niacin. Up to 2000 mg/day, taken together with fish oil. Easy enough!