Recent Plasma-Replacement Results
Two recent results have been published that are worth reporting here and are recommended for careful reading.
The first of these is a paper by Dr. Harold Katcher, Dr. Steve Horvath, and others reporting on a development originated by Nugenics Research of Mumbai, India. The work was done on by applying a component of young plasma (given the name Elixir) extracted from the blood of young rats. This Elixir was administered to aging rats, and measurements of the Horvarth methylation bio-age clock were done before and after the treatment. The before and after clocks indicated that in blood, heart, and liver tissues the bio-age was reduced by a factor of two. Less pronounced but significant clock-reduction was observed in the hypothalamus.
The second paper is the work of Prof. Irina Conboy's group at UC Berkeley. They examined the question of whether young-blood-produced tissue regeneration comes from the presence of beneficial components in the young blood or from the absence or dilution of harmful components in the old blood. To do this, they replaced the plasma in the blood of aging mice with saline solution containing 5% purified albumin. Unfortunately, they did not do bio-clock measurement on the results, but they noted beneficial effects to muscle, heart, and nerve tissues equal-to or exceeding those of young-old plasma exchange. The implication is that the benefits of young blood may lie in the dilution of harmful components present in old blood.
These are both preliminary studies using animal models, but their implications for us aging humans who could use some rejuvenation are very interesting. The Conboy results are particularly of interest because immediate application to humans would probably not encounter FDA roadblocks. (FDA Experts: please comment!)
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The closest you can replicate this now without a doc and machines would be to donate blood a couple of times a year and take gdf11 at home. The next level would be to get a doc with a plasmapheresis machine and have him replace some of your plasma and buy some plasma from the ambrosia company. Speaking of, I wonder if these plasma doctors like ambrosia will offer some sort of plasma exchange as an extra option.
Perhaps some docs will offer this as a standalone service much like the chelation docs back in the day would have rooms full of people in the IV room. The closest you can get to that now is In germany, they have lots of plasmapheresis treatment centers where they will filter your blood and should be able to replicate the conboy effect. Much like chelation requires frequent treatments to maintain, I wonder how often you would have to do dilute your plasma to maintain results?
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Fred Cloud Has anyone been to the Young Blood Institute? They offer Therapeutic Plasma Exchange.
Lots of great info on their site
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Fred Cloud
In the case of the Conboy treatment, I don't understand why you suggest that one might need to "buy some plasma from the ambrosia company". Googleing "plasmapharesis", I get this: "Plasmapheresis is a process in which the liquid part of the blood, or plasma, is separated from the blood cells. Typically, the plasma is replaced with another solution such as saline or albumin, or the plasma is treated and then returned to your body." That's precisely what the Conboy group is doing with rats, replacing old the plasma in their blood with saline plus 5% albumin.
My point is that there needs to be a trial in which this is done with old humans, with before-and-after Horvath methylation tests done to determine if there is any reduction in bio-age indicating rejuvenation. Of course at least one MD needs to be involved, but since only saline and albumin are used, there should be no FDA issues.
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Fred Cloud and JGC--got something going here. Thank you both very much!!!!
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JGC I suggested getting plasma from ambrosia to replicate both sides of parabiosis because they both have therapeutic effect, taking away the bad stuff (conboy) and adding young factors (Katcher, ambrosia, young plasma)
But you are correct if you just want to solely replicate the conboy approach of taking away or diluting bad stuff and you only wanted half the benefit of parabiosis then you would only need the plasmapheresis.
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Fred Cloud
I think Harold Katcher's Elixir is rather different from (and more effective than) what you would get from Ambrosia, but since the Elixir contents are proprietary, I don't really know.
You suggested that Conboy plasma dilution might have to be done repeatedly. However, if it really resets the Horvath clock to a younger age, that would be a permanent reset (since it's embedded in the epigenome) and would not require regular treatments (except to get later additional resets). That's why I think it's important to do the before-and-after Horvath methylation measurements.
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JGC I agree Elixir would be better, but it isnt available. I was strictly speaking of what was available right now to try to get this treatment or close to it.
I dont think the conboys are reversing horvath with their therapy, frankly because it cant, there is nothing in their therapy, they arent giving anything, so what would be rewinding the clock? So I don't think it is permanent just like infusing young plasma from ambrosia isnt permanent and has to be readministered. They are diluting signaling molecules in the blood that tell the body to act old which is mimicking a young person blood but since the cells are still old the old signaling molecules will build back up. I think only elixir is winding back the horvath clock and then telling the body to express the pattern of young blood which should make conboy therapy unnecessary but it would still be a good idea to dilute the plasma at the same time you take elixir because who knows how long they persist and could start to rapidly re-age the newly unaged rewound cells. Katcher mentioned this. -
Fred Cloud
Does Conboy plasma dilution reset the Horvath clock? That's an experimental question, and someone needs to do the experiment. I have asked Irina Conboy by email why they didn't do Horvath clock measurements on their rats, but no replies yet. If they have frozen blood samples left over from the experiment, they could still do those Horvath tests.
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JGC Yes, ultimately a test would answer the question whether it does or doesnt.
