Fisetin experimentation one year (reposted as topic for info purposes)
Hello everyone I wanted to make my first post here as I have been doing a fisetin routine for a year now just about and I have results that are not placebo and very profound. I honestly do not know if this is the senylotic effect or some kind of interaction with fisetin in other ways.
To get it out of the way, I will give the fast and short version. I am taking Swanson’s Fisetin. I take around 2g a day for 3 days( now 2.5g). I repeat this for 3 or 4 times with varying intervals (I was trying to find optimal intervals).
My my first regimen was 3 days treatment with a 2 week delay, then a 3 week delay, then a 4 week delay, then a 2 month delay. I am now convinced a 3 week delay is the minimal amount of time you want taking this the way I am, though I will continue with 4 week delay for safety sake and because of my own observations.
So results. Well I feel like this must play on hormone levels in the short term. Immediately after starting a 3 day regimen, usually on day 2 or 3 I feel strong as hell. In particular my legs are tight and super strong. My muscles in general are firmer and overall strength is amazing. My mind is clear, thinking concise anddynamic. I feel more dominant, self confident, and aggressive. Libido is enhanced as well. This all led me to believe that this acts as a testosterone mimic or elevates testosterone in the blood which is why I cycle monthly and then take a few months off every so often.
i can tell you that at the age of 43 this makes me legitimately remember what early 20s feels like. The effects of one 3 day regimen last strongly for 2 weeks and even on for 4 weeks. In particular during week one and two I was amazed at the amount of pure emotion and clarity of the world around me. I could hear and appreciate sounds and colors seemed more vibrant. Mentally I am on overdrive with super memory and crystal clear logical thinking. I remember the first time I took this I was shocked. I was in a cafe just looking at a coke I had bought in a glass amazed at how more real and present it looked. A small thing but it was profound just how the world seemed more alive. It literally felt like going back in time 20 years.
So for long term effects. A stronger posture, better muscle tone, improved gum health, vastly more energy, in fact this has become all the norm after around 8 months of this. Many of the effects I described in the first two weeks following a 3 day regimen do taper off to an extent, but never completely.
As far as side effects there has not been anything thus far. When you are taking the 3 day dose you might get amped up a little jittery but that gives way quickly after the last dosage and it normalizes into a even effect that is positive in nature. I was very concerned about hair loss as I could not believe how impactful this was. But I have noticed no hair loss at all. I cycle it with a 3 or 4 week break to ensure that there is no negative effect on hair or otherwise. With a two week interval I had some scalp itchiness. That was enough to back me off to to four week intervals.
I honestly think that most of what I experienced is not the senylotic effect. It’s way too fast and profound. But I have no ill effects and feel incredible. And overall I have a youthful vigor and look and feel younger. I think a senylotic evaluation, as far as a laymen just observing himself goes ,can only really be done after 2 years or so. However the initial results ( especially gum health) and from what else I can observe are overwhelmingly positive.
I can tell you that this does have an affect and it is profound and noticeable. How much of this is hormone I do not know. But I have other improved health as well, however it’s always tricky to quantify this objectively yourself sometimes.
Good luck on your experiments. Let me know if this has the same effect for you. I just bought Swanson’s with nouvestein. Nothing fancy. Cheap and on amazon.
-
As a retired scientist, I would suggest thatyou must be careful that what you describe as effect is all subjective, or the placebo effect. OK, so you were stronger and faster? Did your 5K race time improve? What about peak weight lift on any given machine? Those of us posting on this blog need to focus on hard verifiable results... IMHO
AS an alternative.... consider the following report... We are 70 &75 respectively. My wife has had bone density scores of T= -2 for yrs and I have a T= -1 in my spine, after 3 yrs on 2500mg liposomal fisetin q week. Both T scores are 0 (ZERO). Also we have had peridontal disease scoring yearly at the Univ of Fla Faculty Dental Clinic.... Over 3 yrs our peridontal disease scores have approached what we would expect at ages 30-40. THat is our previous -3 to -4 scores ate now 0 to -1.
Look at Researchgate.com or Sciencedirect.com. There is hard science there supporting the effects of fisetin on peridontal disease and bone metabolism in post menopausal women and older men.
PLEASE when anyone reports self experimentation... don't report that you were much improved in a few days when we are talking about disease processes that affect us over years!
-
Allen DeLaney That is some impressive results.
I take 1200mg liposomal fisetin for 2 or 3 consecutive days once a month as part of my senolytic cocktail of D&Q&F. But I havent seen any change in hair color.
Perhaps I should add a weekly fisetin only.
-
chuck stanley so
-
chuck stanley SO,how long have you been treating yourself? Mary & I only nptoced the hair color changes aftrr a yr or so. Also, I may not have mentioned it,but we're taking liposomal fisetin to increase the absorption from the single digit #s of the plain flavenol
-
Allen DeLaney
I’ve been taking monthly D& Q or D&F for several years. I’ve recently changed from D&F on 2 consecutive days to D&Q&F for 3 consecutive days since my senolytic markers were higher than I had hoped.
