Spermidine: a physiological autophagy inducer acting as an anti-aging vitamin inhumans?

My wife and I eat natto (fermented soybeans) daily which contains a relatively large amount of spermidine.

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Spermidine: a physiological autophagy inducer acting as an anti-aging vitamin inhumans?

Autophagy. 2019; 15(1): 165–168.

Published online 2018 Oct 11. doi: 10.1080/15548627.2018.1530929

ABSTRACT

Spermidine is a natural polyamine that stimulates cytoprotective macroautophagy/autophagy. External supplementation of spermidine extends lifespan and health span across species, including in yeast, nematodes, flies and mice. In humans, spermidine levels decline with aging, and a possible connection between reduced endogenous spermidine concentrations and age-related deterioration has been suggested. Recent epidemiological data support this notion, showing that an increased uptake of this polyamine with spermidine-rich food diminishes overall mortality associated with cardiovascular diseases and cancer. Here, we discuss nutritional and other possible routes to counteract the age-mediated decline of spermidine levels.

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Another article:

Cardioprotection and lifespan extension by the natural polyamine spermidine

Nat Med. 2016 December ; 22(12): 1428–1438. doi:10.1038/nm.4222.

AbstractAging is associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease and death. Here we show that oral supplementation of the natural polyamine spermidine extends the lifespan of mice and exerts cardioprotective effects, reducing cardiac hypertrophy and preserving diastolic function in old mice. Spermidine feeding enhanced cardiac autophagy, mitophagy and mitochondrial respiration, and it also improved the mechano-elastical properties of cardiomyocytes in vivo, coinciding with increased titin phosphorylation and suppressed subclinical inflammation. Spermidine feeding failed to provide cardioprotection in mice that lack the autophagy-related protein Atg5 in cardiomyocytes. In Dahl salt-sensitive rats that were fed a high-salt diet, a model for hypertension-induced congestive heart failure, spermidine feeding reduced systemic blood pressure, increased titin phosphorylation and prevented cardiac hypertrophy and a decline in diastolic function, thus delaying the progression to heart failure. In humans, high levels of dietary spermidine, as assessed from food questionnaires, correlated with reduced blood pressure and a lower incidence of cardiovascular disease. Our results suggest a new and feasible strategy for the protection from cardiovascular disease

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  • Thank you David. I think spermidine needs a thread on its own. I started with spermidine one week ago so it is too early to say anything about it besides the acute effects. I practice intermittent fasting and lunch is my first meal of the day. I exercise in the mornings. I mostly run and do some exercises for strength. My “acute” experiences of spermidine this far are that I have gotten much more sore in my q-ceps after intense running.

     

    This is an experience that I only have gotten before when I have combined intense exercise with an El Mayo style Fisetin session.

     

    I speculate that this soreness after intense exercise might be related to increased autophagy. I have previously exchanged similar kind of thoughts related to the use of fisetin with @david_c

     

    I will keep posting my thoughts and my experiences of spermidine in this thread.

     

    May I ask what brand of Spermidine you use now. Are you still using Primeadine?

    Like
      • David H
      • David_Hanson
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      Staffan Olsson I am using Primeadine and my wife will start using Primeadine soon, as soon as she finishes our supply of spermidine life. Our youngest son is also taking Primeadine, which we bought for him.

      Like 1
    • David H Now I have been eating spermidine capsules for approx 6 weeks. Brand - Aenutri 1 mg/day. I am 58.

       

      If someone decide to start with spermadine, I would suggest to take pictures of hair and nose. This because I think I have gotten less grey hair since I started with spermadine. I would love if I had taken "before" pictures. Placebo? Honestly I dont know.  Btw, I have thin very short hair, 2-4 mm.

       

      I have also noticed that the pores on my nose  seem less visable or smaller. And I do not do any other treatments focusing on skin or hair. 

       

      I would love to hear from people that start eating spermadine. Are my observations unique?

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      • MAC
      • MAC
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      Staffan Olsson I added Spermidine to my stack about a year ago.

      https://lzrlabs.net/order-37061865

      My hair is far less grey than my peer male friends my age, but hard to associate it with Spermidine, genetics, or the buffet of other interventions undertaken.

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    • Staffan Olsson I agree I also *think* I have darker hair, and I have some very slight hair regrowth. But by the time I noticed this AKG and NAD boosters are also in the mix with spermidine so I cannot pick the agent apart from these others.

      Like 1
    • Jack Black 

      Thank you for your feedback on spermidine.   