But what does it matter? it doesnt have to reset the clock to be therapeutic, right?
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Fred Cloud
In my opinion, it matters a lot. Most of the available anti-aging therapeutics (e.g., D+Q, Fisetin, NR, etc.) fix some problems but have no effect on the epigenetic clock. The only treatments of which I am aware that have some effect on the clock are: (1) The Yamanaka Factors (which lethally set the clock to zero), (2) The Turn Bio treatment (which won't be available for 5-10 years), (3) Steve Perry's GDF11 treatment (which he claims moves back the Horvath clock by a few years), and (4) Harold Katchner's Elixir (which has large Horvath-clock reset effects on mice and is "upstream" of GDF11).
In the long run, we a reliable way to first clear away the senescent cells (Oisin Bio) and then reset the Horvath epigenetic clocks of all the remaining cells of the body (preferably to an age of about 25 years.)
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JGC Sure, ideally you want to reset the horvath back to age 25, agreed. But are you saying you won't do the conboy therapy or any therapy unless it is proven to reverse the clock even though it has shown to be therapeutic and extends life?
Perhaps I am not following you and we are talking about two different things as you didnt say why it matters a lot?
I say in the meantime follow the research and use what we have access to right now until we have the holy grail.
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Fred Cloud
It matters a lot to know if the Conboy plasma-dilution treatment resets the epigenetic clock, because it would be the most readily-accessible technique that would do that.
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JGC Still not sure I am following you on this. Are you saying you it is a determining factor for you whether or not to do the therapy based on if it rewinds the clock or not rather than if it is therapeutic or not? plasma dilution is essentially available now and is shown to be therapeutic, thats good enough for me, if it resets the clock that is a bonus and is not a deal breaker if it doesnt. Are you saying it is a deal breaker for you if it doesnt?
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Fred Cloud
No, what I'm saying is that there is a definite possibility that the Conboy plasma dilution, like Katcher's Elixir, resets the Horvath clock. If it does, that's really important. If it doesn't, it is still an interesting treatment worth considering.
However, I'd like to have some reports of human results from using it before jumping in myself, since Conboy's work was done on rats. Also, although plasmapharesis is a standard and available treatment for immunological diseases like lupus, I'd like to know how much such a treatment costs and how hard it is to persuade an MD to sign you up for it as a treatment for aging.
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JGC I want more than anything that you and Staffan shave 20 years off your life because you guys deserve it for your participation, and because it'd be a confirmation that anti-aging is reality. Please keep at it.
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JGC and Staffan,
You guys please try bitter melon. Get fresh fruits from Asian store and juice them then leave in the fridge and drink a few sips after meal. I believe this will help you a lot. I believe that because I think disease fighting is a major contributor to aging. If you can boost your innate immunity with bitter melon, your adaptive immunity has a chance to recover and you'll be younger in the long run. I formed this opinion because I thought about rapamycin, how it suppresses innate immunity and allows the body to recover, becoming younger. Please watch the video.
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JGC The best approach to get it is to find a doctor that is doing it and offering therapeutic pheresis rather than trying to persuade an MD to prescribe it which will most likely be a lesson in futility. Dr Cook in the bay area is on the cutting edge and will accommodate and there are others you just have to seek them out.
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Chan Do you have science or studies or data or just beliefs?
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JGC Blood sugar spikes prevent phagocytosis (a component of innate immunity) and bitter melon suppresses sugar spikes. Preventing phagocytosis may trigger other infections and may trigger adaptive immunity (which involves manufacturing of sugar based antibodies). This activity requires stem cells/B-cells and is "energy" intensive.
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Fred Cloud what specific you have issue with so I can best answer you?
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Chan All studies showing antiaging effects of bitter melon
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Fred Cloud this is not a specific question so I don't feel like answering you. The logic is sugar causes activation of the immune system, which means the body is forced to fight defense/offense war against phathogens, leaving no or little energy to grow younger. I wouldn't doubt the potency of bitter melon to suppress sugar though. A high enough dose could cause permanent sleep, it's a very good sleeping pill because by suppressing blood sugar, the body discovers it has no energy and "shuts down" by going to sleep.
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Fred Cloud Do you have a link to get in touch with Dr. Cook? I would like to contact him.
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Dorian Gray https://www.bioresetmedical.com/dr-matthew-cook/
He did a podcast with Ben Greenfield and he talks about the "The Full Body Blood Change Reboot"
https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/lifestyle-podcasts/cbd-thc/
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JGC Companies will pay you for your plasma. For example, this one in San Diego will pay you: https://octapharmaplasma.com/donor/plasma-donation-faq
However, they may take the good stuff and put in the aging stuff back into your blood, which will increase your Horvath clock. Their FAQ says, "Plasma is the liquid part of your blood that carries red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets. It’s made mostly of water and proteins. Because it has so much protein in it, plasma is used to make life-saving medicines that treat patients who have experienced trauma, have bleeding disorders, have trouble fighting infections because of immune diseases, and more."
I am thinking it is not the protein, red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets that is slowing down the epigenetic clock. It has to be other factors in the blood, specifically signalling molecules that needs to be removed.
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