Recent Plasma-Replacement Results
Two recent results have been published that are worth reporting here and are recommended for careful reading.
The first of these is a paper by Dr. Harold Katcher, Dr. Steve Horvath, and others reporting on a development originated by Nugenics Research of Mumbai, India. The work was done on by applying a component of young plasma (given the name Elixir) extracted from the blood of young rats. This Elixir was administered to aging rats, and measurements of the Horvarth methylation bio-age clock were done before and after the treatment. The before and after clocks indicated that in blood, heart, and liver tissues the bio-age was reduced by a factor of two. Less pronounced but significant clock-reduction was observed in the hypothalamus.
The second paper is the work of Prof. Irina Conboy's group at UC Berkeley. They examined the question of whether young-blood-produced tissue regeneration comes from the presence of beneficial components in the young blood or from the absence or dilution of harmful components in the old blood. To do this, they replaced the plasma in the blood of aging mice with saline solution containing 5% purified albumin. Unfortunately, they did not do bio-clock measurement on the results, but they noted beneficial effects to muscle, heart, and nerve tissues equal-to or exceeding those of young-old plasma exchange. The implication is that the benefits of young blood may lie in the dilution of harmful components present in old blood.
These are both preliminary studies using animal models, but their implications for us aging humans who could use some rejuvenation are very interesting. The Conboy results are particularly of interest because immediate application to humans would probably not encounter FDA roadblocks. (FDA Experts: please comment!)
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Wonder if donating plasma would have similar effect
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Eurosymposium on Healthy Ageing - 1 October 2020
Irina talks about it from 31:35
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Российские биохакеры повторили эксперимент по разведению плазмы у человека https://rlegroup.net/2020/12/06/realnyj-biohaking-chast-pervaja-plazmaferez/
Translated table <min_opt, max_opt, before, after, delta> from the russian text.
After = 3 days after neutral plasma exchange.
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denis whats this crazy spam you are posting
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Фред Облако
why did you decide so? p.s. I translate via google translator. English is not my native
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denis It just didnt come through clearly.
Is one of these persons you that did this plasma dilution?
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Фред Облако
No, but I actively follow this topic and the article seemed interesting to share
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@staffan_olsson
The Conboys replaced old plasma with saline at 5% Albumin. They concluded that it was the removal of plasma that was responible for the effect. How do we know that it was not the 5% Albumin? Here is the reasoning:
a) Albumin of 5% is near optimum. It is very likely that the old mice had a level much lower than that!b) Several clocks (i.e. aging.ai), show that the level of Albumin is strongly inversele=y corelated with age.
So it would not be far fetched to assume that it was the 5% Albumin in saline that caused the improvements, by increasing the average content of albumin in the blood after treatment.
In my opinion, they should test for the albumin level before treatment, and inject saline with a content of albumin equal to the albumin level before treatment. Or, they could have some control old mice that they injected plain albumin, to make sure that it was not albumin that caused the effects.
On the other hand, Harold Katcher's experiment was robust, and the effects stunning. I can't wait to see how the elixir treatment translates to human beings. If it does even to some extent, I think we can forget about all other rejuvenation treatments . There will be no need for any of them for the next few decades.
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Zisos Katsiapis
In my opinion, the serious deficiency in the Conboys' plasma dilution work is that they didn't do Horvath methylation clock measurements on their mice before and after. Therefore, we don't know if the observed effect included epigenetic reprogramming or not. They did do a protein assay that provided some suggestion of epigenetic modification, but that doesn't allow any direct comparison. Harold Katcher's work, on the other hand, demonstrates dramatic epigenetic reprogramming of their rats.
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JGC
I agree with that. It was mentioned before, so I did not want to repeat. However, controlling for Albumin is also necessary, to insure that it is not Albumin that causes the "benefits". Assuming that the Conboys controlled for Albumin, and the Horvath methylation clock measurements showed some benefit, even small, it would be great news. Because it can be done today, without FDA approval. Of course, combination of the two (Conboys' and Katcher's) would probably be even better. But first, the Conboys must be more convincing.
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Plasma Donation Info
As noted in prior posts I've restarted blood donations every 2 months, and just gave my 5th donation. I also received feedback from the donor center about plasma donation as they are currently looking for donors. They use a centrifugal machine to separate blood cells and platelets and send those back. The volume removed depends on certain parameters like weight and BMI, but appears to average a bit over 600 mls, Plasma comprises about 55% of whole blood volume and is present at approx. 43 ml per Kg of body weight. For me that would be a plasma volume of about 3300 mls. So one donation would offload about 20% of plasma. Enough to make a difference in the signaling milieu? Don't know. In addition, plasma only donation can be a done every 4 weeks, so in 8 weeks 3 donations are possible. This would reach the 50% threshold which mimics the Conboy mouse study. It's a free process which provides a benefit to people in need, and may help remove, at least temporarily, a fraction of proteins which promote aging through their signaling (i.e dial down the negative signals a bit). Side effects are potentially worse than normal blood donation, so if you do this educate yourself.