       

      Yes, I have noticed a minor hair rejuvenation. A few days ago my daughter said “I see more hair growing on your head”. Besides myself, my daughter is probably the only one that has noticed this effect.  So the effect I notice is not a meaningful change in my appearance.  

       

      I see some research indicating that the effect that I experience is a real effect and not a creation of my imagination.  

       

      Spermidine Promotes Human Hair Growth and Is a Novel Modulator of Human Epithelial Stem Cell Functions (nih.gov).

       

      Novel aspects of age-protection by spermidine supplementation are associated with preserved telomere length | SpringerLink

       

      I have been on spermidine for a few months. I must mention that I have also included AKGy, but in the form of Arginine Alpha-ketoglutarate. (I intend stop taking AAKG and start with Creatine Alpha-ketoglutarate instead).

       

      BTW my experiment with AAKG have resulted in Increased muscle strength, especially when I take it in combination with citrulline. (3-4 gr of each).

      Like 1
  • Em Mmn

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  •     I've been looking into obtaining a Spermidine supplement on the Internet.  (I had previously bought a rather expensive one that doesn't actually state how much Spermidine is in it.)  I have tabulated my search results on the following spreadsheet, where "Conc" means Spermidine content of one capsule:

    Brand Product # mg Conc (mg) Price
    SuperSmart Spermidine 60 150 1.50 $89.00
    Lekithos Spermidine 120 525 0.18 $59.99
    Primeadine Spermidine 90 300 0.33 $95.00
    Swanson Wheat Germ Oil 60 1130 3.28 $4.83

        Swanson does not promote the Spermidine concentration of their Wheat Germ Oil supplement, but after consulting with their Customer Support group, I concluded that it should be about 3.3 mg per cap.  I just ordered 5 bottles.

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    • JGC Great research John. Whats suspiciously absent with all this promotion of spermidine benefits lately is dosage. I suspect this means most products arent supplying an effective dose so they leave that part out. I have done a little bit of research but not turning up much, perhaps we don't really know yet and things are simply not firmed up yet. Do you have any guidance on dose?

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      • JGC
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      Fred Cloud 

          I looked at an article in Nature Medicine on the effects of Spermidine on heart health and longevity in mice and also at the Supplementary Information that is linked to the paper.  For some reason, the authors never give any indication of how much Spermidine they are actually giving the "Spermidine" mice they are treating.  They do say that Spermidine is added to the drinking water, so perhaps the dose depends on how much the mice drink.  The Supplement goes into how much polyamine (i.e. Spermidine and related compounds) is in different foods (with wheat germ as highest at 2,440 nmol/g), but it isn't specified how much of what the mice are eating.

          The pill peddlers seem to want you to take enough of their capsules per day to get about 3 mg or so of Spermidine.  That matches well with the estimated content of one Swanson Wheat Germ Oil capsule, so we will probably take one of those every evening at dinner.

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      • JGC
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      Fred Cloud 

          I improved my spreadsheet with more suppliers, links to them, and an extra column giving the price per mg that each one is selling their Spermidine for, sorted from highest to lowest.  The LRZ Labs product (which we have been taking recently) doesn't give their Spermidine content, so I estimated it.  The SuperSmart product uses rice extract rather than wheat germ and claims to have "standardized" it to 1% Spermidine.

       

      Brand

       

      Product Name

       

      #

      Total

      (mg)

      Spermidine

      (mg)

       

      Price

       

      $/mg

      Oxford Healthspan Primeadine Spermidine 90 300 0.33 $90.00 $3.03
      Lekithos Spermidine 120 525 0.18 $59.99 $2.78
      Longevity Labs SpermidineLIFE 60 800 1.00 $99.00 $1.65
      LRZ Labs Ultra-Spermidine 40 700 0.80 (est) $43.97 $1.37
      SuperSmart Spermidine 60 150 1.50 $89.00 $0.99
      Swanson Wheat Germ Oil 60 1130 3.28 $3.56 $0.02

              As for dosage, I found an NIH Trial entitled "Polyamine-enriched Diet in Healthy Older Adults With Subjective Cognitive Decline (preSmartAge)" in which the human trial subjects are being given either 750 mg of polyamine-rich plant extract per day or the same amount of potato starch as a placebo.  That's roughly equivalent to the capsule content of the products above.

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    • JGC 

      I found this, it’s in German and it shows great variability when it comes to spermadine content.

      Can it be spermadine life promoting their own brand?  If it is part of a promoation then the question is if the promotion is done in an unethical way?

