Rapamycin Cost

chuck stanley VPN did the trick, except when I go to Wuhan Hengheda Pharm Co., Ltd. I can't find they have sirolimus. Maybe don't stock it anymore. I'd be so happy to buy from Tailor Made Compounding, but d@mn gatekeepers.

Liam_Cohen AlldayChemist has Sirolimus in stock. But only in tablet form, unfortunately.

Liam_Cohen 

chuck stanley Liam_Cohen I reached out to my sales person at Wuhan Hengheda Pharma. Indeed, it is the platform that is restricting access. Whether this is the CPC trying to punish Mr. Ma, or responding to Western government pressure is unclear. I strongly suspect the latter. The company is not “allowed” to list it. In any event, they still have Rapamycin. I ordered another 10g at $42 US per gram. It was quite unwieldy but it was possible and it will be shipped within 15 days. As always, it’s possible it will be apprehended by my government... because they need to protect their Big Pharma constituents. I fear the window is closing. I’ll let you know if this order makes it through. Hopefully the shelf-life in a sealed bag in my freezer will be significantly longer than the stated 2 years. You might also search the misspelled “sirolimusa”... the Chinese sellers, ever resourceful, trying workarounds. I get a couple of suppliers with this approach. 

Van beautiful photo.Liam_Cohen yes, it seems that all patented Pharma products are blocked... Canada too. This strongly suggests that the CPC is responding to western government pressure/concerns. So much for “free enterprise”😜

Liam_Cohen  I played around a bit more. It seems that the Alibaba blockade is pretty specific for rapamycin. Other anti-neoplastics and immune modulators are still up (at least with searches from Canada). I know one person who had a shipment of rapa apprehended and tested (pure rapamycin)... and Health Canada was involved. Shipped by WHP... which may be why they in particular do not come up. You can try initiating a discussion with any of their sales people... I bet they will sell and ship. As before, I'm sure many suppliers are solid... but I don't know them...

Steve Roedde Thanks for all the leg work. Looks like I need to DM with the company.

Pretty funny that that's one way to have your order assayed.

Liam_Cohen Yes. Pretty hilarious. Unfortunately he got the assay... but not the product:-). Apparently it was US pressure that shut things down on AliBaba. Ever the bastion of free enterprise... unless.... 

Steve Roedde US Congress absolutely believes in free enterprise... whichever lobbyist pays the most wins.

Anyway, I didn't want to jinx myself so didn't want to say anything until my order arrived, which it did today... 10 g from Wuhan Hengheda via Alibaba. I used the built-in VPN with Opera browser. I had to contact them via the alibaba msg service and asked for it directly by name.

I ordered on May 10, it shipped on May 17, arrived in US May 24, and then sat in the USPS for "approval." I contacted the sales rep I was working with on June 2 asking if something was wrong and should I do anything. They said, this is normal, just be patient.

So there you go. Hope this helps folks.

Liam_Cohen , thanks for the update. Clearly the WHP is the least expensive source out there! Indeed, accurate comments about who is the horse, and who is the rider when it comes to Pharma policy. Are you going to have any assay done (although via blood levels (x2 and spectroscopy (x one by Canada customs), I am increasingly comfortable with them. Good tip about the VPN on the Opera browser... I may try that. I have an email address for the contact I use if folks can’t access via any website... shoot me a message.

Steve Roedde I didn't get the screaming good deal you've mentioned, but it was certainly cheaper than what I previously thought possible. Cheap enough to take a flyer on 10g.

I'm not sure about an assay. Like you, with all the other confirmations I think risk of fraud is exceedingly low. I have thought about starting with skin cream and if no adverse reaction go to oral ingestion. I might also do a blood test to confirm potency and that I've cut it and dosed properly.

Also, I saw just today that Blagosklonny has been doing 10mg/wk and is considering going to 20mg/10-12 days. Cutting to 10mg dose is soooo much easier than a 2-4mg dose, I'm inclined to take it stronger for that reason as well.

https://twitter.com/Blagosklonny/status/1403520633514905614

Again, thanks for sharing. I'd have not done this without reading and feeling encouraged with your experience.

Liam_Cohen I found that 10mg/week plus 1/4 grapefruit is about max for me. When I went to 10 mg plus 1/3 grapefruit, canker sores developed on my tongue.

Thats not a very precise dosage given the variation in grapefruits but it seems I am pretty close and I do love red grapefruit.

chuck stanley My understanding is grapefruit has a component which binds to an enzyme that metabolizes rapamycin in the gut. By consuming grapefruit you are effectively taking a 30-80 mg dose as far as the amount getting into your blood stream.

Grapefruit makes a lot of sense if you are paying Big Pharma prices. If you are getting it in powder, it's probably not worth the extra effort, unless you really like grapefruit of course. All the dosage information is derived from the experience and assumption a certain amount of it is being metabolized in the gut and not reaching the bloodstream.

The correct cost-don't-matter solution is getting blood work done and fine-tuning one's dose based upon that. But even then, we don't know what serum levels "should be," we just have a bunch of anecdotal reports from people taking as much as they can until they get mouth sores and backing off a little from there. It's a pretty sad state of science as far as I can tell. It's much more like alchemy, in fact.

Liam_Cohen 

Thanks for making those important points.  Your estimate that I was taking a 30-80mg effective dose seemed high, though, so I did the arithmetic.

It’s been known that consuming 8 oz of grapefruit juice increases sirolimus levels by 350% , or 44% increase per  1 oz of juice. Since 1 grapefruit = 5 to 6 oz of juice, my 1/3 grapefruit gave me as much as 2  oz of juice. Therefore the effective dose was about 88% increase, giving me an effective dose of around 19 mg. Along with some sirolimus still in my system from the previous week, it must have been around 20mg that proved to be too much. I’ve taken 14 mg before without any side effects. So I think ¼ grapefruit would be about right. But I’ll be more precise in the future.

I do want the optimal dose, and as one who pays big pharma prices, I have to admit that price is a consideration.

I’m sure everyone has seen this from Blagosklonny:

“The optimal anti-aging dose is a personalized maximum dose that does not cause side effects in a particular patient

Optimal dose of rapamycin for maximal net benefits. Life extension by rapamycin is dose-dependent in rodents. The higher the dose, the higher the anti-aging benefits, including cancer prevention and life extension. In humans, side effects are dose-dependent and net benefits could potentially decrease at very high doses. This point of the highest net benefit is the optimal dose. The optimal dose varies in different individuals due to the variability of potential side effects. Thus, the optimal dose in a particular individual is determined by the emergence of side effects. The treatment can be viewed as life-long phase I/II clinical trial.

In conclusion, the side effects of rapamycin are well-known and reversible. When used on an anti-aging schedule, side effects may be absent but, if not, they may be mitigated by combining rapamycin with other anti-aging drugs (metformin, statins) or by temporarily discontinuing it.

Noteworthy, the alternative to the reversible (and avoidable) side effects of rapamycin/everolimus are the irreversible (and inevitable) effects of aging. And by living longer, our generation will benefit from future anti-aging discoveries”

chuck stanley Thank you for putting some numbers down and showing the math for all of us. I was just winging it directionally correct, based on a loose recollection. :)