Paul's self experimentation

I inadvertently started on this 5 years ago when I started taking Metformin. Was diagnosed with a Gleason 6 prostate cancer. Docs didn't want to treat just monitor. Found that diabetics taking Metformin had a very low chance of dying from PC.

 

Just found this site after reading David Sinclairs book LifeSpan and put blood test results into Aging.AI and result was predicted age of 49. I'm 67.

 

I've suffered from TMJ for years and as a result don't eat a lot - kind of a caloric restriction, so I think that may have an impact on predicted age from what I've read.

My wife put her test results into Aging.AI and her predicted age was 59. She is 55.

We have an active lifestyle and bike, hike or walk every day. But she doesn't take MEtformin and she eats a lot more than me though she is quite fit.

I just started taking Rapamycin two weeks ago, so will be interesting to see if that has an effect

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  • So you started the Metformin to treat the cancer, not because you’re diabetic?

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    • Karl no, I'm not diabetic although my Dad was and one of my brothers are.

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  • So I started taking 5 mg Rapamycin at the start of Dec. This week the morning after I woke up with unexplained anxiety which has gone away after a couple of days. One of the noted side effects

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  • Took a dose of Dasatinab yesterday. Used Dasapro from the anti-aging store. $89 for 360 mg. Split in two will take a second dose next week. Experienced diarrhea and a slight headache at bedtime but nothing else 

    dosage 180 mg/ 60 kg plus 1500 mg quercetin

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  • Update on blood work after 3 months on Rapamycin and one D & Q treatment.

    For about 5 years now I've been getting poor results on kidney functions - low eGfr and high creatine. My grandfather and aunt both died of kidney disease, so i figured that was hereditary.

    My eGfr increased from averaging 52 to 89 and my Creatine dropped from 1.41 to 0.88

    I am ecstatic about these results! Didn't exercise much over the last 3 months either due to winter, so maybe able to improve.

    Using the Levine spreadsheet provided by others on this forum my predicted DNAage dropped from 63.5 with last years blood work to 51.3. Hopefully there is some validity to this! Best part is my predicted mortality risk dropped from 16.6% to 5.8% over the next 10 years

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      • Karl
      • Karl.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Paul Beauchemin great news and thanks for sharing.

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  • I've had a second set of blood tests done in June to confirm Feb results and they were pretty close.

    Had high Total Cholesterol and LDL-c but my HDL was over 70  and my triglycerides were under 70.  My ratio of Tot C/HDL was good at 3.3 and Trig/HDL was 1.1 also good. LDL-p was quite low. I do a low carb/high fat diet so this was expected and despite my doctors insistence, I see no need for a statin.

     

    I started on a 30 M rapamycin skin cream about 30 days ago. Wrinkles look better but very hard to quantify.

     

    I also started on 150 pg of GDF11 this week.

    Like 1
      • David H
      • David_Hanson
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Paul Beauchemin Did you make your own Rapamycin cream?  If not where did you find it, please?

      Like
    • David H yes, made our own. Bought 1 gm of rapamycin from a provider on Alibaba (there are many) and then diluted ti

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      • David H
      • David_Hanson
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Paul Beauchemin I bought mine also through Alibaba from a chemical company in Shanghai.  Did you verify that yours was 1 gm?  Did you cut it all at the same time to make into a skin cream?

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    • David H yes, was 1 gram. put it in 4 oz of dsmo and have been taking small amounts of that and diluting to 25 molar in face cream

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      1. Paul Beauchemin yeah, isn’t 25 molar the max you want to use for skin?
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    • Fred Cloud maybe. Who knows? I suspect I could go higher. Getting skin ulcers would indicate dose is too high

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  • Started my current experimentation 12/1/19

    Did a DNA methylation test and it matched my chronological age of 66. The Levine spreadsheet showed 63 from 2019 blood tests.

     

    After 7 months of weekly rapamycin and a one time D&Q treatment the Levine sheet showed my age as 53.2 (up from 513 in Feb - I took the D&Q in Jan)

    And my DNA methylation test nearly matched the LEvine blood test age - 52.2

    So, I must be doing something correct.

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    • Paul Beauchemin Thank you  for the update. Do you or have you tried fisetin?

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    • Peter H. Howe Yes, in January I took some with the Dasatinab.