And yes, I also take liposomal version to increase absorption.
I’ll pay closer attention to any change in hair color. I suspect that if there really is a replicable melanogenic effect, this higher dose may be the key. It could, in fact, be that it is the senolytic effect of high dose fisetin that might contribute to melanogenesis.
That would be a very interesting finding!
-
chuck stanley
-
Allen DeLaney
-
Allen DeLaney Please tell us what brand(s) of liposomal fisetin your are using. Did you get it on Amazon or where? Also confirm when you take the 2500 mg; is it spread over 3 days every week or some other distribution. Thanks.
-
Dean W. we've used several different brands from amazon , taking 2400-2500 mg in a single dose usualy w a fatty meal
As a scientist, I've spent hours trying to locate: A. Product w fisetin content verified by assay: B liposomal prep similar to that described in several research articles to no avail, outside of verified research assay sites. Sending commercially available product to std research assay services would make this unresaonably expensive. I've tried to contact 4 different mfgs, and never gotten a response
-
Allen DeLaney Thanks for the reply. I suspect they are all made in China by contract chemists in relatively small batches since we represent a small market.
-
Dean W. genogna liposomal fisetin on Amazon , 1200mg $44 for a pack of two with 60 capsules each.
I took 2400 mg each day for three days always with fat and currently I’m taking it with olive oil from life extension, which has a high polyphenol count of over 600.
I didn’t expect such dramatic results and I can’t really explain it and why it improves my performance.
-
Dean W. I forgot to add that initially I took it for three days and waited three weeks to do it again, and I repeated that. Then I shortened the resting duration in between to 2 weeks, and now whenever I notice, my pulse is going down on the bike I take it again which is approximately every two weeks for three days. I hope I answered all your questions if not, let me know!
-
John Mcgough Very interesting. Can you share more details on what happens with your pulse on the bike? I would think that if your endurance drops off after 2 weeks, your pulse would go up rather than down. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying.
-
Julie King I can’t totally explain why it works this way. One theory is I can not pedal as hard, even even though I think I am so my pulse doesn’t go up. Just , four days ago I rode my bike hard for 17 minutes and couldn’t get my pulse up over 124. That evening with dinner I took 2400 MG of my fisetin, and the next morning another 2400 MG, and when I did the bike that afternoon, I felt really strong and my pulse went to 163. If anything, I should’ve been tired from riding hard the day before.
i’m just reporting my results. I don’t have an adequate explanation, but it has worked like this continuously for me.
-
-
Thank you for sharing, Allen DeLaney. It is the hard science and objective self experimentation reports such as yours that keep me on my episodic fisetin/senolytic protocol, despite not having my own hard anecdotal evidence. My improved numbers on a few measurements could well be attributed to several confounding variables. Then again, we shouldn't necessarily expect to notice somewhat diminished or even slightly reversed aging from our partial elimination of senescent cells.
-
Thxfor the feedback!. I might add one more piece of hard evidence. Both my wife & I have had progressive partial reversal of our grey & white hair. Mine to black & hers to brown over the last 2-3 yrs. Her stylist commemts/gripes a bit. My hair in pix is approaching the amount of color when I was about 60!
-
Sorry, I've not been accurate, I finally checked on fisetin dose. We've been taking 2400 mg of liposomal fisetin weekly w a fatty meal
-
Allen DeLaney Very interesting effect. Have you tried topical application?
-
Dorian Gray
A. It would be very nice if the lab produced exosomes as described in your good, reviewed article could be bought on the open market, but I've not been able to find a single source. W regard to the issue of hair growth, in our little experiment of two individuals in the 70s taking OTC liposomal fisetin for3+ yrs, not only has our hair substantially darkened toward the colors we both had 30 yrs ago, but also both hair and nails are growing substantially faster. For instance, I used to clip my nails once every two weeks, and religiously scrub them to maintain a clean appearance for my patients.... Now I clip them once a week. My wife's hair was extremely slow growing. She got her hair cut every 2-3 months.... Now she rarely goes more than 6-7 weeks.
Oct 2020 DOI: 10.3389/fcell.2020.566617 ISBN: 2296-634X
With regard to topical application as well as oral ingestion, I think we all know that fisetin has low water solubility, and low absorption when taken by itself orally. There is little information on transdermal absorption available. However, IMHO, we all stand to learn more about uptake both ways since fisetin is proving to not only directly benefit cancer patients, but to improve the function of various anti tumor agents... e.g combined w cis-platin for treating things like lung cancer. Since there is hundreds, if not thousands more money in cancer research compared to longevity research, we will see much more about fisetin in articles concerning cancer treatment in the future:
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ejphar.2016.07.001
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijpharm.2023.123744 -
Allen DeLaney Back in 2020 I was already aware that fisetin had poor solubility in water. I looked it up and found that the value was 0.151 mg per ml. This means that 1 gallon of water (3785 ml) will dissolve 571 mg of fisetin. So taking 2 grams of fisetin would require almost 4 gallons of water to drink. A bit too much.
