Fisetin experimentation one year (reposted as topic for info purposes)
Hello everyone I wanted to make my first post here as I have been doing a fisetin routine for a year now just about and I have results that are not placebo and very profound. I honestly do not know if this is the senylotic effect or some kind of interaction with fisetin in other ways.
To get it out of the way, I will give the fast and short version. I am taking Swanson’s Fisetin. I take around 2g a day for 3 days( now 2.5g). I repeat this for 3 or 4 times with varying intervals (I was trying to find optimal intervals).
My my first regimen was 3 days treatment with a 2 week delay, then a 3 week delay, then a 4 week delay, then a 2 month delay. I am now convinced a 3 week delay is the minimal amount of time you want taking this the way I am, though I will continue with 4 week delay for safety sake and because of my own observations.
So results. Well I feel like this must play on hormone levels in the short term. Immediately after starting a 3 day regimen, usually on day 2 or 3 I feel strong as hell. In particular my legs are tight and super strong. My muscles in general are firmer and overall strength is amazing. My mind is clear, thinking concise anddynamic. I feel more dominant, self confident, and aggressive. Libido is enhanced as well. This all led me to believe that this acts as a testosterone mimic or elevates testosterone in the blood which is why I cycle monthly and then take a few months off every so often.
i can tell you that at the age of 43 this makes me legitimately remember what early 20s feels like. The effects of one 3 day regimen last strongly for 2 weeks and even on for 4 weeks. In particular during week one and two I was amazed at the amount of pure emotion and clarity of the world around me. I could hear and appreciate sounds and colors seemed more vibrant. Mentally I am on overdrive with super memory and crystal clear logical thinking. I remember the first time I took this I was shocked. I was in a cafe just looking at a coke I had bought in a glass amazed at how more real and present it looked. A small thing but it was profound just how the world seemed more alive. It literally felt like going back in time 20 years.
So for long term effects. A stronger posture, better muscle tone, improved gum health, vastly more energy, in fact this has become all the norm after around 8 months of this. Many of the effects I described in the first two weeks following a 3 day regimen do taper off to an extent, but never completely.
As far as side effects there has not been anything thus far. When you are taking the 3 day dose you might get amped up a little jittery but that gives way quickly after the last dosage and it normalizes into a even effect that is positive in nature. I was very concerned about hair loss as I could not believe how impactful this was. But I have noticed no hair loss at all. I cycle it with a 3 or 4 week break to ensure that there is no negative effect on hair or otherwise. With a two week interval I had some scalp itchiness. That was enough to back me off to to four week intervals.
I honestly think that most of what I experienced is not the senylotic effect. It’s way too fast and profound. But I have no ill effects and feel incredible. And overall I have a youthful vigor and look and feel younger. I think a senylotic evaluation, as far as a laymen just observing himself goes ,can only really be done after 2 years or so. However the initial results ( especially gum health) and from what else I can observe are overwhelmingly positive.
I can tell you that this does have an affect and it is profound and noticeable. How much of this is hormone I do not know. But I have other improved health as well, however it’s always tricky to quantify this objectively yourself sometimes.
Good luck on your experiments. Let me know if this has the same effect for you. I just bought Swanson’s with nouvestein. Nothing fancy. Cheap and on amazon.
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Guys, anyway knows a way to easily distinguish what is fisetin and what is not?
I've ordered some with a Chinese supplier. One was obviously a scam, with some curcuma taste.
Now I've got the other. It is fine yellow powder with a bit greenish hue, from cotinus. With CoA of 99%. Well, this one IS the most bitter tasting thing I've ever tested on my tongue! It is quite stainy, and smells musty.
But what puzzles me, is that Doctor's Best is not bitter at all.
Do you have any experience/ideas of how to figure this out?
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Andrew Whitfield So, which one are you saying is right?
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John Ramos I don't know, to be honest. I was able to buy some with other, non-Chinese supplier and used it as well.
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Andrew Whitfield Did you notice any difference taking the various brands?
