Rapamycin Cost

Mark Rittman What is a rapamycin online prescription?

ssny. sotero I just Googled and found a doctor at PushHealth.com for a prescription.

Mark Rittman Thanks Mark.  However, I think getting it in the US is cost-prohibitive for me.  I need to go with a less expensive way of getting it.  I appreciate the information though.  I may be able to use it.

Rapa Interest  I just received mine.  I have never taken it before so I have nothing to compare it with.  I have ordered from the antiaging store for years and have never been disappointed to I am relying on their past performance.

Chris Los in the absence of 3rd party testing, blacklists, or reviews by other customers, my reasoning is that a larger company with its history and reputation to protect would have better quality control. So Zhejiang Multinpharma Co., Ltd. with 11-50 employees, would be preferred to a smaller company with 6 employees. I paid twice that for my 10g of rapamycin from Zhejiang Multinpharma. Please Let us know how it goes.

chuck stanley thanks! asked them for payment details. will also check out the company you mentioned. how much would it cost to get lab verification for the substance or better get a lab test a few hours after taking a dose? wonder if any labs would do that here in Berlin...will let you know what I decide and what happens. meanwhile, ordered a sensitive scale and 1kg of lactose....

Chris Los great! I dont know about lab verification costs. I was curious about that myself. Here is a contact for Zhejiang Multinpharma: rainbow@multin.cn. A couple of people on the forum have used them.

I just placed an ad on guru.com for a pharmacist type person to review my dilution and encapsulation procedure since I've never done this before. In order to get the maximum safe dose I want to know precisely how much rapa I end up with in my capsules.

Los Chris If you send It yo me to Spain, I Will pay you in advance. I offer 80 dollars for 3 grams. 68,7 euros

Los Chris my email is juan3z@yahoo.es

Juan Martínez Moreno Hola Juan, ¿qué tal? Let's see, if I really get 10g I can send you 3g for 24USD plus shipping. Don't want to do business, happy to just split the costs. Let's see how this develops, I keep you posted.

chuck stanley I plan on just doing a multistage dilution with lactose (e.g. 2g Rapa plus 8g lactose, mix - then add 10g lactose, mix - then 20g then 40g and so on until I get 2g Rapa per 1g lactose - I can easily weigh 2g lactose/rapa (my starting weekly dose for the first 3 months - still need to read more about dosing) sufficiently precisesly and add this to some kefir and olive oil on an empty stomach in the morning. Keeping a 3months supply in the fridge - rest gets in the freezer (also the undiluted 8g Rapa - minus whatever Juan gets...:-). Should be good for 2-3 years with minimal physical handling.      

Chris Los  Ready! Thanks! Wenever you want

Chris Los The cheapest I have found is $75 per gram with free Fedex shipping.  Cost has come down, but not that low.  If you order it through Alibaba, they guarantee you will get what you pay for.  They can give you a COA (Certificate of Analysis), but no way to tell if it is legitmate.  They should reference the batch sending to you that corresponds to the COA.  Do you have a reference lab, where you can send it to be analysed?  For 10 grams it might be worth taking a chance.  I have been using Sirolimus powder myself for 2 years, in order to get thru customs, but I order 2 grams at a time.  Fedex is crucial to get through customs, it is business not retail.  Keep us informed on what you decide

Chris Los 

Hmmm…That sounds a bit simpler than me trying to fill capsules. I was planning on starting with 10g of rapa and dilute it with 20g of lactose, an idea I got from JGC. With a mortar and pestle I would grind them together starting with a small quantity and then through geometric dilution repeat the process for the entire amount. I would end up with a 20:1 mix of lactose to rapa.

Hopefully I can find a micro scoop or spoon that holds 200 mg of mix (for my 10mg rapa dose) or some other reliable round figure. The final challenge would be finding a way, other than kefir and olive oil, to be able to swallow it.

Where did you see a recommendation for refrigeration of the powder? All I find is keep it dry and out of the light.

Van Thanks! The order came through "made-in-China.com". I don't have a reference lab, yet, will start looking next week. I also have an offer for 2g for USD 300 from another Chinese supplier. crazy price difference.

chuck stanley sorry, in my earlier post, the final concentration is 2mg rapa per g lactose, off course....thanks for all the tips!

chuck stanley ha, just got an offer from them 10g for 185USD, still a great price. they accept PayPal. may just do that.

