Anyone actually experience marked increased energy from NMN?

It's been 2 years now - sublingual.

Nothing. I'm ready to throw it in the box with the resveratrol and rapamycin.

 

Please leave your experiences and types/doses as well as how you can differentiate if also using other 'compounds'.

Thank you

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  • It had no effect on me ...
    Maybe humans and mice are not exactly the same :) 

    Like 1
  • I’ve been taking 1g NMN for over a year and have experienced a remarkable reduction in chronic pain, increased stamina, profound second wind, massive mood improvement, improved mental alertness and memory, I don’t shiver in cold like I used to, my workouts are as intense as they were in my 20s, I’m walking with longer strides, and a bunch of other improvements.  Too many to list.  It’s been so profound that nobody would believe it if they didn’t know me before I started supplementing.   Whatever deficits I was suffering from prior to NMN, this supplement has reversed them. 

    Like 4
  • I take 1g daily together with 1g Resveratrol daily . I feel less tired and have much more endurance when doing sports. BUT since taking the 2 supplements I do have problems with an upset stomach.  Every day diarrhea and some things , like salad, is suddenly very hard to digest. I don’t know if its the NMN or the Resveratrol. Or none and just coincidence…. Anybody with similar side effects?

    Like 1
      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Sebastian I've never heard of Res causing an upset stomach but personally noticed it while using Rapa. Thanks for the update.

      Like
    • Sebastian Gastrointestinal discomfort has been reported.

       

      Negative Effects of Resveratrol | Livestrong.com

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      • Sebastian
      • Sebastian
      • 3 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Michael 

      I stopped NMN and Resveratrol and the symptoms disappeared. Started Resveratrol again. No symptoms. Started with half a dose NMN : No symptoms. Took 1g of NMN : Same symptoms as before . Upset stomach and diarrhea. So now I started to take the NMN AFTER breakfast (No fasting stomach) and the promblems seem to have disappeared. Now I don’t know how important it is to take the NMN on a fasting stomach but taking it after breakfast is working for me. Cheers 

      Like 1
      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Sebastian Thanks for sharing

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  • My wife and I recently started taking Elevant. We both feel like we have more energy, but at this point, not ruling out placebo effect.

    Like 1
  • Purity may be a factor.  Where do you purchase? 

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  • I have like many people a supplement stack.  I measure the effect particularly on my sleep and aim to change any one variable in isolation.

    I have just started with a new version of NMN.  I previously tried one which may be a placebo, but I do think it is having an effect.   I don't expect an overnight shift, but if it is increasing NAD+ levels that should be measurable.  For a week before that I was using NR (after the initial one I think was fraudulent).    

    I do think there is a shift. 

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  • I’ve been taking 1g NMN and 40g olive oil for 6 months now. No improvement in peak power or FTP (cycling); no improvement in resting HR or HRV; no improvement in free testosterone or cholesterol markers…but slight improvement in sleep duration and architecture (Oura ring)

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  • i am 70 and have been taking NMN over a year, it improves strength in my legs and improves skin texture, but i still feel tired and sleepy after lunch hours. Then i take Rapamycin recently (5mg/week), it works way better than NMN in boosting energy and alertness. Highly recommended for old folks! 

    Like 3
  • I've taken it in the past and the only noticeable result was that I became agitated. I would become borderline angry sometimes. I suppose there was some energy boosting but paired with the agitation it wasn't worth it. I wasn't taking that much probably only 1 gram a day at most.

    Like 1
    • Bart Balder  Thank you for reporting agitation when taking NMN. I will be observant, this since I am considering supplementing with NMN. I have had similar experiences with Q10 and Vitamin K1. They make me agitated and I want to avoid taking supplements that have that effect on me.

      Like 1
  • After taking NMN for a couple months, I have stopped for the following reasons.

    1.  There appears to be little evidence that it actually gets into your cells to any significant degree.

    2.  Comparing taking it to not taking it, I did not notice any difference.

    3.  Recent studies shows several brands of NMN, do actually contain much NMN.

    Like 3
      • JH
      • green_cloud
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Karl there are liposomal NR and liposomal NMN available in the market, you may try them if it works.

