wrinkle reduction

has anyone noticed wrinkle reduction in systemic use of sirolimus?

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  • I hope someone answers this. I cannot as I have not yet tried sirolimus, although I take a combination rapalog. Apocynin didn't work though. Have you noticed wrinkle reduction, Curious (assuming you are on rapamycin)?

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  • I made a 25 molar rapamycin cream. Been using 3 months and see a big difference on the back of my 67 yo hands

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      • Moonlitnight
      • Medical Writer working on age reversal for over 20 yrs
      • Moonlitnight
      • 8 mths ago
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      Paul Beauchemin  Do you have a recipe? This sounds interesting. Did you make it for the skin, or were you also wanting absorption?

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    • Moonlitnight just used this molarity calculator

      https://www.omnicalculator.com/chemistry/Molarity

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      • curious
      • curious
      • 8 mths ago
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      Paul Beauchemin do you use the cream on your face and if so how is that working out for you?

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    • curious yes, face and back of hands

      back of hands has made amazing improvement. Used to pinch the skin for a few seconds and it would stay that way for many minutes. Now it snaps back in a few seconds.

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      • Moonlitnight
      • Medical Writer working on age reversal for over 20 yrs
      • Moonlitnight
      • 8 mths ago
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      Paul Beauchemin  Many thanks!

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      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 8 mths ago
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      Paul Beauchemin Impressive Paul, how long did you use the rapamycin on your hands before you noticed a difference?

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      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 8 mths ago
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      Paul Beauchemin I mixed 3mg in 4 ounces. I think it should be 25 micromolar based on Mark Thimineur post.

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    • Fred Cloud between two and three months I started to notice the change visibly.

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      • curious
      • curious
      • 8 mths ago
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      HPaul Beauchemin Thank you so much for replying.  Have you had the same success on face?   Does it just slow aging or does it reverse aging?  Thank you.

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    • curious hard to say about wrinkles

      with back of hand you can do a pinch test for elasticity. pinch the skin for 10 seconds and time how long it takes for skin to snap back to flat. For me skin would stay pinched for over 5 minutes previously. Now it relaxes to flat in about 15 seconds. So I can measure it. I can't measure wrinkles

      Who knows if it stops aging?

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    • Paul Beauchemin That alone is impressive.  I would not think any amount of moisturizer would have a similar effect. 

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 7 mths ago
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      Moonlitnight yes I have been using it for almost 6  months now...amazing results.... here is a post I did with a Doctor who gave me the formula... awesome stuff... Since this post things have continue to improve... it is quite amazing on my face and forhead and neck... the arms It is noticeable but more is needed..

      Hello Mark...I have some questions but wanted to tell you that I have learned alot about your wonderful recommendations for topical treatment of Sirolimus after experimenting with them myself. I feel they work far better then anything out there however unlike you  I was not totally blown away with my success. Then after rereading your post I realized that you did this 2 times a day most of the time. So after trying that it seemed to make things happen a bit quicker. With this treatment you need to have lots patience as it takes time ... I have been doing this since April.. but my under eyes, neck and forehead is 70 to 75% better and most of the time I only did once a day. Now I am trying to 2 times a day for at least 3 or 4 a week. I did add a retinal product which seemed to help as well. I put it on every night after waiting for bit. I did not try your product Adapolene as I called the company and they did not think that it worked at all for getting rid or wrinkles. However it is supposed to be much stronger then regular retinal products so maybe it would work the same way only better? . Also my creepy skin is maybe 25% better on my arms which is huge as I never thought it would work there. Hopefully it continues to improve. A I am wondering if I apply it in greater amounts than maybe it would be significantly above the threshold for optimal results. If you add too much Sirolimus then the results would be nulified.... What do you think about that. Wishing you well and thanks a bunch for sharing your experience with topical Sirolimus ...it is a huge gift you have shared with us!!!! 