Chris Los I mix 2 grams rapa powder with 250 grams lactose powder following the pharmacy protocol which is easy to find on utube..  Took about 2 hours to mix properly with ceramic bowl and SS spoon.  That was a year ago.  So for 10 mg dose, just weight out .25 grams of mixture per mg rapa.  6 mg = 1.50 grams  Crucial to mix with another agent to get accuracy needed.  I use a jewelers scale from Amazon with weights to calibrate.  Just weight it out every week and pour into mouth, and wash down.  Could not be easier.  I also was shopping on Made in China, and then they were referring me to Alibaba for final order using CC.  If you paying with PalPal, do not use them for any conversions, you will be ripped off, but if paying in US dollars, no worry.  Good Luck

Van Thanks a lot Van! Waiting for a COA from the company that chuck stanley mentioned. Also just contacted a reference lab in Berlin for a quote for verifying the substance. curious about their reaction and cost. If all goes well I should have 10g Sirolimus in the next weeks. Need to reread some papers and the recent Peter Attia podcast with Steve Austad where they discuss dosing...fingers crossed! Great to have such a nice community here!!

Chris Los I have been taking Rapamycin for 4 years. Curious about what reference lab wanted to charge? I have been trying without luck to get my rapa checked here in Spain. Would recommend following Dr. Blaglosklonny on Twitter to stay current on all things Rapa. Dr. Attia is also great, as well as Matt Kaeberlein with his dogs. The current dosing schedule is 20 mg. rapa every 14 days. Looking for Spike in blood to get past the blood/brain barrier into the hippocampus portion of brain where many believe aging is controlled from. Dr. B is using the 20 mg protocol and so am I. https://twitter.com/Blagosklonny/status/1445934725512765445?t=kdFsX5m0DMaOTe7GzGm63g&s=08

chuck stanley  Did you get someone to review?

ssny. sotero Not yet. I believe Chris is still looking for a lab that will provide a quote. 

chuck stanley in communication with several labs. here in Germany there are 100000 regulations for everything...more complicated than I thought. will update you. 

Chris Los 

My rapa just arrived today (in perfect condition). My rep from Zhejiang, (Rainbow), has followed up with me every step of the way. If nothing else, communication has been excellent.

After many revisions to my initially flawed protocol to dilute the product, thanks to the generous help and advice from those who commented, I finally submitted my equipment and supplies order to Amazon. 

I also contacted a laboratory for a quote and will find out the cost here in the States so we can compare. 

Chris Los I could not find anything when searching for "Henan Dongyao International Trade Co., Ltd." But, here is a TrustPilot review of www.made-in-china.com: https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.made-in-china.com .

Chris Los Read my post below on mixing. I store my mixture in a glass container with a good seal in freezer. Yes, rapa is frozen OK. Take 2-3 months out and store in fridge. https://www.medisca.net/compounding/tips

Chris Los Here is who I bought 1.5 grams from 18 months ago.  When mixing you need to use enough lactose to make accurate weighing with a .0001 scale.  I think 250 grams Rx Lactose powder to 2 grams of rapa would insure that.  You can buy a .00001 lab balance, but much more money and technique is paramount when trying to weigh mg of Rapa.

Van great, thanks so much! Today I got a quote for a lab check for verifying the substance. The lab in Berlin said they cannot determine the exact concentration in the powder - only a qualitative check for a Sirolimus signal. I then suggested they better measure my blood levels - should give me 3 types of info: i) is there a Sirolimus signal, ii) since only the blood level matters, I can adjust the dose irrespective of the real concentration in the powder, and iii) this adjustment would also take care of my personal bioavailability. Test is about 50 Euros from EDTA blood - now I just need to figure out when to test? 24-48h after a weekly dose? Spike value or equilibrium value e.g. 6 days after the last dose? I also intend to test for the grapefruit effect just out of curiosity - worth another 50 Euros....    

Chris Los You will be disappointed in a blood test.  I have done them and they show the presence of Rapa only.  There are Toxicology labs that can take a sample of the Sirolimus and test it.  When you tell them what it is suppose to be, it really helps and they can do appropriate test.  Test it before mixing with powder.  If it takes a gram, that is OK.  There are more sophisticated tests for checking blood that they use in trials.  How do you think they monitor it.  They monitor transplant patients blood all the time when there taking Sirolimus daily.  Toxicology labs can easily check it.  I will check on my end also.  I will buy whatever you want to sell me.  Thanks for your hard work.  Just remember, you need a lot of lactose powder to measure accurately. (100-125 grams per 1 gram Sirolimus)  I paid about 20 euros for a kilo of Rx grade.

SD thanks for sharing! feel like I am on a drawn-out learning curve, one that may never end...:-) might consider Van concern, may not be able to interpret my blood data for adjusting dose. 

chuck stanley Two things that stick out to me on this protocol.  Only using 1,000 grams of lactose powder is not enough for accuracy that I would like. 2,000 grams of Lactose is better.   It equates out to .10 mixture = 1 mg. rapa.  Just a little bit either way with your scoop will effect your dose my 1-3 mg. up or down.  I feel that dosing 2-4 times a month requires a 1/1000 (.0001) jewelers scale for accuracy. ($25-35 on Amazon)  Using your strategy, 5 mg rapa = .5 grams of mixture.  Much better accuracy when mixing 1 gram of rapa with 200 grams of lactose powder. .20 mixture = 1 mg. rapa, and 5 mg dose of mixture = 1 gram.  Weighing the mixture weekly or bi-weekly is a breeze, and only takes 2 min total.