      Like 1
  • NR and NMN were two of the first supplents I tried. Didn't seem to do anything.

    But, just watched this and maybe see a clue as to why

    https://youtu.be/pj-CSSghDXo

    Like 2
  • Sublingual NMN doesn't seem to do anything for me.

    I could fool myself into thinking the 1g daily of oral capsules this past year have had some effect. I'm certainly performing very well athletically right now, but then I've fixed a few metabolic issues aside from the NMN topic.

    Much more convinced about the positive effects of Ca-AKG as a daily 300mg capsule improves my exercise resilience after 2-3 days and the effect disappears after 7 days without the supplement. I've tried that experiment twice, same results so AKG is a keeper (might up my dose to 900mg spread through the day). 

    Just to say because of the NAD+ salvage pathways vs de novo, I cycle a little what I take to boost it; sometimes 100mg Niacin instead of NMN, other days 500mg Nicotinamide etc. This is because e.g. excess Nicotinamide can block NAD+ production, or so I read... 

    Like 2
  • I’ve been taking the Ca-AKG for about 4 months. I haven’t noticed anything so far but I’m curious to see in my biological age drop like has been reported. 
    NMN was a game changer for me.  Gave me my life back.  

    Like 1
    • Jared has had no effect on my epigenetic age

      Like 1
    • Jared I notice Ca-AKG when I exercise. You call for the energy and it's there. In domestic life where I'm not needing the energy boost I don't notice much. First time I tried Creatine AKG I felt a boost too but I think I was probably just slightly deficient in creatine, there's no sense of energy boost at all when I eat grammes of that stuff.

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
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      Jack Black Creatine and injectable l-carnitine provide me with a very nice energy boost, esp when lifting.

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      • Jared
      • Jared77
      • 1 mth ago
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      • Reported - view

      Jack Black yeah I got that effect with NMN so perhaps the addition of akg isn’t as noticeable for me.  Mostly for me the amount of rest between sets is minimal now.  Similar to how I felt as a teenager.  

      Like 1
  • My 1st purchase from NMN came from a company in Australia.  After that I sourced it myself from a company in China.  I have the powder shipped direct to me. 
     

    Like 1
  • Initially I bought NMN Max which according to tests has no NMN in it.   Now I am taking some real NMN I have noticed a bit of an ache in my muscles that I think links to it, but I think my energy levels are higher anyway.

    I think the NAD depletion is primarily as a result of chronic inflammation and if you deal with the chronic inflammation then NAD levels come back up anyway, but I have no evidence base for this.

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    • John Hemming yes inflammation is raising CD38 levels which is destroying NAD+. The science isn't clear why but it could even be a defense mechanism by the body; high NAD+ levels in inflamed tissue might help cancer form. Tackling the inflammation for example by reducing unhealthy body fat would be a good way forward. You can also limit CD38 with apigenin rich foods like parsley.

      Like
  • My personal experience inclines me to the view that Melatonin assists in reducing inflammation.

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    • John Hemming Lot of research suggesting high dose melatonin helps fight cancer - which may be an inflammatory response. Recently upped my dosage to 120 mg a night. Really changed my deep sleep pattern. Will be interested in measuring inflammatory markers in January

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Paul Beauchemin You're taking 120 Milligrams of Melatonin a day?

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    • Michael The amount I take each night (it is almost invariably after midnight and before 8am) varies from 0 through to over 400mg.   Melatonin is a circadian hormone and it is important not to undermine the circadian cycle by taking it at the wrong times.

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      John Hemming What effect does it have on you during the day at the 200 mg + level? 

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    • Michael melatonin has a wide range of effects. Some are immediate and some happen over a longer period. The time it is taken is critically important as to the effect.  Two suppliers provide suppositories with 200mg or 400mg, but i dont know the bioavailability. My priority when i take melatonin is to ensure i get good enough sleep in order to be fully functional the next day. I normally achieve this.  It does affect different people in different ways. I will often take it more than once during the night.