      Reply  Like

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      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland Do you have any before after pictures?

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      • curious
      • curious
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland  in your opinion do you think the sirolimus is reversing your wrinkles or just slowing them down?

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      • curious
      • curious
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland also is the sirolimus helping with deep wrinkles or just fine lines?

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 7 mths ago
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      curious definitely it's getting rid of the wrinkles. Has been one study done on this it only does it get rid of the wrinkles and it also gets rid of the senolytic cells after about after about eight months. Research is pretty amazing actually and the doctor who turned me on to the right mixture has had amazing success with his clients. This is a new ball game I've tried all kinds of things to get rid of the sun damage this does a trick at a very cheap price. To quote the doctor he said he knows a bunch of plastic surgeons Who would be very nervous about how effective this stuff is

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 7 mths ago
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      Fred Cloud Yes.... that is it... the first three months go slowly but 2 times a day makes i faster and some retinol treatments work wonders.... see my post to Dr Mark... I have a bunch of them with Dr Mark... I just posted them there....

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      • curious
      • curious
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland WOW!   Thank you so much for your reply.  Is this the mixture of 3mg in 4oz that was mentioned in the post somewhere?  Just to let you know about the pictures from your cell phone you can send them to an email to yourself and then from the email post them with an attachment.  Again thank you for your reply.

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland Work on lower eye bags? 

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      • curious
      • curious
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland did you use the 70percent dmso with 20 aloe?

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 7 mths ago
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       curious  Ok I am taking Arbo Trex Dmso/Aloe Vera cream.... 70/30 with Lavender scent mixed DMSO containing 3 mgs of Sirolimus mixed in Liquid DMSO.  I use a mortar and pistol to grind down the pills and then put them in a text tube with DMSO to thoroughly mix them up. Mixture will be Cloudy with dissolved Sirolimus. Then I mix it into the 4 oz cream.... Then I apply topically to my skin. According to Dr Mark the study on this showed that after 8 month  it removed all the senolytic cells from the skin. I used it sometimes two times a day. And added in the past month or so a Retinol product both of which seemed to make the process go faster. It takes patience with this process but the price per month is only about 35 dollars a month. So it save thousands in plastic surgeon money plus you get rid of old cells. Check out my posts with Dr Mark for more details..... 

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 7 mths ago
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      Michael yes fairly well 70% better I am now using a topical retinol cream to enhance these amazing results even more

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland How long does the mixture you've described above last -using twice daily - before needing to make again? Just trying to determine how much you're using during application. Thanks again

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      • curious
      • curious
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland THANK YOU SO MUCH for clarifying.  Your AWSOME!!!

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      • curious
      • curious
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland just curious as to why you chose cream over gel as I have read gel penetrates better and gives greater results?

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 6 mths ago
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      curious I followed what someone else did... an MD Dr Mark.. he has got results so I followed that ...see my other posts in another forum... you will get alot more knowledge...

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      • curious
      • curious
      • 6 mths ago
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      garland THANK YOU.

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 6 mths ago
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      garland I'm curious. The Arbo Trex Dmso/Aloe Vera cream bottle says "sold as a solvent only". Have you had any averse reactions to using this -sans rapamycin? Do you put it under your eyes?

      Thank you!

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 6 mths ago
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      Michael 

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 6 mths ago
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      Michael well you can't put it in your eyes but underneath the eye seems to work fine sometimes it gets a little itchy but a lot of them do that

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 6 mths ago
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      Michael 

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 6 mths ago
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      Michael 

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 6 mths ago
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      Michael remember you can be allergic to anything so you always have to be careful when you first start out

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 6 mths ago
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      garland Thank you, We're you using that before adding rapa? If so, notice any positive effects from just that?