Also, grinding rapa powder to same size as lactose is not needed. (using pestle to grind powders to uniform size)  Titrating to identical particle size is important when it comes to disolving the mixture in liquid.  Only mixing in my opinion is necessary.  The particle size is not crucial as they show in the video using a mortar and pestle.  I used a very large cermaic bowl and large stainless spoon.  Start out with equal amounts of rapa and lactose in bowl (red die is OK).   Mix throughly, now match amount in bowl (in this case 20 grams)  and add 20 grams of fresh lactose to match and mix throughly.  Repeat matching amount in bowl until all properly weighed lactose is used.  You can match with your eye.  Do not have to weigh lactose each cycle.  Took me 2 hours.  Remember this is enough mixture to last you almost 10 years taking 10 mg rapa weekly. (1,000 doses of rapa at 10 mg.)  Do not know about storing for that length of time.  You could think about Rapa cream to slow ageing of skin.

It is crucial to accurately weigh the Sirolimus and the Lactose before you mix.  I would not take anyone's word of how much material they sent you.  I weighed my 1.5 grams of rapa and only got 1.478 from my supplier. ( careful technique and calibrating the scale)  Was not worth complaining about, but was not happy.  They should have added a little extra to make sure.  Also, I am using a jewelers scale vs a lab balance.

Any feedback and or criticism is always appreciated

Van 

Thanks for your thorough and thoughtful critique, Van, I really appreciate your advice on this. I had been wondering about using 200 to 1 lactose to rapa rather than 100:1 in order to achieve greater accuracy.  Since I will be using some of it for topical application I was a little worried about having so much lactose in the mix.

I expect I can safely freeze the mix for long periods and withstand the partial thaw cycles in my freezer by packaging with color-changing desiccant packs. But I think I will process only 5g of rapa instead of using all 10g. I am currently on weekly 10mg + 8oz gfj. I will probably omit the juice and try to reach maximum safe dose using only the rapa since that would be more consistent. Even at that rate of consumption, I should have enough to last me at least 5 years, with 5g of undiluted rapa left over.

The jewelers scale I have in my Amazon cart is .001, I haven’t been able to find one with a .0001 accuracy for under $400. Maybe that was a typo, but anyway, with the 200:1 dilution I believe .001 accuracy should be sufficient.

chuck stanley https://www.amazon.com/Fuzion-Milligram-Portable-Reloading-Batteries/dp/B07TBJBFRK

Van There are others.  The lower the capacity, i.e. 10-20 grams the higher the accuracy on all scales.  Also, need one with calibration weights included  Good Luck

chuck stanley I do not believe you will be using Lactose as a mixing agent with the cream.  Check Dr. Green's site on this.  There are other's also,  Haven't done it myself yet, but has trials saying it works

Van Good point! I would no longer be able to use Dr. Mark's recipe. Previously I ground up sirolimus tablets.  That's the way I should do it again. After going through 2 jars of cream I can say it gave me some benefits but nothing outstanding. Good enough that I will do it some more... and twice a day instead of once.

I think the lactose/rapa mix would dissolve okay in the DMSO, but I dont know how to do the calculations to arrive at the correct concentration.

chuck stanley I hesitated replying earlier, but feel like now I should. I think you are over-engineering it. Many people are taking doses of 10mg/week, and Blagosklonny and others are taking 20mg at a time. I took 20mg/week for a month with no side-effects.

I used potato starch since it is cheap and readily available. And I had it on hand. I weighed 1/8 a tsp 10 times. The median was 450 mg per 1/8 tsp. The range was 460 to 400 mg.

I decided on 5mg rapamycin per 1/8 tsp so I could easily choose my dose in 5 mg increments... 5mg, 10mg, 15mg, 20mg.

So, a 900 mg mixture (2 x 1/8 tsps) needs to have 10mg rapamycin. That means mix 1g rapamycin (10mg * 100) into 89 g potato starch (890mg * 100) = 90 g mixture (900mg * 100; ie. 2 x 1/8 tsps).

I have an old high school chemistry balance which is precise to 10 mg, which is plenty of precision for measuring 1 gram.

As far as my 1/8 tsp, that's my biggest source of error. It's +2% to -10%, but that is fine when the active ingredient is 1% of my mixture.

Liam_Cohen Oh, also, I only measured out 1 gram rapamycin. The other 9 are in the freezer, still in their original packaging. No reason to adulterate it before I need it. Maybe something will come up where I need it full strength for some reason.