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Hi, new here. I am 41 years old and have heard about fisetin senolytic therapy quite long time ago. Since then I've been taking 100 mg (doctor's best) fisetin on and off. Now it's maybe time to go one step further - I might want to take a higher dose. But is fisetin even effective at this age? I read elsewhere that one should be at least 50 years old. But I have arthritis and allergies and many different other ailments. So fisetin might help me. Or maybe instead of taking these high doses like 3 grams for 3 consecutive days every month I might want to take lower doses every day? I read that it also has some senolytic effect too. Sidenote: I am 41 but I look as if I was 30 years old or younger. I assume that this is due to taking a lot of supplements (flavonoids, curcumin, etc.) since I was 24. So these flavonoids work, I guess.
PS. Are there any other anti-aging therapies within my reach ie. as simple as buying supplements. I'm not particularly thrilled at the prospect of buying Dasatinib (or doing similar things) and it may be too early for me to take it as well. I know, I know, there are forums to be browsed here but maybe someone could bring me up to speed.
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Mick IsSick You are wasting your time and money doing 100mg/d of something as poorly bioavailable as fisetin IMHO. 3 days of 2-3g/d would yield a more meaningful result. If you don't want to do D+Q, the others are even weaker alternatives, especially at low doses. 40 is not young but it is not old either so a monthly or quarterly senolytic cycle would suffice to keep your senescent load in check.
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aribadabar I disagree, Not everyone takes fisetin for senolytic purposes and fisetin at 100mg makes me feel noticeably different. Now, if you are trying to get a senolytic effect from fisetin 100mg then I would agree, I dont think that is going to do much of anything.
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Fred Cloud You must be either extremely sensitive to it or weigh 150lb or less. Make a proper biodistribution calculation at fisetin's un-assisted bioavailability and see how unlikely it is to do anything for the typical male at 100mg/d.
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aribadabar I don't know if I am extremely sensitive to fisetin but I know for a fact that I have a leaky gut. Maybe that's why fisetin absorbs better. So, what would be the maximal or effective doses that could be used on a daily basis (let's forget for a moment that I have a leaky gut). 200, 300 mg a day? Because as I read in the Amazon's review a 500 mg dose a day for five consecutive days is considered to have a senolytic effect and it was used in some kind of a protocol (don't remember the name). And then there is the other version of the protocol ie. 3 grams per day for 3 consecutive days... Of course it's all a matter of experimentation what is good for you and what works for you but I would like to know opinions of more experienced people here...
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Mick IsSick To be honest I would do no less than 800 mg a day. I feel like 300mg is going to be metabolized too quickly. 3g for 3 days is what I stick to. I have done this for around 3 years now. I repeat every month to 3 weeks.
I had not seen my family in 5 years and they were in shock because they were expecting someone much older to come back home. I look younger than my younger brother now. I am not saying this is proof positive of anything.
But I am 45 and people think I am in my twenties. It's gotten to the point I expect them to think I am much younger than I am. Again doesn't mean anything. But I suspect the only way to do this is CONSISTENCY. Regardless of immediate results.
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David C Thats impressive. So you started to look younger than you used to or your looks stopped aging? What else have you noticed long term doing this?
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Fred Cloud Well I mean I am being told I look like late 20s to early 30s. Some of it could be genetic. I can tell you that I have noticed a younger face, no wrinkles, very little gray hair at all. I feel like I somewhat stopped a lot of the aging and reversed some aging...mostly in soft tissues. Like it's not going to reverse gray hairs or anything. Also my muscles are very pliant and firm and I don't really work out.
My total regimen is:
Fisetin (monthly 3g x 3 days)
C-AKG 1800 mg (daily)
NMN (around 800 mg daily)
Oxytocin 4 sprays (daily)
I a feel very confident about Fisetin and C-AKG. NMN definitely helps with energy levels and brain activity, probably does a lot more synergistically with AKG. Oxytocin is good for muscle repair and I am giving it a go to see if when on it long enough (as we have this when we are very young) could it influence some cells to express a younger type.
I added all of this other stuff at the beginning of this year. If I drop anything it will be Oxytocin and then NMN. C-AKG is solid and so is Fisetin.
A final note on Fisetin. Some naysayers say its a senomorphic compound that it only mutes cykotine signals from senescent cells. And that it does not remove them. But the fact is I believe it's doing both. So when you take Fisetin you do get a very good feeling from it, like the body is relaxing and not going to war with itself. And this can fade after a week or two. But you never return to where you left off. And so it's also permanently removing some senescent cells.