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    • garland Is this what you are using? I note it appears to be capable of taking the Rapamycin into the blood stream, do you think it too much? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006SW94SI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A4EGE1YRSP1KL&psc=1

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 4 mths ago
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      Ross Barker Yes I am currently using that cream since the one that i usually get is not available. It seems to working well.. ... here is the link to the one I have been using for the past 7 or 8 months... But the way i can now report that the siromilus topical can visually afffect crepy skin on the inner arms ... maybe to the tune of 40 or 50% improvement. My eyes are much better now that I stopped doing the Retinol treatments.... but I did them for around a month and a half and now my eyes are even better than when I started using it so it definatly helped improve the results of the Topical treatments of Sirolimus. Here is the Cream i used for many months 

       Here is the Cream i used for many months 

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  • does anyone have before and after pictures of face using sirolimus for wrinkle reduction that they could post?

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 7 mths ago
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      curious I have some pictures but I don't really know how to post them on here they're on my cell phone. Besides I am not done with the eight month program yet to clear out the damage and senolytic cells. You'll just have to trust it works I wouldn't be wasting my time posting this if it didn't

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      • curious
      • curious
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland Your Awesome!  Looking forward to your eight month results.  

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      • curious
      • curious
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland Awesome!  Looking forward to your results!  Thank you for sharing!!!

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  • Does anyone have the actual formula to make it? Would this be a good candidate? https://www.dropshipmd.com/buy/rapacan/ -

    Thank YOU!

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 7 mths ago
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      Michael 

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      • Chan
      • Chan.1
      • 7 mths ago
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      Michael I dunno how to make 'em but I'm good at talking.   a) Ask someone to send you soil sample from the island Rapa Nui and culture the bacteria in petri dishes.    b) Use the info on Wikipedia to synthesize it.   You can probably find the component enzymes and metabolites from a place that sell them.   You can get lab equipment from them too or some other place.   You may run into issues with them not selling you, similarly to restrictions put on Rapamycin itself.    And all this could be very expensive.

      c) Or if you're lucky you can find a plant, herb, or an animal that has it.

      After you get the pure goods, you may want to go full Breaking Bad.   It may just take a few razor blades (very cheap), and a glass top table or you could be at a lost of how to deliver it into the body effectively without being consumed by the liver or destroyed in the stomach.

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 7 mths ago
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      Michael it is a topical treatment.... you mix it .... check out my posts and you will find where i am talking with Dr Mark in another section on this forum.. check those posts out and you will learn how to mix it and what do do to make this work. it is all there.... This one works awesome but you need patience.. but there are hints how to enhance the effectiveness...

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland Thank you. Question: Are you concurrently doing the cream and taking in pill form, per a Dr. Green type of schedule? 

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 7 mths ago
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      Michael see above I just posted how to do it and mix it... 

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 7 mths ago
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      garland Thank you

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 6 mths ago
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      garland Just made it as outlined. Seems like an awful waste of rapa as when mixed in four ounces of Arbo Trex Dmso/Aloe Vera cream (an impossible feat if even distribution is the goal), there's likely to be many more days where application is completely devoid of actual rapa than not.

      After initial mix, I added and diluted one additional rapa tablet into the mix. 

      Mark Thimineur

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      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 6 mths ago
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      Michael So you mixed in 4mg into 4 ounces of cream? I know it seems like a weak formula but people are getting results, granted it takes 2-3 months though. Mark points out more is not better and he says just apply it twice a day for faster results. But something still bugs me about it though, it would seem to make more sense having a stronger formula that is applied less often rather than a weak formula more often. But for now, I am using a 3mg per 4 ounce solution and have been for two months.

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Fred Cloud I only ended up adding another mg as there was unintended loss after transferring the diluted rapa/dmso into the 4 ounces of Arbo Trex Dmso/Aloe Vera cream. The truth is I wasn't expecting it to arrive so quickly and in my excitement, began following your formula with a make-shift, bob-the-builder set-up. Thanks again for providing that formula above.

      I agree with you that less is more- initially for sure. But I also feel much faster results would be obtained with potentially 2 ounces of medium or... something. 