Liam_Cohen 

I’m glad you did weigh in. Good tips. It is really helpful to have different points of view and the sharing of protocols and experiences. Especially so with expensive prescription drugs that have serious side effects if you get it wrong over an extended period of time.   

I’m trying to balance out the practical with the cautious. I want to be as precise and consistent as reasonable so that I can trust when I’ve reached maximum safe dose.

Perhaps I’m being overly cautious with some of this. I am probably spending more than I should and if I hadn’t already purchased my expensive NF grade lactose I would consider potato starch. From a practical point of view it also make a lot of sense to not dilute so much of it, needlessly occupying more freezer space.

I have to mention that one thing that really concerns me is that Blagosklonny decided to stop at 20mg for his biweekly dosage despite experiencing no side effects at that dosage. He says he is not comfortable going above that. It seems to me he knows of dangers below “maximum safe dosage” that arent yet clear to me. That he has fears is one reason that I will err on the side of excessive accuracy.

Another piece of information I wish I had is expert advice, even a best guess, on recommended wash out frequency, if any.

chuck stanley do you have a source for the red dye?

Charles Richardson I just bought an assortment since I wasnt sure whether to use red or blue given my moderate color blindness. I bought  LorAnn Food Coloring Powder 1/2 Ounce, Set of 7 Colors from Amazon.

chuck stanley Thanks

Liam_Cohen Do you take your weekly dose with or without food, and does the potato starch create digestive problems like gas?  I can not tolerate milk products which means potato starch may be an alternative for me.  I wonder if there are other simple alternative ingredients for mixing?

Jay Orman Without. A 1/4 tsp of potato starch is so small I don't even notice it.

Incidentally, raw potato starch (in the 1-4 Tbsp range) has been used by a lot of people to treat gut dysbiosis. It preferentially feeds beneficial bacteria like akkermansia and (IIRC) lactobacillus plantarum. "FreeTheAnimal" blog was where I first heard about it, probably 5 or 6 years ago. Good luck!

Brin Chikovski great report! thanks a ton. actually somewhat good news for rapa

Brin Chikovski Thank you so much for the information regarding your tests results. I am having sirolimus from another chinese lab, Wuhan Hengheda Pharm Co., Ltd. by means of Alibaba. Naturally, always wondered about my powder purity and risky residues. Your data looks, for me at least, as a clue for what they are cooking for us in China.

Engadin Zermatt I suspect that most of the people ordering product from unknown companies in China have never done business in china. The supply chain - especially for chemicals and compounds like this - is extremely opaque and untrustworthy. The company that you have provided a name for has a hotmail account as their primary email account. When is the last time you saw a major company in any other part of the world using a hotmail account as their primary email account? https://www.hhdpharm.com. You guys really are placing far too much trust in suppliers who probably don't care if you live, or die, or get seriously injured by contaminants (and you have no legal recourse against them whatever happens). You really need to test product coming out of china. What the lab tests I've seen on the Indian Pharma company versions of rapamycin suggest that - at least in those batches - the product was reasonably good. You really should be much more skeptical of the Chinese products.

Brin Chikovski Not that I am one but bodybuilders today buy EVERYTHING (gh, test, ancillaries) from China, Turkey everywhere ... yet most are extremely meticulous when it comes to having samples sent out for testing. Many are not as dumb as one might think. One lab in particular with a very good reputation is https://www.janoshik.com/. He may be able to test many of the things discussed on this forum. Email him at info AT janoshik.com

Brin Chikovski You are right in that I have never done business in China but my brother-in-law and some friends have and it depends, somehow, on luck. OTOH I wasn't aware of hotmails' email cause I always chat with them in a very quick and easy manner by means of Alibaba. Having their own web site, it is just lazyness not to have a more 'serious' or 'business friendly' @hhdpharm.com one. I was in my way to trying to check the quality of their product these days, but I guess I'll think it twice and start looking for an indian provider from now on. Thanks for your comments.

Brin Chikovski The only problem with getting stuff from India is that a significant portion of the raw materials used by Indian pharmaceutical companies comes from China.

Charles Richardson Yes - the raw materials (Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients) coming out of china are a concern - but as with most industries, there are 3 or 4 main companies holding most of the market share in this area, who in turn provide them to the top market share holders / pharma companies in India.  We have data on the final drugs coming out of India (via individual tests and reports from independent labs and groups like Valisure).  I'm sure that the major pharma companies have some reasonable quality control processes in place for inbound APIs from the major producers.  But - obviously the actual quality control processes in place in each of the Indian generic manufacturers will vary by company, by person in charge of the QC process in each company, and the specific pressures being put on these groups depending upon profit / speed / production in each company, as well as pure water and other resources being used for input in the process.  The Katherine Eban book suggests that things can break down at any point in this process.  And the concern for people buying chemicals from truly opaque middlemen in China (likely just trading companies who care a lot more about profit than any concern for the ultimate consumer) are truly pushing the risk profile.  To me its crazy - the cost from India for rapamycin is about $20 to $30/month for major brands that "seem" to be mostly ok from the Valisure tests - and people here, to save $20/month - are risking their lives by buying from completely unknown middleman in China, with absolutely no knowledge about what they are getting and no validation of purity or contaminants...  its like the difference between getting a drug from the pharmacy and from a dealer on the street... crazy stuff.