       

      Spermidingehalt von Weizenkeim-Produkten - spermidin.health

       

      I have not yet bought spermadine life. But that’s the one I consider to be my next spermadine product. They have good scientific backing and they rely on cooperation with a few universities. 

       

      Science • Spermidine LIFE

       

      but I would really like to find a cheaper alternative. 

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      • JGC
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      Staffan Olsson 

          Interesting writeup, but perhaps self-serving.

          The person I contacted in Swanson Customer Support did warn me that Swanson had never assayed the Spermidine content of their wheat germ oil.  The calculation from which the 3.28 mg estimate came used the Spermidine content of wheat germ, the fraction of oil extracted from the solid, and the oil content of the capsules.

          The implicit assumption was that all the Spermidine in solid wheat germ goes into the oil.  Does anyone know if that's a good assumption?  I note that Swanson's product is cold pressed, which might aid in retaining the Spermidine.

      Like 1
    • JGC I noticed that the folks over at Longecity experiment with dosages starting at 25mg/d all the way to 100mg/d from RPI Spermidine (which used to be for sale on Amazon).

      What you guys made you shoot for 3mg/d instead?

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      • JGC
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      aribadabar 

          Can you provide a link to the experiment that describes those doses?  I've had a lot of trouble finding such information, and the paper I did find (see above) used much smaller doses.

          Also, are you sure the 100 mg wasn't the dose of wheat germ extract containing a smaller amount of Spermidine?  As I said above, all of the commercial Spermidine pill peddlers are specifying daily Spermidine doses around 1-3 mg.

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    • JGC I was primarily referring to the discussion in this thread: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/63334-spermidine-trial/

       

      And here is a person doing 100mg/d for a year: https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/98495-im-ordering-spermidine/?view=findpost&p=902706

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      • JGC
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      aribadabar 

          OK, I looked at the thread.  While it's good that the adventurous guy who was taking 100 mg/day didn't suffer any bad side effects, he also "didn't notice anything" in the way of benefits.

          As somebody on the thread said, lower doses at the level of 1.5 to 6 mg/day have been reported to provide benefits.  Perhaps when our Wheat Germ Oil order arrives, we'll up the planned dosage to two caps per day with meals for 6.5 mg/day. 

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    • JGC To put things into perspective, 1mg spermidine is the amount in typical 5ml ejaculate (ostensibly a small amount of body fluid and therefore the optimal spermidine body content is a lot higher).

       

      The polyamine depletion with age  looks a bit more significant than 1-5mg/d could counteract.

      I don't think it is in the same league as Rapamycin where 1-2mg is the difference between goldilocks and overdosing (and it is showing definitively as canker sores)

      OTOH, spermidine can work quietly "behind the scenes" and since even 100mg/d didn't show any (even adverse) effects means that 1-5mg most probably won't do anything significant.

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    • JGC How does Swanson softgels compare with Swanson Wheat Germ Oil 16 oz for 14.31 on Amazon? The oil is viobin - cold processed, vs softgels - cold pressed. I assumed the processing included the pressing and so ordered the 16 oz bottle..

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      • Jay Orman
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      JGC I know this is an old post, but I'll still ask my question.  Where did you find information about the spermidine content of Swanson Wheat Germ Oil capsules to be around 3 mg?  I asked Swanson a few months ago about this, but never received an answer, and my research indicates that spermidine is not oil soluble.  Thanks.

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      • JGC
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      Jay Orman 

          OK, here's where my number of about 3 mg /cap came from.  In June 2021 I corresponded by email with one Mary L. , who is a Product Specialist for Swanson.  She wrote me the following:
      "Data online from multiple citations suggests that wheat germ has 243 mg spermidine/ kg of wheat germ.  This would be 0.243 mg spermidine/gram of wheat germ or 243 mcg spermidine per gram of wheat germ.  Online nutrition data suggests that wheat germ has 9.7 grams fat per 100 gram wheat germ.  This would be 0.097 grams or 97 mgs of  fat per 1 gram of  wheat germ .  Calculating spermidine percentage in wheat germ oil, using wheat germ data and oil content of wheat germ:
      (243 mcg spermidine / gram wheat germ )(1 gram wheat germ/97 mg fat) = 243 mcg spermidine/97 mg fat."

          The Swanson Wheat Germ Oil caps contain 1,310 mg of wheat germ fat.  From this, I calculate: 1,310 mg*(0.243 mg/97 mg) = 3.282 mg.  That means that the spermidine content of one Swanson cap should be about 3.28 mg.  Admittedly, that calculation assumes that all of the Spermidine in a gram of wheat germ is present in the 97 mg of wheat germ oil extracted from it, but I have no reason to believe that, if cold pressing works as described, that is not the case.