      I did want to ask if you've noticed any difference since you've begun applying it twice a day AND beyond this cream, are you also taking rapa in pill or sublingual, and if so, how much weekly?

       

      Thanks again!

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      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Michael I have been taking 3mg rapa weekly and using the topical rapa for 2 months and I havent noticed a difference yet in my skin. But I am not panicking yet because Paul Beauchemin mentioned he didnt notice changes until 3-4 months.

      Having said that, it has been life changing to me in terms of my health, I feel completely different and feel about 10 years younger in terms of inflammation and overall age of my body.

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
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      Fred Cloud Right on, brother!

       

      It's been a shitful year for me health-wise (outside of losing tons of weight and bodyfat via massive amounts of light, endurance exercise) with Carcinoma. I'm hoping for a like benefit in the skin arena. I'm giving it 3 months then going full bleph. 

       

      #blephbros

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 6 mths ago
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      Michael  not sure what you mean. I used the DMSO from Heiltropfen from Germany as my medium to absorb the Rapa. I put it into a test tube about one third full and then added the Rapa to it. Remember I first put the Rapa in a motor and pistol and thoroughly ground it up. Then when I put this mixture in the DMSO liquid in the test tube  I then shook it up thoroughly. DMSO is a great absorber of chemicals so it absorbed the Rapa as I could see the mixture get cloudy. I then poured this liquid cloudy mixture into a bowl of the 4 oz DMSO/ALOE cream to mix it up thoroughly. It mixed easily  so I do not feel that this mixture was haphazardly created. I used enough  liquid DMSO mixture to make sure that this product was easy to mix in the Cream DMSO/Aloe.... IS that what you did...

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      garland I appreciate your formula. I ordered the exact same items. I think I probably just didn't use enough Heiltropfen.  Thank you!

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 6 mths ago
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      Michael Yea I used alot of it so it would mix well....

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      • garland
      • garland
      • 6 mths ago
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      Michael You also have to ground up the pills very finely.... makes it easier for the DMSO to absorb it... meaning the liquid DMSO not the Cream..

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      garland Yes. I bought the mortar which made grinding it down extremely easy. I just didn't use enough liquid DMSO before adding to the cream. I appreciate you!

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 6 mths ago
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      Fred Cloud Any update on noticeable differences? Thank you.

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 6 mths ago
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      garland Any update on efectiveness? Thank you

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      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 6 mths ago
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      Michael month 3 and not much change, but I did not use dmso. I may add dmso to the mix, it may be needed for deeper dermal layer penetration. Did you start on rapamycin oral or topical?

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Fred Cloud Thank you, bro.  I started on the cream - nothing yet. I started 3mg a week of the pill and believe some nasty lung / flem stuff happened from the pill so, probably will discontinue use. On a different note I started up the Kaufman protocol - every stinking pill. Loads of energy!

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    • Michael I followed exactly the recipe posted by Mark Thimineur, but I made a double quantity using three 2mg Sirolimus tablets that I ground up with mortar and pestle. The dissolved sirolimus mixed easily but I think a little more DMSO liquid would have been even better. I took baseline measurement with the skin fold test on one hand and took photos of my cheeks and forehead as well as the sagging skin on my upper arms. I've been applying twice a day for 10 days. I stopped all oral sirolimus since it seemed to interfere with healing of a slow healing wound. I will document and post progress, if any, after a few months.

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 5 mths ago
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      chuck stanley Thank you, Sir! I look forward to seeing your results.

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 5 mths ago
      • 1
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      Fred Cloud My update on this so far is nothing positive - potentially worse as I'm applying in under eye area. Stopped taking rapa - just using rapa cream. 

      I've maintained an excellent diet. OMAD. Cut back on Whiskey (Painful). Practically zero carbs and sweets. Back to at least 1000 calories a day combination treadmill/ walking with light weights. Focusing more on core: heavier-side squats.