Brin Chikovski Hey Brin! Thanks for sharing that link - and also sharing the domain as well... wow... that's an interesting looking website with lots of information. Have bookmarked it to read more later!

Brin Chikovski I agree with that assessment.

chuck stanley I 'm waiting for Chris to receive It. I'm open to participate in analysis as well. juan3z@yahoo.es Spain

Juan Martínez Moreno Juan - getting there! I post here documentation of the process so that those who consider ordering get a feeling for how it all works. Yesterday Ms Rene from Zhejiang Mulinpharma sent me pictures of my package contents and promised to send it express. see attached. I also attach the COA for the sirolimus order. I paid 190USD for 10g Sirolimus (did not go with the much cheaper quote from another company)

One potential learning here: After a bit of superficial DD on the company it is unlikely they are a manufacturer of pharmaceuticals (they are in the steel business). They are a most likely just a broker buying from some unknown manufacturer which also makes the COA a bit suspicious. Not sure what the implications are - just go for the best quote b/c there may be very few producers and everone is a broker of the same substance? chuck stanley any thoughts on this?      

Chris Los Thanks to all the super helpful info from Chuck, Van and others here, I also bought a jewelers scale (similar model to the one that Van posted), 20mg to 50g standard weights to calibrate the scale, various metal spatulas and a soft rubber spatula, dark glass storage containers, a glass mortar and pestle, red food dye and lactose....(I used to work as a research lab scientist in cancer research so this is bringing me back to the "lab"....:-)) 

On the testing front: I will do a 50Euro blood test (at peak blood levels, 1-2 h after taking a 3mg dose - that will be my starting dose). On the question of raw material purity and quantity I am still traing to find a toxicology lab that is willing to do it - one already turned me down. Will keep you posted!     

Chris Los sorry forgot to upload the other picture with the batch numbers for sirolimus 10g and dasatinib 1g in my earlier message.

Chris Los Thanks for your explanations. 190 USD is a good price!

Chris Los This is the problem with china - so many middle men, that you don't actually have any clue who the actual manufacturer is, so its impossible to get any feel for the actual quality of the product.  And you never know if the middleman is changing his suppliers - so if you or someone else orders one time, there is no guarantee that when you or someone else ordered again that you're actually getting the product from the same manufacturer with the same quality controls... you can't trust anything in China.  

Brin Chikovski 

Thanks for your warnings. In the end, I guess using a lab to test a sample is about the best we can do, and as you point out, that’s not completely reliable either. Until then, its more a leap of faith.

I do feel less suspicious when I am dealing with foreign companies that other people have used without issues. I think we have all been exposed to so many scams over the years that we have developed a sense of when things just don’t smell right. One misstep raises a red flag. The fact that Zhejiang Multinpharma has a steel business and a “brother company” pharmaceutical business doesn’t bother me.

Everything so far seems very professional and correct.  

chuck stanley Agree - no complaints about Zhejiang Multinpharma generally. But: I asked for a COA for my dasatinib order and posed the question about whether they are a manufacturer to Rene. This is what she replied: "No worry, I will send you the coa after get home. we shipped many to other customers .  our company is a group did chemical and steel ,states ... chemical website : www.multinpharma.com"

not a very convincing answer - I think they are mainly a trading company and don't actually manufacture anything...:-) if they carefully pick their suppliers- no prob. I suggest we all make an effort to find a reliable manufacturer instead... Btw, I also think they ripped me off with the dasatinib order - 150USD for 1g...:-)

Chris Los My preference has been and continues to be for an Indian pharmacy for all the reasons that Brin articulated so well, but I had trouble finding powders in India, which led me to China . There is such a wealth of knowledge and experience on this forum, perhaps I should have asked.

I would love to find a credible powder manufacturer in India that produces not just pharmaceuticals but also the pricey over the counter products. 

Ozone8 Perhaps of interest:  

How to buy rapamycin, what is the cost:

https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-buy-rapamycin-what-is-the-cost-pt2/68

How people are importing rapamycin:

https://www.rapamycin.news/t/importing-rapamycin-part-2/82

Brin Chikovski 

Which brand to buy?

