The Conboy Plasma-Dilution Treatment is Available Now

    Recently, watching a video interview of Irina Conboy, I became aware that Conboy plasma-dilution for humans is available in San Francisco and Miami from the medical practice of Dobri Kiprov, MD, who works with and has published with Profs. Irina and Michael Conboy of UC Berkeley.  Here are links to videos and writeups about Dr. Kiprov's work on plasma dilution:
https://youtu.be/5gGFJtKIUN0
https://neo.life/2021/06/perspective-therapeutic-plasma-exchange-the-future-of-aging/
https://www.TPEplus.com

    I contacted Dr. Kiprov and had a Zoom call with him this morning.  Here's what I learned:

  • Kiprov's plasma-dilution protocol is slightly different from that described in the Conboy papers.  He adds some proprietary ingredients to the saline + albumin to suppress negative immune reactions.  I suspect that said reactions are caused by a stabilizer component that is in the albumin.
  • Treatment for one person involving two sessions of plasma dilution spaced 2 days apart costs $6,000.  There is a discount if a couple both have treatments at the same time.
  • Several patients have had Horvath-type DNAm bio-age tests before and after treatment.  The apparent epigenetic reset from the treatment is about 3-4 years.  Kiprov does not think the epigenetic reprogramming is "permanent".
  • The effects of the plasma dilution sessions are cumulative, and Kiprov recommends that they be done monthly for about 6 months, with semi-yearly or yearly treatments after that.
  • The observations of recipients are that there are immediate benefits from a plasma dilution session, but they are observed to diminish in a few weeks.  This motivates the repeated sessions.
  • There are plans to set up more centers to perform plasma-dilution treatments at other population centers around the USA.  No decisions yet about where.

    I am considering arranging one set of plasma-dilution sessions for my wife and me next December (for ~$10k), but I don't think we can afford a full 6-month series of them (~$60k).  Also, I am disappointed to learn that the apparent epigenetic reset of the Conboy treatment is only a few years.  According to the paper published with Steve Horvath, Harold Katcher's E-5 treatment on rats produced an epigenetic reset by about a factor of 2.

117replies Oldest first
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Active threads
  • Popular
  • Wow, thanks for posting this and your research on the details!

    But 3-4 years? AKG is supposed to give you an average of 8 years. Perhaps there is some rejuvenation that extends beyond being reflected in the epigenetic age.

    Like
  • Its interesting the effects only last a few weeks. It reminds me of when I was offered Ambrosia young blood plasma, the doc said you feel great for a few weeks and then it wears off. The cost was $8,000. So maybe the conboys are right in terms of adding or subtracting plasma gives the same effect. Katchers methylation treatment is supposed to be permanent and never wear off, but I also think it is working by a completely different process and cant be compared to parabiosis experiments even though they allude to it being similar since they call it a plasma fraction.

    Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 4 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Fred Cloud 

          You said: "Katcher's methylation treatment is supposed to be permanent and never wear off, but I also think it is working by a completely different process".

          Yes, I think Harold Katcher has accidentally discovered the enzymes that tell young cells that they should have the appropriate "young" DNA methylation profile.  The Conboys are removing enzymes that tell cells they are old, and also harmful proteins that are expressed under the "old" DNA methylation profile.  It takes a while (~2 weeks) for those to build up again.  If you cannot reprogram the cells to the younger DNA methylation profile, you ultimately lose the ball game, even if cells are temporarily "rejuvenated".

      Like 1
    •  It is likely that repeat treatments will be needed, but that is not a problem.  Our environment and habits will help with the need for repeated resets.

      Like
    • Winslow James Foster it will be very hard for everyone who dosent live close to the clinic that they are using, even if they set up shop all across the world.  to spend a 4-8w on a hotel to sleep and all the food you need to eat, just do do the first round of treatments. to then need to go back few months later and do it again n again n again. jesus christ that will cost millions in total

      Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 4 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules 

          As I understand it from my conversation with Dr. Kiprov, one would come to San Francisco and have 2 plasma dilution sessions spaced with an off-day in bethween.  That's it for the month.  One would then come back the next month and do the same thing, and so on for 5-6 months.  After that, one would come back for the same procedure every 6 months.  That wouldn't cost millions of dollars, but it would cost perhaps a hundred thousand or so in total, not including the large time commitment

      Like 1
    • JGC 6x6000 = 60 000 for one round, thats 600 000 in swedish sek, a double round is 1.2 millions in swedish. So 1.2 million to get a good effect, and 1-3 years later do it again 

       

      So yeah, its not for regular income people thats for sure

      Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules Mr Joules, you can do plasma donations for free using the same schedule, so it would cost you nothing.

      Like
    • Fred Cloud still not sold on it vs blood :)

      Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules You are sold on plasma dilution but not plasma donation? What do you think plasma dilution is? Its the same thing.

