The Conboy Plasma-Dilution Treatment is Available Now
Recently, watching a video interview of Irina Conboy, I became aware that Conboy plasma-dilution for humans is available in San Francisco and Miami from the medical practice of Dobri Kiprov, MD, who works with and has published with Profs. Irina and Michael Conboy of UC Berkeley. Here are links to videos and writeups about Dr. Kiprov's work on plasma dilution:
https://youtu.be/5gGFJtKIUN0
https://neo.life/2021/06/perspective-therapeutic-plasma-exchange-the-future-of-aging/
https://www.TPEplus.com
I contacted Dr. Kiprov and had a Zoom call with him this morning. Here's what I learned:
- Kiprov's plasma-dilution protocol is slightly different from that described in the Conboy papers. He adds some proprietary ingredients to the saline + albumin to suppress negative immune reactions. I suspect that said reactions are caused by a stabilizer component that is in the albumin.
- Treatment for one person involving two sessions of plasma dilution spaced 2 days apart costs $6,000. There is a discount if a couple both have treatments at the same time.
- Several patients have had Horvath-type DNAm bio-age tests before and after treatment. The apparent epigenetic reset from the treatment is about 3-4 years. Kiprov does not think the epigenetic reprogramming is "permanent".
- The effects of the plasma dilution sessions are cumulative, and Kiprov recommends that they be done monthly for about 6 months, with semi-yearly or yearly treatments after that.
- The observations of recipients are that there are immediate benefits from a plasma dilution session, but they are observed to diminish in a few weeks. This motivates the repeated sessions.
- There are plans to set up more centers to perform plasma-dilution treatments at other population centers around the USA. No decisions yet about where.
I am considering arranging one set of plasma-dilution sessions for my wife and me next December (for ~$10k), but I don't think we can afford a full 6-month series of them (~$60k). Also, I am disappointed to learn that the apparent epigenetic reset of the Conboy treatment is only a few years. According to the paper published with Steve Horvath, Harold Katcher's E-5 treatment on rats produced an epigenetic reset by about a factor of 2.
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Its interesting the effects only last a few weeks. It reminds me of when I was offered Ambrosia young blood plasma, the doc said you feel great for a few weeks and then it wears off. The cost was $8,000. So maybe the conboys are right in terms of adding or subtracting plasma gives the same effect. Katchers methylation treatment is supposed to be permanent and never wear off, but I also think it is working by a completely different process and cant be compared to parabiosis experiments even though they allude to it being similar since they call it a plasma fraction.
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Fred Cloud - Thanks! Interesting article. I agree with the targets they highlight: TGF-beta, IL-6 and TNF-α.
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Fred Cloud only twice? would love to see a whole blood result on inflammation, like TGF beta n TNF
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Lou Hawthorne Speaking of TGF-beta, I ran across this Conboy paper that said the plasma dilution works mainly because it lowers TGF-beta and further states that the ratio of TGF-beta to oxytocin is actually the critical part.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6710051/
Are they suggesting that this approach using 2 compounds can give you the benefits and effectively substitute plasma dilution therapy? -
Fred Cloud – TGF-beta has a couple of negative effects as it rises. It's an immune inhibitor that cancer uses to protect itself. It's also pro-fibrotic driving various fibrotic pathologies. Depleting it would potentially induce a variety of downstream positive effects. A drug that inhibits TGF-beta would have some negative effects that would not occur with TPE.
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Lou Hawthorne Are you sure it would have negative effects or are you just concerned it might?
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Lou Hawthorne My TGFb1 is 1616, I wonder how low it gets after plasma dilution. Maybe one could use it as a comparative marker for TPE versus plasma donation and see how close the two are.