I found several Indian companies that produce rapamycin – sirolimus. The most well-known names are Zydos Cadila and Biocon.  But there are a few other large pharmaceutical companies that seem to be in this for the long run. I am reluctant to buy from small companies in China when it is possible to buy from well-known large pharmaceutical companies India.

https://www.zyduscadila.com/    - Siromus

https://www.biocon.com/  - Rapacan

https://www.panaceabiotec.com/en  – Siropan

https://www.emcure.com/about-us-overview/ -  Rocas

https://www.alniche.com/  -  Rapasim

I foudna few others companies but they seemed to be smaller than the ones above.

Staffan Olsson great list! I currently consume a China powder but may decide to just use it for creams - less risk. can I order directly from these Indian manufacturing companies or do I need to go through middlemen/brokers that do the shipping and handle payments? thanks!

Stefan Ihlberg I am interested if you consider buying a large quantity from India? 

Staffan Olsson 

Send me a email and we can discuss further.

Ihlberg at gmail com

Staffan Olsson I didn't hear back from you. Please send me an email if you're still interested

Van Dr. Kaeberlein and Dr. Green for dinner in NY

Chris Los Have had 2 shipments of rapa powder from China without a problem here in Spain.  Number 1 thing is to pay for Fedex shipping, nothing else will work past customs.  Supplier should know this, if not then they are inexperienced.  Fedex is business shipping samples.  Fedex cost me 50 euros and worth every dime.

Chris Los 

I’m very sorry to hear that, Chris. I didn’t have any problems in USA with my USPS shipment. 

I have had no luck so far finding a lab that will test my rapa powder. Here in the U.S., the labs aren’t interested in small consumer jobs, quoted informally $2500 to do a simple % test.

Indian labs were reasonable but none have yet expressed a willingness to work with a small sample. One lab wanted a minimum sample size of 10grams. Indiamart.com website is helpful in identifying possible resources and I'll keep looking. Chinese labs are also reportedly inexpensive but I haven’t found a similar platform in China.

chuck stanley Great news - my shipment was released by customs and arrived at my home! The Chinese company that chuck recommended was outstanding all the way through, updating me every day...:-).

Will start with a 2 day 100mg dasatinib and 2g Fisetin on Monday. Week after I will start with 3mg Sirolimus once a week and increase the dosis by 1g every 2 weeks up to a dosis of 6mg. At the 4mg dosis I will do a first blood test to see if the lab picks up sirolimus and to get approximate blood levels. I will also start with a topical application. 

Thanks to all of you for the great encouragement and advice! May we live long and prosper....:-)  

Chris Los that makes my day!

Chris Los ! The only reasons for other types of communication is my being cautios about totally unencrypted forums like this one (that's why I favour Protonmail and Signal - only sometimes). I received the attached (heading removed) letter in my mailbox from customs about a parcel containing Rapamycin, which made me give up both on the delivery (I asked them to kindly throw it out - there was little choice in the form) and on the country in this respect; I'd like to know if the forms you received were just as severe. This goes together with a talk with a customs officer about supplements, where I learned that even supplements can be regarded as medicines if they are good for you. I then discovered that even between EU countries this kind of item would be checked for - hopefully just by the Postzollamt. I've been thinking of relocating to your country instead of the UK lately as I've come across a real  possibility of buying Rapa and Dasatinib there - although at the high price. My payment came back because there was no invoice. I could not implement other forms of payment, so the only way would have been travelling backwards and forwards a long way, which recently I don't feel like doing by myself. At any rate here is the 2020 form which I wish to make a comparison with.
If you know of a physical like-minded group in any location in our two countries I'd be very interested. Thanks for your patience!!!

Paula Marie Dr. Matt Kaeberlein is dosing the dogs at .15 rapa per kg. once a week in dog project.  Was doing 3 x week, but changed

Van Thats very interesting. I thought 3x was a bit too aggressive. So did he change the dose to compensate?

Van Van Thank you so very much for your reply! I didn’t realize Matt Kaeberlein changed the dose. I’ll do the same with my dog. Thanks again! Looks like my dog was over-dosed, he’s 60 lbs. He acts real healthy ever since then, I just wonder if the Rapamycin affected the Lipase/Alk.Phos.levels or not. They are still elevated and rising. 

Fred Cloud My vet knew nothing about Rapamycin. I asked him for it, as my dog was sick and in early-stage kidney disease. My vet made me sign a waiver, and that was the dose he prescribed. I had to get the Rapamycin elsewhere. So, I gave my 60 pound dog 3 mg. Rapamycin (three times weekly)  for two months, with a one month rest period, then for another month. He became a super dog! Running around like he did five years ago. His kidney counts went back to normal, as mentioned, but his Alk.Phos. and Lipase had very slight elevations. After that (even off the Rapamycin) they steadily began to rise and are now in the hundreds. My vet suspected Cushings Disease even before the Rapamycin, so the Rapamycin could just be coincidental. I think you’re right in saying I gave him too aggressive of a dose though. He feels much better now than before, though, despite the lab results. Still, I’m worried that they keep rising. Hope I didn’t damage his pancreas or liver.