      Like
    • That's why I am searching for easier and cheaper treatments that  achieve similar goals.  I traveled from to San Diego to San Francisco 6 times.  The whole treatment is not cheap, but how much is liver regeneration worth? 

      Like 1
    • Fred Cloud well im not sold anymore, what i read in this thread really made me wounder. it sounds so strange that so much dilution is needed - to only have lasting effect for a few weeks. there must be some kind of atp problem that people are left with, and thats why it dosent matter how much gunk they remove, if atp is depleated, it need to be supplemented.

      I can do all EDTA iv, but i dont think that will help my damaged mitochondria. i need atp, u get my pont

      but hey, maby whats important is to see if the organ rejuvination was legit, and for how many years it lasts. it would be very strange if you can do this treatment for a year, and then the rejuvination on organs only last 1-3 years

      Like
    • Winslow James Foster im doing LLLT on my liver, thyroid, thymus. i think this is the future for organ repair. If LLLT is hit on the bone marrow, stem cells goes straight to the heart if damaged.

      I combine LLLT on organs and then ad nad boosters n such one hour later

      Like
    • Fred Cloud The difference is volume. A plasma donation is 660-800 mL, whereas TPE replaces 3 liters of plasma with saline/albumin. The hypothesis is that there's a threshold effect; you have to drive the progeronic soluble factors below some level and keep them down for some period of time in order for organismal remodeling to occur. Would be great if plasma donation itself were sufficient but probably not the case.

      Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Lou Hawthorne Can you point me to your source that Dr Kiprov doing Conboy therapy takes out 3 liters of plasma at a time?

      Like
    • Fred Cloud – I've sat through 4 TPE treatments and watched them change the bottles each time. Pretty sure it's in the May Conboy publication too; you can look that up yourself.

      Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Lou Hawthorne 4 TPE treatments with Dobri Kiprov?

      Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Lou Hawthorne I looked up the Conboy protocol and there is no defined amount, it just says they are diluting half the plasma and replacing it.

      So average person has 5 liters of blood

      half of that is rbc half is plasma=2.5 liters plasma

      dilute half the plasma=1.25 liters removed

      average plasma if you go to donation center gives 1 liter removed

      So it is approx the same amount.

      Now, normal TPE for other various immune diseases replaces all of the plasma, so now you are up to the 2.5- 3 liters you are talking about, but that is not the conboy protocol of diluting half the plasma.

      Like
    • Fred Cloud Yes that's correct. My wife also had 4 treatments. That was enough to put her into remission from an autoimmune condition she's had for 10 years. Her last treatment was 2.5 months ago. Results stable so far.

      Like
    •  Fred Cloud Not exactly. First, plasma volume in the average person is 3L (see link below). Second, there is a difference between diluting and exchanging. If you could magically pull all the plasma out of a person at once, then when you exchange it for saline/albumin, the dilution of the components of that patient's plasma would be 100%. But you can't pull all the plasma out at once or the patient would die. During TPE, 3L of plasma is removed at the SAME time as 3L of saline/albumin is added. There's mixing of old and exchanged plasma going on throughout the process. The net effect is dilution of 55-60% of the components of the old plasma, which is what the Conboys mean when they speak of diluting roughly half of a study subject's plasma. You have to exchange 3L of solution to achieve that level of dilution. https://www.physiologyweb.com/figures/physiology_illustration_tPksfgTyDcZ10zEq1Wp1FqLjrBRL8IGL_body_fluid_compartments_of_a_70_kg_adult_man.html

      Like 1
    • PS. 60% dilution effectively removes 1.8L of plasma components. Compared with 660mL to 800 mL of plasma removed in a single plasma donation, Kiprov is removing 2.25x to 2.7x as much of the plasma components as get removed in a plasma donation. He also adds back i.v. IgG to replace lost antibodies and enhance immune competence. Personally I think plasma donation is a good idea; but for those who can afford it, the Kiprov/Conboy protocol is better. 

      Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Lou Hawthorne ok, I follow you now, that makes sense, thank you for bringing clarity to this. Well if donation is not equal, I think it does offer some degree of benefit and should be considered as an alternative if you cant or dont want to spend the $60k for the full series. I looked into plasma donation and you can repeat the treatment twice in a period of 7 days, so that does close the gap a bit further into how much plasma you are removing. Since this is an elective procedure and not medically needed like someone treating a disease like your wifes, you can do plasma donation and whatever benefit you get is what you get, its at least better than nothing.

      I guess it comes down to how much money you want to spend versus your age and how much aging you have to overcome. If you are old and in bad shape and have alot of money then go for the full series. Perhaps one could combine the two approaches, get an initial TPE from Kiprov for $6,000 and then follow up with plasma donations. Maybe that would be an option for JGC since he said he can afford the $6k but not the $60k.  Glad to hear your wifes condition went into remission.

      Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 4 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Fred Cloud 

          Problem:  The plasma donation folks will not accept donations from a potential donor over 65 or so.  Therefore, plasma donation is not an option for my wife and I.

      Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Lou Hawthorne Not sure if you saw the story of the russians who diluted their plasma, they basically donated twice.

      "We have a lot of interesting results, but the procedure only works if you replace at least 50% of the plasma. So, if you weigh 70 kilos, you need to do it at least twice, remove 700 ml of plasma each time, and inject around 70 mg of 20% albumin solution. That's it, I just told you the whole thing."

      https://www.lifespan.io/news/biohackers-perform-first-plasma-dilution-experiment-on-humans/

      Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 4 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Fred Cloud 

      I remember discussing the amount of plasma replaced per session with Dr. Kiprov, and as I recall it was about a liter.  However, this was to be done on three successive days, so the net dilution factor is larger.

      Like 1
    • Fred Cloud - Thanks! Interesting article. I agree with the targets they highlight: TGF-beta, IL-6 and TNF-α.

      Like 1
    • Fred Cloud only twice? would love to see a whole blood result on inflammation, like TGF beta n TNF

      Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Lou Hawthorne Speaking of TGF-beta, I ran across this Conboy paper that said the plasma dilution works mainly because it lowers TGF-beta and further states that the ratio of TGF-beta to oxytocin is actually the critical part.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6710051/


      Are they suggesting that this approach using 2 compounds can give you the benefits and effectively substitute plasma dilution therapy?

      Like
    • Fred Cloud – TGF-beta has a couple of negative effects as it rises. It's an immune inhibitor that cancer uses to protect itself. It's also pro-fibrotic driving various fibrotic pathologies. Depleting it would potentially induce a variety of downstream positive effects. A drug that inhibits TGF-beta would have some negative effects that would not occur with TPE. 

      Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

       Lou Hawthorne Are you sure it would have negative effects or are you just concerned it might?

      Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Lou Hawthorne My TGFb1 is 1616, I wonder how low it gets after plasma dilution. Maybe one could use it as a comparative marker for TPE versus plasma donation and see how close the two are.

       

       

      Like
    • Fred Cloud TGF-beta, like the inflammatory cytokines, is pleiotropic. It's responsible for positive homeostatic functions in healthy people and also drives multiple pathologies, as explained in the linked article below. Toxicity is expected for the TGF-beta inhibitors under development and is already well-documented for inhibitors of inflammatory cytokines (all the TNF-inhibitors for instance reduce immune competence, with side effects including serious infections and cancer). With all of these molecules, the positive homeostatic effects are achieved through focal, cell-mediated delivery – because systemic release is broadly toxic. TPE is a way of reducing excess circulating levels of these targets without disturbing cell-mediated delivery – because TPE doesn't deplete cells, just soluble factors. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5630004/pdf/cshperspect-TGF-a022301.pdf

      Like 1
    • Fred Cloud The comparison strikes me as a good experiment to try. Keep in mind that the main value of both TPE and donation is not in decreased target concentration as measured immediately following TPE or plasma donation. TPE in particular will deplete all plasma targets significantly in a predictable way. The main value is in the immune system remodeling that happens over the next few weeks. Do the targets stay down or do the pop back up? The Conboy's work and patient reports both suggest that remodeling begins to occur with a single TPE treatment, and becomes more durable following some number of additional treatments. That "some number" still requires additional data.

      Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Lou Hawthorne When you say the immune system popping back up or not sounds more like you are determining efficacy of TPE for auto-immune disorders versus efficacy of rejuvenation or aging reversal. The reason I said short term lowering after treatment was from the conboy paper targeting tgfb1 found rejuvenation by altering the ratio of tgfb:oxytocin only for a week. So it looks like the post treatment levels of the tgfb1 shortly after is critical. I am sure there are other factors in rejuvenation when diluting plasma, but the conboys said they think that most or all of the rejuvenation occurs from just this one pathway.

      Like
    • Fred Cloud I subscribe to the "inflamm-aging" theory of aging, which states that "inflammation is one of the seven evolutionarily conserved mechanistic pillars of ageing that are shared by age-related diseases..." That's from a Nature article by leaders in the aging field. If true, one implication is that depletion of inflammatory cytokines – which TPE definitely does – is not just useful for autoimmune disease but also for age-related disease and potentially aging itself. Regarding TGF-beta, the Conboys focused on TGF-beta/ALK5 as a way of demonstrating that broad rejuvenation can occur by modulating just a couple of pathways. However, that's not the same as saying that modulating those pathways would be a safe intervention in humans. There's actually already a human drug which blocks the interaction between TGF-beta and ALK5, developed for treating cancer. It has significant cardiac toxicity (article linked below). In the Kiprov/Conboy article from May 2021, they emphasize that TPE depletes a range of progeronic factors: "With aging, the circulation contains numerous signals of tissue damage [12] that are reduced by TPE (Fig. 2), including self-molecules, cellular debris, micro RNAs, lipofuscins, advanced glycation end-products (AGEs), Tau protein aggregates, alpha-synuclein fibrils, and amyloid-β (Aβ) peptides."