But how about topical use on skin and hair? It would be easy to mix up a gallon and apply some every time you showered. This might be worth trying. Also, fisetin solubility in ethanol is listed as "3 to 5 mg per ml" so that might be even better for topical application.
-
-
If the individual experiencing what he describes as an improvement in exercise performance wanted to find out how much he improved, rather tjan how much he thought or felt he improved, he mightget somone to do a max O2 uptake test after his fisetin dose, then repeat at least some weeks latet when he subjectively feels his performance has decrease or his max HR decreases significantly as described
-
Allen DeLaney that would be nice if someone was available to perform a test. however, I want to point out that my result aren’t just subjective. I can actually see a difference in my pulse riding an exercise bike increasing dramatically to 160. Also, if you look back in prior post, I had a dramatic increase in my swim times of over two minutes when I wasn’t even thinking about that I had taken the dose and only later realize the correlation. So it’s not just subjective but some actual measurements.
-
-
John, I believe I remember that you are 74 or 75. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
Reading your description of your max achievable heart rates before and very shortly after ingesting fisetin, and knowing a bit about the pharmacology of fisetin, AND using my background of 40 yrs coaching endurance runners, and a decade as a USA triathlon coach and having run an endurance athlete coaching business for 15 yrs ... I have a few questions & comments.
A. In males in their mid 70s who exercise regularly, max heart rate is quite variable from person to person, ranging from about 155 to 170 or so, BUT it is also VERY consistent over many weeks in any one person unless affected by known issues like heat, dehydration, drugs, etc... So Why does your max vary by almost 20 % after taking your fisetin? I've witnessed that in coaching clients, but only with stimulants (which are both possibly dangerous, & also illegal in competition)
B. I'm concerned about whether or not the OTC fisetin you are taking might contain another substance responsible for your almost immediate change in performance. I've previously expressed my concern about taking fisetin from an industry that basically almost never provides verification thru assay of the content or quality of what they sell, AND what we almost all take regularly. Several university pharmacology studies of OTC supplements have shown wide variation in the actual content. In one study, the majority of the Walmart house brand supplements contained little or none of the compound listed on the label.
C. as I am sure you must know, one issue we all have to sort out in the quest for this component of the fountain of youth, is both the nocibo and the placibo effects. I've previously expressed in this blog site, that I'm dubious of folks reporting immediate effects of drugs like fisetin on aerobic performance, strength, etc... when the physiology of what's happening inside of us when we ingest fisetin should take at least some days, weeks or even months to become evident.
D. I'll site one well known example for our collective education of the fact that supplements we are all taking are not necessarily what they seem or are marketed to be. In the past Hammer Nutrition was producing an electrolyte supplement called Endurolytes that was extremely popular, especially in long distance triathlon were I raced and coached. I trained, recommended them to clients, and raced with them for about 15 yrs. At least 17 or18 yrs ago, as I recollect, two pro triathletes failed post race urine drug tests for illegal steroids. This resulted in two yr suspensions for them, thus ruining their careers as athletes. Extensive investigation revealed a number of production runs of Endurolytes (including some of ours) were in fact contaminated with an illegal androgenic steroid widely sold on the dark web to weightlifters.... The cause was Hammer nutrition outsourcing to a company that basically puts your drug or supplement into capsules fro a price. That company was not cleaning their capsule making machine between runs for different customers. Hammer Nutrition's runs were after a run for the steroid discovered in the investigation, thus the contamination. We, and our clients at the time all went rather faster, and were all just lucky that urine post race drug testing is (even today) almost never seen in amateur triathlon worldwide
This and other similar issues are why I posed the general question to this blog in the past.... Does anyone know a company selling fisetin w quality ensured by assay.... The answer so far has been "crickets"
Allen DeLaney
-
Allen DeLaney Thanks for the info and valid points you make on possibilities. I will rethink my use of this product and maybe try other brands to see if I get similar results.
John
-
Allen DeLaney John Mcgough This boost in performance from taking fisetin is not from tainted supplements, it is a known effect from taking senolytics like fisetin.
Many people people experience the same sort of boost and they are taking different brands, different batches over different timespans dating back 5 years and they all get the same thing, so it isn't from contamination. That would be mean ever single batch from every single manufacturer dating back for 5 years is contaminated with the same exact mystery stimulant? Also the 2 week duration also points to it is being impossible to be contamination. How could a stimulant taken orally last 2 weeks after you stop taking it? It couldn't.
The 2 week duration is a known effect of senolytics that takes 2-3 weeks to revert to SASP as mentioned in many senolytic studies. Heck, even the original post on this page from David C mentions the same effect lasts 3 weeks and his post is from 4 years ago. You can read the various reports of people taking fisetin on this forum and you can see it isnt always a boost in performance, it is a relief from their particular aging symptoms, arthritis, prostate, wrinkles and fine lines on their face. These are all related to shutting off SASP from a senolytic.
-
