'Mandated Gov Vax or get fired' I'm one of them. Which one is the least toxic in the long run to our longevity path..? Thanks

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  • No data exists on the impact of "longevity path".  I haven't gotten a flu shot since 2011.  Only ill once with cold/flu since then.  I have no chronic issues such as RA, diabetes, etc., no prescription meds.  I'm in excellent health.  I subscribe to JAMA weekly updates.  My decision based on potential severe health impacts was to get the vaccine.  I got Moderna, wife got Pfizer.  Only symptom we got was mild fatigue lasting about 12 hours.  Weigh your own circumstances then decide.  Take Care.

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  •     Let's look at it logically.  The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines contain two main ingredients: (1) messenger RNA coded to cause the cell's ribosomes to assemble a replica of the COVID-19 spike protein and (2) a liposome "bubble" that surrounds and contains the mRNA and passes it through the cell wall.  Your body is processing trillions of such mRNA messages all the time, and there's no reason why this particular one should produce any long-term effects.  The spike protein set loose in the cell has a short half-life of a few hours and could not be expected to produce any long term effects.  The liposome is made of the same fatty molecules that form cell walls and could not be expected to produce any long term effects.

        On the other hand, COVID-19 has known "long-haul" effects in some infected and is known in many cases to cause long term damage to many organs, particularly the lungs, liver, kidneys, and heart.  It can also kill you, which is the ultimate long term effect.

        Therefore, it's no contest: GET VACCINATED!

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      • Deb63
      • Deb63
      • 2 mths ago
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      JGC I appreciate immensely.. Thank  you so much

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      • aribadabar
      • aribadabar
      • 2 mths ago
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      JGC That's a pretty cavalier take on a product that demonstrably crippled tens of thousands already.

      Actually, there IS a contest: If you are sub-50 and you are healthy, the vaccine won't help you much against COVID. It is not really a vaccine as it allows you to contract and transmit the virus once you are inoculated. It is an immunobooster (which comes with its own side effects) and nothing more.

      For someone like yourself who is in his 80s it may make sense , but for someone 45 and under it makes no sense gambling with this rushed product.

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    • aribadabar "demonstrably crippled tens of thousands"? I didnt know that. Could you please cite the source of that information?

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      • aribadabar
      • aribadabar
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      • aribadabar
      • aribadabar
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      chuck stanley MSM spread propaganda to whitewash the impact the so-called vaccines have on healthy people.

      Source: my lying eyes.

       

      P.S. Spare me any BS, OK?

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    • aribadabar NPR is rated as slightly left biased, so I would agree to discount their point of view. I am no fan of MSM. So I checked the views of media rated centrist by Allsides Media Bias ratings, Reuters and  Newsweek. They seem to agree that unverified reports on the VAERS are being used to spread anti-vax propaganda. I  take a  more moderate point of view.  I  think the reports of adverse events should be considered when weighing the evidence of risk with/ without the vaccine.  However, the statement that the vaccine has demonstrably crippled tens of thousands is not supported by any data I have seen.

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      • JGC
      • JGC
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      aribadabar 

           You should spare us your BS.  If the mRNA vaccines had "demonstrably crippled tens of thousands", the vaccines would never have made it past the FDA, which would certainly deny a permit under those circumstances.  I am not a fan of the FDA, but it is because it puts too many barriers in the way of effective drugs, resulting in unnecessary deaths from release delay.

          The thing that needs to be emphasized about the present COVID situation is that the rules have changed.  An individual who has caught the Delta Variant will shed 1,000 times more virus particles than was the case with the early variants.  The number of particles shed is one multiplicative term in a calculation of the probability of catching the virus.  Changing a multiplicative element by a factor of 1,000 will push the probability toward increasing by 1,000, unless some of the other terms go down.  This means that, integrated over the next few years, the probability of an unvaccinated person catching COVID is approaching 1.   Anyone who has not been vaccinated is almost certain to catch the virus and to pass it on to others, vaccinated or not.  Your fake news is going to kill people.

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      • Karl
      • Karl.1
      • 2 mths ago
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      JGC well explained.  Agree 100%

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  • OTOH - there is no drug that has had less testing and been used in FDA history

    I have zero fear of COVID

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      • JGC
      • JGC
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      Paul Beauchemin 

      You are entitled to your opinion, as long as it doesn't end by giving others COVID-19.  May the God of hubris leave you untouched.