      Inflamm-aging:

      https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-018-0059-4

      Toxicity of TGF-beta inhibitor:

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4575352/

      Conboy/Kiprov article from May 2021:

      https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1473050221001282

      Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Lou Hawthorne Makes alot of sense and I agree there is definitely alot of other moving parts in this equation and not just tgfb-1 at work here and TPE would be the most optimal approach to flush known and unknown compounds out of the system. I was only exploring alternative approaches as a second option for those who TPE isnt practical or affordable.

      BTW, Lou, do you have plans to do the TPE for antiaging now that there are doctors willing to do it like Kiprov?
       

      Like
    • Fred Cloud Kiprov is doing this clinically for anyone?

      Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dorian Gray Yes, scroll to the top of this page and read John's post.

      Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Lou Hawthorne 

      One thing I do wonder about with dilution therapy is what happens to the persons GDF11 levels, it would certainly dilute and lower those too. The conboys mention the dilution activates stem cells for rejuvenation but gdf11 is heavily involved and crucial for stem cell dna repair and activation but if you are diluting the plasma. I know Conboys mantra is dilution is all you need, nothing else, but parabiosis has been proven to be effective and supplementing gdf11 has been known to give antiaging benefits, just watch Steve Perry presentation. I have been personally taking gdf11 for 2 years and can personally vouch for the benefits in addition to Steves study cohort data he has compiled. So I think one should be supplementing with gdf11 regardless if they are doing dilution but especially if they are doing dilution it should boost gains even further. Perhaps someone that is on gdf11 in Steves group will also do plasma dilution and then we would at least have an indication if he depleted and had to replenish his levels post dilution.

       

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4104429/

      Like
    • Fred Cloud ofc combinations would create synergy. Like hitting NAD+ iv after the infusion, red light therapy, other stem cells activators n nad boosters. she just want it to sound like this is so powerful that nothing else is needed, but it will be for optimal results

      Like
  • Thanks so much for the info !

    and damn, this was such a disapointment. now i also know why irina never responded to my email. I asked about EU clinics in the future, where they plan to be set up.

    And then i asked about the pricing range and said that 600 euro would be a ok price for something like this, but that corperations are greedy so i bet its 1000 euro per session ... but what, 6000 dollars !?? and its suppose to be given multiple times per week and then every month and then every 6 months ... seriously

    No thanks, i settle with blood donations and a 80% reduced mortality, increase in stem cells, bone growth, neurogenesis, removal off senesent cells. all for free .......... is this why irina talk down on blood donation "it wont work", cause her treatment will be a robbery money wise so it will sound like her treatment is the only thing that works. hmm 

    Also its strange that they dident recive better effect from new  fresh albumin ? mice study shows 20% increase in lifespan, wich is like rapamycin. also shows better grip strength and darker hair

    In the future i will do my own verision of this information.

    And that is to buy bigger blood donation bags and do it myself. I think 1000ml is the most we can remove before it gets dangerous. Hit low light laser after, with nad boosters and stem cell activators and vitamin k2 for bone growth. you can trigger an massive respons i would assume.

    And if you remove 1000ml instead of 450 on a clinic every 3 months, in a few years that will equal double the health bennefit. And over a lifetime ... damn.

    The optimal would be to remove 1500ml blood, inject NAD+ iv in the other directly after, and shoot a few cc albumin in the shoulder. buut, seems like albumin is needed in higher doses, and that 1500 might be very dangerous.

    Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules What country do you live in? Here in the US you can donate plasma for free, actually they pay you. So that would dilute the plasma at twice the amount versus when donating blood.

      Like
    • Fred Cloud hey, I live in sweden. I think its the same here but I rather remove whole blood !

      Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules For what reason? The aging factors are in the plasma not the rbc.

      Like
    • Fred Cloud plasma wont remove heavy metals? Why aren't people remove plasma when they got for example iron overload?

       

      do you think its more metals and senescence cells in plasma then blood?

       

      I have not seen any studies on reduced mortality/bone increase n stem cell from plasma patient?

      Like
    • Fred Cloud also, from this info thats posted in the thread, it dosent sound to be effective 

       

      So if i gonna take those big needles i rather do whats proven to work. 80% reduced mortality sounds great .. 

      Like
    • Fred Cloud and its obviously in the red blood cells the damage also is, due to the health effect of blood removal

      Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules No, not obviously. Red blood cells last about 6 weeks, they dont get that old and damaged because they are constantly renewing. Therapeutic effect from removing red blood cells is because is because it lowers ferritin in the process which increases oxidative load in your body and increases dna damage. Also, for every 1 percent increase in serum ferritin, there is a 4 percent increase in the risk of heart attack. But lower is not better, if you remove too much iron you get anemia, so the sweet spot for ferritin is 50-75, go higher and you get an increase in dna damage and death from all causes, go lower and you get anemia and possibly death. Your idea to remove up to 1500ml of blood is completely reckless. Death is known to occur when you remove 2,000ml in the average adult.