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      John Hemming Last thing: Even at such a high relative amount, do you find you need to continue to increase the dose?

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    • Michael yes 60 before bed and another 60 when i wake in middle of night

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    • Paul Beauchemin that is fascinating. So 60 mg (not er I assume) before bed, and another 60mg when you wake up, as many of us do for a bathroom call. And that doesnt adversely affect your circadian rhythm? Sorry, I guess you already answered that.

      Since I have difficulty returning to sleep, or when I do it is not of sufficient duration, that sounds very promising. My fear was that a large middle night dose would give me a hangover, but that hasnt been a problem? Did you need to keep increasing your dosage in order to get back to sleep or because you wanted to maximize other benefits?

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    • Michael no the timing is key to this. My priority is good sleep, but i also take more for the side effects. I dont think taking it before sleep is helpful.  Sometimes I sleep well and take no melatonin. I am currently experimenting with some subtleties.

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Paul Beauchemin No negative effects of any kind? 

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    • Michael only effect is deep sleep went from 30 min per night to 3 hours

      feel great during the day

      Like 1
    • chuck stanley not for me. Seems I get a cortisol spike about half hour before I wake. One reason I've never needed coffee. No change at all with large dose melatonin.

      Was taking 120 before bed. One issue I have had these past few years is waking in middle of night and not being able to fall back asleep. Saw a suggestion on Longecity to take a dose when I woke in middle of night and so I split the dose and it has made a huge difference

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      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 3 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Paul Beauchemin 

           Are there any published studies indicating that taking Melatonin at the dose level of 120 mg or more is a good idea?  I thought that it was a hormone that was most effective at the ~1 mg dose level.  FYI, I take 3 mg of Life Extension's 6-hour time-release Melatonin at bedtime and sleep well through the night.

      Like 1
    • JGC The reason I take large amounts of melatonin is that I like the side effects.

      I did a video about Melatonin

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfEJcUDVUoo&t=153s

      It is the case, however, that there is published research that Melatonin can demethylate the epigenome. (for Radishes, but the chemicals are the same).

      I got into this because I took quite a bit of Melatonin for sleep and noticed I was growing dark hairs in places where I have  not had hair for a long time.  Only a few, but very gradually I am getting less bald mainly with the growth of a very fine layer or white hairs, but also some dark hairs.

      I was not ever particularly concerned about hair loss as my father went bald and I expected to do this.  However, I see this as a sign of an improvement in cellular health more generally and I would like my organs to function well.

      An interesting relevant point is high frequency hearing.  This is a specialised hair cell question that is easy to measure.  Sadly I did not measure this when I started.  However, I am 61 and can hear 14 kHz which is more of a 40s thing.

      Melatonin is, however, a circadian hormone.  I am of the view that I want to go to sleep on endogenous Melatonin so I only take Melatonin when I wake up in the night.  I don't think it is a good idea to take it before going to bed.

      More recently I have managed to kick the alcohol rebound into touch, but I need really to have more nights where I don't drink as ethanol is not good for health even if hedonistically it has merit.

      Like 1
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 3 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      John Hemming 

          Interesting. 

          I note the NIH says that the biovailability of Melatonin is about 15%, and it's solubility in water is about 0.1 mg/ml.  Therefore, there is not a strong reason to bother taking it sublingually, which will only give a bio-boost of 2 to 4.  My daily dose of 3 mg therefore delivers about 0.5 mg to the bloodstream, which is about right for a hormone.

          The Mayo Clinic says that the most common Melatonin side effects are headache, dizziness, nausea, and drowsiness (that's the point).  Less common side effects include short-lasting feelings of depression, mild tremor, mild anxiety, abdominal cramps, irritability, reduced alertness, confusion or disorientation, and abnormally low blood pressure (hypotension).  They also mention drug interactions with anticoagulants and anti-platelet drugs, anticonvulsants, contraceptive drugs, diabetes medications, and medications that suppress the immune system.