      Never seemed to have any effect so I stopped after a second dose

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      • yz
      • neon_ocean
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Paul Beauchemin That's awesome! Do you physically move and feel like 50 as well?

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    • yz much younger than that. I mountain bike like a 30 year old :)

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      • yz
      • neon_ocean
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Paul Beauchemin Wow! That's the most incredible achievement I've seen in 7 months. Thanks for sharing!

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    • Paul Beauchemin Paul, do you take Rejuvant/Alpha-Ketoglutarate, I know they claim to rewind the methylation clock.

      Like
    • Fred Cloud Not yet. Was thinking of doing that in the fall

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    • Paul Beauchemin rapamycin alone has been shown to reverse methylation age. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6555449/

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  • Hi Paul- wondered where you were getting your Rapamycin from.  Thanks, Sally

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    • sally maslon right now no where. The FDA has been seizing my shipments. Dropshipmd.com and antiaging.store were previous sources

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  • Hi Paul- thank you for the reply.  Wow, that's horrible that they've been seizing.  Awful. So you are running out? 

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    • sally maslon ran out a month ago. Have two shipments from different suppliers in customs now and hoping one of them gets through. I feel like I'm on a blacklist

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  • Hello, Paul, thanks so much for sharing.

    I'm very interested in taking metformin. I'm only in my mid-30's, avg body weight, but have a strong history of cancer (albeit not at particularly young ages) in my family. Does anybody have any advice on how to start in terms of dosage and where to get it?

    Also, how do you get the DNA methylation test?

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      • David H
      • David_Hanson
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Adrian M agelessrx.com is USA source. The doctors there will decide your dose. Or you could use one of the international sources such as AlldayChemist.com or one of the others discussed in these forums. Agelessrx prescribed 1000 mg/day for me but I am twice your age.

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      • David H
      • David_Hanson
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Adrian M you could try to convince a local primary care doctor to prescribe it.  I don’t believe that insurance will pay for unless you are diabetic but the cost is quite low.

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      • Adrian M
      • Adrian_M
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      David H Thanks very much for the quick response. Isn't David Sinclair taking 1000 a day also? Pretty sure I've heard him say he takes 500 twice a day. PS I'm in Europe and AlldayChemist don't ship here. I'll try asking around.

      I think GP's in my jurisdiction are quite conservative about prescribing drugs compared with the US but I'll certainly give it a shot.

      Any side effects you've had from it? I know an upset stomach is quite common. I suppose the question is how upset...

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      • David H
      • David_Hanson
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Adrian M Yes David Sinclair takes 500gm morning and night.  I didn't know you were in Europe.    I have not had even a hint of side effects with metformin and I have taken as much of 2000mg per day, often before meals.  I am not diabetic but without metformin and being very careful about what carbs I eat, my blood glucose gets higher than I like. 

      My desire is to keep the after meal glucose spikes at 1 and 2 hours no higher than 120. Dr. Peter Attia (peterattiamd.com) believes under 100 is best. (I am using the units commonly used in the USA.). I check the effects of the carbs I eat with a glucose meter. As examples, because of the glucose meter, I no longer eat bananas or oatmeal. I eat brown rice for breakfast but eat it with red lentils which keeps the blood glucose down.

      I have quite a bad metabolic history - my mother added sugar to just about everything we ate - lettuce, tomatoes, rice, strawberries, etc.  By age 16, I weighed 168 pounds - by 35,  I weighed 310 pounds.  Later I lost weight so that by age 50, I weighed around 200 pounds.  I am now 69 and by being careful about my diet (and taking metformin and rapamycin and doing Fasting Mimicking Diet monthly), my current weight is 160 pounds. 

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      • Adrian M
      • Adrian_M
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      David H Many thanks for this fascinating information, David!

      Yes, in the British Isles. That is great to hear, you had no side effects. I often have mildly upset stomach as is (I suffer from chronic reflux) but it's very treatable with heartburn pills, so I'm not sure what to expect.

      The most dangerous side effect from metformin I've read about is hypoglycemia. An (older) friend of mine actually died hitting his head when he had a fit and collapsed as a result of this condition (he wasn't taking any metformin).

      If you're no diabetic, how did you convince your doctor to prescribe metformin for you? I'm hoping for some tips haha.