      I think you need to start doing way more research and way less assumptions.

      Like
    • Fred Cloud you must have missed all the studies posted on longecity, the blood is toxic. When we remove it alone with the mercery/lead/aluminum and senessent cells, new FRESH blood can take its place. Reduced heart attack and mortality by 80%. Best anti aging thing we can due

       

      Also it seems like removing plasma isent strong enough to give a lasting effect, wich removal of blood is.

       

      Buy hey if you wanna spend a million dollars for a years treatment or however many cycles you need to do, go for it

       

      And if your afraid of to low iron, supplement with it

      Like
    • Fred Cloud yeah 1500ml would be recless. Albumin would be needed. AS I WROTE

      Like
    • Fred Cloud pretty strange how you can say that removal of ferritin will create dna damage, when it is ferritin that create dna damage and one of the leading heart disease n cancer.

       

      The iron we get from food arent even the correct one

       

      Your level must be like 20, as afraid as you sound 

      Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules You have completely misunderstood what I said. I never said donating blood was not healthy, of course it is. I have been donating for years for my health. But you can only donate to a point, more is not better, you seem to think more is better, it isnt. You are saying it is the red blood cells that contains all the aging factors and I am saying it isnt, those are in the plasma. Donating plasma would give you twice the amount of aging factors that you would purge, donating blood only contains half of the plasma. You cant donate enough blood to match the conboy plasma therapy. Thats it.

      Like
    • Fred Cloud if i donated blood, can i donate plasma one month later? can this be cycled? like do plasma in between? my arms would never be able to take that, but maby for a few months to try

      Forgott to quote you the first time, read one below

      Like
      • aribadabar
      • aribadabar
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Fred Cloud RBCs last 90-120 days, not 6 weeks. The rest I agree with. Mr Joules sounds too maverick and way misinformed for his own good.

      Like
      • aribadabar
      • aribadabar
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules one can safely donate plasma ONLY every 7-10 days. Seriously, read more into this before doing something dangerous and cause more harm than good. And forget about that 1000-1500ml whole blood donation idea. You may end up in ER if not worse.

      Like
      • aribadabar
      • aribadabar
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules Thanks for the compliment - do what you want. I guess you threw caution out of the window a long time ago. Fred and I tried to warn you but can't save you from yourself. 

      Like
    • aribadabar its obviously not optimal, would need a nurse. 1000ml would not be a problem tho, would be very beneficial to remove 1000 instead of 500

      Like
  • Do you plan on using EDTA intravenously or how do you plan to remove all the metals in your blood? 

    When i was comparing the 450ml vs 1000ml, it was cause i want to create a higher growth phase then 450ml do. its shown that growth factors are released after 450ml donation, stem cells, bone growth. lowering of tgf/tnf. so a double amount would be an even more effect. and i could amplify it with stem cells from low light laser. the removal of heavy metals are a plus. or well not a plus, if not removed we die.

    removal of heavy metals from vaccin with EDTA iv is 90% reduced cancer risk. having this in our blood and body speed up the aging, we age so much faster

    im not against donating plasma, i just dont see the value. do you have any studies showing the health bennefit? how much plasma do they take and what is that equal in blood?

    Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules I have done 75 intravenous edta chelations from 7 different clinics around the country. I have been at this for a long time. I suspect the benefit from chelation is partially coming from removing iron rather than heavy metals. The higher the iron store the higher the chance of cancer and heart attack and that is also the benefits that chelation therapy gives. See the connection?

      Like
    • Fred Cloud did you ever get problems with side effects btw from the edta?

      Like
      • Mr. Joules
      • Mr_Joules
      • 4 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Fred Cloud i now understand why you think that you dont have much more to gain from blood donation, there will be no toxins left, after edta iv 75 times, haha ! 

      Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules No side effects. I only did the newer rapid chelation which uses ca-edta that you can push in about 15 minutes versus the slow drip 3 hour old style. It pulls much more heavy metals and takes alot less time. No side effects, just felt great afterwards.

      Like 1
  • very intresting. i see 20-30ml vials are being sold on indiamart. no matter how much i donate, i will def invest in readl edta cycle the following 20 years. it will be a must to survive. seem to bind to fibrin also. the disease morgellons have exploaded since they started modifing the weather. are you aware of the harvard/bill gates project? spraying nanoparticels in the sky to reflect sunlight. we are basically breathing in murcery and lead every breath we take. remeber what i just said, this will be the leading cause of death the following 50 years. i cant even imagine .... 

    Its also said it will increase drought and rain, it will cool down certen places, like sweden, but will create floods in india. and drought in other places. will not be a even effect. it is suppose to mimmic the vulcano erruption effect = cool down after. wich i notice myself after they spray the chemtrails, the entire city gets few degrees colder.

    So ... it seems like EDTA will be a must use. we dont get autism from iron, so i would assume that lead and mucery is alot alot alot more toxic, dont you think?

