Rapamycin Cost

Brin Chikovski great report! thanks a ton. actually somewhat good news for rapa

Brin Chikovski Thank you so much for the information regarding your tests results. I am having sirolimus from another chinese lab, Wuhan Hengheda Pharm Co., Ltd. by means of Alibaba. Naturally, always wondered about my powder purity and risky residues. Your data looks, for me at least, as a clue for what they are cooking for us in China.

Engadin Zermatt I suspect that most of the people ordering product from unknown companies in China have never done business in china. The supply chain - especially for chemicals and compounds like this - is extremely opaque and untrustworthy. The company that you have provided a name for has a hotmail account as their primary email account. When is the last time you saw a major company in any other part of the world using a hotmail account as their primary email account? https://www.hhdpharm.com. You guys really are placing far too much trust in suppliers who probably don't care if you live, or die, or get seriously injured by contaminants (and you have no legal recourse against them whatever happens). You really need to test product coming out of china. What the lab tests I've seen on the Indian Pharma company versions of rapamycin suggest that - at least in those batches - the product was reasonably good. You really should be much more skeptical of the Chinese products.

Brin Chikovski Not that I am one but bodybuilders today buy EVERYTHING (gh, test, ancillaries) from China, Turkey everywhere ... yet most are extremely meticulous when it comes to having samples sent out for testing. Many are not as dumb as one might think. One lab in particular with a very good reputation is https://www.janoshik.com/. He may be able to test many of the things discussed on this forum. Email him at info AT janoshik.com

Brin Chikovski You are right in that I have never done business in China but my brother-in-law and some friends have and it depends, somehow, on luck. OTOH I wasn't aware of hotmails' email cause I always chat with them in a very quick and easy manner by means of Alibaba. Having their own web site, it is just lazyness not to have a more 'serious' or 'business friendly' @hhdpharm.com one. I was in my way to trying to check the quality of their product these days, but I guess I'll think it twice and start looking for an indian provider from now on. Thanks for your comments.

Brin Chikovski The only problem with getting stuff from India is that a significant portion of the raw materials used by Indian pharmaceutical companies comes from China.

Charles Richardson Yes - the raw materials (Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients) coming out of china are a concern - but as with most industries, there are 3 or 4 main companies holding most of the market share in this area, who in turn provide them to the top market share holders / pharma companies in India.  We have data on the final drugs coming out of India (via individual tests and reports from independent labs and groups like Valisure).  I'm sure that the major pharma companies have some reasonable quality control processes in place for inbound APIs from the major producers.  But - obviously the actual quality control processes in place in each of the Indian generic manufacturers will vary by company, by person in charge of the QC process in each company, and the specific pressures being put on these groups depending upon profit / speed / production in each company, as well as pure water and other resources being used for input in the process.  The Katherine Eban book suggests that things can break down at any point in this process.  And the concern for people buying chemicals from truly opaque middlemen in China (likely just trading companies who care a lot more about profit than any concern for the ultimate consumer) are truly pushing the risk profile.  To me its crazy - the cost from India for rapamycin is about $20 to $30/month for major brands that "seem" to be mostly ok from the Valisure tests - and people here, to save $20/month - are risking their lives by buying from completely unknown middleman in China, with absolutely no knowledge about what they are getting and no validation of purity or contaminants...  its like the difference between getting a drug from the pharmacy and from a dealer on the street... crazy stuff.

Brin Chikovski Hey Brin! Thanks for sharing that link - and also sharing the domain as well... wow... that's an interesting looking website with lots of information. Have bookmarked it to read more later!

Brin Chikovski I agree with that assessment.

chuck stanley I 'm waiting for Chris to receive It. I'm open to participate in analysis as well. juan3z@yahoo.es Spain

Juan Martínez Moreno Juan - getting there! I post here documentation of the process so that those who consider ordering get a feeling for how it all works. Yesterday Ms Rene from Zhejiang Mulinpharma sent me pictures of my package contents and promised to send it express. see attached. I also attach the COA for the sirolimus order. I paid 190USD for 10g Sirolimus (did not go with the much cheaper quote from another company)

One potential learning here: After a bit of superficial DD on the company it is unlikely they are a manufacturer of pharmaceuticals (they are in the steel business). They are a most likely just a broker buying from some unknown manufacturer which also makes the COA a bit suspicious. Not sure what the implications are - just go for the best quote b/c there may be very few producers and everone is a broker of the same substance? chuck stanley any thoughts on this?      