I noticed this when I first took Fisetin. The immediate effect was amazing, night and day. And then some of that wore off but I'd say a good 50% to 70& of it stayed with me permanently. I have in fact felt better since the first time I did it.
So likely it is muting senescent cell signaling and killing some of them. When Fisetins activity wears off the ones it did not kill turn back on so to speak. But you can always repeat in 3 weeks or a month and try to get some more of them.
This is currently how I think it works with what I have been experiencing. But it's perfectly safe. I really feel great when I use it. But I want to make sure that cells don't adapt to it, as it needs to shock the system so to speak. Therefore I personally would avoid daily dosing. Better to do bigger portions monthly.
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David C Very interesting. I am very eager to hear any long term effects of these relatively new approaches like senolytics since we dont have many long term experiences. Have you considered doing a DNA age test to see what is happeing?
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David C What are your thoughts on AAKG instead of C-AKG? And what brand of Fistein are you using?
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Chris I imagine AAKG could be useful too. I just did C-AKG because of the mouse study. Generally speaking if I see very large results for mice and I think it's safe to try in humans then I might give it a go.
C-AKG definitely works. AAKG likely will too. I know the calcium salt was mainly for absorption.
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David C
Where do you buy your C-AKG ?
There is one downside of A-AKG. In people like me where just about any supplement will cause side effects, A-AKG causes severe headaches. This is due to arginine being produced during A-AKG metabolism. I didn't even know that something like C-AKG is available... but now I will probably try it out.
Speaking of side effects... many supplements will make me sleepy and NMN as well as niacin make me very sleepy. I know that it has something to do with GABA receptor in my brain being overactive / too abundant because, for example, taurine makes me sleepy too. It just knocks me down... I'm wondering if anyone has an idea how to counteract this sleepiness...
And speaking of counteracting sleepiness... fisetin is very good at this... I'd say too good. Here is my experience that I gathered after a few days of experimentation.
I took 500 mg on the first day, then 800 mg on the second day - felt like that was enough because I could barely sleep after taking 800 mg. So I decided to stop for a few days but this break lasted only 1 day because I read above that one should take fisetin with oil or dissolve it in oil. My go-to oil in such cases is MCT oil.
Boy, it worked better than expected. After taking 100 mg dissolved in a table spoon of MCT oil the effects were greater than 800 mg before. Of course this still requires confirmation because I had to take a break from fisetin once again - after 100 mg and MCT oil I could barely sleep - I kind of slept but I could recall all of my dreams (I like that state of mind where you are able to recall dreams but to an extent and not for the whole night) and had to wake up every two hours.
So, I guess now I need to try 50 mg dissolved in MCT oil and see how that goes.
The problem is that I don't know if 100 mg dissolved in MCT oil is the high dose (used for senolytic clearing of your cells) or the small dose (let's call it a maintenance dose).
Anyways, I am kind of thrilled to have found this new way that fisetin works for me though some adjustments have to be made - or maybe I will get used to the higher dose and that will be it.
One thing that I also fing strange is that fisetin makes me agitated and I feel very well on it and people above wrote that it made them sleepy. I would expect fisetin to make me sleepy too but it worked in a completely different way.
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David C
How is the stack above going for you?
Still feeling/looking half your age?
Did you drop the Oxytocin ?
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Also even if Fisetin is muting signals a good deal it's still quite useful to give the body a non polluted environment to operate in so that it can restore tissue homeostasis. You turn off a large portion of senescent cell signaling for a week or even a few days then that gives the body some time to normalize and rejuvenate. Additionally like I said it must be taking some of the senescent cells out as well. I just don't see the downside to fisetin here. Other than cost.
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David C All things do point to it being a senomorph. But I agree I think it probably also has senolytic properties too, but who knows? It is a tricky, because what if it doesnt? What would happen if you just suppressed senescent cells for a long time, wouldnt more and more senescent cells keep building and not getting removed by the immune system and if you never remove them and just keep suppressing them it would be like not paying a bill and it just accrues interest. Have you considered doing occasional cycles of Dasatanib or fox04-dri which is definitely a senolytic just to make sure you are making progress and not kicking the can down the road?