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      • Jay Orman
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      JGC Excellent answer.  Thanks.  

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      • JGC
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      Jay Orman 

          Oops!  I just looked at the bottle label, and Swanson's Wheat Germ Oil contains 1,130 mg of wheat germ oil (not 1,310 mg).  That calculates to 2.83 mg of Spermidine per capsule.  I guess that's still about 3 mg/cap, which is the number I stated.  Sorry for the digit transposition.

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      • Jay Orman
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      JGC Well, I've investigated this a few times over the last year, but I always hit the problem of spermidine not being oil soluble. So, I don't see how it could be present in wheat germ oil even if it is cold pressed. My latest check at Sigma Aldrich ( https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/deepweb/assets/sigmaaldrich/product/documents/867/781/s4139pis.pdf ) indicates that spermidine is soluble in water (50 mg/ml), ethanol, and ether which simply confirms what I've read before. It would be great to find a Certificate of Analysis that shows spermidine's presence in wheat germ oil, but I haven't found one of those. Of course, my thinking on this could certainly be wrong.

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      • JGC
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      Jay Orman 

          You may be right, and it's a question that can only be really answered by a chemical analysis.  My model is that in cold pressing, whatever liquid is in the wheat germ, mostly oil,  is collected, and spermidine comes out with the water-based part of that liquid.  If the collected liquid all goes into the capsules, then they should contain spermidine.  

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      • Fred Cloud
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      JGC John, why not buy the synthetic pure grade spermidine so you know exactly how much you are getting. I have been using it for months and it is much more effective than the wheat germ extract, my skin is noticeably better, mentally you can feel it and less inflammation, very effective and I am only taking 1 per day.

      5mg, 120 capsules, $36

      https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09NP4MPQB/

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      • JGC
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      Fred Cloud 

          Good suggestion!  The price comes to $0.03/mg of spermidine trihydrochloride.   This was not available when I made the table that is on this thread.  Anyhow, I just ordered two bottles.

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      • JGC
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      Fred Cloud 

          Actually, it's $0.06 per mg, because the caps only contain 5 mg of spermidine hydrochloride, with a "serving size" of two caps.  I really object to the serving-size games these supplement guys play.  It's deceptive advertising that ought to be illegal.

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      • Fred Cloud
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      JGC I agree, the serving size is a game, but the serving size is 10mg, so it is 5mg per cap. That is why I said 5mg per cap because it is confusing. Either way, just try the product, it works much better than the wheat germ. I havent even tried the 10mg per day yet because the 5mg is so effective.

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    • Fred Cloud  I use this brand

      Spermidine - Pure NMN and Resveratrol anti-aging Supplements (hansensupplements.com)

       

      (Pure spermidine 5% and cellulose 95%). 100 mg powder equals to 5 mg spermidine)

       

      I alos buy apigenin from them. I am happy so far. 

      Like 1
    • Staffan Olsson thanks for the link. Since cellulose doesnt readily dissolve, what have you found to be a convenient way to take the spermidine? How about the apigenin?

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    • chuck stanley I take the spermidine ( and apigenin) on a small measuring spoon and then I put it straight into my mouth and I also have some water water with it. 

      Like 1
  • I'm taking 4 tablespoons of wheat germ.  On the bag it says 1 tablespoon is 15g.  So the math says I am taking 3.645mg of spermidine per tablespoon of wheat germ for a total of 14.58mg per day.  I feel fine? 😆 

    Like 1
  • I've been taking in wheat germ for about a year.  I haven't felt any side effects or seen any beneficial effects.  However, something happened over the weekend.  I went on a 10 mile hike with 2500ft of elevation change.  The hike was about 7 hours and it was hot for half of it (about 80-85F degrees in the sun.)  I was wearing a hat that covered my entire face in shade and also had 30 SPF sunscreen on.  So the next day I look at my face in the mirror, and it seemed that my annoying acne scars on my forehead lightened significantly enough for me to notice!  I was expecting my forehead to look even more scarred because the potential sun penetrating the hat, the thin layer of sunscreen, and my skin, which would produce melanin and darken the scars.  Instead, the opposite happened.   Did the spermidine in combination with a grueling hike contribute to enhanced autophagy in the face?  I'm just wondering if anyone had a similar experience.  By the way, in the morning I ate a keto bar with 0g of sugar and 15g of carbs and 2 soft boiled eggs.   At the top of the mountain, I had about 26g of carbs (from a mixture of hashbrown, eggs, and sausage), turkey meat, and some 0 carb cheese crisps.  So it was somewhat low carb and my body was probably burning a lot of fat.