      Yes, I pay close attention to my carb intake and have completely eliminated processed/added sugars from my diet. I also try to do the 8/16 intermittent fasting as often as I can. I'd love to get a glucose monitor, been thinking of it for a while but due to the pandemic I avoid visiting my doctor for non-essential purposes. Which glucose monitor as you using? 

      So Attia recommends to test at 1 and 2 hours after feeding? Is the ideal value of 100 the same for both? I wonder if this varies by gender (females may have a different ideal value).

      The fasting mimicking diet sounds fascinating, is there a reason you prefer to do it over intermittent fasting (other than convenience, of course)? Kind regards

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      • David H
      • David_Hanson
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Adrian M YMMV, but I don't believe that hypoglycemia is a problem with metformin.  Metformin works by reducing absorption of carbohydrates and by reducing the amount of fat converted into glucose.  It's not like taking insulin or other diabetic drugs.

      You will need to convince your doctor that the anti-aging benefits are sufficient reason to take metformin.  In the USA, a doctor prescribing metformin for anti-aging is said to be prescribing it "off label" which means a purpose for which it is not FDA approved.  Anytime a doctor prescribes off label, I presume that they have more risk to themselves (from legal liability and from problems with the medical boards). Yet, some do prescribe metformin for anti-aging.

      Here's a link from these forums about how to approach MD's about anti-aging:

      https://forum.age-reversal.net/t/18csjj/faq-how-to-work-with-the-medical-system

      I bought a Bayer Contour Next EZ Glucose Meter.  It is very inexpensive but the test strips are expensive. You prick yourself with a little device and put a little of the blood on a test strip.

      According to this link https://twitter.com/PeterAttiaMD/status/1207363088325976064 I misunderstood Dr. Attia. This twitter posting he made in December 2019 says an average of 100. Not max of 100.

      Here is another link for Dr. Attia's view on the subject:

      https://podcastnotes.org/the-drive-with-dr-peter-attia/the-drive-with-peter-attia-ask-me-anything-edition/

      Goals = Fasting glucose below 90, 1 hour post prandial <120-130, 2 hour glucose below 100 (post prandial means after a meal or eating)

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    • David H you might try a keto diet. My glucose stays very flat after keto meals

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    • David H David and others on this thread, you should be aware that metformin can significantly reduce testosterone in some seniors. I tried it several years ago when it was first being recommended for its antiaging properties. It reduced my testosterone by ~ 50 % even though I use androderm.  As a consequence my cholesterol increased due to feed back for need to produce more testosterone.  for  Calorie restriction does the same. There are multiple references to both if you google. 

      See attached for example:

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5296448/#:~:text=significant%20p%3D0.001.-,Conclusion,sex%20drive%20and%20erectile%20function.

      Senior men need testosterone, some say estradiol due to aromatiztion may be even more important, to prevent dementia, osteoporosis, sarcopenia and other senior related disabilities. There are multiple reference to these benefits also.

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      • David H
      • David_Hanson
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Peter H. Howe Thank you for the warning.  Before I started metformin my testosterone was fine but I haven't had a test for 13 months.  First due to being in SE 5 months and then we came back home in Florida due to Covid19.  I will test as soon as my wife and I agree it is safe.

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    • Peter H. Howe The study reports ED, lower T, etc., in patients with type II diabetes.  Not sure if the effect of metformin use would be similar in people non-diabetic.

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    • Dorian Gray Dorian, this is probably due to the fact that most studies are done on diabetic men. I googled the the issue, and after considerable effort, found study on non diabetic, non obese men which concluded,  after short term metformin use, that testosterone (T) was decreased. See attached:

      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11156121_Effects_of_short_term_metformin_administration_on_androgens_in_normal_men

      As indicated in E-Mail to David H., my testosterone was reduced by about 50 %,  and I supplement with androderm, a testosterone patch. My serum concentration was below an acceptable level based on LEF recommendations.

      In the Google search I found paper on PCOS treatment with metformin in women to reduce testosterone. The reduction in testosterone was due to reduction in LH . This is the hormone produced by the pituitary in men to stimulate the  the Leydig cells in testes to produce testosterone. Paper is attached.

      https://rbej.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1477-7827-12-98

      Metformin is also used to lower testosterone in women with breast cancer.