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Fred Cloud I am not so sure that all thing point to it being a senomorph. Certainly no more than Dasatinib or others. All experiments have included Fisetin in much the same way as other senolytics. Why it is people single out Fisetin is quite amazing when they readily assume that Quercetin, which is chemical a flavanoid very similar to Fisetin, is just dandy paired with Dasatinib.
In all honesty Fisetin has been shown to significantly reduce age related effects in mice and to extend their lifespan. The testing for these mice was done in much the same way as with FOX04 and Dasatinib. Why should we toss some results as faulty and others keep as legit when there is no difference on how they are measuring the effects?
The same samples are taken, the same analysis is done.
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David C I am not saying fisetin is bad or it doesnt have anti aging benefits. I am simply saying it is quieting the cells temporarily rather than killing them off.
The reason why I say it points to being a senomorph are its effects are different than senolytics. I have read lots of reviews and feedback and they all point to fisetins effect being 3-4 weeks and then it reverts. Well senescent cells wouldnt just build back up in all people in such a consistent time frame. Most senolytic experts say it is only needed a few times a year bit if you are getting only a 3 week effect than that is something different. So when you have that action of suppressing sasp mode temporarily and consistently that points to it being a senomorph rather than killing it off like a senolytic.
If it was truly killing off the cells the reversion would be longer and inconsistent and vary in time frame and also the reversion would be more subtle as the healthy cells would slowly and radomly geroconvert into senenescent cells so the reversion would be drawn out over time rather than a sharper reversion like fisetin happening pretty quickly between week 3 and 4. Also, the initial effect of doing a round of fisetin is pretty immediate and positive. People who take dasatanib report feeling down for a day or two while the body deals with dead cells. People arent reporting that with fisetin, they just get generally positive effects and not much downside.
As far as quercetin, I agree. I am not even sure it does much of anything. Even Dr Green dropped it.
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Fred Cloud It seems you are outright reject clinical data in favor of people "feeling" it does one thing or another. The thing is the data on Fistein is just as conclusive as other senolytics. FOX04-DRI also has hard to "feel" effects too. When you get into how people feel its very subjective. Data in the lab is less so. All data in the lab supports Fisetin being a senolytic as much as other compounds.
And the results in mice were significant in terms of anti aging.
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David C Why do you think I am rejecting clinical data?
The first thing I said was "I am not saying fisetin is bad or it doesn't have anti aging benefits."
It seems like you think since I am saying fisetin has senomorph properties it is therefore totally useless and does nothing. Which I have said nothing of the sort.
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Fred Cloud
You wrote: "I am simply saying it is quieting the cells temporarily rather than killing them off."
Research either published or presented at ARDD 2020 shows that, at least for human cell cultures and aging mice, Fisetin does more than just "quieting" senescent cells. In particular, the senescent cells in the human cell cultures die, and a paper from U. Minnesota showed cross-sections of aging mice with the beta-gal stained blue (indicating the presence of senescent cells). The untreated control group was very blue, while the Fisetin-treated mice showed almost no blue staining. There is similar evidence for D+Q and D and Q separately.
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JGC I should have clarified, I do believe that fisetin is also a senolytic and does kill senescent cells, but it also has senomorphic properties that also quiets some of the senescent cells which is why people experience a noticeable wearing off effect after 3-4 weeks when the quieted cells wake back up.
Also, do we know for certain that beta gal staining can discriminate between senescent cells and senomorphic cells in a quieted state? If you are shutting down the sasp by putting it to sleep by a senomorph, then how do we know the staining results arent getting fooled?
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Fred Cloud
Interesting question. I would think that once beta-gal is present, it would not easily go away, even if the SASP was temporarily stopped.
I note that in a recent Foresight Institute interview, Dr. James Kirkland said that Fisetin and D+Q are able to kill senescent cells because they suppress the cell's ability to survive the SASP they are emitting. Further, benign senescent cells (e.g., those involved in wound healing) that do not produce SASP are not cleared by these senolytics. That doesn't sound like the SASP is being shut off.
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