    Like 1
      • JGC
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      joseph mikhael 

          I'm not impressed with the Yurth interview.  She says you should get spermidine from wheat germ oil only if it is from non-GMO wheat.  That sounds like eco-superstitious BS to me.  Also, she does not make any distinction between cold-pressed wheat germ oil vs. other extraction methods.  Swanson's is cold-pressed, which I think is important because spermidine is highly soluble in water and easily washed away.

      Like 2
    • JGC Actually, there is no such thing as GMO wheat even available. 

      I am sure they are working on it, but as of now, there is no genetically modified wheat currently commercialized anywhere in the world.

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      • JGC
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      Fred Cloud 

          After they develop it, Yurth will ban it.

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  • looks like this is having an effect on someones bottom line - cannot buy Swanson wheat germ oil now on Amazon!

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  • I am wondering how spermidine compares to rapamycin? Does it do the same thing, is it a substitute or replacement for rapamycin, or does it offer benefits that rapamycin doesnt?

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  • In case you missed it, this spermidine video was aired this morning by Michael Lustgarten. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7lqncPch8c.

     He summarizes the studies that support the conclusion that it is primarily spermidine  which is the polyamine responsible for the beneficial cognitive and longevity benefits that have been demonstrated, and that spermidine is sufficient. Amounts of 1 mg/d are associated with cognitive benefits. The amount associated with life extension is about 12 mg per day. This amount could be obtained from 30 grams of wheat germ. I havent tried it, but that might be a little much to mix into a smoothie.

    Since spermidine is significantly reduced by cooking at higher temperatures, I'm still looking for a simple way to get 12 mg/d from natural sources.

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      • brad
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      chuck stanley  I would guess that cooking may increase spermidine, at least in some instances:

      "All cooking processes employed induced putrescine losses, either in organic or conventional vegetables, whereas the organic green beans had increased its spermidine content after cooking. "

      Source: HOW COOKING PROCESS CAN INFLUENCE POLYAMINES CONTENT IN FOODS? August 2014 Conference: Third International Conference on Polyamines: Biochemical, Physiological and Clinical Perspectives

      Like 1
  • I've been taking this Spermidine product for a couple of years now. https://lzrlabs.net/home-page

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    • MAC. any idea how much spermidine is in this product?

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  • This is what I have on file from vendor: 

    "One serving yields 1mg spermidine (some customers take up to 3 per day). Our matrix also contains several extracts from natural sources that act to support the autophagy or cell turnover promoted by spermidine and other senolytics. This greatly increases the positive effects of spermidine. Our goal with 1mg per capsule is to help people increase their daily Spermidine intake by ~15% without consuming excess calories to reach that level because maintaining a long term caloric surplus can accelerate aging drastically (exactly the opposite of what we're trying to do)."

    Like 1
  • JFYI today I ordered some 3mg caps from these guys; spermidinepro.com . Reason being the prior vendor I was using only had about 0.3 per cap for 2/3 the price! Will see what they're like when delivered.

    Like 1
  • It looks like getting 12mg per day of spermidine from a supplement would exceed my budget. 

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    • chuck stanley chuck stanley chuck stanley ?? At 0.02$ per mg (see JGC post above) it's pretty cheap. why are some sources so much more expensive? A 12oz bottle of Kretschmer wheat germ is 4.5$ iis good for > 10 days at 12mg per day.

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    • Donald Slowik I agree that $.02 per mg is quite cheap. I cant find any rationale for that figure, though. If you could link to any articles or analysis of cold pressed wheat germ oil that shows the amount of spermidine per gram, that would be a basis for estimating the cost per mg. 

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    • Donald Slowik 30 grams of raw wheat germ is a reasonably priced source of 12 mg spermidine, whereas the capsules are all too costly.

      I believe the trick will be to find a recipe that tastes good and doesnt require cooking at a high temperature. I'm going to try mixing into a smoothie (along with my creatine, Ca-AKG and protein).