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  • Based on data I have analyzed getting the vaccine reduces risk by 1% or less. I'm not anti-vax but want to wait until adequate data is available. Last weeks FDA discussion was pretty eye-opening regarding risks

    Biggest risk factors

    - low vitamin D

    -obesity 

    -comorbidities

    Of course, the problem is most Americans are overweight with poor metabolic health and low in Vitamin D

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      • JGC
      • JGC
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      Paul Beauchemin 

          You are saying that having COVID19 antibodies circulating in your bloodstream only reduces your chance of contracting the virus by 1%?  If you believe that, I have a lovely bridge between Brooklyn and NYC that you might be interested in buying.  In any case, why not get vaccinated AND maintain a good BMI and take vitamin D?  That's my approach.

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      • BobM
      • BobM
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      Paul Beauchemin 

      sorry Paul, I’m having real trouble with your 1% conclusion on this one.

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    • BobM Its the difference between absolute risk and relative risk

      Two people exposed to the virus - one with vaccine one without

      In this case, according to Pfizer's data relative risk of non-vaccinated getting sick is anywhere from 60%-80% higher depending on what data is presented. Some vaccines claim even better relative risk numbers.

      However, overall, my risk of getting sick in the general population is only 0.84-1.0 % less than a vaccinated person - this is absolute risk. For example, if 30% of the vaccinated population gets Covid, 31% of the non-vaccinated will get it.

      These vaccines don't offer immunity.

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    • Paul Beauchemin 

      That is very enlightening. Thanks for the explanation. I am quite surprised at how little benefit the vaccinations actually provide in terms of risk of infection. 

      Would it be fair to ask your calculation of relative risk of ending up in ICU or dying if you are infected as compared to someone who was vaccinated? And is there a way to calculate your absolute risk of ICU or dying?

      For me,  I think those additional calculations would provide a better perspective, though I suppose one should also take into account the loss of effectiveness over time.

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    • chuck stanley Actually, I mis-stated the endpoints of the trials. These numbers were relative and absolute risk of hospitalization - not catching the disease. Concept is still the same.

      Two other factors are important

      - testing was done on younger, healthier population than those most at risk

      -the efficacy of the vaccines seems to diminish considerably after 6-8 months, hence the debate on boosters.

      In my mind, best course of action is to get yourself metabolically healthy and increase Vitamin D levels. I keep mine between 60-80 ng/ml.

      But much easier to tell the masses to take an untested vaccine than to take away their donuts and send them to the gym.

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    • JGC Don't know where you are getting that idea.

      Referring to the difference between absolute risk and relative risk

      Two people exposed to the virus - one with vaccine one without

      In this case, according to Pfizer's data relative risk of non-vaccinated getting hospitalized is anywhere from 60%-80% higher depending on what data is presented. Some vaccines claim even better relative risk numbers.

      However, overall, my risk of getting hospitalized in the general population is only 0.84-1.0 % less than a vaccinated person - this is absolute risk. For example, if 30% of the vaccinated population gets Covid, 31% of the non-vaccinated will get it.

      These vaccines don't offer immunity. These numbers were for younger, healthier population in the trials - not for those most at risk.Their effectiveness decreases substantially over time.

      My experience working with the government ( interfaced with the EPA for 5 years when I worked for a large chemical corp) is that government employees have a level of incompetence and smugness about their positions that defy reality. The constant change of position by government officials during this pandemic has totally destroyed their credibility IMO.

      Seems to me that those who unquestionably take this vaccine have already bought that bridge in Brooklyn.

      You can chose your path, I'll chose mine thankyou.

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      • JGC
      • JGC
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      Paul Beauchemin 

          The Delta Variant causes the infected to shed around 1,000 times more virus particles than do the earlier variants.  That makes Delta up to 1,000 times more contagious.  The Pfizer data was based on the earlier variants.  Therefore, your 1% estimate is suspect.

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    • JGC you criticized others in this thread for spreading BS but you are guilty of same

      "New data was released by the CDC showing that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant can carry detectable viral loads similar to those of people who are unvaccinated,"

      There is no scientific way for anyone to validate your claim. Spreading this type of info is why so many are hesitant to take the vaccine

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      • JGC
      • JGC
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      Paul Beauchemin  

          You are doubting that the Delta Variant causes those infected to shed 1,000 times more virus particles than earlier variants?  See this LINK.  Also, I have heard Fauchi and other virus specialist quote this characteristic of the Delta Variant during interviews.  It accounts for its rapid spread.  Your quote has nothing to do with the quantity of virus shed.

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    • JGC Right...I looked at that and it is nonsense. An anecdote at best.  As far as Fauci - he represents all that is wrong with government - incompetent, arrogant and a liar par excellence saying what ever serves his purpose at the moment.

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    • JGC I read this study - this 1000 x figure has to do with Delta variant supposedly being more contagious. No doubt that is true (whether its 1000x is debatable since they are inferring that from a PCR test, not real contagion)  since that is what viruses do.

