Fisetin experimentation one year (reposted as topic for info purposes)
Hello everyone I wanted to make my first post here as I have been doing a fisetin routine for a year now just about and I have results that are not placebo and very profound. I honestly do not know if this is the senylotic effect or some kind of interaction with fisetin in other ways.
To get it out of the way, I will give the fast and short version. I am taking Swanson’s Fisetin. I take around 2g a day for 3 days( now 2.5g). I repeat this for 3 or 4 times with varying intervals (I was trying to find optimal intervals).
My my first regimen was 3 days treatment with a 2 week delay, then a 3 week delay, then a 4 week delay, then a 2 month delay. I am now convinced a 3 week delay is the minimal amount of time you want taking this the way I am, though I will continue with 4 week delay for safety sake and because of my own observations.
So results. Well I feel like this must play on hormone levels in the short term. Immediately after starting a 3 day regimen, usually on day 2 or 3 I feel strong as hell. In particular my legs are tight and super strong. My muscles in general are firmer and overall strength is amazing. My mind is clear, thinking concise anddynamic. I feel more dominant, self confident, and aggressive. Libido is enhanced as well. This all led me to believe that this acts as a testosterone mimic or elevates testosterone in the blood which is why I cycle monthly and then take a few months off every so often.
i can tell you that at the age of 43 this makes me legitimately remember what early 20s feels like. The effects of one 3 day regimen last strongly for 2 weeks and even on for 4 weeks. In particular during week one and two I was amazed at the amount of pure emotion and clarity of the world around me. I could hear and appreciate sounds and colors seemed more vibrant. Mentally I am on overdrive with super memory and crystal clear logical thinking. I remember the first time I took this I was shocked. I was in a cafe just looking at a coke I had bought in a glass amazed at how more real and present it looked. A small thing but it was profound just how the world seemed more alive. It literally felt like going back in time 20 years.
So for long term effects. A stronger posture, better muscle tone, improved gum health, vastly more energy, in fact this has become all the norm after around 8 months of this. Many of the effects I described in the first two weeks following a 3 day regimen do taper off to an extent, but never completely.
As far as side effects there has not been anything thus far. When you are taking the 3 day dose you might get amped up a little jittery but that gives way quickly after the last dosage and it normalizes into a even effect that is positive in nature. I was very concerned about hair loss as I could not believe how impactful this was. But I have noticed no hair loss at all. I cycle it with a 3 or 4 week break to ensure that there is no negative effect on hair or otherwise. With a two week interval I had some scalp itchiness. That was enough to back me off to to four week intervals.
I honestly think that most of what I experienced is not the senylotic effect. It’s way too fast and profound. But I have no ill effects and feel incredible. And overall I have a youthful vigor and look and feel younger. I think a senylotic evaluation, as far as a laymen just observing himself goes ,can only really be done after 2 years or so. However the initial results ( especially gum health) and from what else I can observe are overwhelmingly positive.
I can tell you that this does have an affect and it is profound and noticeable. How much of this is hormone I do not know. But I have other improved health as well, however it’s always tricky to quantify this objectively yourself sometimes.
Good luck on your experiments. Let me know if this has the same effect for you. I just bought Swanson’s with nouvestein. Nothing fancy. Cheap and on amazon.
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Paul, I agree on discounting most of those instant effects as placebo.
Just read more on Life Extensions's new product, bio-available fisetin. They claim the human digestive tract converts fisetin into a useless form and that some manufacturer has discovered that a natural fiber extract from the herb fenugreek prevents this. The study is not published yet and is written by the manufacturer:
Akay. A cross over pilot pharmacokinetic study of fisetin 1000mg and formulated fisetin 200mg administered in a single dose to healthy volunteers. Manufacturer’s study (in press for future publication) . 2020.
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Dean W. Studies are always suspect, IMO. Some for obvious deception, but most due to omissions. How many studies were done, to get the one with results worth publishing? And in pharm industry, the contents of placebo are never revealed, but mostly created to simulate the side effects of tested product.
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I'm skeptical that taking a round of fisetin helps doing more pushups. A senolytic is killing off a few senescent cells. Probably should reduce inflammation markers over time. Instant results? What mechanism of action would explain that other than placebo?
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Paul Beauchemin Take a look at the original post at the top of the page from David. He talked at length about the strength gains he got from senolytics and theorized that it boosts testosterone. I did some research and confirmed that they have found andropause or age related test decline to senescent cells and posted the study.
study showing senolytic treatment reverses age related testosterone decline by killing off sensecent cells in the teste leydig cells.
