The Conboy Plasma-Dilution Treatment is Available Now
Recently, watching a video interview of Irina Conboy, I became aware that Conboy plasma-dilution for humans is available in San Francisco and Miami from the medical practice of Dobri Kiprov, MD, who works with and has published with Profs. Irina and Michael Conboy of UC Berkeley. Here are links to videos and writeups about Dr. Kiprov's work on plasma dilution:
https://youtu.be/5gGFJtKIUN0
https://neo.life/2021/06/perspective-therapeutic-plasma-exchange-the-future-of-aging/
https://www.TPEplus.com
I contacted Dr. Kiprov and had a Zoom call with him this morning. Here's what I learned:
- Kiprov's plasma-dilution protocol is slightly different from that described in the Conboy papers. He adds some proprietary ingredients to the saline + albumin to suppress negative immune reactions. I suspect that said reactions are caused by a stabilizer component that is in the albumin.
- Treatment for one person involving two sessions of plasma dilution spaced 2 days apart costs $6,000. There is a discount if a couple both have treatments at the same time.
- Several patients have had Horvath-type DNAm bio-age tests before and after treatment. The apparent epigenetic reset from the treatment is about 3-4 years. Kiprov does not think the epigenetic reprogramming is "permanent".
- The effects of the plasma dilution sessions are cumulative, and Kiprov recommends that they be done monthly for about 6 months, with semi-yearly or yearly treatments after that.
- The observations of recipients are that there are immediate benefits from a plasma dilution session, but they are observed to diminish in a few weeks. This motivates the repeated sessions.
- There are plans to set up more centers to perform plasma-dilution treatments at other population centers around the USA. No decisions yet about where.
I am considering arranging one set of plasma-dilution sessions for my wife and me next December (for ~$10k), but I don't think we can afford a full 6-month series of them (~$60k). Also, I am disappointed to learn that the apparent epigenetic reset of the Conboy treatment is only a few years. According to the paper published with Steve Horvath, Harold Katcher's E-5 treatment on rats produced an epigenetic reset by about a factor of 2.
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I and a friend are part of the Conboy/Kiprov - Alzheimer/Fraility study. We have had six treatments each. We each had a methylation age reduction. Each of our treatments was 2.5l replacement with saline/albumin. We both felt better for a while.
My significant improvements are known "side effects", lower blood pressure, liver regeneration. While I did achieve my lowest methylation age reduction of all experimental treatments tried, the Conboys and Kiprov discount this measurement.
I am considering additional treatments, based on measurements and am adding GrimAge measurements to the mix.
In my discussion with the Conboy's, they confirmed that blood donation would be a "cheap and dirty" effective approach. I am supporting a nanotechnology approach to removing "bad stuff" that may come to clinical trial in 1-2 years. I am investigating "affinity column" filtration approach to removing "unwanted materials". I do not want to continue discarding half my plasma long term.
Now that Ambrosia has been bought by Grifols, watch for products derived from "young blood factors".
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Winslow James Foster to call blood donation a cheap and dirty way, is in by itself DIRTY ... who the fuck wanna pay 6000 dollars per treatment to only get a minimum effect.
I personally would much rather do blood donations and then spend 10k on stem cells from fetus.
Bit irritating hering irina put down blood donation, to sell her product -
Winslow James Foster i would say even 600 dollar are to much per time, due to how many times it seems to be needed.
she must gotten so angry from my email calling 500 euro greedy, saying that 250 euro sounds like a good deal. -
Winslow James Foster
You said: "While I did achieve my lowest methylation age reduction of all experimental treatments tried, the Conboys and Kiprov discount this measurement.".
How big was your methylation age reduction? (Perhaps they discount DNAm measurements because they don't achieve very large reductions.)
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Baseline at TPE #1 (7/9/20) chrono age 70.9, myDNA 63.9
TPE #6 (12/10/20) chrono age 71.5 myDNA 62
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Blood donation vs TPE is the correct comparison. Donation is very cheap and available to all by contrast. I doubt Irina is putting down donation, and so far she is not selling anything.
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How much do you think 500ml saline and 5% albumin costs? About $500, so how many do you want to replace?
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Winslow James Foster so 6 treatments and 2 years lower age? did you expect more?
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Winslow James Foster i hear she talk it down all the time, "no proven bennefit" WRONG. studies show it. alot of studies posted on longecity. and i think the money she and her team will get will be from selling this techniqe (spelling) to others, she said they will teach, and the conboys will get a % of each payment.
I really hope the price can be pushed down the following 20 years. i see no reason why 6000 dollars should be the price. i can buy a great car for that price -
I was already quite younger than my chron age. I did not know what to expect, both Conboy's and Kiprov discounted methylation reduction benefit. Not what they are going for. This is an early stage clinical trial and results vary.
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Winslow James Foster
The plasma dilution treatment may be at an early stage, but I think two things are pretty clear:
- The Conboy plasma dilution treatment provides only minimal epigenetic reprogramming and DNAm age reduction, if any.
- If their treatment had provided a big drop in DNAm age, the Conboys and Kiprov would be hugely publicizing this as an revolutionary benefit rather than "discounting the methylation reduction benefit".
- The Conboy plasma dilution treatment provides only minimal epigenetic reprogramming and DNAm age reduction, if any.
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It seems you are making assumptions without data review.
Methylation age reduction is not a trial goal, they are looking at other factors.