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Fred Cloud TGF-beta, like the inflammatory cytokines, is pleiotropic. It's responsible for positive homeostatic functions in healthy people and also drives multiple pathologies, as explained in the linked article below. Toxicity is expected for the TGF-beta inhibitors under development and is already well-documented for inhibitors of inflammatory cytokines (all the TNF-inhibitors for instance reduce immune competence, with side effects including serious infections and cancer). With all of these molecules, the positive homeostatic effects are achieved through focal, cell-mediated delivery – because systemic release is broadly toxic. TPE is a way of reducing excess circulating levels of these targets without disturbing cell-mediated delivery – because TPE doesn't deplete cells, just soluble factors. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5630004/pdf/cshperspect-TGF-a022301.pdf
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Fred Cloud The comparison strikes me as a good experiment to try. Keep in mind that the main value of both TPE and donation is not in decreased target concentration as measured immediately following TPE or plasma donation. TPE in particular will deplete all plasma targets significantly in a predictable way. The main value is in the immune system remodeling that happens over the next few weeks. Do the targets stay down or do the pop back up? The Conboy's work and patient reports both suggest that remodeling begins to occur with a single TPE treatment, and becomes more durable following some number of additional treatments. That "some number" still requires additional data.
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Lou Hawthorne When you say the immune system popping back up or not sounds more like you are determining efficacy of TPE for auto-immune disorders versus efficacy of rejuvenation or aging reversal. The reason I said short term lowering after treatment was from the conboy paper targeting tgfb1 found rejuvenation by altering the ratio of tgfb:oxytocin only for a week. So it looks like the post treatment levels of the tgfb1 shortly after is critical. I am sure there are other factors in rejuvenation when diluting plasma, but the conboys said they think that most or all of the rejuvenation occurs from just this one pathway.
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Fred Cloud I subscribe to the "inflamm-aging" theory of aging, which states that "inflammation is one of the seven evolutionarily conserved mechanistic pillars of ageing that are shared by age-related diseases..." That's from a Nature article by leaders in the aging field. If true, one implication is that depletion of inflammatory cytokines – which TPE definitely does – is not just useful for autoimmune disease but also for age-related disease and potentially aging itself. Regarding TGF-beta, the Conboys focused on TGF-beta/ALK5 as a way of demonstrating that broad rejuvenation can occur by modulating just a couple of pathways. However, that's not the same as saying that modulating those pathways would be a safe intervention in humans. There's actually already a human drug which blocks the interaction between TGF-beta and ALK5, developed for treating cancer. It has significant cardiac toxicity (article linked below). In the Kiprov/Conboy article from May 2021, they emphasize that TPE depletes a range of progeronic factors: "With aging, the circulation contains numerous signals of tissue damage [12] that are reduced by TPE (Fig. 2), including self-molecules, cellular debris, micro RNAs, lipofuscins, advanced glycation end-products (AGEs), Tau protein aggregates, alpha-synuclein fibrils, and amyloid-β (Aβ) peptides."
Inflamm-aging:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-018-0059-4
Toxicity of TGF-beta inhibitor:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4575352/
Conboy/Kiprov article from May 2021:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1473050221001282
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Lou Hawthorne Makes alot of sense and I agree there is definitely alot of other moving parts in this equation and not just tgfb-1 at work here and TPE would be the most optimal approach to flush known and unknown compounds out of the system. I was only exploring alternative approaches as a second option for those who TPE isnt practical or affordable.
BTW, Lou, do you have plans to do the TPE for antiaging now that there are doctors willing to do it like Kiprov?
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Fred Cloud Kiprov is doing this clinically for anyone?
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Dorian Gray Yes, scroll to the top of this page and read John's post.
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Lou Hawthorne
One thing I do wonder about with dilution therapy is what happens to the persons GDF11 levels, it would certainly dilute and lower those too. The conboys mention the dilution activates stem cells for rejuvenation but gdf11 is heavily involved and crucial for stem cell dna repair and activation but if you are diluting the plasma. I know Conboys mantra is dilution is all you need, nothing else, but parabiosis has been proven to be effective and supplementing gdf11 has been known to give antiaging benefits, just watch Steve Perry presentation. I have been personally taking gdf11 for 2 years and can personally vouch for the benefits in addition to Steves study cohort data he has compiled. So I think one should be supplementing with gdf11 regardless if they are doing dilution but especially if they are doing dilution it should boost gains even further. Perhaps someone that is on gdf11 in Steves group will also do plasma dilution and then we would at least have an indication if he depleted and had to replenish his levels post dilution.