FOXO4-DRI(senolytics) alleviates age-related testosterone secretion insufficiency by targeting senescent Leydig cells in aged mice.
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Fred Cloud https://researchpeptides.net/product/peptides/foxo4-dri-10mg/ "*Includes one 30mL Bacteriostatic Water with orders over $300.00" LOL
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Michael yeah, I know, expensive. I think if fisetin is boosting testosterone then you can substitute it instead. Much, much cheaper and safer. I am tempted to try it just to see what happens though.
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Fred Cloud I think I might buy it as a Christmas present to myself. But I'll make sure to post before and after, "'Scanners' head exploding" photos for the group. That's the stuff referenced in the article though, correct?
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Michael yes, thats the stuff. Just a thought but if you are going to buy it why not wait until you have experience with lots of rounds of other senolytics like fisetin and then you would have more experience to compare and assess if it is any better or more effective and therefore worth it. Also, with other rounds of senolytics before you might be able to clear away the low hanging fruit senescent cells with cheaper senolytics first and then bring out the more exotic guns later.
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Fred Cloud Good thoughts. BOY there's a ton of potentially good things on that site. The Cosmetic Peptides section in particular.
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Michael yeah, I have bought lots of stuff from them over the years. Mainly cjc-1295 combos and bpc-157 thymosin alpha 1 etc, but actually none of the cosmetic peptides though. This is the main site you actually buy from though https://www.peptidesciences.com/
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Fred Cloud yes I have received similar results as David but I do notice that it takes a few days for me to get that burst of energy. In fact I notice some tightness' in my chest while I am doing the senolytics ....so I always go more modertly when i walk while doing the senolytics . When I do senolytics I never strain on any excersize. I took it a few days ago and yesterday I had a burst of walking that reminded me of my walking 20 years ago. I could feel immense power. But the real changes that astound me is that my body has become incredibly limber. I am getting into yoga posses that I have never been able to do and I have done yoga for over 40 years. My limber body is itself a miracle and not one that I expected. I do not think that is due to placebo... I started noticing this about 6 months ago. I have done Fisetin and Quercetin over 15 to 20 times.... and Dasatinib maybe 8 times plus or minus. But I live a healthy life style as well. My prostate always bothers me less after doing senolytics which is a God send.
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garland wow, thats an impressive amount of senolytic rounds. How long have you been doing these, do you do it once a month? I have found myself feeling more limber after taking rapamycin.
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Fred Cloud this paper doesn't claim that taking a senolytic raises testosterone
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Fred Cloud Peptides seem like a very interesting area to explore. I don't know how to create a whole new category on the home page, but I hope a moderator can do it so a discussion can develop. For example, thymosin alpha-1 may help regenerate the some immunity
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Paul Beauchemin Huh? Yes, the study does say that senolytics increase testosterone
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Fred Cloud Yes I try to take it every 3 or 4 weeks..... I like the feeling that I get with it. Makes me feel younger. Is it a placebo... maybe but the power of the placebo is huge why not harness it with positive affirmations and like life more fully that way. however I have taken many such nutrients with amazing claims and this is one of the very very few that actually delivered something to me that i can feel strong results from. And the less pain in my prostate is huge as well. I can not tell you how many things I have tried to help my prostate but not much worked at all. So why does fisetin etc work so well as a placebo? LOL... maybe because it is not a placebo. Also I had no idea that it would help my prostate nor did I have any idea that it would help me do better in Yoga poses. So hard to assign placebo to unknown results....
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so, if someone claims testosterone is increased via fisetin, take a blood test and show results. Guessing is for the artists, not the scientists
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Paul Beauchemin Paul, have blood test before and after starting fisetin. Blood test on May 13 and Nov 5. Started Mayo protocol on June 8 (1.5 gm, 2 consecutive days), and repeated 6 times before Nov test. Total T on May 13 was 197 (Free T was 11.1) and it was 199 ( Free T was 13.0) on Nov 5. I am hypogonadal and use 4 mg Androderm patches daily. My free T is in normal range due to use of DHEA and high dose fish oil.
There was also no differences in Levin age markers on the two test dates except that I was a year older on input.
As I said before in previous post, there was a significant impact on color vision and marked increase in chinups and pullups. This was immediate and not a placebo effect. The increase in pullups and chinups did not increase after first increase but remained at the same increased level. My opinion is that there may be an effect on mitochondria but I don't know. Did find papers on improved vision attributed to fisetin but explanation and biochemistry was above my paygrade.
Mayo is doing 3, phase 2 trial on seniors. Must be a reason.