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Winslow James Foster
True, but in their publication on plasma dilution in mice, they did not even bother to measure the effect on DNAm age. I "make assumptions without data review" because that data was missing. When I raised the question of why they did not measure DNAm age in their mice, Irina tole me by email that they had measured changes in the proteins being expressed, which is "downstream" from epigenetics, and therefore better. That may be true, as far as the immediate effect are concerned, but epigenetic reprogramming is semi-permanent, whereas the benefits of plasma dilution seem to be transitory, lasting a few weeks and then fading.
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JGC so 1 of the 2 most rejuvination agents we had a chance to succeed on, is out. i was hoping that both kutcher and irina was correct, so that we had 2 incredible breakthrues. but it dosent seem like that. damn. so .. its all on kutcher now ..
I wounder how he`s suppose to sell vials for injections, without FDA doing everything possible to destroy this. and if its only done on clinics we need years apon years to have that avalible across the world.
In a dreamworld kutcher would set up a reasearch chemical site and start selling vials ... -
Burgundy Summer
Until last week I had five items on my list of potential ways of obtaining a significant epigenetic reset to a younger DNAm age. They were:
- The Turn Bio technique of using a hypoallergenic liposome to deliver messenger RNA to cells. This is similar in operation to the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines. In this case, the mRNA is coded to express the four Yamanaka factors (OSKM) plus LIN28 and Nanog (so it becomes OSKMLN). When the mRNA is present, the cell's ribosome produces the six reset proteins and they modify the epigenetic programming. This delivery is similar to that of the Moderna and Pfizer mRNA vaccines presently in wide use. It would be injected for a few days, but halted before the recipient cells could forget their assigned functions.
- A similar technique in which DNA coding for a switchable “OSKM cassette” is implanted in a cell's chromosome by a “tame” adenovirus. This is similar in operationt o the J&J and AstraZenica vaccines presently in wide use. The DNA cassette remains passive unless an exotic antibiotic is administered, in which case the coded Yamanaka factors are expressed until no antibiotic is present. Such OSKM cassettes are ready-made and commercially available now.
- A similar technique in which DNA coding for the switchable “OSKM cassette” is incorporated in a plasmid (ring of DNA) inside a hypoallergenic liposome and injected. This is similar to the Oisin Bio liposome/plasmid technique for clearing senescent cells attempting to express p16 and p53, which has successfully been tested on mice.
- Harold Katcher’s E-5 (which he used to call Elixir), which in rats has been demonstrated to do a reset of the DNAm age by more than a factor of 2.
- The Conboy’s plasma dilution technique, which has been tested on mice and humans and has the advantage over all of the above that it does not require hyper-expensive testing to gain FDA approval.
I guess we can now scratch item 5. That leaves at least four alternatives, but it also means we will have a long wait for the others to be available in the USA, the UK, and the EU. Maybe it's time to take a cruise to international waters ...
- The Turn Bio technique of using a hypoallergenic liposome to deliver messenger RNA to cells. This is similar in operation to the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines. In this case, the mRNA is coded to express the four Yamanaka factors (OSKM) plus LIN28 and Nanog (so it becomes OSKMLN). When the mRNA is present, the cell's ribosome produces the six reset proteins and they modify the epigenetic programming. This delivery is similar to that of the Moderna and Pfizer mRNA vaccines presently in wide use. It would be injected for a few days, but halted before the recipient cells could forget their assigned functions.
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JGC I agree, I told Katcher and his business partner to set up shop in international waters such as Panama next to Riordan stem cell clinic and he said no. He felt that the public perception of offshore treatments are "deemed suspect" I completely disagree. I think he assumes this is going to have mass appeal and I suspect it wont have as much appeal as he thinks. I also think he is underestimating the fda. I think this thing is going to be tied up in red tape forever because the fda doesnt like antiaging products. Much like stem cells, the people with motivation and money will seek you out. I think Katcher is a better scientist than he is a business man. In the meantime Katcher is planning on releasing a topical blue gel product that although he hasnt released any details yet, I will go on the record and predict that it is GHK, which you can buy right now and use without having to wait on him to release his version.
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Fred Cloud agree 100%
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JGC thanks for the info sir, intresting !
I hope there will be a way to use these treatments without needing to travel to the other side of earth, for an injection thats needed a prolonged treatment. but that might be asking to much -
Fred Cloud
Katcher was talking about initially using E-5 on pets, particularly dogs, to extend their regrettably short lives. I recommended a like-minded vet in Southern California to him for this endeavor. I wonder how that is going.
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Winslow James Foster
Winslow James Foster said:
I was already quite younger than my chron ageBy what measure(s) did you make the statement/conclusion above?
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aribadabar Hi, by DNA methylation tests.
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Burgundy Summer – My wife is in remission from a 10 year autoimmune disease following 4 sessions of TPE (stable for 2.5 months now). Could she have achieved the same end point by some other means? Maybe, but TPE is what worked.
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Lou Hawthorne happy to hear she gotten well. btw is she a user of red light therapy?
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Burgundy Summer – Yes she tried several rounds of red light therapy a few years ago. She liked it but it didn't help her autoimmune condition.
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Lou Hawthornie its probably vaccin created. people with autoimune do EDTA iv and get rid of stuff like that, everything from auto imune, allergies, cancer, autism, adhd, ms, artritis
im about to buy a few vials from india i think. its a 15 year lifespan increase after chelation -
Burgundy Summer – My wife never had the vaccine, at least not against Covid (her immunologist told her she was one of the rare individuals for whom it's truly contraindicated). Her condition stemmed from a bout of sepsis 10 years ago, stemming from a medical error. Sepsis often leads to long-term immune disregulation. The molecular data suggests that for her this is primarily a TNF-related disorder. TPE drove her TNF levels from 14+ pg/ml (more than double the high end of the normal range) down to 0.35 pg/ml, which is where it's holding now.
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