      Testosterone generally decreases significantly in senior men and this is well documented. This reduction contributes  to a number of issues like dementia, osteoporosis, sarcopenia, anemia, etc., etc. There are a multitude of peer reviewed papers on these topics. Attached is one on osteoporosis. 

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5376477/#:~:text=7.-,Conclusions,both%20primary%20and%20secondary%20hypogonadism.

      Attached is another "general" article on dementia in both men and women

      https://www.issm.info/sexual-health-qa/is-there-a-connection-between-testosterone-

      In summary, senior men may not want to use metformin if their T is in unacceptable range.  I did not go into detail, but estrogens are also important to senior men and need to be maintained. Some research suggests that estrogens may be more important that T in preventing late onset problems.  A previous commenter  on this topic indicated he used T injections to offset the negative impacts.  My androderm patch is inadequate for this purpose.

      A final comment is that calorie restriction will also significantly reduce T and is another issue discussed on this blog. This can be readily documented with google search.  

      Apologize for the wordiness but I believe this is important topic for senior men and probably women.

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    • David H David just sent long response to a Dorian Gray comment on my first comment to you. You might find it interesting.

      If you do a blood sample would you compare Ts to see if it changed due to your metformin use.

      Thanks

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    • Peter H. Howe "...Apologize for the wordiness but I believe this is important topic for senior men and probably women..."  

      I agree completely, Peter.  I've just started Metformin and intend to monitor, all hormones closely.  And let us not forget T3, TSH, also can be impacted by testosterone (vice versa).

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    • Peter H. Howe Thank you for the information. I did not know that metformin can decrease T.

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    • Staffan Olsson Steffan, Dave H and Dorian, just got the attached overview on metformin fr om Longevity right after my last correspondence with Dorian. Note toward end are comments that unpublished studies from Germany indicate that metformin may decrease life expectancy in older organisms by disrupting mitochondria function. This has also been a subject of discussion for past 2-3 years by several researchers. Barry Sears, in his most recent book "The Resolution Zone" mentioned this without reference. Note also the Longevity overview mentioned the use of metformin in treatment of PCOS. This is done by disrupting testosterone production as mentioned in my previous post. 

      https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/FMfcgxwJXftRfJJzcTBvwpSGTcdWGMQf

      If you are a senior, you may want to give use of metformin careful consideration and do periodic blood work. 

      Like 2
      • MAC
      • MAC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Peter H. Howe Hi Peter, seems like you've done a deep dive on Testosterone. I assume you believe it extends lifespan in males? Can I ask your age, and what does your doctor target for free testosterone? I am 55, and my functional medicine doctor who I took on, started me on topical cream (needle aversion onset), but it didn't work, switched to self biweekly injections. My doc targets 500 pmol/L at TROUGH, namely, the level on the morning prior to next injection. I am also on DHEA, no other meds, but a whack of targeted supplements. I am strict ketogenic diet (plant fats based), OMAD (one meal a day), high daily exerciser, both aerobic and resistance. The ghrelin signal throughout the day is very strong, especially amplified by the exercise pre meal. My blood BHB ketones average around 2 mmol/L at peak, very strong signal (ketones are a lifespan extending metabolite, ancestral preserved pathway, and a huge separate subject on its own). I am lean, very muscular, and super fit. The muscles come purely from the amount of daily resistance exercise I do. I watched my dad become frailer and frailer as he aged, associated sarcopenia, eventually succumbing to Parkinsons. I swore I would do everything possible to avoid that fate. I feel like a teenager again, super energy, high mobility, resilient. No cardio concerns (have had a CCAC), and super high aerobic exerciser. Neuro-cognitive health is my main goal, and I've had a volumetric MRI (measure volumes of different brain regions, especially MTL hippocampi), SPECT scan, and deep neuropsychological baseline testing this past year so I can track my evolution over time. My DNAage result this past July came back 52.

      Like
    • MAC Mac, I am 80 and have been on androderm ( patch) for almost 30 years following an emergency bypass.  I am hypogonadal - not just age related- and this contributed to my cardiovascular event. Note, if you are hypogonadal, this results in high cholesterol as part of feed back to increase testosterone. A second indication is anemia. If you are in your mid 40's and have anemia and high cholesterol this combination is strongly suggestive of low testosterone. I can go on for pages on this, but it sums it up. I may be 80 but I do not feel any older than when I was middle age.