          Be careful.  I would think that taking a large dose like 120 mg per day might produce the chemical equivalent of jet lag, screwing up your circadian clock.

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    • JGC Without going into the question of how you come to your conclusion. I can say experimentally it is not true.  However, it will vary from person to person.

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    • JGC there are many studies that looked at high melatonin levels and cancer. I have PC and that is what interested me. The side effect of deep sleep is a pleasant surprise.

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    • JGC no, none of these side effects for me (except longer deep sleep). I monitor 30 biometrics daily so quite noticeable if something changes.

      I experimented with 1-10 mg for years and never improved my sleep until now.

      Like
      • RobH
      • RobH
      • 3 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      John Hemming 

      I've been taking 120 mg Melatonin now for about 2 months.  Started 4 months ago with 3, then 6, then 10, then 20, and so on until I reached 120.  The purpose is to control lutenizing hormone.  Jeff Bowles theorizes that excess lutenizing hormone causes Alzheimer's, and Melatonin can be used to reduce that excess.  See his ebook "Extreme Dose!  Melatonin The Miracle Anti-Aging hormone...", available in Kindle format at Amazon.

      A bit of background on how I got to this point. 14 years ago I started taking TA-65 to slow telemere shortening.  One of the effects is particularly vivid dreaming.  Then I found out that TA-65 is cycloastragenol, which is available at much lower price.  So I ordered some powdered cycloastragenol and put it into capsules.  But in order to get the same dreaming effect with my DIY capsules I had to take about 5 times as much as the TA-65, which essentially wiped out the price advantage.  Then I discovered enteric effect capsules.  Enteric effect capsules filled with cycloastragenol seemed to be equally potent to TA-65 as measured by my dream-o-meter.  So I've taken about 45 mg of cycloastragenol in enteric capsules for the past 12 years or so.  Last few months I've been taking TAM818 capsules instead of the cycloastragenol.  Note also that I've taken 50,000 IU vitamin D3 daily for the same 14 years.

      With the cycloastragenol my sleep pattern has been about 7-9 hours per night, with 1 or 2 wakenings.  Each wakening occurs with a dream, and resuming sleep is easy.

      Add the 120 mg of Melatonin before going to bed and the pattern is the same.  Maybe a little more dreaming.  I've skipped the Melatonin on several occasions and there was no change in my pattern.  Still go to sleep normally, wake several times, and go back to sleep immediately.  Wakening seems to occur on 1 1/2 hour boundaries, like maybe 4 1/2 hours, 6 hours, and wake up for the day at 7 1/2 or 9 hours.

      Haven't seen any bad side effects, and the potential of reducing Alzheimer's is good enough for me to continue.  I'm 77, male.  Women would take maybe 75 mg.
       

      Like 1
    • Paul Beauchemin There is a difficulty in that the side effects are difficult to spot as they occur gradually.  There is quite a bit of research, however, that justifies them.  The only one I can certainly say is melatonin is a reduction in gingivitis that occurs from taking it sublingually as this is an effect that can be seen by whether or not I take any melatonin that way. (and to some extent how much).   When I started growing hair where I had been bald for about 20 years I could not guarantee that this was melatonin, but there is research that points at this.  There are also issues about needing a combination of inputs to get an output.  If you are not getting the right K2 vitamins then maintaining bone structure will not be as easy.

      Like
    • RobH Without checking the research from memory I think there are a number of cognitive benefits from good sleep.  Which of those are really melatonin and which not affected is hard to determine.

      Like
      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      John Hemming Nice video

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    • Michael Thanks for that I only do videos where I think I have something to add to the debate rather than just a repetition of what someone else has said.

      Like 1
    • John Hemming excellent video. Several more reasons for me to take high doses in the papers cited.

      Reducing the cortisol wakening effect is one thing I've been searching for without success. I have a very sharp response half-hour before waking which spikes my glucose. Melatonin has no effect on this.