    It seems like HEPA filter air purifer can acully capture these metallic nanoparticels. but gotta be a dc motor, ac motor got emf as high as a phone tower, really bizzar

    Like
  • John, If the treatment is spaced 2 days apart, why not just go donate plasma for free? They would allow you to donate at that same frequency. and I suspect they remove the same amount as Dr Kiprov. Also I dont think the albumin replacement gives any therapeutic effect and that seems like the only difference between Dr Kiprov and donation.

    Like 1
    • Fred Cloud do you know if you can donate both blood and plasma? donate blood, wait a month and donate plasma, wait a month and do plasma, next do blood ? 

      Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules I think so here in the US, but have no idea what the rules are in Sweden. Here in the US you can donate blood every 8 weeks and plasma even more often. I would donate plasma twice spaced 2 days apart to replicate the conboy therapy. Here in the US you can donate as often as twice in a seven-day period, with at least one day between donations. Which will replicate Dr Kiprov's protocol "Treatment for one person involving two sessions of plasma dilution spaced 2 days apart"

      Do you know what your ferritin level is? You should check that before you make a plan on how much blood you plan to donate.

      Like
    • Fred Cloud thanks for reply. well i think i need to choose one of them, will never have veins to use otherwise if im doing donations for the rest of my life. already damaged veins from nad+ injections. but yeah, intresting ! 

      Yes and i seem to be close to heart disease, 325 in ferritin and the limit is 300-1000 for heart disease. so im just about the line. wich fit perfectly with what i tought about my health due to all the issues i got

      Like
    • Fred Cloud are you dissapointed in the results btw? from plasma. i was betting that this would be the greatest bet we got to rejuvinate. tougheter with mega doses of rapamycin. and hopefully with kutchers "new" monequle. i really hope its not GDF or GHC U or how its spelled. 

      There is no way in hell im saving up money for 20 years to spend it all on this, with this short effect. what a disapointment

      Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules Katchers topical is most likely GHK-cu but the injectable E5 is not, it is one of the demethylation enzymes like JMJD2/3

      Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules Your ferritin is at 325? Have you not done any blood donations yet? My ferritin was 400. Now it is 75.

      Like
    • Fred Cloud i really wounder how that one will be possible to get then, if clinic is a must, or if they can sell vials for home use ...

      Like
    • Fred Cloud yes 325, and thats after loosing like 1.5 liter blood in accident, and using fisetin for a year, and still 325.

       

      I did edta orally after that info and 1 donation later im at 220 

      Like
  • I and a friend are part of the Conboy/Kiprov - Alzheimer/Fraility study.  We have had six treatments each.  We each had a methylation age reduction.  Each of our treatments was 2.5l replacement with saline/albumin.  We both felt better for a while.

    My significant improvements are known "side effects", lower blood pressure, liver regeneration.  While I did achieve my lowest methylation age reduction of all experimental treatments tried, the Conboys and Kiprov discount this measurement.

    I am considering additional treatments, based on measurements and am adding GrimAge measurements to the mix.

    In my discussion with the Conboy's, they confirmed that blood donation would be a "cheap and dirty" effective approach.  I am supporting a nanotechnology approach to removing "bad stuff" that may come to clinical trial in 1-2 years.  I am investigating "affinity column" filtration approach to removing "unwanted materials".  I do not want to continue discarding half my plasma long term.

    Now that Ambrosia has been bought by Grifols, watch for products  derived from "young blood factors".

    Like 1
    • Winslow James Foster to call blood donation a cheap and dirty way, is in by itself DIRTY ... who the fuck wanna pay 6000 dollars per treatment to only get a minimum effect. 

      I personally would much rather do blood donations and then spend 10k on stem cells from fetus.

      Bit irritating hering irina put down blood donation, to sell her product

      Like
    • Winslow James Foster i would say even 600 dollar are to much per time, due to how many times it seems to be needed. 

      she must gotten so angry from my email calling 500 euro greedy, saying that 250 euro sounds like a good deal. 

      Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 4 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Winslow James Foster 

          You said: "While I did achieve my lowest methylation age reduction of all experimental treatments tried, the Conboys and Kiprov discount this measurement.".

          How big was your methylation age reduction?  (Perhaps they discount DNAm measurements because they don't achieve very large reductions.)

      Like 1
    • Baseline at TPE #1 (7/9/20)  chrono age 70.9, myDNA 63.9

                           TPE #6 (12/10/20) chrono age 71.5 myDNA 62

      Like
    • Blood donation vs TPE is the correct comparison.  Donation is very cheap and available to all by contrast.   I doubt Irina is putting down donation, and so far she is not selling anything. 

      Like 1
    • How much do you think 500ml saline and 5% albumin costs?  About $500, so how many do you want to replace?

      Like 1
    • Winslow James Foster so 6 treatments  and 2 years lower age? did you expect more?