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Peter I donate blood every 8 weeks. According to Conboy (private communication), this is at most 10% of their mice work signal. Hey, every little bit helps!
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MAC what is your ferritin level?
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Fluctuates, but these are the results over the last 18 months when I did test for it:
34, 20, 45, 15, 37, 23 My last transferrin was 21%. As I've posted I believe elsewhere, iron dumping is one aspect of my anti-aging protocol.
"Ferritin is not a good indicator of iron stores. Serum ferritin is a test that was formerly thought to be directly related to the amount of tissue ferritin, and thus, something that could be used to measure the amount of stored iron, which was believed to always be stored bound to ferritin. Today, modern research has shown that actually, serum ferritin levels are not related to tissue ferritin levels, and that iron is only stored bound to ferritin in tissues that produce ferritin, like the liver, and is stored in free molecule form in other tissues, like cardiac muscle, that do not produce ferritin. Transferrin saturation is the indicator of excess iron storage, and needs to be below 40% in everyone, more especially those individuals who have HH. Why? Simple. When transferrin saturation is over 40%, which indicates that iron storage sites around the body have reached their normal capacity, two things happen. One, is the liver releases the HFE protein (starting when %TS is over 20%), which is supposed to bind with receptors in other cells, stimulating the release of hepcidin, which in turn binds with receptors in intestinal cells, halting the absorption and release into the blood stream of iron molecules. The second one is the reason that 40% was chosen as the threshold - at 40%, there's not enough transferrin to bind with all of the iron being secreted to the bloodstream by the intestinal cells, causing free iron molecules to circulate in the bloodstream, getting deposited wherever they can, where they act as free radicals, causing damage."
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MAC that’s some pretty interesting research. I am in a heriditary hemochromatosis group and nobody knows anything about this. The universal advice all patients are given is for the doc to drain the patient below 50 ferritin and that’s it. They look at saturation but the docs don’t really know what to do with it. I manage my ferritin through blood purging by regularly. Generally I have found that I feel the best between 25-35 saturation, I feel worse any higher or lower. I also feel very tried under 35 ferritin or above 100. So I target it to how I feel. I emailed Dorian Gray a few years ago and he was very helpful and generous with his time and insight into managing ferritin and has a lot of experience with it. Maybe he can weigh in on this.
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Fred Cloud I am homozygous H63D, mild HH. Picked up some iron knowledge on an iron forum. I never paid attention to iron until I found out I was apoe 3/4, including my HH status, and thereafter went full on looking for all manner of anti-aging interventions. Stumbled upon iron dumping first, and the add on blood rejuvenation benefits recently. The max I can donate freely is every 8 weeks, and I have had no ill effects in terms of both how I feel or any biomarkers going wonky. They tell me 8 weeks is plenty sufficient time for males to replenish red blood cells. Of course they always do a finger prick test before releasing me to donate. They always tell me to not exert myself for 24 hours after donation, but I do my normal daily workout that same afternoon. Very few doctors, including hematologists, understand HH/ferritin/Saturation. Mind sharing your HH genotype and iron journey?
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Anti-aging testing conference - ILA-HEALES - 11 February 2021
You can watch the session of Irina Conboy, Vera Gorbunova, Harold Katcher and Hanadie Yousef from here which are about blood proteins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4Ryx4dG-QU
Also, could you give some feedback please, did you observe any benefit after blood or plasma donations? I mean cholesterol, blood pressure, liver and so on...
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am 72 yo gave plasma 8 times in 23 days at biolife . can give up to 98 yo with Dr. approval. significant improvement in physical functions
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dale koester Thats great Dale.
Any changes you notice in how you feel or bloodwork?
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Fred Cloud seem to feel better. can run faster. lift more weight, things in general seem to be little better. Blood test was not much different. all good exceopt testosterone and estridial
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dale koester how did you get them to do donations 8 times in such short time?
Im suppriced your not tired after all that loss? -
dale koester Are you still doing plasma donations? Now that some time has passed have there been any noticeable changes? Or changes in blood work? I've done 800 mls donations a week apart and 500 ml before and after for well over 50% of plasma in 4 weeks. Haven't made the trip back to CSL Plasma yet, in part because there is a long line of younger people there for the money they get paid.
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Twice a week at Biolife, facilities all over US, maybe a little tired. Not bad
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Peter dale koester
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dale koester results were temporary sorry
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