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    • Paul Beauchemin I also did a video about sleep hacks in which I talk about using Cox-1 inhibitors say about 1-2 hours before the CAR to minimise it or after it has happened to try to get back to sleep.  Asprin is the one with the most research, but Resveratrol is also a cox-1 inhibitor.

      I also have an interesting experiment going on which I want to patent to get a lot more control on the CAR and the interplay between sleep and waking.  I would like to patent this so that if the pharma companies take up the idea some money goes back into n==1 self hacking research more generally.   I cannot get the patent if I publish the idea (before applying for the patent) so i you would like to try it it would be off forum on a confidential basis.   Once the final patent is applied for then I will publish the details anyway. 

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    • John Hemming thanks, unfortunately, aspirin causes bleeding for me. Look forward to your experiment

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    • Paul Beauchemin you could try resveratrol, but that might also cause bleeding.

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      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      John Hemming 

          My conclusion (which is really a conjecture) was based on my attempt to understand the mechanism behind the sleep-inducing properties on Melatonin.   As I recall, when Melatonin first became available in the 1990s, it was characterized as a natural hormone that had been studied in the context of sleep regulation at oral dose levels of around 200-500 micrograms.

          Hormones attach to receptors on the system of cells that they are affecting.  If those receptors become over-saturated, that negatively affects the normal behavior of the system that the hormone is targeting.  It seems to me that that should happen when one takes 120 mg of Melatonin per day.  But, admittedly, that's just a conjecture.

      Like
    • JGC You are right in that receptors can get washed out.  However, Melatonin also acts in ways other than a hormone.  For sleep it emphasises the effect of GABA.

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      • Jared
      • Jared77
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      John Hemming that’s really interesting about the regrowth of pigmented hair.  We’ve seen other reports of similar from what was concluded to be a reduction of stress.  But I wonder whether the reestablishment of circadian order might be the key.   I suspect circadian disorder is a huge component of healthspan. It’s all just speculation on my part.  
       

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    • Jared It was not that many hairs, but it is a gradual process that does not appear to have halted yet.  My own hypothesis is that this arises probably at least in part from a demethylation process.

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      • Jared
      • Jared77
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      John Hemming yeah I would guess that whatever epigenetic change resulted in hair loss has been at least partially reversed. 

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    • Jared Hair is I think a particularly complex aspect of the body that is an indicator of health.   That is why I think high frequency hearing loss tests are a good test for general health (and very easy to do).  Sadly I have only tested this more recently some time after I started my protocol.

      Like
  • I have particularly tested Melatonin on Gingivitis.  I often take it sublingually and the days I don't take it my gums are more inflamed.  My dental hygienist was really impressed by the changes melatonin caused.

    Hence I think there is a general dynamic on inflammation.  My guess is that if you take it on a chronic basis it will gradually reduce inflammation more generally.  You probably do need to take something like 30mg a night.   

    However, you need to be really careful on how to take it.  I am doing quite a bit of experimentation on that at the moment.

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      • Jared
      • Jared77
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      John Hemming I’m a practicing tooth doctor and I’d agree that  melatonin, among almost anything you ingest, will impact the oral microbiome and contribute to general health. I suspect the benefits may at least partially be from some sort of bacterial metabolites that reduce inflammation in the gingiva.  Just like the gut, the oral microbiome also has a circadian cycle where the proportions of certain types of bacteria change throughout the day/night.  

      Like
      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Jared Quick question. What are your best recommendations if thinking about getting implants? Rapa, melatonin... etc...

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      • Jared
      • Jared77
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Michael the major issue with implants is bone health. Both systemic and microbial factors play a role.  Surprisingly Age doesn’t seem to be talked about as much of a risk factor as does bone quality and healing ability.   That being said Diabetes and perio disease (diseases of aging) greatly increase the risk of implant failure.  We consider these plus smoking to be the greatest risk factors.  
      I haven’t seen any data on melatonin or rapamycin in relation to implants (that doesn’t mean it’s not out there) but I would surmise that anything that restores youth to bone would be beneficial.  There is some literature on a significant benefit of resveratrol in perio disease which I think would also pertain to implants.  

