Fisetin ( + quercitin)

Among flavonoids, fisetin appears to be an effective senolytic:

https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2018/10/animal-data-shows-fisetin-to-be-a-surprisingly-effective-senolytic/

"Fisetin appears about as effective in mice as any of the current top senolytics, such as the chemotherapeutics dasatinib and navitoclax."

Because it is cheaper, easier to acquire, and probably safer than dasatinib, self-experimenters should consider examining fisetin in combination with quercitin.

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  • How much fisetin is required? It seems to come in 100mg capsules.

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  • May clinic is performing a study on elderly subject, and using two grams of fisetin on two separate days. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03430037?cond=fisetin&cntry=US&draw=1&rank=2

    I utilized this protocol over three days, one longer than the study.  My observations other that slight malaise I did not notice any definable improvements.  Of course I did not take Quercertin with it.   I have just finished the first round of C+D, and describe the process under the C+D section of this site.  I obtained Fisetin from Trillium Health Solutions, 50 gram powder with 50 servings.  They supply a small one gram spoon.  I mix two spoonfuls in a warm glass of water and take on an empty stomach.  No too bad tasting. 

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      • Rob8311
      • Rob8311
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      David Michel Not sure that trying to notice how you feel is the best course.  I just had blood taken and want to see liver values change (ALT, AMY, ALKP) because fisetin helps with liver oxidative stress, and also a decrease in systemic inflammation (measured by CRP, C-Reactive Protein).  If we can see evidence that our organs are in better shape, that's a big plus.  Two grams 2x looks reasonable.  I have been watching some friends take bottles of 100mg fisetin and can't help but think their results (mild but positive) are suggestive of doses that are too conservative. I wouldn't be surprised if more is better.  Most fisetin out there is Novusetin by Cyvex, so whether you get Doctor's Best or Swanson you are basically getting the same stuff.  Incidentally, my two elderly dogs (who have also had blood drawn prior) have shown slightly more energy, mobility, and calmness (and slight stomach upset) after 800mg fisetin over 3 days.  Doing another course now with them and will check blood values for all of us in a month or so.  A friend recommended LE CRP and chem/CBC blood tests.  I can afford those but not the recommended $695 tests.

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      • Rob8311
      • Rob8311
      • 3 wk ago
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       Rob8311 Is the Trillium 50g of fisetin?  It says it is 5 herbs.

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      • djmichel
      • CDR Phx
      • djmichel
      • 3 wk ago
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      Rob8311 My Trillium Fisetin does not indicate 5 herbs,  it does say it is from Gleditsia thorn  powder. 

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      • djmichel
      • CDR Phx
      • djmichel
      • 3 wk ago
      • 1
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      Rob8311 Yes I agree with you, it would be nice to be able to afford all the recommended tests.  However I will, as you, have to follow my normal every six months test that my Doctor will recommend.  But because I can't afford a regular regime of 700 dollar tests, and hoping that I will be selected for some study is unreasonable to me, so I cautiously self experiment after reading all I can and approaching with an open mind.   While I have recently tried several protocols I do wonder if there is some synergistic effect.   I have recently noticed very positive results from my D+C protocol last month. 

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      • Rob8311
      • Rob8311
      • 3 wk ago
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      David Michel  Guess I looked up the wrong one, sorry.  Great to know you had a good result from D+Q, the next thing I will try.  I wonder if using BioPerine to boost bioavailability would help with fisetin.  It is used with the flavonoid curcumin.

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    • djmichel Note the stuff from Trillium is not 100% fisetin, but raw fisetin-containing herb (Gleditsia thorn powder). It might be anywhere from 10% to 50% fisetin. Or less than 10%, since Trillium doesn't actually test it, and it's not standardized. It's a rather severe case of "deception by unclear labeling."

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      • djmichel
      • CDR Phx
      • djmichel
      • 5 days ago
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      Steve Harris Thanks for the info....do you have another source?

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    • djmichel Not immediately. I had been using Swanson's, but that's already been mentioned.

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    • Rob8311 You're a bold man feeding that much bioflavonoid to a dog. Dog's don't have primate livers, and things like chocolate are quite toxic for them. It's hard to know what a dog's metabolism is going to do with a basic plant extract.