      You should be aware that there is substantial number of studies that have concluded that health benefits of T therapy in senior males may in fact be due in large part to estradiol that arises from aromatization of testosterone in the liver.

      If you have a copy, suggest that you review LEF's HRT protocols in its Encyclopedia of treatment of of age related diseases. 

      I also supplement with DHEA ( as I see you do) and pregnenolone, and keep my DHEAS near the upper recommended level of 500 as recommended by LEF. This also has a number of anti aging benefits.  Note that your percentage free T  will increase from 1-2 to 4-5 % if you supplement with DHEA. This is all explained in the LEF guidance document HRT protocol.

      I also supplement with a number of other over the counter supplements. I am of the opinion that high dose fish oil is also critical to maintaining your health. It has a beneficial impact on almost all of your systems. 

      Finally, suggest you review the fisetin thread on this forum. You will note that several members have reported immediate benefits following its use-- typically at levels in the Mayo protocol. I started in June and the results were fantastic in terms of color vision and increase in strength as was reported by others. I do not know the reason as the effect was immediate and unlikely due to removal of senescent cells.

      Good luck!!!

      Like
    • MAC Forgot to emphasize that I follow LEH's recommendations on optimum hormone levels. This includes free testosterone. I only use a Dr. for a script for androderm. Most of them, including endocrinologists, don't have a clue.

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      • MAC
      • MAC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Peter H. Howe Thanks Peter. No CVD, cholesterol or anemia issues. In fact, I started donating 500mL blood religiously every 8 weeks (free to donate here) 2 years ago for the express purpose of reducing my blood iron stores (Ferritin: I happen to be homozygous H63D, so mild raised Ferritin level) as iron is HIGHLY toxic and correlated with many bad pathways (including CVD and neurodegenerative) and secondly, for the rejuvenation benefits of dumping blood and creating new white/red blood cells (you know about the parabiosis type work).

      See "Dumping Iron" https://roguehealthandfitness.com/dumping-iron/ as one good reference on why men should not have a ferritin level over 50.

      Sorry, what specific link and actionable med/supplement interventions are you referring to "LEF HRT protocol".

      This one?: 

      https://www.lifeextension.com/protocols/male-reproductive/male-hormone-restoration#SectionTestosteroneReplacementTherapies

      My doc has not measured or put me on pregnenolone. 

      You didn't comment on your actual level of free testosterone?

      Yes, I take 3 g/day of DHA/EPA fish oil...my blood squirts when I do pin pricks. My RBC Omega 3 index last check was over 12%. Along with ZINC, essential Vitamins, Resveratrol, Curcumin, Choline, B supplements.

      Glad to hear you feel so young!

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    • MAC 

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    • MAC Title is "Disease Prevention and Treatment", Fifth Ed.  It is large book  and  has 130 protocols.  I try for 20 - 25 pg/ml free testosterone  per text of Male HRT section. The book is my first go to when I start investigating a new issue such as BPH. I got it with my membership in LEF. It is out of date with new issues such as a mTOR, epigenetics and senescent cells. It does have excellent chapter on DHEA benefits. Pregnenolone is not covered directly. It is "grandmother of all steroids and gives rise to DHEA and progesterone.  The latter is recognized as important in preventing dementia and neurogenesis.

      Am having some problem with free as my Total T is declining. Am looking at using chlomiphene which stimulates pituitary to release leutenizing hormone to stimulate Leydig cells in testes to produce testosterone. My current level of free is12-15.This procedure  is not covered in the book.

      My ferritin is 50 and I still have occasions when I am anemic and supplement with low levels  of iron sulfate.

      I basically supplement with all of those that you are using.

      Fisetin is remarkable and am looking at  plasmaphoresis and replacing plasma. This is a couple years off. See what happens to someone on this forum who tries it as I did with fisetin. 