      Looks more and more likely a bleph is in my immediate future. 

      Like 1
  • This is Exciting, I'm ordering some powder off Alibaba and going to try mixing up a Skin cream for my wife, she loves that kind of stuff, might even try some for myself, I saw some info somewhere that NAC N-Acetyl-Cysteine was a big help also for Skin, I thought I would add it, does anybody here have any feeling for that stuff?
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  • Sorry. I confused Fred with Garland. lol Oh, what a day!

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  • I can't play chess to save my life today, either.

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  • I just ran across this article by the rapamycin guru blagosklonny trying to patent topical rapa back in 2007, clearly ahead of his time, its an interesting read so I thought I would pass it on.

     

    Rapamycin for the aging skin

    Mikhail V. Blagosklonny

    In 2007, I filed a patent application claiming that topical rapamycin (e.g., in the form of a cream or ointment) https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2008022256A2/en could be used to prevent and treat skin aging. Potential indications include various types of age-related spots, wrinkles, photo-aged skin, and other age-related skin conditions. The patent was not granted, nor were cosmetic companies interested in pursuing this avenue of product development. Cell senescence has traditionally been seen as growth arrest. It seemed weird that rapamycin, a drug that inhibits growth, could inhibit cellular senescence. Nonetheless, it works because, actually, senescence is a continuation of growth when true growth is impossible [1]; in other words, senescence is “twisted” growth [2]. In an exciting ‘twist’, these claims were recently confirmed in a clinical trial by Chung et al. [3], which I will discuss later.

    Even in 2007, the idea of using rapamycin topically was not novel [4,5]. (What was novel in my application was the idea of using topical rapamycin as an anti-aging drug for the aging skin [1]). By now, there have been dozens of papers describing the therapeutic use of rapamycin (Sirolimus) in patients with such skin diseases as lymphatic malformations, vascular anomalies, Facial Angiofibroma and psoriasis [613]. These diseases were treated in children and young adults. In one study, topical rapamycin at low doses (0.003-0.015%) decreased facial angiofibromas in young adults. There was no systemic absorption of rapamycin (blood levels were <1.0 ng/mL) [13].

    Returning to cellular senescence, signaling in the mTOR (Target of Rapamycin) pathway drives growth of cellular mass and sustains cell cycle progression. Cells grow and divide, balancing growth. But when the cell cycle is suddenly blocked by p16 or p21, mTOR drives growth-like conversion from reversible arrest (quiescence) to senescence [2,14]. In short, mTOR drives geroconversion [15]. Rapamycin and its analogs, as well as pan-mTOR inhibitors, suppress geroconversion, thereby maintaining cells in a young healthy state. Moreover, these drugs prevent loss of cells’ proliferative potential, which is considered a strict definition of senescence [2,15]. Geroconversion in stem cells leads to stem cells depletion [16,17]. mTOR-driven hypertrophy can be followed by atrophy at the end stages. Cellular hyperfunction eventually leads to cellular exhaustion and secondary functional decline [1].

    Suppression of cellular senescence by rapamycin was demonstrated in numerous studies both in vivo and in vitro [1830] and see for references [15]. In vitro, rapamycin slows conversion to senescence by approximately 3-fold [14]; it does not suppress it completely. Notably in that regard, in the most rapamycin-responsive mouse model of mitochondrial disease, rapamycin extends the maximum life span by nearly 3-fold [31].