      Nothing to do with vaccine

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      • JGC
      • JGC
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      Paul Beauchemin 

          It has to do with the probability of the general population catching the virus, and this was the thing on which you were basing your arguments, based on data that was gathered before the Delta Variant existed.

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  • The FDA voted last week that the booster shot was not necessary for the general public.  The vote was 16-2.  However, they recently voted booster shots may be necessary for the elderly.

    There is great concern about the virus mutating.  I've been reading that viruses are supposed to get weaker, not stronger over time.  This has happened throughout history.  The Delta variant is a stronger Covid-19 mutated virus.  So, scientists are now hypothesizing that the Covid vaccines are causing covid to mutate to become stronger.  Why?  Well, the vaccines are only offering narrow protection, and the virus mutates, to circumvent the protective antigens offered by the vaccines.  Natural immunity, however, seems to offer a more general protection that would even protect against the Delta variant.

    It is now known that Pfizer is weaker than Moderna in terms of general protection.

    Other countries like India and El Salvador are offering covid kits with zinc, ivermectin, vitamin c, etc. that are distributed to those with covid and their families.  This is not reported in the US mainstream news.

    I already got my two shots.  At this point I will not get any booster shot.  The mass distribution of vaccines may have caused the Delta mutation itself.

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      • JGC
      • JGC
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      Jimmy2 

          Viruses mutate in all directions, most of them fatal to the mutant, because there is no error-check mechanism in the replication process that viruses use.  I think the main change in the delta variant is that its victims shed 1000 times more virus particles, not that it is better at avoiding the immune system or the vaccine-generated antibodies.  However, other variants may very well mutate to avoid the antibodies.  My worry is that the delta variant will mutate in that direction.

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      • Jimmy2
      • Jimmy2
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      JGC Please look into the research of Geert Vanden Bossche.  He is has a PhD in virology and has worked at GSK Biologicals, Novartis Vaccines, Solvay Biologicals, the Bill Gates Foundation, etc.

      Some of his excerpts on Sept 17th:

      "...infection with more infectious variants in vaccinees can be problematic from a public health viewpoint when occurring on a background of high vaccine coverage rates (due to mass vaccination!). This is because high vaccine coverage rates i) favor propagation of more infectious variants, which poses an indirect threat to the unvaccinated and ii) eventually causes growing resistance to S-specific antibodies."

      "...if you didn’t contract Covid-19 in the past and you got fully vaccinated, you will (for now) be protected against (severe) disease. However, if your vaccination occurs as part of a mass vaccination campaign, you, together with all other vaccinees, will exert suboptimal immune selection pressure on viral infectiousness. This will expedite the further expansion of circulating, more infectious variants and eventually lead to dominant circulation of an immune escape variant that is both highly infectious and S-Ab-resistant."

      He has written many posts in great detail about this if you look for it.

      https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/post/repetitio-est-mater-studiorum

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    • Jimmy2 

      Here is another point of view: https://www.deplatformdisease.com/blog/addressing-geert-vanden-bossches-claims

      Also it should be noted that at the time the delta variant emerged in India, the vaccination rate was extremely low, below 4%. So doesnt that contradict his theory? Shouldnt delta have arisen in the US?

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      • Jimmy2
      • Jimmy2
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      chuck stanley That was in March.  A lot of new data has come up.

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      • JGC
      • JGC
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      Jimmy2 

          It's sort of obvious that if a large fraction of the population is vaccinated, the mutations that prosper will be those that best avoid the vaccine-generated antibodies.  That's true of all virus diseases, including polio, influenza, ...  That doesn't mean we should discourage vaccination.  It isn't clear whether a corona virus could exist that doesn't include the spike protein that is the target on the current mRNA vaccines.

          Further, with modern mRNA technology the labs could sequence such a mutant, target a new spike protein, and go into mRNA vaccine production very rapidly.  The only hitch would be that the FDA would require many months of testing of the new vaccine, even though the only change was in the mRNA coding.   I think that's a bad policy, and that an exception should be made if minor alterations of mRNA coding is the only change.

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      • Jimmy2
      • Jimmy2
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      JGC If a stain that is even more contagious than the Delta emerges, it may force mass vaccination to be re-examined.  Right now there are three American vaccines, one Russian, and one Chinese?  All of them combined, theoretically, could produce an even more infectious stains.

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      • JGC
      • JGC
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      Jimmy2 

          I'm not familiar with what the targets are for the British, Russian, Indian, Chinese ... vaccines or how they work.  I think most use either adenovirus DNA delivery or killed viruses.  These difference can be viewed as an advantage, because a mutant that develops resistance to one vaccine type is probably NOT resistant to the others.