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Fred Cloud ofc combinations would create synergy. Like hitting NAD+ iv after the infusion, red light therapy, other stem cells activators n nad boosters. she just want it to sound like this is so powerful that nothing else is needed, but it will be for optimal results
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Lou Hawthorne Key point missed by most I think.
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JGC You might want to check back as age limits at some places have changed recently (I used CSL plasma at age 67 - think their limit is not 72). Aside from plasma-only facilities, my normal blood bank also does plasma donation, but only monthly. It's still about 25% of plasma volume, and they have no age limit (LifeSouth in florida)
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Thanks so much for the info !
and damn, this was such a disapointment. now i also know why irina never responded to my email. I asked about EU clinics in the future, where they plan to be set up.
And then i asked about the pricing range and said that 600 euro would be a ok price for something like this, but that corperations are greedy so i bet its 1000 euro per session ... but what, 6000 dollars !?? and its suppose to be given multiple times per week and then every month and then every 6 months ... seriously
No thanks, i settle with blood donations and a 80% reduced mortality, increase in stem cells, bone growth, neurogenesis, removal off senesent cells. all for free .......... is this why irina talk down on blood donation "it wont work", cause her treatment will be a robbery money wise so it will sound like her treatment is the only thing that works. hmm
Also its strange that they dident recive better effect from new fresh albumin ? mice study shows 20% increase in lifespan, wich is like rapamycin. also shows better grip strength and darker hair
In the future i will do my own verision of this information.
And that is to buy bigger blood donation bags and do it myself. I think 1000ml is the most we can remove before it gets dangerous. Hit low light laser after, with nad boosters and stem cell activators and vitamin k2 for bone growth. you can trigger an massive respons i would assume.
And if you remove 1000ml instead of 450 on a clinic every 3 months, in a few years that will equal double the health bennefit. And over a lifetime ... damn.
The optimal would be to remove 1500ml blood, inject NAD+ iv in the other directly after, and shoot a few cc albumin in the shoulder. buut, seems like albumin is needed in higher doses, and that 1500 might be very dangerous.
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Burgundy Summer What country do you live in? Here in the US you can donate plasma for free, actually they pay you. So that would dilute the plasma at twice the amount versus when donating blood.
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Fred Cloud hey, I live in sweden. I think its the same here but I rather remove whole blood !
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Burgundy Summer For what reason? The aging factors are in the plasma not the rbc.
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Fred Cloud plasma wont remove heavy metals? Why aren't people remove plasma when they got for example iron overload?
do you think its more metals and senescence cells in plasma then blood?
I have not seen any studies on reduced mortality/bone increase n stem cell from plasma patient?
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Fred Cloud also, from this info thats posted in the thread, it dosent sound to be effective
So if i gonna take those big needles i rather do whats proven to work. 80% reduced mortality sounds great ..
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Fred Cloud and its obviously in the red blood cells the damage also is, due to the health effect of blood removal
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Burgundy Summer No, not obviously. Red blood cells last about 6 weeks, they dont get that old and damaged because they are constantly renewing. Therapeutic effect from removing red blood cells is because is because it lowers ferritin in the process which increases oxidative load in your body and increases dna damage. Also, for every 1 percent increase in serum ferritin, there is a 4 percent increase in the risk of heart attack. But lower is not better, if you remove too much iron you get anemia, so the sweet spot for ferritin is 50-75, go higher and you get an increase in dna damage and death from all causes, go lower and you get anemia and possibly death. Your idea to remove up to 1500ml of blood is completely reckless. Death is known to occur when you remove 2,000ml in the average adult.
I think you need to start doing way more research and way less assumptions.
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