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Peter H. Howe so no effect on T nor age markers.
The mind is quite powerful. I can use hypnosis to get you to double your chin ups!
still skeptical about senolytics since no real life extension benefit has been demonstrated. Maybe they'll pan out.
Everyone is entitled to spend their money where they want of course.
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Paul Beauchemin You are stretching credibility. If your comment on the power of hypnosis was correct ( and it is not) , everyone could run a 4 minute mile. To cure any disease, all one would have to do is visit a psychotherapist. There are placebo effects, but these are limited.
Note, I did not attribute my personal experience with fisetin to its senescent cell removal which is well documented. The effects were immediate and it is "unlikely" that the increase in strength, endurance and improvements in color vision could be attributed that quickly to senescent cell removal.
Mayo Clinic studies are based on placebo effects? Doubt it.
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Peter H. Howe Q.E.D. No evidence to support any of the claims is substantiated.
My point has never been about whether or not fisetin will or won't be an effective anti-aging supplement. It has been to counter the wild claims being made in this thread about supposed benefits. These claims are terribly irresponsible to people researching anti-aging.
Claims that fisetin improves testosterone, increases pull ups or better color are junk science.
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Paul Beauchemin I am not sure that self reports are considered pure research per se. However many look at self reports as valid ways of discovering avenues to do productive research. For sure in human studies self reports are considered as valuable ways to discover information. It is a great start.. but these forums are interesting and help us understand what maybe happening within the parameters of self reported effects of Senolytics. It is not junk science because no one is saying that this is a regular study with adequate controls etc. To be quite candid with you there is not any real science that can be done on human beings in real life situations. We do correlation research then compare to animal models . This model is the way the research was done on cigarette smoking to prove causality etc. Without the animal research it would have been difficult to assign causality. So human research for the most part is done with correlational type research which is difficult to find causation. Too many factors influence blood test results to really give us much information. However with large sample sizes this tends to give us patterns that can be very helpful to assigning possible causality. So animal models are very helpful here in assigning some credibility to the correlation research done on humans. So I would say that this forum can provide us with some meaningful information but not true scientific research results.
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Paul Beauchemin Thanks for the comment. I will keep it in mind when I submit my fisetin order to Swanson. I waste a lot of money as it costs me ~ $12 /month. Must drive the pharmaceutical people nuts.
I enjoy doing my 26 chinups and improved color vision.
In terms of Q.E.D. You might want to review some of Fred's references and those in the Forever Healthy Risk assessment. Throw in the Mayo studies.
I seem to recall that you expressed similar comments about statins. I attribute my 27 years of healthy survival after an emergency bypass to a statin ( and fish oil.).The probability of surviving this long after a bypass without another intervention is is less than 5%. Guess my N=1 doesn't count on this issue either.
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Peter H. Howe As usual, the truth is somewhere in between. Fisetin apparently does NOT boost T but improves exercise performance - most likely, due to improved mitochondrial health, removing dysfunctional senescent cells and thus creating a healthier and more youthful cellular milieu. That is to say, it works but often not the way we think it does. Another point is the existing cellular burden - someone in their 40s with barely any would not notice huge improvements while someone 60+ most likely will. So there are a lot variables to account for the different user experiences.
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aribadabar Truth is truth-- it does not change. The problem is that biology has a very wide 95 % confidence level. What can save me can kill you. Statins are an example.
Your point on age as a major issue in that some experience enhancement in some physical functions and not others do not may be why I experienced what I experienced with fisetin. Thanks for pointing it out. I am 80 yo.
I am somewhat confused by your testosterone comment. I specifically documented to Paul B. that my testosterone level was not affected based on blood work after 6 months of fisetin usage. . The same was true for Levine phenotype and DNAm age biological estimates.
I am not sure, with long term use of fisetin, that testosterone level will not be increased if senescent Leydig cells are removed in the testes. I don't know and others have speculated that this may occur.
I indicated to Paul B. that it was my opinion that my almost instantaneous increase in strength, endurance and improved color vision was "probably" due to mitochondrial enhancement as you suggested. I do not know for sure what factors were involved in the improvements but something happened. In my opinion it was unlikely due to senescent cell removal. This process will ultimately take place based on the literature, but as of yet I do not have any method to document this on a personnel basis.
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aribadabar You are saying someone in their 40's would barely notice improvement, but the topic starter david c is 43 years old and is describing in detail that he has a huge improvement along with other people that have posted that they have noticeable effects in their 40's from senolytics. So your theory doesnt seem to be the case.
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