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    • Jared A lot of body systems benefit from the availability of a number of molecules.  For example bones need vitamins D3 and K2 (mk4 and mk7) for handling calcium as well as melatonin to get the balance between osteoclasts and osteoblasts right.  I have seen suggestions that K2 mk4 is particularly helpful for teeth.   

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Jared I'm banking on the exogenous test I take to contribute toward bone health/strength. Having said that, even though I'm a fitness nut,  I still smoke and I know they'll likely fail until I stop. It's a very annoying situation at the moment.

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      • Jared
      • Jared77
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      John Hemming yes that’s true.  In fact it’s the fat soluble vitamins A, D, K and E that matter most for facial growth.  They are mostly found in properly raised animal fats.  It’s I think why there has never been a truly vegan society until now.   The ancients knew the importance of these things.  Fats were once covered above all. 
      A dentist by the name of Weston Price wrote about the importance of the fat soluble vitamins way back in the early 1900s.  He travelled the world analyzing the effects of modern vs ancient diets on facial growth.  He had the privilege of seeing 1st hand the changes in indigenous peoples as they converted from traditional to modern diets.  It’s an interesting read of anyone is interested.  

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      • Jared
      • Jared77
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Michael yes so smoking more so than anything else really changes the physiology of the mouth.  The biggest change I notice clinically is the decreased vascularity of the tissues.  The gums and bone don’t bleed well and I suspect this is the reason why implants fail.  Any type of trauma results in delayed and sometimes inadequate healing.  It’s also why perio disease is more prevalent in smokers.  

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Jared Have you ever seen any examples where they've taken with a continuing smoker?

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      • Jared
      • Jared77
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Michael yes they we can get them to integrate.   But we always tell the patient there’s a greater chance of failure and it may have to be removed and replaced.   

      Like
      • Dan Nave
      • Dan_Nave
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      John Hemming Reading your comments here about K2, which is extracted from natto, also the source of nattokinase (nattokinase decreases plasma levels of fibrinogen), reminded me of an article I saw recently regarding fibrinogen and gum and bone disease. 

      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/12/211223143106.htm

      Disarming a blood-clotting protein prevents gum disease in mice

      "Blocking function of a blood-clotting protein prevented bone loss from periodontal (gum) disease in mice, according to research led by scientists at the National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research (NIDCR), part of the National Institutes of Health. Drawing on animal and human data, the researchers found that buildup of the protein, called fibrin, triggers an overactive immune response that damages the gums and underlying bone. The study, which was published in Science, suggests that suppressing abnormal fibrin activity could hold promise for preventing or treating periodontal disease, as well as other inflammatory disorders marked by fibrin buildup, including arthritis and multiple sclerosis."

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    • Dan Nave Only Mk7 comes from Natto.  It is possible to supplement with MK4 and mk9 as well.  Certain foods  mainly hard cheese also have the longer chains of isoprenes, but that varies quite  bit.  I think the longest chain that is seen is MK-13.  However, I don't think there is good research on anything other than MK-4 and MK-7.

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      • Dan Nave
      • Dan_Nave
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      John Hemming Excuse me?  Natto....Nattokinase???... 


      "Nattokinase (NK), the most active ingredient of natto, possesses a variety of favourable cardiovascular effects and the consumption of Natto has been linked to a reduction in CVD mortality. Recent research has demonstrated that NK has potent fibrinolytic activity, antihypertensive, anti-atherosclerotic, and lipid-lowering, antiplatelet, and neuroprotective effects. "

      But, nevermind...

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    • Dan Nave I don't think Natto produces MK4, however. Obviously Natto has other things in it, but as far as the menaquinones go I think only mk7 comes from natto.  Things like hard cheese can produce mk4, 7 8 and 9 at times.  That depends upon the fermentation.

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  • In the absence of published studies, I personally am inclined to be wary of the higher doses. But based on these encouraging individual reports I think its worth experimenting with very modest amounts in the middle of the night. I've already tried 3mg without effect, so I'll bump it up a little and see if I might be one who benefits.

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