How to increase the bioavailability of Fisetin
I'm preparing to do a Fisetin senolytic experiment, but I've read on the article from Mayo Clinic ( https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S2352396418303736 ) that the administration mode was done through a mix of phosal and other stuff :
100 mg/kg of fisetin in 60% Phosal 50 PG:30% PEG400:10% ethanol
So the bioavailability of the Fisetin should be a key step for the treatment. I am looking for some information on how to increase the Fisetin bioavailability. Does anyone know of some methods to do this ?
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Hello,
I introduce myself briefly I am 31 years old, I take Trans-reveratrol since January 1st, 2013.
I wanted to do a cure of FISETIN notament for the anti-inflammatory properties but also for the elimination of senescent cells.
After many readings of studies and testimonials I bought a pot of Fisetin 100Mmg Dr. TheBest and 1 pot of fisetin 100mg. SWANSON. In order to be sure to assimilate the fisetin I took the product empty stomach and during a meal, morning and evening and sometimes during the day (I tried everything). I tested the fisetin 500mg waking with Vitamin C + OMega 3 + 30ML of walnut oil. Regarding the results undeniably they exist !!
I had lower back pain and shoulder pain because of bodybuilding they totally disappeared, I consume more energy and during my treatment that lasted 5 days or I took on average between 500 and 800mg a day, I found a real sensation of "cold" in my body is very impressive. I consume a better mood and a boost of energy, more than with the precursor use of Nad +.
Senescent cells accumulate every 60 months. So I will do a cure again but this time I will combine with bioperine. I want to clarify that I was using FISETIN always in combination with 250mg of Trans-resveratrol. The first 2 days of the cure I was a bit amorphous.
I want you to avoid the effects of FISETIN + BIOPERINE.Do not hesitate if you have questions.
Take Care
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Regarding the availability of fisetin in oil, see my recent posts on the "Fiestin to Clear Senescent Cells" section. I can say with certainty that fisetin in coconut oil (MCT) has powerful and rapid effects on the body!
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Repeating *sublingual* advantages and questions ... greatly increases most substances enter direct into bloodstream minus digestive deterioration. Please correct me? Have been seeking more info. Thanks.
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DIANE B Sure, sublingual administration avoids the liver's first pass. The basics seems to support that fisetin could be taken sublingually; the molecular weight is less than 500 (286) and it has a logp value of less than 5 (2.5).
I can't seem to find the ph, which you'd want to know in case it's harmful to tooth enamel. Even if the ph is fine, I expect sublingual fisetin would still stain your teeth yellow, and really it tastes terrible, so I'm not planning on doing it.
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Ajax thank you kindly!
Am still wondering how much to down size by half maybe? And whether to mix w bit of coconut or olive oil (i dont understand your science details apologies if they answered that!)
BTW i find it basically tasteless! Just a trifle chalky. Definitely conserves money one would think.
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DIANE B I have no idea how much to downsize by either, since it depends on how much fisetin is absorbed by the liver, and how much fisetin can be absorbed sublingually.
I am by no means an expert here, but the logp value shows how hydrophillic ("water loving") or hydrophobic ("water hating") a substance is. In this case, the logp value shows fisetin should be soluble "enough" in saliva for sublingual delivery. My understanding is the fact that fisetin is more fat soluble than water soluble would be a good thing for sublingual delivery. So that all makes me think you don't need a carrier (oil) for sublingual delivery.
It's standard supplement industry practice to say a product is 100% pure, but put fillers into a capsule. Mostly this is done to ensure a full looking capsule for a certain mg amount of product. These fillers won't dissolve sublingually, so you may wind up with a bunch of wet powder under your tongue, even if the fisetin does get absorbed sublingually.
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Ajax hi again thanks for reply about absorption. I've been reading thru this new-to-me forum and sorry for redundancy! We all have Soo much information and Soo many questions to share. Great group. I think I will be hanging out awhile and much appreciate your feedback. 🍓🍓🍓🍓🍓
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DIANE B you're welcome!
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Fisetin is known to dissolve best in oils. The question is how much of the oil/fisetin mixture transfers through the intestinal walls into the blood stream? Another question is what benefit does Quercetin provide when taken with Fisetin. The combination seemed to be beneficial when tests were being conducted with Dasitanib but now that Fisetin has been discovered to be more effective, I don't see any benefit in adding Quercetin. I anyone aware of any reason for using the two in combinaton?
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I found this report from 2016. Some are obviously trying to increase bioavailability through nanoencapsulation. I hope someone soon has an efficient route for placing fisetin in the bloodstream.
Some have proposed using suppositories. Suppositories can be ok if the only purpose is to do intermittent senolytic therapy. But for daily use I prefer the oral route. I have not heard about any experiments with homemade fisetin-suppositories. I guess we have to see if anyone is up to it.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10717544.2016.1245366
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One suggestion is to add lecithin to the dose of Fisetin. Lecithin is well known as an emulsifier so it should help mix Fisetin with water and increase absorption. I tried it with my last course of senolytic meds using approximately 2 grams of Lecithin with each 2 gram dose of Fisetin. I also take Echinacea as an immune system stimulant on the assumption that Fisetin exposes senescent cells but it's the macroglia that actually remove those cells. It seem logical that temporarily stimulating the immune system to produce more macroglia and increase their activity level would make better use of the Fisetin while it's effect lasts.
Has anyone seen / heard of a simple test to determine what concentration or percentage of senescent cells are present in a body or some indicator of how much have been removed? Without some metric to measure the level of senescent cells in a living body it's hard to judge how effective any senolytic treatment is.
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RAW
You asked "Has anyone seen / heard of a simple test to determine what concentration or percentage of senescent cells are present in a body or some indicator of how much have been removed?". The answer is no.