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      • Jimmy2
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      JGC The vaccinated are breeding grounds for for more infectious variants.  You argue the spike protein as it it were a binary problem.  If it were the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine would be identical.  Instead, we know the Moderna vaccine is is more effective for the Delta variant, because it was created by a different manufacturer which could have isolated the spike protein in a different manner resulting in increased effectiveness.  The virus contains thousands of atoms.  Again, however, the vaccinated are breeding grounds for more virulent strains.  Viral resistance to vaccines will be expedited with boosters and campaigns for vaccinations with younger age groups.

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      • JGC
      • JGC
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      Jimmy2 

          Pfizer and Moderna use different mRNA codes and generate somewhat different spike protein replicas.  Apparently, Moderna's target protein is contained in more of the variants. 

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  • Everyone will “get” Covid at some point.  So make an informed decision about whether you want to meet Covid with or without the protection of a vaccine.  Any “side effect” is far more likely from Covid than from the vaccines. 
    You can validate almost any point of views by using statistics or language in a certain manor. 

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  • Here's a good reason to get vaccinated rather than chance immunization from infection by Covid-19.

    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-09-links-severe-covid-self-attacking-antibodies.html

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  • From Twitter, “In Israel, vaccinated individuals had 27 times higher risk of symptomatic COVID infection compared to those with natural immunity from prior COVID disease [95%CI:13-57, adjusted for time of vaccine/disease]. No COVID deaths in either group.”


    Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.”

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

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      • Mr. Joules
      • Mr_Joules
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      Jimmy2 exactly. also, blood analyze of the vaccinated shows that the blood platlets colapses .... so we are looking at death thats never been seen in a few years. and the goverment will blame it on a "new strain"

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      • Jimmy2
      • Jimmy2
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      Mr. Joules source?

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  • Rapamycin seems to be a candidate for COVID-19 therapy . 
    It is also likely that its effectiveness will not be reduced by the high rate of viral RNA mutation. 

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  • The information I am about to post has been banned in many, many places.  Therefore, I won’t explain. Read and do your on research:

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.03.21256520v1

    ”The response of innate immune cells to TLR4 and TLR7/8 ligands was lower after BNT162b2 vaccination, while fungi-induced cytokine responses were stronger. In conclusion, the mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine induces complex functional reprogramming of innate immune responses, which should be considered in the development and use of this new class of vaccines.”


    Research into what happens with lower responses into TLR4.

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  • For how long after vaccination?  And how does this compare to response after infection with Covid-19 which we will all be eventually exposed to?...

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  • Moderna vaccine now halted in Finland and some other European countries for people under 30 for possibly causing heart issues:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-pauses-use-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-young-men-2021-10-07/
     

    The US has been in denial with all the censorship.

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      • Dan Nave
      • Dan_Nave
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      Jimmy2 To put this in perspective:

      "HEART inflammation triggered by some covid-19 vaccines has been a concern, especially in younger people, but a preliminary study suggests that in those most affected, it is six times more likely to occur after a coronavirus infection than after vaccination.

      In the past few months, some cases of this condition, known as myocarditis, have been recorded following the use of the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines. This has prompted concern particularly in the US and Israel, as these two countries have led the way in vaccinating younger people.

      The reaction happens most often in men and boys aged under 30 after their second dose, and is usually seen within 10 days, says Alma Iacob at Imperial College London. But many health bodies around the world say the benefits of vaccination still outweigh the risks for most people.

      Now a study in the US has analysed how often myocarditis occurs following infection with the coronavirus. Researchers analysed the records of healthcare organisations that cover a fifth of the US population. They found that, during the first 12 months of the pandemic, males aged 12 to 17 were most likely to develop myocarditis within three months of catching covid-19, at a rate of about 450 cases per million infections.

      This compares with 67 cases of myocarditis per million males of the same age following their second dose of a Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, according to figures from the US Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Researchers added together cases after first and second doses to reach a total rate of 77 cases per million in this male age group triggered by vaccination, a sixth that seen after infection."

      https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/

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  • Removing Spike Proteins, Eliminating Graphene Oxide, Reversing MRNA Damage, & More W/ Dr. Nieusma

    https://content.blubrry.com/business_game_changers/Joe_Nieusma_9-16-21_podcast.mp3

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  • I think that administering covid vaccines before they were sufficiently tested was a mistake. This will compromise trust in real vaccines, and in years to come, this mistrust will take many victims. Much more than covid 19 :(

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  • How does this compare to actually getting infected with Covid-19?

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      • Karl
      • Karl.1
      • 1 mth ago
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      Dan Nave In regards to “side effects “ of the vaccine, the rate is 5-10 fold worse with the infection.

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      • Dan Nave
      • Dan_Nave
      • 1 mth ago
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      Karl That sounds like balderdash...

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