      In terms of my overall health, I think it is excellent. My chinups went from 20 to 25 the day after my first fisetin treatment. I hope these positive statements do not come back to bite me. Will knock on biggest tree I see tomorrow.

      stay safe

      Like
      • MAC
      • MAC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Peter H. Howe Free testosterone of 12-15 ng/dL is a good number, puts you in the range of a 25 yr old! Replacing plasma and such like interventions sound VERY promising indeed...I'll have to settle for 8 week phlebotomies, which according to CONBOY, he said this exchange protocol represents about 10% of the full exchange therapeutic. 25 chinups as an 80 yr old, amazing. What are you doing for diet?

      Like
      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      David H Doesn't Attia prefer berberine over metformin?

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    • MAC I will try for 20-25  as per LEF recommendations. The only reason my free  is in the current range is due to interaction with DHEA which increases free from 1-2% to 4-5 %. My total T is in range of 200 - 300 and has decreased from 400 - 500 in last 3 years. .  My DHEA is 500.  This is reason I am looking at clomiphene.

      I am on strict mediterrenean diet with chicken 1-2 X per week with a vegetable stir fry. The rest of the time I am a vegetarian which includes fruits and a lot of berries. I practice intermittent fasting with 16  - 8 window. Tried 5: 2  for two years but concluded there are adverse impacts to cholesterol and testosterone and some other issues and stopped in June. Am heavy into pre and probiotics as it appears this has many benefits. Make my own yogurt, keifer and red cabbage sauerkraut.

      My EPA/ DHA intake is ~ 5 grams /day and this keeps my triglyceride/HDL ratio at ~ 1.0. The literature suggests that this ratio eliminates any chance for a cardiovascular event. I am also of the opinion that there are a multitude of other benefits  which includes minimizing epigenetic changes due to reductions in inflammation.

      Again, good luck 

      Like
      • MAC
      • MAC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Peter H. Howe What type of EPA/DHA do you take? Yes, TG/HDL < 2, and closer to 1, is very anti-atherosclerotic...it's a surrogate for many things, especially LDL-P. I don't know about eliminating "any chance" of CV event, but definitely in lower percentile for sure. My DHEA is just above the upper lab level. Re inflammation, my hsCRP is basically zero, the last several lab tests 0.1-0.2. Re diet, I do strict keto, OMAD for the myriad of benefits of ketones. So so many, an entirely different subject/thread.

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    • MAC  I take Natures Bounty from Costco. One capsule is 0.9 gm EPA/DHA and I take 6/day. It is cheapest and one of the best quality  I could find. Problem is that Consumer Lab did not test this brand in its last go around. Previous tests found it to be one of the  best in terms of quality and price.

      I have always had  relatively high CRP (~ 1.0)) and it is going higher ( last was 3.1)-- and is age effect. Average value of centenarians is greater than 5.0  My other inflammation markers such as IL-6 are almost zero. This can be attributed in part to DHEA and resolvins from the fish oil breakdown . 

      Do not disagree with you on ketones. However you should be aware that seniors need ~ 1 gram protein/kg body weight to help prevent sarcopenia. Am of the opinion that seniors in general may need to see diet a little differently. I note that both calorie restriction and metformin significantly reduces testosterone. You can verify this with google search. I also try to get ~2.5 grams of polyphenols/day which is difficult on ketone diet due to the need for fruits and berries.

      Our dietary needs change as we age. In middle age you need only ~ 0.5 grams per day of protein but this is not adequate in old age based on the literature. I get ~ 1/2 my protein needs from whey protein isolate which also boosts my immune system. This in general is the system (in addition to some form of dementia) that will fail us if we make it past major killers of cardio and cancer.

      The landscape is always changing.  In addition to the triglyceride/hdl marker, another key indication that things are going well is whether or not the opposite sex still rings your bells. This is not a sexist comment. Another biomarker of aging is that old people talk a lot. Thought I should get that in before someone else does.

      Take care

      Like
      • MAC
      • MAC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Peter H. Howe I take daily 5ml of Carlson ELITE DHA/EPA liquid, which is 2920 total DHA/EPA (2270 DHA/430 EPA). You quote "centenarians"...that made my day! Fully aware of all the science re protein intake and sarcopenia. But what drives sarcopenia is not lack of protein but hyper mTOR and lack of resistance exercise. You do NOT need amino amino acids to build muscle...you need resistance exercise. 