      Like
    • Winslow James Foster i hear she talk it down all the time, "no proven bennefit" WRONG. studies show it. alot of studies posted on longecity. and i think the money she and her team will get will be from selling this techniqe (spelling) to others, she said they will teach, and the conboys will get a % of each payment. 

      I really hope the price can be pushed down the following 20 years. i see no reason why 6000 dollars should be the price. i can buy a great car for that price

      Like
    • I was already quite younger than my chron age.  I did not know what to expect, both Conboy's and Kiprov discounted methylation reduction benefit.  Not what they are going for.  This is an early stage clinical trial and results vary. 

      Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 4 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Winslow James Foster 

          The plasma dilution treatment may be at an early stage, but I think two things are pretty clear:

      1. The Conboy plasma dilution treatment provides only minimal epigenetic reprogramming and DNAm age reduction, if any.
         
      2. If their treatment had provided a big drop in DNAm age, the Conboys and Kiprov would be hugely publicizing this as an revolutionary benefit rather than "discounting the methylation reduction benefit".
      Like 3
    • It seems you are making assumptions without data review.

      Methylation age reduction is not a trial goal, they are looking at other factors.

      Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Winslow James Foster 

          True, but in their publication on plasma dilution in mice, they did not even bother to  measure the effect on DNAm age.  I "make assumptions without data review" because that data was missing.  When I raised the question of why they did not measure DNAm age in their mice, Irina tole me by email that they had measured changes in the proteins being expressed, which is "downstream" from epigenetics, and therefore better.  That may be true, as far as the immediate effect are concerned, but epigenetic reprogramming is semi-permanent, whereas the benefits of plasma dilution seem to be transitory, lasting a few weeks and then fading.

      Like
    • JGC so 1 of the 2 most rejuvination agents we had a chance to succeed on, is out. i was hoping that both kutcher and irina was correct, so that we had 2 incredible breakthrues. but it dosent seem like that. damn. so .. its all on kutcher now .. 

      I wounder how he`s suppose to sell vials for injections, without FDA doing everything possible to destroy this. and if its only done on clinics we need years apon years to have that avalible across the world. 

      In a dreamworld kutcher would set up a reasearch chemical site and start selling vials ... 

      Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 4 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Joules 

          Until last week I had five items on my list of potential ways of obtaining a significant epigenetic reset to a younger DNAm age.  They were:

      1. The Turn Bio technique of using a hypoallergenic liposome to deliver messenger RNA to cells.  This is similar in operation to the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines.  In this case, the mRNA is coded to express the four Yamanaka factors (OSKM) plus LIN28 and Nanog (so it becomes OSKMLN).  When the mRNA is present, the cell's ribosome produces the six reset proteins and they modify the epigenetic programming.  This delivery is similar to that of the Moderna and Pfizer mRNA vaccines presently in wide use.  It would be injected for a few days, but halted before the recipient cells could forget their assigned functions.
         
      2. A similar technique in which DNA coding for a switchable “OSKM cassette” is implanted in a cell's chromosome by a “tame” adenovirus.  This is similar in operationt o the  J&J and AstraZenica vaccines presently in wide use.  The DNA cassette remains passive unless an exotic antibiotic is administered, in which case the coded Yamanaka factors are expressed until no antibiotic is present.   Such OSKM cassettes are ready-made and commercially available now.
         
      3. A similar technique in which DNA coding for the switchable “OSKM cassette” is incorporated in a plasmid (ring of DNA) inside a hypoallergenic liposome and injected.  This is similar to the Oisin Bio liposome/plasmid technique for clearing senescent cells attempting to express p16 and p53, which has successfully been tested on mice.
         
      4. Harold Katcher’s E-5 (which he used to call Elixir), which in rats has been demonstrated to do a reset of the DNAm age by more than a factor of 2.
         
      5. The Conboy’s plasma dilution technique, which has been tested on mice and humans and has the advantage over all of the above that it does not require hyper-expensive testing to gain FDA approval.

          I guess we can now scratch item 5.  That leaves at least four alternatives, but it also means we will have a long wait for the others to be available in the USA, the UK, and the EU.  Maybe it's time to take a  cruise to international waters ...

      Like 2
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      JGC I agree, I told Katcher and his business partner to set up shop in international waters such as Panama next to Riordan stem cell clinic and he said no. He felt that the public perception of offshore treatments are "deemed suspect" I completely disagree. I think he assumes this is going to have mass appeal and I suspect it wont have as much appeal as he thinks. I also think he is underestimating the fda.  I think this thing is going to be tied up in red tape forever because the fda doesnt like antiaging products. Much like stem cells, the people with motivation and money will seek you out. I think Katcher is a better scientist than he is a business man.  In the meantime Katcher is planning on releasing a topical blue gel product that although he hasnt released any details yet, I will go on the record and predict that it is GHK, which you can buy right now and use without having to wait on him to release his version.

      Like 2
    • Fred Cloud agree 100%

      Like
    • JGC thanks for the info sir, intresting !