Paula Marie Glad to hear he is feeling better.

Did the doc say he could treat the Cushings?

I think there are some meds.

Fred Cloud 

Fred Cloud Actually, I did some online research, and there is much scientific evidence that Melatonin supplement can help Cushings Disease. I’m going to try that, since he has so much energy since on Rapamycin, that he doesn’t always want to go to sleep sometimes at night! So the Melatonin should work nicely! The medical treatment seems aggressive (one medication purposely destroys part of the adrenal glands) and it requires expensive and consistent follow-up; it is actually a form of chemo). Just hope his blood counts return to normal, he’s my best friend!

Paula Marie Everything you need to know. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vsNw-OCciU

Van Thank you, Van, it was an interesting video.

Paula Marie don't have any data for a dog, but my kidney function improved greatly on rapamycin while Alk Phos did not change

John Mcgough He’s about 63 pounds

denial I really don't see how UDS 259.- is a good price for 100mg of Rapamycin...?

Chris Los I agree.  Here is an article about the different cost profiles for different avenues of buying rapamycin:

https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-buy-rapamycin-what-is-the-cost-pt2/68

Brin Chikovski Thanks for that link. You can also try one of the Life Extension doctors listed here. https://health.lifeextension.com/innovativedoctors/ And, some of the doctors who advertise bio-identical hormone replacement therapy will also work with you on this. I know of two in my area that are not listed on either link who will prescribe. But they don't take insurance.

Chuck Frasher I tried that initially when I was trying to get rapamycin - called all the local doctors from that LifeExtension list in my area - but none of them knew anything about rapamycin and wouldn't prescribe it.  That was two years ago - so it may have changed, but it was just frustrating.  Here is a list of doctors that are verified to prescribe rapamycin.

https://www.rapamycin.news/t/doctors-that-prescribe-rapamycin-part-2/69

Paula Marie you might want to review the discussions on this, especially the comments by Mark Thimineur.

Here is one of his posts on the subject: It would be much less expensive if you simply make your own. First purchase Dimethyl sulfoxide liquid (3.4 Oz - 100ml), Pharmaceutical grade, High purity, Heiltropfen from Amazon for $13.70. Then purchase DMSO Cream With Aloe Vera - Lavender Scented, Made With 99.9% Pure Pharmaceutical grade DMSO - 70% DMSO/30% Aloe Vera, Made in USA for Live Better Naturals 4 oz from Amazon for $19.87. 
Take 3mg of sirolimus - if from capsule it is already powder, if from tablet you have to use mortar and pestle. Mix that with 3-4 ml of DMSO. I suggest using a small capped test tube or something that can be shaken vigorously and allowed to sit for 10 minutes so all the sirolimus is dissolved. The fillers in the capsule or tablets won't dissolve completely so the solution will be cloudy. 
Scoop the DMSO cream into another bowl and mix in the DMSO/sirolimus thoroughly and place back into the original container and label it as containing 3mg sirolimus. With the expected wastage this will give you about 25 micromolar topical for a cost of about $33.60 plus the cost of rapamycin which is about $1 per milligram from Tailor Made, more or less from other supplies. My total cost is $36.60. The amount of grams in the 4 ounce cream tub is 118. So I am able to easily create the equivalent of four 30 gram containers of more potent (25 micromolar) topical for the cost one less potent (11 micromolar) topical from Tailor Made. 
 

chuck stanley I'm not sure why you would use DMSL for a face cream. Dr Green just mixes it with a moisturizing cream. 

Charles Richardson I'm not sure either. 

chuck stanley Thank you so much for taking all that time to explain things so well! Have you noticed an improvement in your skin since using it?

Paula Marie thanks, but the credit for the detailed explanation should go to Mark Thimineur.

There is no doubt that the cream works. That is evident from the pinch test  on the back of the hand. The decrease in pinch recovery time was remarkable in my case and similar results have been reported by others as well.

I used up 2 jars over a period of about 9 months until I ran out... with once daily application. However, I have the perception that on my face the effects of aging are outpacing the effects of the cream. I think that although there is an improvement in fine lines and texture, overall I'm not looking any younger. 

I'm getting ready to mix up a new batch of cream with a very slight increase in strength and a plan to apply twice daily.  

chuck stanley could not decipher this mix of grams and ounces and molarities.  would be great if we could stick to metric units here! ok, so 3mg of sirolimus, plus 3-4ml of DMSO plus how many g of cream to get a 25micromolar concentration of  sirolimus? thanks!

