Recent Plasma-Replacement Results

Larry They replace your plasma with young plasma which has to drive the price up quite a bit for this procedure. I wonder if they will offer the plasma dilution, it sure would be cheaper. It may not fit with their study interests though.

Fred Cloud I heard it cost $50k which believe it or not is way less than a hospital would charge. 

Larry $50k !! I posted earlier about them paying plasma donors about $50

Thats quite a markup, what is that, 100,000% ROI?

Fred Cloud That's cheap for  Heterochronic Plasma Exchange. Here is a quote from a study: "Using the above data, the average short term cost for utilizing plasma exchange for MGC was $101,140 per patient compared to IVIG which accrued an average cost per patient of $78,814".

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291869/#:~:text=Using%20the%20above%20data%2C%20the,cost%20per%20patient%20of%20%2478%2C814.

Larry That must mean plasma is expensive to buy, maybe the plasma brokers are the ones making all the money. I know Ambrosia doctor quoted me $8,000 for a liter or two of plasma. But the game changer here is that you dont have to buy plasma you can just dilute it and get therapeutic benefits.

Hi Peter  ,

Why are you donating blood and risking yourself by supplementing Fe? Why don't you donate 2-3 times plasma instead of 6 times blood?

Levon 

My ferritin levels tend to be low, < 30 ng/ml.   Papers on phlebotomy show major reduction in irons stores with just one donation.   Low ferritin can be associated with neurological issues in some people, as I learned a few years ago.   My intension is to keep it low but not too low.   My iron supplement is low dose.  I'll be testing along the way.   As for 6 times, I'm just shooting for 50% replacement to follow the Conboy study.   This is a bit arbitrary and I could stop before then depending on what I see in blood work. That's why I do a CBC and CMP panels before every cycle.   CMP monitors liver and kidney function.  CBC gives data on immune cells.   Not aware of any particular issues beyond iron for long term blood donations.

Peter I gave a pint of blood and my ferritin levels went from 250 ng/mL to 53 ng/mL

Peter You should keep a bottle of antibiotics on hand.  Blood donations lower your natural killer cells to fight infections.  Might be a good idea to get your flu shot and supplement with garlic since it has antiviral properties.

See article: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8488538/

Jim N Thanks for the heads up on this.  

Jim N That big drop is consistent with the literature.   53 ng/ml is a much better value that 250 ng/ml, much closer to optimum.

Peter 

So did you observe any benefit after 2 donations?

Levon No.  Nothing physical.  But didn't expect that right away.   Conboy mentions positive effects on liver, muscle, and hippocampal tissues.   Her paper also shows a lot of proteomic changes, which I haven't sorted out yet. I emailed and asked about obvious external changes in test animals, but got no answer.  I will be looking at a lot of blood markers closely though, especially towards the end of the process in about 6 months.   Full hormone panels as well.  I have all my hair (at 66 yo) but am very grey, so will be looking for changes in hair and skin.   If I notice anything  I'll post.  

Levon This is my own observation, buy my acne seemed to heal faster with 1 blood donation lower my irons levels from 250 ng/ml to 53 mg/ml.  Dunno.

Peter Is this plasmapheresis machine they are using on you use gravity or membrane?

There are two types of plasmapheresis – membrane and gravitational, membrane will not work, it removes the wrong particles, and among the particles it brings back are possible aging factors. The gravitational one removes the aging factors.

https://www.lifespan.io/news/biohackers-perform-first-plasma-dilution-experiment-on-humans/

Fred Cloud Thanks for pointing this out.  To date I've given whole blood, but have questions in to donation center about their platelet and plasma donation process.   Will also try to sort out the details including the issue you bring up. I do not know, but have asked, what the donation volume is.  At this point all I know is that their apheresis process is used for platelets  or plasma, and that plasma can be donated every 4 weeks through the approx. 90 minute apheresis process.  I am 66 with common A+ blood, so not sure if platelets or plasma from me is even desirable from their perspective.   The medical community should probably wake up to the fact that donor age may be a critical factor for their patients.  In any case, I consider the 50% volume mark somewhat arbitrary, but large enough that an effect should be seen - might compensate for smaller number of test animals. Big unknowns, to me, are how long any positive effect lasts, especially for smaller volume donations every 4 to 8 weeks.   The "negative" factors probably grow back in at different rates, which would be good know as this would guide any ongoing protocol.  The positive protein, Albumin, has a half life of about 3 weeks for example, so I'm not concerned about it dropping to low levels over time.   

Jim N Thanks for suggestion, but the relatively small volume of blood loss suggest NK cell number might go down by about 8% for a short period.   These cells have a half-life of about 2 weeks so will bounce back quickly.   I already eat a lot of garlic, and do a lot more for immune protection, including maintaining a health microbiome which is vital.  The later is why I would only take antibiotics if there's a clear need.   

Levon Since my original post I've learned that my blood bank solicits plasma donations where they remove 600 to 800 mls of plasma and replace with saline.   This can be done every month.  Each donation removes about 20% of plasma.  So 3 donations can be done over a 2 months span and will replace 50% of plasma.   Plasma Of course much we don't know, like what the critical threshold is for one donation to have cascading benefits, how long the benefits last, etc.  

Peter You never answered the question. Is it gravity or membrane?

Fred Cloud Fred Cloud Separation of components is done by sedimentation or centrifuge.  No mention of membrane or any kind of filtration.

Peter oh good. I would really hate to see you go through this and not get results. A guy in my GDF11 group did this last year. I should check back in with him to see if he got results.