      From a personal communication with Blagosklonny:

      "Amino acids do not make muscles stronger, exercise does!"

      https://www.mikhailblagosklonny.com/how-rapamycin-prevents-muscle-loss-and-sarcopenia-first-draft/

      My strict keto keeps my protein at about 20% of total calories. For my weight and build and exercise routine, I take in max 50 g/kg of animal protein. But I have grown grown my muscles massively at such LOW protein intake...this has been quite a surprise, and confirmation of Blagosklonny. So my focus re frailty and sarcopenia avoidance as I get older is not focused on protein but RESISTANCE EXERCISE. 

      Re polyphenols and ketone diet...very few people actually understand a proper and true ketogenic diet. First of all to be classified as "ketogenic", you must generate ketone metabolites. So a "low carb" diet does NOT = ketogenic. If one takes in too much protein (ala Atkins diet), it will kick you out of ketosis. Secondly, since my fats comprise approx 70% of calories, and being in a "clean" ketogenic diet (vs. animal fats), I eat only avocado/nuts (loaded with MUFA/PUFA) and typically 30-50mL of high quality EVOO daily. There is "no need" for fruits and berries in a ketogenic diet...they are full of sugar, and kick you out of ketosis! I do eat low glycemic blueberries though for the nutrients, and 100% dark chocolate which is a super food. So I am heavily loaded with polyphenols.

      Like
    • MAC MAC, if it works for you that is what you should do. I fully understand the benefits of keto,  what it involves and acknowledge that it has significant benefits, but question its merit for seniors.  I would never disagree with you on merits of exercise. My opinion is that for seniors, maintaining one's hormones in upper favorable range is critical and doing so along with exercise will curtail frailty development and sarcopenia along with inhibiting osteoporosus and dementia. There are multiple studies which confirm this.  There is further enhancement to the antiaging scenario if you  exert some control on calories, use  time limited  eating periods, use beneficial foods and consume lots of fish oil. You can google protein requirements for seniors and find a number of peer reviewed papers that suggest protein intake should be in range of 1-1.2 gm/kg. 

      In terms of the protein, I get about 35 of my 70 grams per day from whey protein in a smoothie of low fat yogurt, 1 cup frozen wild blueberries, 1 oz almonds and  10 grams of sugar free non dutch treated cocao.  I note that you eat chocolate and advise you to be careful as it has high levels of cadmium. See references in the Consumer Labs reports if you have access.

      I use whey protein due to its immune system enhancements which is critical to seniors. Suggest you google this topic. One of the biological conflicts on this topic, as there is in every biological issue,   is that males who are neutered due to some accident, cancer treatment  etc, will typically live typically live 5 - 10 years longer than the average male due to the fact that testosterone contributes to the thymus involution.

       In relation to mTOR and Blagosklonny, check out a difference of opinion.

      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40520-019-01146-1

      According to this paper, in  seniors with frailty and and muscle degradation you may want to increase mTOR with fish oil to improve muscle growth etc. This discussion is at end of the paper.

      Also note at end of the Blagosklonny is a reference to anabolic steroids increasing muscle growth. 

      In summary, what may be beneficial in middle age may not be so when your 80.

      Based on Paul B and Fred Clouds just posted comments I am going to order DNA test from epiaging usa this weekend.  MY chronological age is 80 and my Levine est DNAAm Age is 71.28. Let see what happens.

      MAC, Are we having fun. Thanks for the stimulation. 

      Like
      • Moshe M.
      • moshe_m
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Michael peter attia actually called berberine "the poor mans metformin", and prefers metformin between the two

      Like 1
  • I am 38 and got metformin from agelessrx. i have decided to only take it on the weekends. I have been wearing a cgm (they sell them as well) to track my glucose. Having also tried finger pricks, i can tell you that without a cgm its very difficult to track the rise/peak after eating, as its not consistent. I would recommend wearing a cgm for atleast one cycle of 14 days

    Like 1
      • Adrian M
      • Adrian_M
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Moshe M. Hi Moshe, can you get it without a prescription? And any idea if they ship overseas? All the sources mentioned here are US based and I live in Europe.

      Why did you decide to take metformin on the weekends only?