      I hope there will be a way to use these treatments without needing to travel to the other side of earth, for an injection thats needed a prolonged treatment. but that might be asking to much 

      Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 4 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Fred Cloud 

          Katcher was talking about initially using E-5 on pets, particularly dogs, to extend their regrettably short lives.  I recommended a like-minded vet in Southern California to him for this endeavor.  I wonder how that is going.

      Like 1
      • aribadabar
      • aribadabar
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Winslow James Foster 

      Winslow James Foster said:
      I was already quite younger than my chron age

       By what measure(s) did you make the statement/conclusion above?

      Like
    • aribadabar Hi, by DNA methylation tests. 

      Like
    • Mr. Joules – My wife is in remission from a 10 year autoimmune disease following 4 sessions of TPE (stable for 2.5 months now). Could she have achieved the same end point by some other means? Maybe, but TPE is what worked.

      Like
    • Lou Hawthorne happy to hear she gotten well. btw is she a user of red light therapy?

      Like
    • Mr. Joules – Yes she tried several rounds of red light therapy a few years ago. She liked it but it didn't help her autoimmune condition.

      Like
    • Lou Hawthornie  its probably vaccin created. people with autoimune do EDTA iv and get rid of stuff like that, everything from auto imune, allergies, cancer, autism, adhd, ms, artritis

      im about to buy a few vials from india i think. its a 15 year lifespan increase after chelation

      Like
    • Mr. Joules – My wife never had the vaccine, at least not against Covid (her immunologist told her she was one of the rare individuals for whom it's truly contraindicated). Her condition stemmed from a bout of sepsis 10 years ago, stemming from a medical error. Sepsis often leads to long-term immune disregulation. The molecular data suggests that for her this is primarily a TNF-related disorder. TPE drove her TNF levels from 14+ pg/ml (more than double the high end of the normal range) down to 0.35 pg/ml, which is where it's holding now. 

      Like
    • Lou Hawthorne not now when we were kids, mercery have a 30-60 year half life. wich is intresting due to we see a push in aging at 30 and 60 .... when the half life of the metals are going out and ages us ..... 

      Like
    • Mr. Joules - Very interesting. I'm looking forward to going down that rabbit hole. It makes sense. I had all the mercury-based fillings removed from my teeth about 10 years back, replaced with composites, and noted an immediate improvement in health, though of course very difficult to attribute to anything specific.

      Like
    • Winslow James Foster Are you taking GDF11 too? It should boost the effect of TPE and fully replicate both arms of parabiosis. 

      Like
    • Fred Cloud I am going to start GDF-11 soon.  Thanks for the suggestion.

      Like 1
  • Winslow James Foster said:
    Ambrosia has been bought by Grifols

     Alkahest, not Ambrosia. Very different.

    Like 1
  • Thanks for the correction.   Grifols also bought an advanced analysis company about the same time.  They are searching for "good factors".

    Like
  • $6000? It's outrageously expensive. 

    Like 1
    • Allen It is crazy prices - but that's the $ range what the companies are charging in this space:

      Ambrosia was $8,000 for 1 liter, $12000 for 2 liters.

      https://www.businessinsider.com/young-blood-transfusions-ambrosia-shut-down-2019-6

      Like
    • Brin Chikovski Ah - I see they've lowered their prices... such a deal!

      https://www.ambrosiaplasma.com

      Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Brin Chikovski Considering they pay the donor only a few hundred dollars, they have a pretty big profit margin. My antiaging doc offered me ambrosia plasma and I told him I was taking gdf11 instead and it totally blew his mind.

      Like
      • aribadabar
      • aribadabar
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Brin Chikovski Ambrosia is shut down by FDA already. That info is obsolete.

      Like
  • Dobri's latest interview:

    https://daniellelin.com/2021- 06-23-changing-the-landscape- about-alzheimers-dr-dobri- kiprov-private/

    Like
  • Can whey protein be a cheap substitute for albumin?  Just give blood and then drink whey protein for amino acids.  Albumin should come back shortly?

    Like
  • Kiprov/Conboy latest publication.

    Like 1
  • Fred Cloud said:
    a topical blue gel product that although he hasnt released any details yet, I will go on the record and predict that it is GHK

     You meant GHK-Cu. It is the Copper adduct that causes the signature blue colour of GHK-Cu. GHK(sans Cu) is a white powder.

    Like 1
  • JGC Hey John, just following up with you on this.

    Did you decide if you are going to do Kiprov plasma dilution or not?

    I am considering it also.

    Like
  •     I decided to pass on Kiprov's procedure.  The deciding factor for me was that treated subjects have reported some benefits that disappear in a few months, but no significant improvement in their DNA methylation epigenetic age.

    Like 2
    • JGC I see. Have you tried the Rejuvant or generic AKG yet?

      Like
Like2 Follow
  • 2 Likes
  • 3 wk agoLast active
  • 117Replies
  • 621Views
  • 12 Following