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      • Rob8311
      • Rob8311
      • 4 days ago
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      Steve Harris If you are implying I am bold because there was no risk to me, or assuming I didn't consider toxicity before trying this, your point would have been equally effective without the sarcasm.  I read everything I could get my hands on, consulted with an expert in the senolytic field, and agonized over the dosage.  There seems little point in taking a risk with a dose which will make you wonder later on whether you gave enough to make a difference.  Since animal data was what started the interest in fisetin, primate comparisons don't seem applicable.  Also, do you know what a large amount of bioflavonoid is?  I spend countless hours looking into ways to keep my dogs youthful, and since they are 15 and 16 with an expected lifespan of about 13, I might be doing OK.  Some possible fisetin benefits I weighed against the risk:  heart health, improvements in throat tissue, healthier kidneys, healthier skin, better immune system without senescent T cells, less systemic inflammation, and less oxidative stress on the liver (mentioned in the latest study), to name just a few.  So far I have noticed they have a mild increase in energy and mobility and fast hair regrowth.  I had blood data taken from both dogs before fisetin that I will be comparing against soon.

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    • Rob8311 I mean "bold" by feeding some stuff to your dogs which has never been fed to dogs before (at least not in the recorded science literature--I cannot find one report of dogs and fisetin). You really need some regular lab tests (liver and kidney) and a dose-escalation study for that.

      Senolytics are from animal data, but those animals are RODENTS. Which are omnivores and famously capable of eating just about anything, quite like pigs and humans. But animals differ in their sensitivity to plant products, which is why rabbits and ruminants can feast on the nightshade plants and berries that would kill you or me. And humans and rodents can eat all the chocolate, garlic, onions, grapes and raisins that we like, and we have a good tolerance to ethanol, but these things are toxic (sometimes astonishingly toxic) to meat-eating cats and dogs, which cannot easily metabolize things like thiosulfate, caffeine, theobromine, and the like.

      Here's another one: xylitol which is used as an artificial sweetener, is tolerated by rats and mice, who eat as much as they like. As do your kids on Halloween. But just a few candies can take out your dog.

      So you never know. Dogs cannot eat many raisins and grapes, but apparently tolerate grapeseed extract. And sillymarin and some citrus bioflavonoids. So you got away with fisetin, it appears. But don't ever think that just because rats eat something in a study, and you eat it in unregulated pills from the supplement company, that you can feed the stuff to Rover. Next time, especially with plant-based products, you may guess wrong.

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      • Rob8311
      • Rob8311
      • 4 days ago
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      Steve Harris Sorry if I overreacted, and I appreciate your concern for my dogs.  However, "got away with fisetin" doesn't describe the situation for me.  My view of old age is there is less to lose and more to gain with experimentation.  We should set our risk levels according to our philosophy of life.  My dogs, fortunately or unfortunately for them, as my wards, will experience my level of risk.  I think a chance to recapture some lost youth is worth considerable risk when the alternative is an uncomfortable decline.  My dogs are at a very advanced age, but are surprisingly full of life because of some of the things I have tried.  We are at a point in history where to wait for studies to guide our choices will often mean missing opportunities completely.  It is possible I added 10% or more to their lifespan and improved their healthspan, which would be amazing. If they were younger it would be a different calculation.  Caution should inform our decisions, but at least for me should not be the only factor.

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  • I've been taking 1 quercetin and 1 fisetin in my daily supplement regime. I'm considering joining the self experimenters/testers here, but the problem is I wonder how much change I'll be able to show since I'm already doing many of these (e.g. NAD+, quercetin, fisetin, fasting, etc)

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  • And they used human adipose tissue explants (voluntary liposuction!) to see if results translated.  They did!

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  • Since BioPerine (black pepper extract piperine) supposedly increases bioavailability of curcumin (a flavonoid) by 2000% and resveratrol by 220%, it would seem to be a good idea to use with the flavonoid fisetin.  I am taking 500 mg fisetin with 10 mg BioPerine twice daily for a few days.  Warning:  don't take BioPerine with any drugs or substances you don't want to magnify.

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