Chris Los Mark says 118 grams, which is 4 oz of cream, the amount that comes in a jar. 

Paula Marie I don't think you will find any doctors who will prescribe this except Dr Green and he may be too busy to accept new clients...:-) We just don't know if this is worth the effort except for some well defined skin pathologies such as angiofibromas. Dr. Green and many others use topical rapa primarily for benign skin damage such as actinic keratosis. Frankly, you are much likely better of with a topical fluorouracil creme for AKs. works very well and very fast (1-2 weeks). topical rapa is not worth the effort unless you are a nerd (e.g ex-scientist etc) like some of us who like to do exploratory experimentation!

chuck stanley thanks chuck!

chuck stanley Thanks Chuck! I guess skin wrinkles will remain a tough challenge, lol. Nothing seems to get rid of them! If the pinch test improved, then that possibly means an increase of hydration. I did see a photo in a scientific journal of a woman who used rapamycin cream on only one hand for 4 months—that hand looked about seven years younger, though I don’t know what dose of cream it was. 

Chris Los I’ve never heard of topical fluorouracil creme. Does that treat aging skin? Thanks for your information!

Paula Marie sun damaged skin, precancerous lesions. FU does not do anything for wrinkles. Afaik, unless we can restore the capacity of seborrheic glands to produce more fatty acids the way they do in younger skin, we will probably have to live with wrinkles...

Chris Los  Oh, sigh! That’s sad news. To think something very serious can be helped, but not those darn wrinkles!

Paula Marie It treats red spots, precancerous issues. A strong, compounded topical Retin-A has made my red and brown spots practically disappear in under a month. The red spots from fluorouracil diminished a very little bit over a 4 month period.

Michael was your Retin-A compounded with another ingredient (what) or compounded to a higher strength (what strength)?

Michael 

Paula Marie That’s good to know. Does one need a doctor’s prescription for topical fluorouracil creme? I wonder if Rapamycin cream would do something similar?

Paula Marie In the states I believe you do need a doc's script. I got one from a plastic surgeon I was talking with about blepharoplasty, but you could probably get it here: https://www.goodrx.com/fluorouracil (I have no affiliation)

My experience over one year - in order of what actually worked for me:

1. Retin-A

2. Fluorouracil

3. Home Brew Rapamycin cream ( As outlined somewhere on this forum, by Dr. Mark)

I tried a MULTITUDE of creams, oils, vitamins, supplements, red light, some other deally, where you rub a dildo looking thing on your face that heats up... I mean, it was disgusting the amount of things I tried and not because I'm a narcissist, but because I started looking like absolute shit. I spent more money on all of the above things than the 6K for my upper and lower bleph and an $80 a month script for the Retin-A.

Here's a side note. The whole HGH longevity thing is bullshit. You don't LOOK any younger on GH. You absolutely feel younger, though I lost a lot of my gray hair while I was using it. Skin-wise, I'm afraid you'd have to get into the body builder daily doses to seriously see a positive impact, if at all. However, I did have some positive objective aesthetic facial improvements, using a combination of CJC and BPC-157.

chuck stanley I'm unsure. I just started using what my doc wrote a script for and I seriously cannot believe the results AND it's only like $80 a pop. It's been far superior to my rapamycin home brew endeavors (according to Dr. Mark's formula) and I made several variations of differing strengths - because I'm generally impatient as hell. 

There's tele-docs everywhere and I've tried a few. That route might work.

The doc that wrote this particular Retin-A script is located in Dallas and I guess he MIGHT be willing to consider a tele-client? though, he performed my bleph - in person. lol

https://www.drvrcek.com/

Ivan Vrcek. He looks like he's 17 years old but he's absolutely amazing.

Michael Michael Thank you very much for your in-depth information! I just spent a considerable amount of money on a red led light therapy device (still waiting for it to arrive, and was also considering the electrical pulse skin devices) and already have the feeling it won’t work for all the skin rejuvenation claims it makes. I could slap myself. Hopefully, it will at least have some use for my dog’s arthritis, which it also claims to be able to help. I guess I just felt desperate.

Engadin Zermatt well, that's an interesting point. Are there particular fillers that you would have concerns about?  Dr. Thimineur did make a point that the mixture would be cloudy since the fillers would not be completely dissolved. But there is risk associated with using do-it-yourself topical rapamycin cream in the first place, so I think anyone who wants to use crushed tablets instead of powder would want to know  if that poses an additional significant risk. 

Engadin Zermatt  Thank you for the interesting article!

Engadin Zermatt 

For those with cosmetic skin issues throwing tarot cards.

Upper and Lower Bleph and Retin-A.

Far superior to any Rapamycin voodoo and the results are acquired in an extremely short period of time.

It's amazing. 

JohnnyAdams This looks good.  I hope it will be successful.