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      • MAC.
      • MAC2
      • 9 mths ago
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      chuck stanley Rethinking, 1mg/day is indeed quite low AND the cost of the supplements. So I took a closer look at other Spermidine intake options, specifically food sourced. Besides wheat germ, Natto and Tempeh (Tempeh and wheat germ I wouldn't consume, full of carbs, I am ketogenic) and 1yr old cheddar are super content high food sources. I don't regularly eat soy products, but I do regularly eat hard cheese. So I bought myself some high quality Natto (comes in 50 g servings, readily consumable with a meal, approx 35 mg Spermidine), and some 18 month old cheddar (say 25 g serving, approx 50 mg Spermidine). Between these two readily added dietary inputs, I'd be taking in approx 85mg/day (+/-) JUST of Spermidine. But these foods deliver a huge spectrum of other polyamines (Spermine, Putriscine), as well as other super vitamins/nutrients. Ditching my supplement! I also eat many other high spermidine foods such as mushrooms. So I might be taking in near to 100 mg/day Spermidine with my whole foods diet. And you wonder why Japanese/Sardinians/Cretans live so long...high fermented soy and/or hard (ie fermented) cheese eaters.

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      • MAC.
      • MAC2
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      MAC. Higher spermidine intake is linked to lower mortality: a prospective population-based study

      https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/108/2/371/5046172

      "The difference in mortality risk between the top and bottom third of spermidine intakes was similar to that associated with a 5.7-y younger age"

      Like
    • @MAC.  thanks for the analysis. The 18 month cheddar sounds like a tasty solution! I've never had Natto, so I dont know if I'd like it. I'll post a recipe for a wheat germ smoothie if I come up with something worth sharing. I would like to see how your culinary adventure turns out.

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      • MAC.
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      • 9 mths ago
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      chuck stanley Natto is normally nasty...taste is not too difficult, but room temperature Natto odour (it comes frozen) is VERY strong. I let it defrost a bit, no palatability problem. Hard cheese is one of my favourite foods...and I've found some local sources of 4-5 yr old cheddar! This isn't much of a food "adventure", all readily adaptable to my daily diet protocol. Get the oldest orange cheese you can find. Wheat germ is high spermidine, but full of carbs/gluten, I avoid on my strict keto diet, and wonder if the heavy insoluble fibre load might create some gastro issues. But good luck! 

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    • MAC. My favourite food for increasing my intake of spermidine is mango. 150 gr Mango give me approx 5 mg spermidine. Broccoli is another good source (for me). A couple of mangos each week + plenty of broccoli and green peas in the diet should give me a reasonable intake of spermidine.  

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      • MAC.
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      Staffan Olsson Do you eat mushrooms, especially some of the more exotic varieties? They have the highest Spermidine levels of plant origin, save for wheat germ. Cooking does reduce the Spermidine level, so make sure you don't throw anything away! Buying dried exotic mushrooms, and adding to food, and ensuring you consume entire meal contents (Spermidine will be extracted in any liquid), is excellent way to spike Spermidine and flavour of course. 

      Like 1
    • MAC. I often eat dried shiitake, (usually in soups). But I don't know the spermidine content in shiitake or different kinds of mushrooms. 

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      • Jack Black
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      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      MAC. I have an easily accessible Japanese supermarket in town and get Natto there for Spermidine and Vitamin K. Not saying I love it, but then it isn't so bad either. Try to eat Natto once or twice a week, and these wheatgerm supplements on other days. Also foods like green peppers and broccoli. Did get the impression my hair got a bit darker and sprouted a few hairs when I specifically introduced Spermidine to my diet.

      Like
      • MAC.
      • MAC2
      • 9 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Staffan Olsson 

      Investigation of biologically active amines in some selected edible mushrooms

      https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jfca.2019.103375

      See attached. Please note in far right column, it's mg/100g, not mg/kg.

      There are some higher Spermidine species.

      Like 2
    • MAC. Many thanks :)

      Like
      • MAC.
      • MAC2
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Jack Black Yeah, Natto isn't so bad. I've had it 2 days in a row now, easily adaptable to diet. Darker hair, great! Nutrient dense whole foods rock. 

      Like
      • brad
      • brad.1
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      chuck stanley I eat it straight with cacao nibs.  For every two - three tablespoons of wheat germ, I add a tablespoon of cacao nibs. Since I eat that twice a day, it's pretty easy to get greater than 6 tablespoons of wheat germ per day.  I also like the taste, so it's an easy addition for me.

      Like
    • brad Since the wheat germ didnt work out for me as a smoothie additive, I still have it hanging around. I've never had cacao nibs. Its described as bitter... makes it sound sort of unappetizing. Is there common agreement that your wheat germ cacao mixture is a tasty solution? I wouldnt want to add a bag of nibs to the hanging around section of my kitchen. 