Chris Los Thanks to all the super helpful info from Chuck, Van and others here, I also bought a jewelers scale (similar model to the one that Van posted), 20mg to 50g standard weights to calibrate the scale, various metal spatulas and a soft rubber spatula, dark glass storage containers, a glass mortar and pestle, red food dye and lactose....(I used to work as a research lab scientist in cancer research so this is bringing me back to the "lab"....:-)) 

On the testing front: I will do a 50Euro blood test (at peak blood levels, 1-2 h after taking a 3mg dose - that will be my starting dose). On the question of raw material purity and quantity I am still traing to find a toxicology lab that is willing to do it - one already turned me down. Will keep you posted!     

Chris Los sorry forgot to upload the other picture with the batch numbers for sirolimus 10g and dasatinib 1g in my earlier message.

Chris Los Thanks for your explanations. 190 USD is a good price!

Chris Los This is the problem with china - so many middle men, that you don't actually have any clue who the actual manufacturer is, so its impossible to get any feel for the actual quality of the product.  And you never know if the middleman is changing his suppliers - so if you or someone else orders one time, there is no guarantee that when you or someone else ordered again that you're actually getting the product from the same manufacturer with the same quality controls... you can't trust anything in China.  

Brin Chikovski 

Thanks for your warnings. In the end, I guess using a lab to test a sample is about the best we can do, and as you point out, that’s not completely reliable either. Until then, its more a leap of faith.

I do feel less suspicious when I am dealing with foreign companies that other people have used without issues. I think we have all been exposed to so many scams over the years that we have developed a sense of when things just don’t smell right. One misstep raises a red flag. The fact that Zhejiang Multinpharma has a steel business and a “brother company” pharmaceutical business doesn’t bother me.

Everything so far seems very professional and correct.  

chuck stanley Agree - no complaints about Zhejiang Multinpharma generally. But: I asked for a COA for my dasatinib order and posed the question about whether they are a manufacturer to Rene. This is what she replied: "No worry, I will send you the coa after get home. we shipped many to other customers .  our company is a group did chemical and steel ,states ... chemical website : www.multinpharma.com"

not a very convincing answer - I think they are mainly a trading company and don't actually manufacture anything...:-) if they carefully pick their suppliers- no prob. I suggest we all make an effort to find a reliable manufacturer instead... Btw, I also think they ripped me off with the dasatinib order - 150USD for 1g...:-)

Chris Los My preference has been and continues to be for an Indian pharmacy for all the reasons that Brin articulated so well, but I had trouble finding powders in India, which led me to China . There is such a wealth of knowledge and experience on this forum, perhaps I should have asked.

I would love to find a credible powder manufacturer in India that produces not just pharmaceuticals but also the pricey over the counter products. 

Ozone8 Perhaps of interest:  

How to buy rapamycin, what is the cost:

https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-buy-rapamycin-what-is-the-cost-pt2/68

How people are importing rapamycin:

https://www.rapamycin.news/t/importing-rapamycin-part-2/82

Brin Chikovski 

Which brand to buy?

I found several Indian companies that produce rapamycin – sirolimus. The most well-known names are Zydos Cadila and Biocon.  But there are a few other large pharmaceutical companies that seem to be in this for the long run. I am reluctant to buy from small companies in China when it is possible to buy from well-known large pharmaceutical companies India.

https://www.zyduscadila.com/    - Siromus

https://www.biocon.com/  - Rapacan

https://www.panaceabiotec.com/en  – Siropan

https://www.emcure.com/about-us-overview/ -  Rocas

https://www.alniche.com/  -  Rapasim

I foudna few others companies but they seemed to be smaller than the ones above.

Staffan Olsson great list! I currently consume a China powder but may decide to just use it for creams - less risk. can I order directly from these Indian manufacturing companies or do I need to go through middlemen/brokers that do the shipping and handle payments? thanks!