Rapamycin Cost

Chris Los Read my post below on mixing. I store my mixture in a glass container with a good seal in freezer. Yes, rapa is frozen OK. Take 2-3 months out and store in fridge. https://www.medisca.net/compounding/tips

Chris Los Here is who I bought 1.5 grams from 18 months ago.  When mixing you need to use enough lactose to make accurate weighing with a .0001 scale.  I think 250 grams Rx Lactose powder to 2 grams of rapa would insure that.  You can buy a .00001 lab balance, but much more money and technique is paramount when trying to weigh mg of Rapa.

Van great, thanks so much! Today I got a quote for a lab check for verifying the substance. The lab in Berlin said they cannot determine the exact concentration in the powder - only a qualitative check for a Sirolimus signal. I then suggested they better measure my blood levels - should give me 3 types of info: i) is there a Sirolimus signal, ii) since only the blood level matters, I can adjust the dose irrespective of the real concentration in the powder, and iii) this adjustment would also take care of my personal bioavailability. Test is about 50 Euros from EDTA blood - now I just need to figure out when to test? 24-48h after a weekly dose? Spike value or equilibrium value e.g. 6 days after the last dose? I also intend to test for the grapefruit effect just out of curiosity - worth another 50 Euros....    

Chris Los You will be disappointed in a blood test.  I have done them and they show the presence of Rapa only.  There are Toxicology labs that can take a sample of the Sirolimus and test it.  When you tell them what it is suppose to be, it really helps and they can do appropriate test.  Test it before mixing with powder.  If it takes a gram, that is OK.  There are more sophisticated tests for checking blood that they use in trials.  How do you think they monitor it.  They monitor transplant patients blood all the time when there taking Sirolimus daily.  Toxicology labs can easily check it.  I will check on my end also.  I will buy whatever you want to sell me.  Thanks for your hard work.  Just remember, you need a lot of lactose powder to measure accurately. (100-125 grams per 1 gram Sirolimus)  I paid about 20 euros for a kilo of Rx grade.

SD thanks for sharing! feel like I am on a drawn-out learning curve, one that may never end...:-) might consider Van concern, may not be able to interpret my blood data for adjusting dose. 

chuck stanley Two things that stick out to me on this protocol.  Only using 1,000 grams of lactose powder is not enough for accuracy that I would like. 2,000 grams of Lactose is better.   It equates out to .10 mixture = 1 mg. rapa.  Just a little bit either way with your scoop will effect your dose my 1-3 mg. up or down.  I feel that dosing 2-4 times a month requires a 1/1000 (.0001) jewelers scale for accuracy. ($25-35 on Amazon)  Using your strategy, 5 mg rapa = .5 grams of mixture.  Much better accuracy when mixing 1 gram of rapa with 200 grams of lactose powder. .20 mixture = 1 mg. rapa, and 5 mg dose of mixture = 1 gram.  Weighing the mixture weekly or bi-weekly is a breeze, and only takes 2 min total.

Also, grinding rapa powder to same size as lactose is not needed. (using pestle to grind powders to uniform size)  Titrating to identical particle size is important when it comes to disolving the mixture in liquid.  Only mixing in my opinion is necessary.  The particle size is not crucial as they show in the video using a mortar and pestle.  I used a very large cermaic bowl and large stainless spoon.  Start out with equal amounts of rapa and lactose in bowl (red die is OK).   Mix throughly, now match amount in bowl (in this case 20 grams)  and add 20 grams of fresh lactose to match and mix throughly.  Repeat matching amount in bowl until all properly weighed lactose is used.  You can match with your eye.  Do not have to weigh lactose each cycle.  Took me 2 hours.  Remember this is enough mixture to last you almost 10 years taking 10 mg rapa weekly. (1,000 doses of rapa at 10 mg.)  Do not know about storing for that length of time.  You could think about Rapa cream to slow ageing of skin.

It is crucial to accurately weigh the Sirolimus and the Lactose before you mix.  I would not take anyone's word of how much material they sent you.  I weighed my 1.5 grams of rapa and only got 1.478 from my supplier. ( careful technique and calibrating the scale)  Was not worth complaining about, but was not happy.  They should have added a little extra to make sure.  Also, I am using a jewelers scale vs a lab balance.

Any feedback and or criticism is always appreciated

Van 

Thanks for your thorough and thoughtful critique, Van, I really appreciate your advice on this. I had been wondering about using 200 to 1 lactose to rapa rather than 100:1 in order to achieve greater accuracy.  Since I will be using some of it for topical application I was a little worried about having so much lactose in the mix.