      Like
      • brad
      • brad.1
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      chuck stanley Ha.  It would likely be just another product hanging around. It is bitter.  I have gotten into the habit of eating it straight over the years. You  could likely fix the issue by throwing some type of sweetener into the mixture.  Though I suppose whatever sweetener you may use might have health detriments or benefits depending upon what it is and what you believe. 

      I  eat fruit, but I pretty much dropped all sweetening additives including natural ones except for getting a dessert one every six months or so that contains regular sugar.

      Like
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermidine#Sources list wheat germ at 243mg / kg. So $4.50 of wheat germ is 12oz = .34kg = 83mg of spermidine.

    Here's an article pointing out the apparently ridiculous prices for spermidine supplements: https://www.t-nation.com/alpha-life/the-nutrient-with-the-embarrassing-name/

    I have not found information on spermidine content of wheat germ oil. I assume that, per gm, it would be higher than the wheat germ as it is an extract. So 0.5kg of Swanson oil sells for $14.30 on amazon. Also, wondering the Kretschmer Original Toasted Wheat Germ is toasted at what temp and does that destroy Spermidine? their oil is cold processed so may be better?

    Like
      • brad
      • brad.1
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Donald Slowik  I have heard that spermidine is heat resistant.  Maybe Dr. Brad Stanfield said that. I can't recall who it was.  Anyway, cooking green beans appears to boost spermidine content in the beans.  I posted a link to a study in reply to another comment here.

       

      I can repeat it here though:

      "All cooking processes employed induced putrescine losses, either in organic or conventional vegetables, whereas the organic green beans had increased its spermidine content after cooking."

      See:HOW COOKING PROCESS CAN INFLUENCE POLYAMINES CONTENT IN FOODS?

      • August 2014

      DOI:10.13140/2.1.2910.6568

      Like
  • Spermidine. So, we now know why females outlast their male counterparts.

    What's next? Dingleberrydine?

    I love this community - just, not that much. 

     JC

    Like
  • In terms of supplements is there a reason that some people have chosen to not go the Swanson route? Just trying to understand what I'm missing.

    Like
    • Hello World meant to ask you the question if there was a daily amount of spermidine that you wanted to consume.

      Like
  • Hello World  I’m going the Swanson route with their Viobin cold processed wheat germ oil is even cheaper than the capsules. Plus some Kretchmers cereal. So also interested in answers to your question.

    Like
  • I've found that raw wheat germ is cheap, neutral tasting, and easily mixed into a smoothie.

    Like
  • I enjoy the taste of both the wheat germ cereal and their oil.

    Like
    • Donald Slowik was there a daily amount of spermidine that you wanted to consume? How much do you think you are getting from the oil and the cereal?

      Like
  • 24mg / 100 gm of wheat germ x 1/8 of 340gm jar of toasted wheat germ per day is about 10mg spermidina per day. Plus 1tblsp viobin oil is 15ml is 15 mg vit E -not sure how much spermidina in the oil though… 15 gms wheat germ has 2.8mg vitE == 18mg/100gm according to kretsctmer bottle, so spermidina/vitE about 1.2, i.e., 18mg spermidina assuming vitE/spermidina ratio same in wheat germ as in the oil extract. So thats 28mg per day(all mental arithmetic here..). What are clinically effective doses?

    Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Donald Slowik You used to be able to purchase research grade pure free base spermidine on amazon until someone burned a whole in their tongue with it.

      Like
      • brad
      • brad.1
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Fred Cloud People with holes in their tongues ruined it for everyone. If it could also disintegrate teeth, perhaps that could assist with less food consumption and consequently result in calorie restriction.

       I just bought the wheat germ though and never planned to take isolated spermidine.

      Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      brad Update, that was the freebase that burned a hole, now there is spermidine trichloride and you can get it in capsules mixed with filler and is safe and super effective.

      So the wheat germ is obsolete, get this instead, its way more potent. You can see changes in your skin and how you feel way more than the wheat germ products.

      https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09NP4MPQB/

      Like 1
  • I think you may be overestimating the amount of spermidine you are actually getting. It is reported that heating spermidine above 100 Celsius will reduce/degrade it, so who knows what is the content in toasted wheat germ, and it also impossible to know how much spermidine is in the wheat germ oil extract if it’s not indicated on the bottle. The additional processing involved would cost more and be reflected in the price.

    Here is a good video by Michael Lustgarten discussing the amount of spermidine we would like to consume for anti- aging and cognitive effects:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7lqncPch8c

    Lustgarten reports that in a randomized controlled trial of oldest adults at risk for dementia, a spermidine supplement of 1.2 mg/d had a positive impact on memory, and in another RCT with subjects actually suffering from dementia, supplemental spermidine of ~ 1mg/d showed a clear correlation between spermidine intake and improved cognitive performance.

