Jimmy2 

    Viruses mutate in all directions, most of them fatal to the mutant, because there is no error-check mechanism in the replication process that viruses use.  I think the main change in the delta variant is that its victims shed 1000 times more virus particles, not that it is better at avoiding the immune system or the vaccine-generated antibodies.  However, other variants may very well mutate to avoid the antibodies.  My worry is that the delta variant will mutate in that direction.

JGC Please look into the research of Geert Vanden Bossche.  He is has a PhD in virology and has worked at GSK Biologicals, Novartis Vaccines, Solvay Biologicals, the Bill Gates Foundation, etc.

Some of his excerpts on Sept 17th:

"...infection with more infectious variants in vaccinees can be problematic from a public health viewpoint when occurring on a background of high vaccine coverage rates (due to mass vaccination!). This is because high vaccine coverage rates i) favor propagation of more infectious variants, which poses an indirect threat to the unvaccinated and ii) eventually causes growing resistance to S-specific antibodies."

"...if you didn’t contract Covid-19 in the past and you got fully vaccinated, you will (for now) be protected against (severe) disease. However, if your vaccination occurs as part of a mass vaccination campaign, you, together with all other vaccinees, will exert suboptimal immune selection pressure on viral infectiousness. This will expedite the further expansion of circulating, more infectious variants and eventually lead to dominant circulation of an immune escape variant that is both highly infectious and S-Ab-resistant."

He has written many posts in great detail about this if you look for it.

https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/post/repetitio-est-mater-studiorum

Jimmy2 

Here is another point of view: https://www.deplatformdisease.com/blog/addressing-geert-vanden-bossches-claims

Also it should be noted that at the time the delta variant emerged in India, the vaccination rate was extremely low, below 4%. So doesnt that contradict his theory? Shouldnt delta have arisen in the US?

chuck stanley That was in March.  A lot of new data has come up.

Jimmy2 

    It's sort of obvious that if a large fraction of the population is vaccinated, the mutations that prosper will be those that best avoid the vaccine-generated antibodies.  That's true of all virus diseases, including polio, influenza, ...  That doesn't mean we should discourage vaccination.  It isn't clear whether a corona virus could exist that doesn't include the spike protein that is the target on the current mRNA vaccines.

    Further, with modern mRNA technology the labs could sequence such a mutant, target a new spike protein, and go into mRNA vaccine production very rapidly.  The only hitch would be that the FDA would require many months of testing of the new vaccine, even though the only change was in the mRNA coding.   I think that's a bad policy, and that an exception should be made if minor alterations of mRNA coding is the only change.

JGC If a stain that is even more contagious than the Delta emerges, it may force mass vaccination to be re-examined.  Right now there are three American vaccines, one Russian, and one Chinese?  All of them combined, theoretically, could produce an even more infectious stains.

Jimmy2 

    I'm not familiar with what the targets are for the British, Russian, Indian, Chinese ... vaccines or how they work.  I think most use either adenovirus DNA delivery or killed viruses.  These difference can be viewed as an advantage, because a mutant that develops resistance to one vaccine type is probably NOT resistant to the others.

JGC The vaccinated are breeding grounds for for more infectious variants.  You argue the spike protein as it it were a binary problem.  If it were the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine would be identical.  Instead, we know the Moderna vaccine is is more effective for the Delta variant, because it was created by a different manufacturer which could have isolated the spike protein in a different manner resulting in increased effectiveness.  The virus contains thousands of atoms.  Again, however, the vaccinated are breeding grounds for more virulent strains.  Viral resistance to vaccines will be expedited with boosters and campaigns for vaccinations with younger age groups.

Jimmy2 

    Pfizer and Moderna use different mRNA codes and generate somewhat different spike protein replicas.  Apparently, Moderna's target protein is contained in more of the variants. 

Jimmy2 exactly. also, blood analyze of the vaccinated shows that the blood platlets colapses .... so we are looking at death thats never been seen in a few years. and the goverment will blame it on a "new strain"

Burgundy Summer source?

Jimmy2 To put this in perspective:

"HEART inflammation triggered by some covid-19 vaccines has been a concern, especially in younger people, but a preliminary study suggests that in those most affected, it is six times more likely to occur after a coronavirus infection than after vaccination.

In the past few months, some cases of this condition, known as myocarditis, have been recorded following the use of the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines. This has prompted concern particularly in the US and Israel, as these two countries have led the way in vaccinating younger people.

The reaction happens most often in men and boys aged under 30 after their second dose, and is usually seen within 10 days, says Alma Iacob at Imperial College London. But many health bodies around the world say the benefits of vaccination still outweigh the risks for most people.

Now a study in the US has analysed how often myocarditis occurs following infection with the coronavirus. Researchers analysed the records of healthcare organisations that cover a fifth of the US population. They found that, during the first 12 months of the pandemic, males aged 12 to 17 were most likely to develop myocarditis within three months of catching covid-19, at a rate of about 450 cases per million infections.

This compares with 67 cases of myocarditis per million males of the same age following their second dose of a Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, according to figures from the US Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Researchers added together cases after first and second doses to reach a total rate of 77 cases per million in this male age group triggered by vaccination, a sixth that seen after infection."

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/

Dan Nave In regards to “side effects “ of the vaccine, the rate is 5-10 fold worse with the infection.