I expect I can safely freeze the mix for long periods and withstand the partial thaw cycles in my freezer by packaging with color-changing desiccant packs. But I think I will process only 5g of rapa instead of using all 10g. I am currently on weekly 10mg + 8oz gfj. I will probably omit the juice and try to reach maximum safe dose using only the rapa since that would be more consistent. Even at that rate of consumption, I should have enough to last me at least 5 years, with 5g of undiluted rapa left over.

The jewelers scale I have in my Amazon cart is .001, I haven’t been able to find one with a .0001 accuracy for under $400. Maybe that was a typo, but anyway, with the 200:1 dilution I believe .001 accuracy should be sufficient.

chuck stanley https://www.amazon.com/Fuzion-Milligram-Portable-Reloading-Batteries/dp/B07TBJBFRK

Van There are others.  The lower the capacity, i.e. 10-20 grams the higher the accuracy on all scales.  Also, need one with calibration weights included  Good Luck

chuck stanley I do not believe you will be using Lactose as a mixing agent with the cream.  Check Dr. Green's site on this.  There are other's also,  Haven't done it myself yet, but has trials saying it works

Van Good point! I would no longer be able to use Dr. Mark's recipe. Previously I ground up sirolimus tablets.  That's the way I should do it again. After going through 2 jars of cream I can say it gave me some benefits but nothing outstanding. Good enough that I will do it some more... and twice a day instead of once.

I think the lactose/rapa mix would dissolve okay in the DMSO, but I dont know how to do the calculations to arrive at the correct concentration.

chuck stanley I hesitated replying earlier, but feel like now I should. I think you are over-engineering it. Many people are taking doses of 10mg/week, and Blagosklonny and others are taking 20mg at a time. I took 20mg/week for a month with no side-effects.

I used potato starch since it is cheap and readily available. And I had it on hand. I weighed 1/8 a tsp 10 times. The median was 450 mg per 1/8 tsp. The range was 460 to 400 mg.

I decided on 5mg rapamycin per 1/8 tsp so I could easily choose my dose in 5 mg increments... 5mg, 10mg, 15mg, 20mg.

So, a 900 mg mixture (2 x 1/8 tsps) needs to have 10mg rapamycin. That means mix 1g rapamycin (10mg * 100) into 89 g potato starch (890mg * 100) = 90 g mixture (900mg * 100; ie. 2 x 1/8 tsps).

I have an old high school chemistry balance which is precise to 10 mg, which is plenty of precision for measuring 1 gram.

As far as my 1/8 tsp, that's my biggest source of error. It's +2% to -10%, but that is fine when the active ingredient is 1% of my mixture.

Liam_Cohen Oh, also, I only measured out 1 gram rapamycin. The other 9 are in the freezer, still in their original packaging. No reason to adulterate it before I need it. Maybe something will come up where I need it full strength for some reason.

Liam_Cohen 

I’m glad you did weigh in. Good tips. It is really helpful to have different points of view and the sharing of protocols and experiences. Especially so with expensive prescription drugs that have serious side effects if you get it wrong over an extended period of time.   

I’m trying to balance out the practical with the cautious. I want to be as precise and consistent as reasonable so that I can trust when I’ve reached maximum safe dose.

Perhaps I’m being overly cautious with some of this. I am probably spending more than I should and if I hadn’t already purchased my expensive NF grade lactose I would consider potato starch. From a practical point of view it also make a lot of sense to not dilute so much of it, needlessly occupying more freezer space.

I have to mention that one thing that really concerns me is that Blagosklonny decided to stop at 20mg for his biweekly dosage despite experiencing no side effects at that dosage. He says he is not comfortable going above that. It seems to me he knows of dangers below “maximum safe dosage” that arent yet clear to me. That he has fears is one reason that I will err on the side of excessive accuracy.

Another piece of information I wish I had is expert advice, even a best guess, on recommended wash out frequency, if any.

chuck stanley do you have a source for the red dye?

Charles Richardson I just bought an assortment since I wasnt sure whether to use red or blue given my moderate color blindness. I bought  LorAnn Food Coloring Powder 1/2 Ounce, Set of 7 Colors from Amazon.

chuck stanley Thanks

Liam_Cohen Do you take your weekly dose with or without food, and does the potato starch create digestive problems like gas?  I can not tolerate milk products which means potato starch may be an alternative for me.  I wonder if there are other simple alternative ingredients for mixing?

Jay Orman Without. A 1/4 tsp of potato starch is so small I don't even notice it.

Incidentally, raw potato starch (in the 1-4 Tbsp range) has been used by a lot of people to treat gut dysbiosis. It preferentially feeds beneficial bacteria like akkermansia and (IIRC) lactobacillus plantarum. "FreeTheAnimal" blog was where I first heard about it, probably 5 or 6 years ago. Good luck!