It is possible to take a biopsy (i.e., a slice of flesh) and do an assay of the degree of senescence in that sample by looking for the presence of beta Galactosidase (a senescent cell marker) using staining and microscopy. This is not something for self-experimenters. There have been some consideration of doing a count of senescent cells of a particular cell-type in a blood sample, but this raises the question of how closely senescence in that cell type is correlated with senescence in other parts of the body. The in vitro cell culture experiment indicate that different cell types are affected differently by Fisetin and D+Q.
The bottom line is that we are "flying blind" in doing self-experiment senolytic sessions with Fisetin and/or D+Q, because we cannot measure how much senescent cell clearance is being achieved in the different cells of the body. We are stuck with subjective measures of whether we feel better or experience fewer age-related aches and pains after a senolytic session. I can testify that I do feel better and have fewer body aches.
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JGC
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Hello - I am new to this group. I am interested in trying fisetin in acute doses, as described by Yousufzadeh et al eBioMed 2016 and in the clinical by these same investigators at Mayo Clinic.
Has anyone had the fisetin they obtain from supplements manufacturers (Swanson, Vitaspace, Dr. Best, etc.) tested for purity? I am asking because I bought 25 g of what is advertised as bulk 98% fisetin for $50 from age.less on eBay. The fisetin is made in China, but the merchant is in Philadelphia and sounded pretty convincing. Eyballing it, it is a pale yellow powder that looks EXACTLY the same as bulk fisetin from Selleck Chemicals, a reputable chemical company cited that Yousufzadeh et al. used for their mouse study, and likely, for their clinical study as well. BUT, the Selleck fisetin sells for ~$1,242 at 97.5% purity. I cannot fathom why this difference, unless the affordable sources of fisetin are not what they claim to be... Anyone know where I can get the age.less product analyzed? - I hesitate to ask Selleck whether they would analyze it for me...
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RRC
I don't have a lab to recommend, but any lab that can determine the molecular weight of a sample, e.g., by mass spectrometry/chromatography, should do. Fisetin has a molecular weight of 286.2363 g/mole. Any contaminants will show up in the mass spectrum with different molecular weights.
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JGC Thanks for your reply and the information. I am still hoping that someone can recommend a reputable lab that can do the analysis...
I have requested an HPLC data sheet from Selleck, who should have it as a vendor selling to scientific institutions, but it would probably be overoptimistic to expect a merchant selling the product on eBay, for what is comparatively pennies, to have a purity analysis on hand.
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RRC
Two years ago Johnny Adams arranged for Echelon Biosciences to do a molecular weight check on generic Lucidas Dasatinib supplied by Lucius Pharmaceuticals that I had bought from BonHoa Pharmacy in New Delhi, India. Perhaps you could use them. I don't know how much Johnny paid for the analysis, but it did show that my Dasatinib was the real thing and was quite pure. The contact information was:
Mark Nelson, PhD
Echelon Biosciences Inc
675 Arapeen Drive, Suite 302
Salt Lake City, UT 84108
mnelson@frontiersci.com
Cell: 774-571-8607
Office: 801-588-0455 ex 308 -
RRC You can contact some of these:
https://www.metlabs.com/industries/consumer-products/
https://atslab.com/consumer-product-testing/product-testing-labs/
https://www.emsl.com/Services.aspx?action=list&ServiceCategoryID=13
https://www.eurofins.com/consumer-product-testing/
https://www.avomeen.com/scientific-applications/product-performance-testing/
https://www.cpsc.gov/cgi-bin/labsearch/
https://www.amalabs.com/company/
https://www.snlabs.com/index.html
https://www.valisure.com/analysis/#analysis-services (analytical pharmacy)
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There is a new product from Life Extension called Bio-Fisetin, which they claim on the site store has an increased bioavailability. Has anyone had experience with this brand ?
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JPA
The last senolytic session that my wife and I did, last September, was done with Life Extension's new Bio-Fisetin. We assumed that their x25 bio-enhancement claim was valid, and we took the equivalent of 4 g/day for three days. With previous senolytic sessions I have observed effects (mild fever on day 1, renewed energy after day 2, mild vertigo at night, ...). With the LE product, I didn't notice anything. Therefore, I'm a bit skeptical of their claim of x25 bio-enhancement. I think for our next session I will either double the dose of Bio-Fisetin or go back to taking 4 g/day of standard Fisetin powder in warm olive oil.
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I wonder if anyone has thoughts or experience on effects of senolytc treatment (fisetin) on concurrent immunization. I have been planning a round of acute Fisetin tx (25 mg/kg/day in olive oil x 3 days). I got my 1st COVID shot a week ago, next one is due in 2 weeks. Any thoughts whether fisetin dosing at this time might interfere with (or enhance???) acquisition of immunity?
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RRC sooo - decided to postpone the fisetin treatment until a few weeks after the 2nd COVID vaccine dose. There are research reports that fisetin acts as an anti-inflammatory (immunosuppressant?) and enhances regulatory T cells. Better not take the risk that it might diminish the effectiveness of the vaccine.
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RRC Perhaps it would enhance T-cell immunity to Covid then. Now we delve into the "more research needed" category. Probably best to let your body handle it in natural state given the uncertainty.
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New to here. I have a basal cell carcinoma on my nose that will be removed in about a month. Meanwhile I have been taking oral fisetin intermittantly. The carcinoma looked like a small volcano about 1/16" high. It was cracked open at the top and would bleed very easily. Now it is close to flat, has closed up and no longer bleeds. Amazing stuff.
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Ajax Regarding the taste of fisetin when placed sublingually, if you take a miracle fruit tablet first and let it dissolve under the tongue, it seems to dial down the fisetin taste. I tried it just now and plan to continue it daily (500 mg/day) for the next few months to see if there's any effect.