    Just as in vitro geroconversion is a continuation of growth, organismal aging is an unintended and harmful continuation of developmental growth post-development [1,32]. These messy quasi-programs inevitably lead to age-related diseases, which include conditions ranging from obesity, cancer and Alzheimer’s disease to skin spots, wrinkles and seborrheic keratoses. mTOR drives geroconversion, increasing cellular functionality (e.g., the senescence-associated secretory phenotype). It is noteworthy that this increase in cellular activity can cause secondary exhaustion, tissue damage and decreased of organ function; for example, hypertrophy may be followed by atrophy at later stages. In other words, age-related diseases and conditions initially caused by mTOR-driven hyperfunction eventually lead to organ damage and functional decline [1,33]. Similar quasi-programs were described even in the worm [3436]. In sum, aging is an unintentional and harmful continuation of developmental programs, driven in part by mTOR. To be clear, mTOR activity does not need to increase with age, just keeping it at a level as high as during development is sufficient to cause disease. Despite its simplicity, this model accurately predicts that rapamycin will extend life and delay diseases. Indeed, since initial publications [18,3739], numerous studies have confirmed that rapamycin extends lifespan in mice (see for references [4044]).

    In that context, it is predictable that rapamycin would slow skin aging. However, unless rapamycin reverses skin aging, not merely slow it, the effect would be difficult to document. This is because a patient cannot serve as a self-control (placebo control) unless rapamycin reverses aging, which would be easy to detect. This difficulty can be overcome, however, by comparing an untreated hand with a hand treated with topically applied rapamycin in the same subject. This is the approach taken by Chung et al. in their study, which found that treatment with rapamycin-containing cream improved skin photoaging and skin tone, decreased fine wrinkles, increased dermal volume, and reduced sagging of the skin [3]. These differences between treated and untreated hands were detectable after 4 months of the treatment [3]. Regrettably, the study excluded patients with diabetes, although the therapeutic effect would probably be more significant in diabetic patients, given that mTOR is overactivated in that disease. In addition, it is unclear whether rapamycin reversed skin aging and improved the skin or merely slowed the progression of skin aging. In the latter scenario, the difference between the treated and untreated hands is due to the progression of aging in the untreated hands. In combination with placebo/treatment, comparisons of specific abnormalities before and after treatment is also needed. Despite these open questions the study is remarkable [3].

    As a cosmetic, rapamycin-containing cream may be applied to selected areas, like the hands and face, especially skin affected by age-related spots and pathologies. It should not be applied to the entire skin surface of the body. To affect the entire skin surface, systemic use of rapamycin would likely be a better option, as many manifestations of skin aging are probably due to systemic organismal aging and disease; skin aging is not an exclusively local process. And most importantly, systemic rapamycin use increases lifespan and decreases disease. This by itself is so important that solely topical use of rapamycin may seem insufficient. On the other hand, topical application of any drug is safer than systemic administration. Still, the best strategy in some cases may be simultaneous systemic and topical use of rapamycin in selected areas of the skin, especially areas where there are signs of aging marks. However, given that most doctors are fearful of systemic treatment with rapamycin [45], I expect that it will be topical use of rapamycin that becomes widespread, if regulatory hurdles can be overcome. Whether rapamycin cream should be a prescription treatment or an over-the-counter cosmetic will likely be a matter of debate.

    Like 1
  • And here's a link to Rapamycin for Aging Skin article (plus I attached the pdf version):

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6949048/

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      David H garland Fred Cloud What do I need to know about Rapacan vis-à-vis it's place in the rapamycin hierarchy?  Specifically, 1mg tablets. Thank you!

      Like
  • I  Just  mixed this up,  near  as I  could measure  I  used  .0002 G  of Rapamycin  powder with  48 Grams of Cream,  Please could  somebody   comment on  my  Math?   it  seems such  a  little  bit, if  I  would  take 6mg/week internally,  how could  2mg topically over  3  months   be  sufficient  for  any  real benefit?   Did  I  miss something? I'm  tempted to  increase the  dose  10x  for  a start? Paul,  please where did  you  find  the original  concentration?  @Garland I  can't  find  your conversation  with  this  Dr  Mark

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      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      @Ross Barker  Your math is off

      48 grams equals 1.69315 ounces, not 4 ounces

      .0002g is .2mg not 2mg.