      Regards, Adrian

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      • MAC
      • MAC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Moshe M. So what do you learn of interest with your CGM? I tried the Freestyle Libre for 14 days, didn't learn much as I'm strict ketogenic default. I was somewhat surprised that fats and proteins didn't raise glucose...I know that's the theory, but to see it in action, after a huge ketogenic meal, is still amazing. One day I think I drank a glass of orange juice just for fun...WOW, what a massive spike. The only fruit I ever eat is blackberries or blueberries. 

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      • Moshe M.
      • moshe_m
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      MAC fat and protein will not raise glucose at all (though protein does raise insulin, so its not totally harmless).  what i learnt was pretty much related to carbs 1) the effect that not sleep enough has on glucose sensitivity 2) how exercise and sauna effect the rest of the day positivly 3) what foods i am sensitive to. for example turns out that spelt and whole wheat are just as bad for my glucose as white flour, and dairy ice cream in moderation almost does nothing. in general, eating fat with carbs will slow the carb absorbtion leading to a smaller spike 4) eating carbs at different times of the day has different effects. 

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      • MAC
      • MAC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Moshe M. I am strict ketgogenic, one meal a day...I am SUPER insulin sensitive. Ketones crush insulin. Most days I am hypoglycemic, my finger tips get numb! 

      Like
  • David H said:
    Adrian M YMMV, but I don't believe that hypoglycemia is a problem with metformin.  Metformin works by reducing absorption of carbohydrates and by reducing the amount of fat converted into glucose.  It's not like taking insulin or other diabetic drugs.
    You will need to convince your doctor that the anti-aging benefits are sufficient reason to take metformin.  In the USA, a doctor prescribing metformin for anti-aging is said to be prescribing it "off label" which means a purpose for which it is not FDA approved.  Anytime a doctor prescribes off label, I presume that they have more risk to themselves (from legal liability and from problems with the medical boards). Yet, some do prescribe metformin for anti-aging.
    Here's a link from these forums about how to approach MD's about anti-aging:
    https://forum.age-reversal.net/t/18csjj/faq-how-to-work-with-the-medical-system
    I bought a Bayer Contour Next EZ Glucose Meter.  It is very inexpensive but the test strips are expensive. You prick yourself with a little device and put a little of the blood on a test strip.
    According to this link https://twitter.com/PeterAttiaMD/status/1207363088325976064 I misunderstood Dr. Attia. This twitter posting he made in December 2019 says an average of 100. Not max of 100.
    Here is another link for Dr. Attia's view on the subject:
    https://podcastnotes.org/the-drive-with-dr-peter-attia/the-drive-with-peter-attia-ask-me-anything-edition/
    Goals = Fasting glucose below 90, 1 hour post prandial <120-130, 2 hour glucose below 100 (post prandial means after a meal or eating)

     Hi David, sorry for the delay.

    I think hypoglycemia was mentioned somewhere as a rare side effect so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

    Thanks for the links. I'll try talking to the doctor about it but it's very doubtful they'll take the chance. Is ageless.rx a good source of obtaining it without a prescription?

    Why don't you use a device that you put only once under your skin that you can keep scanning with your phone to get a glucose reading rather than having to repeatedly prick yourself? Sinclair mentions the one he uses in this recent lecture: https://youtu.be/eaS82uJER-I

    Thanks a million for the links and glucose guidelines, very helpful.

    May I ask, when you started taking metformin, was it a gradually increasing dose? I.e., did you start with 1000 or 500 and gradually climb to 2000? PS is your wife taking it too?

    Like
      • David H
      • David_Hanson
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Adrian M  1. ageless.rx has licensed doctors for all 50 states who write prescriptions (although you never see it because they order the metformin from a pharmacy near their office) I don't believe they would do international.  2. It is less expensive to use the device that does the pricks.  Dr. Sinclair has far more net worth than I do.

      3. I started with 500 and went up 500 per week.  My wife has kidney issues and doesn't take it - even though I explained to her that she was within the guidelines.

      Like
      • Adrian M
      • Adrian_M
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      David H Thanks a million David for all the information and apologies for taking so long to respond. Hope you're well, keep us updated.

      Like 1
  • I am still young (38), and there are potential small downsides to metformin. b12 depletion, lowering of testosterone, and lowering of exercise gains. I figure that on the weekends i eat worse, and dont exercise, so pulsing 2 days a week makes some sense to me. 

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