    For longevity effects, he indicates that if you take 30 grams of wheat germ/day you would get 12 mg of spermidine. That is the cut off for lowest all-cause mortality, the minimum for the longevity effect. He states that is also an amount associated with lowest incidence of future cognitive impairment.

    If you need 30 grams of wheat germ to get 12 mg spermidine, and since a tablespoon of wheat germ weighs about 6 grams, you would need to eat about 5 tablespoons of raw wheat germ. That’s too much for me. I find that I can easily mix in 1 Tablespoon in a smoothie. Since I like wild mushrooms and aged cheddar that will give me some more, but that’s not something I could do on a daily basis.

    Until someone can give me a tasty recipe as a way to consume 5 tablespoons of wheat germ daily, I will continue to settle for ~ 1mg spermidine per day.

    Like
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view
    • Fred Cloud how would one go about making that into a consumable product?

      Like 1
      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 9 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      chuck stanley I dont know, throw it in your shake?

      Like 1
    • chuck stanley  10 grams of wheatgerm contains on average 2,4 grams of spermidine.  30 grams of wheatgerms should provide approximately 7,5 grams of spemidine. 

       

      https://spermidin-kapseln.de/en/spermidine-in-food/#The_Spermidine_Food_List

      Like
    • Staffan Olsson 2.4 mg per 10g.

      Like
    • chuck stanley yes 2,4 mg per 10 gr. Thanks for correcting my typo. 

      Like
      • brad
      • brad.1
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      chuck stanley  5 tablespoons is easy for me when I mix it with cacao nibs.

      Like
  • My favorite way to consume the wheat germ is to pour some in a bowl with walnuts, almonds any other supps, slices of banana or raisins, add water or milk. I enjoy the taste of that as cereal. chuck stanley yes, I’m not sure if spermidine is more or less fragile than vitE so my estimates are uncertain, but I guess I’m in the 10-30mg/day ballpark.

    Like
    • Donald Slowik I tried the raw wheat germ with apple, banana, nuts and raisins and I agree it tasted pretty good.

      Like 1
    • Paul Beauchemin that looks like a great find. Please post a review once you try it!

      Like
    • Paul Beauchemin I saw that but did you notice that company's note that they are going out of business soon?

      Like
    • Hello World thanks for noting that. I decided I better go ahead and order the spermidine powder, and also ordered some EGCG powder while I was at it. I wonder why they are going out of business... good prices and a nice website.

      Like
    • chuck stanley I found this post on Reddit

      science-bio Science.bio • 3 days ago

      Hi, indeed we had announced the unfortunate news of our closing Please see more information here: https://science.bio/closure/

      We appreciate your ardent support and loyalty through the years. Unfortunately, there is a bill for further regulation and control of SARMs and related compounds: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/2895 Although it has not passed yet, we believe that the best business decision is to be proactive and stay ahead of the curve. And since our synthetic metabolics line at Science.Bio will be affected, it will not be viable for us anymore to keep our natural line, so we have made the decision to liquidate the whole company, including Botany.Bio.

      We are still accepting orders on both websites for the next couple of months, so you still have a chance to stock up, all at a steep discount especially for the coming Christmas and New Year holiday. So please stay tuned for the promo codes in your mailbox!

      Like
    • Paul Beauchemin Have you received your order yet?

      Like
    • Hello World yes, have to figure out how to measure it and ingest

      Like
  • chuck stanley They discuss reasons for going out of business a bit in their faqs…

    Like
  • A further bit of information re wheat germ oil: I asked the people at Viobin if they had any information on spermidine content, and they (very helpfully) replied that they would expect it, as a water-soluble amine, to end up in the defatted product rather than the oil extract.

    I find regular wheat germ ok in a smoothie, but seem to remember reading that spermidine content is quite variable according to strain etc - no idea if this was just supplement promotion, or maybe it's a reason to go for a variety of food sources.

    Like
    • Bobby Do they sell the ‘defatted product’?

      Like
    • Bobby thanks for the information from Viobin.  Good point about its water solubility. It does look like they sell their defatted product, maybe just for commercial use?

      Like
      • Bobby
      • Bobby
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      chuck stanley seems to be retail:

      https://viobin.com/supplements/lightly-toasted-defatted-wheat-germ/

      (though still a pity not knowing the actual content or whether "lightly toasted" makes a difference)

      Like
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