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    • Fred Cloud The  first  was  a  typo,  the  bottle states  1.7  oz 48  Grams,  likewise I  added  too  many  "0"s I  Better  edit  my  original  post  OOOO,  it won't allow  me  to  Edit  it, I  added .002 G  Rapa powder to  48  G of Cream or  1.7oz,  I  can't  find  where I  said  4 oz. 

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      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Ross Barker You didnt say 4 ounces. I thought you were using Dr Mark Thimineur 25 micromolar formula of 3mg in 4 ounces cream that he discussed. Where did you get 1.7 ounce formula?

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    • Fred Cloud I took  garland s  interpretation  above  for 4 oz of cream  and  cut it in  half  as I  only had  a 1.7  oz tub  of cream, Look  back  to  2 months ago, he  referenced Dr  Mark who's posts  I cannot find.

      I  did find   Mikhail V. Blagosklonny Study which  calls for  Much much more  Rapa  (.72  Gram) and  this  Seems  so  little bit I  put in  this  cream,  I'm  wondering  if  this  Dr Mark  formula  is perhaps  erroring on  the  side  of either  caution,  economy  or both. 

      I bought 12 Grams  of  Rapa for  this  and used .002 Gram,  it seems so  slight,  I  guess I'm  looking  for somebody  to  agree with  me so I  can  put  more  in..  

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      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 4 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Ross Barker I thought the same thing that the formula was light but Dr Mark quoted a study that showed hair loss at concentrations higher than 17 micromolar. You want autophagy in the skin but you dont want to inhibit mtor too much as there wont be growth and your hair will die and create skin ulcers. Read his posts.

       

      From Dr. Mark

      "Just wanted to comment on the topical cream. The concentration of 20mg in 4 ounces will be around 1.8 micro molar (approximate). The recent study of topical rapamycin which found significant benefit for senescent clearing and improved appearance etc used a 0.1 micromolar concentration (approximate). Studies on hair (fur) growth in mice using topical found effectiveness at 0.1 - 1.7 micromolar concentrations. At concentrations above this there was mention of non-healing wounds. Just wanted you to be aware that there may be some unwanted effects at higher concentrations. Reading through the literature I believe what you want to do is influence autophagy more so than inhibit growth. In cell cultures they use about 0.2 micromolar concentrations to influence autophagy. I've been using this concentration (approximate) for a topical (2mg in 4 Oz) for a while and see some marked improvements and feel safe in doing so. You may be fine with the 10X higher concentration but sometimes to much may not be as good. "

      https://forum.age-reversal.net/t/63j272?r=k9vdnn

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    • Fred Cloud Well, I  did a  little more research with  this Video, an Australian study doing research  on  Children they used a 0.1%  Mixture  and a 1%  Mixture the later  being almost exactly  what  I mixed  this morning, it  was half way  between Mikhail's Weak and strong mix, so I will  keep  it  and mix  a  weak  one  as  well

      https://youtu.be/Q7Li0A6KPYg

      Does  anybody know what this  Cream  is Recommended  above?

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  • garland

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  • From  Mikhail V. Blagosklonny Study

    Even in 2007, the idea of using rapamycin topically was not novel [4,5]. (What was novel in my application was the idea of using topical rapamycin as an anti-aging drug for the aging skin [1]). By now, there have been dozens of papers describing the therapeutic use of rapamycin (Sirolimus) in patients with such skin diseases as lymphatic malformations, vascular anomalies, Facial Angiofibroma and psoriasis [613]. These diseases were treated in children and young adults. In one study, topical rapamycin at low doses (0.003-0.015%) decreased facial angiofibromas in young adults. There was no systemic absorption of rapamycin (blood levels were <1.0 ng/mL) [13].

     

    This works  out  to  a maximum of .72G  of Rapa or 720 mg for the  small 1.7oz 48G bottle  of Cream  I  bought

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  • put 5 IUs of bleach on your face then report back 

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