Micro-Dosing Lithium for Life Extension - How to Divide 300mg Tablet?

I've been reading the research on how low-dose lithium looks to be helpful in age mitigation as outlined in links below.  I want to try it at the level of 5mg to 10mg a day.  I want to use the medication Lithium Chloride that is used in the studies (not Lithium orate that is sold over the counter, but for which little data is available on).

Typically Lithium is used in medical applications for mood disorders, and the pills are  typically in the range of 250mg to 450mg.  

Can anyone recommend a good way of somehow getting a reliable 5mg to 10mg dose of Lithium from these larger dose pills.  I could pulverize the pills and try to divide the powder to get 1/20th or 1/30th of the amount.  That seems very difficult to do.  Another way would be to dissolve the Lithium pill into some sort of liquid that could more easily be measured out volumetrically.  

Can anyone suggest a good way to do this?

Lithium Microdosing:

https://www.alzdiscovery.org/uploads/cognitive_vitality_media/Lithium-microdose-Cognitive-Vitality-For-Researchers.pdf

 

Research on Lithium and Aging:


A triple drug combination targeting components of the nutrient-sensing network maximizes longevity

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31570569/

Low-dose lithium uptake promotes longevity in humans and metazoans

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3151375/

Lithium Promotes Longevity through GSK3/NRF2-Dependent Hormesis

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3151375/

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  • Obtain powdered lithium chloride or lithium carbonate - costs about $5 for 30 grams from one of several internet sites such as homesciencetools.com. Mix in water to obtain some concentration like 10mg/ml. A dose of 50mg will provide about 9mg elemental lithium which is about double the max dietary consumption in lithium rich water supplies such as those studied in Japan or Texas. Caution: make sure your mixture is correct - 30grams in 3 liters give you 10mg/cc for instance. You can add 5cc of this concentration to a drink (like gatoraide) for consumption to obtain the approximately 9mg elemental lithium or take less if desired.

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      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 10 mths ago
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      Brin Chikovski  

          I notice that the low-dose Li study involves the subjects drinking water containing a lithium concentration level of 0.1 mg/liter.  That means that for a 5 mg dose, they would have had to drink 50 liters of water per day!  If you are trying to replicate their results, I think your dose level is way too high.  The Life Extension level of 1 mg/day is about right, or perhaps still on the high side. 

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    • JGC Average dietary lithium in humans is 0.5mg/day while some diets and some areas with higher lithium in the water supplies are double or triple that.  Treatment for bipolar disorder is 1200-1800mg/day of lithium carbonate which is roughly 200-300mg of elemental lithium. My dose of 9mg/day of elemental lithium is roughly 3 times the highest amount of dietary intake possible through food and water consumption. I am taking it for the potential benefits when taken with rapamycin as a recent study has indicated that Lithium can reverse metabolic storage alterations associated with mTOR inhibition (such as dyslipidemia). Lithium itself has shown positive longevity in worms and flies similar to rapamycin and when combined with rapamycin the longevity results were actually additive as they are somewhat independent mechanistically https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1913212116. Therefore I think it is a good compliment to rapamycin treatment for longevity. Observational studies of humans with higher dietary lithium intake (Japan) suggests a lower all-cause mortality than in people with lower intake and the Texas studies which indicated lower mental disorders and violent crime in areas of higher lithium dietary intake compared to lower. Tap water is not the primary dietary supply of lithium in the diet and therefore the low amount in the drinking water in the Japanese study is not really the total dietary intake. As an MD I feel totally comfortable taking 5-10mg of elemental lithium daily as part of an overall anti-aging regimen as I would believe that somewhat higher levels are needed to obtain the benefits in regards to any additive effects that may occur with rapamycin than simply mimicking an amount that Japanese people may consume in areas where it is somewhat higher in the drinking water.

      Like 4
  • Life Extension sells 100 x 1,000 mcg (i.e. 1 mg) capsules of lithium orotate for $10.80.  That's a lower dose than your 5-10 mg, but I suppose you could take 5/day.  Bill Faloon was promoting lithium as his "anti-aging supplement of the year".

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  • I find it very interesting. In addition, I already take 5mg of rapamycin a week. I think I'm going to join the lithium club, I'll buy the life extension club.
    I would like to ask how do you know that 10mg is the correct dose? Another question, is it taken on an empty stomach or with food?

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  • Mark, thanks for that information - very helpful. 

    JGC - thanks - but I'm much more comfortable with the  lithium chloride or lithium carbonate versions of lithium as that is what all the research studies are based on, and it seems few studies have been done on lithium orate.  Its not clear to me that oral dosing of the Lithium orotate will have any similar bioequivalence and bioavailability similar to the other tested versions of lithium.  

    To reduce risk, and maximize likely effectiveness I will go with  lithium chloride or lithium carbonate.

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  • Pablo, I already take 10mg of Rapamycin and 100mg of Acarbose with every meal.  There have not been any longevity studies yet in humans using lithium.  Generally the medical establishment seems to recommend taking lithium with food - but that is from usage guidelines in treatment of bipolar disorder.  That is the best we have right now:  

    https://reference.medscape.com/drug/eskalith-lithobid-lithium-342934

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      • MAC
      • MAC
      • 10 mths ago
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      Brin Chikovski Brin, you are taking 10mg I assume 3x per day, re every meal? 30 mg per day? I just started on 4mg once per WEEK. The prevailing thinking on Rapamycin is intermittent at best not to down regulate mTOR2?

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    • Brin Chikovski But I still wonder why you have chosen 10mg of lithium, in that study it talks about more mg for bipolar disorder, but I still don't understand why 10mg a day. Do you take breaks?

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    • Pablo Reinaldos López Good point - I think the data we have now is that 5mg/day and lower is pretty much risk free from this summary:

      https://www.alzdiscovery.org/uploads/cognitive_vitality_media/Lithium-microdose-Cognitive-Vitality-For-Researchers.pdf

      Like 1
    • Brin Chikovski Do you think that 1mg of lithium as sold by life extension or others may be enough or 5mg would be the most suitable antiaging dose?

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      • Jimmy
      • Jim_N
      • 10 mths ago
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      Brin Chikovski Have you considered keto diet instead of Acarbose?

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    • Jim N I do try to follow a low carb, keto diet, but I'm not perfect so I think the Acarbose helps.  Its interesting - the Acarbose side effects (mostly just gas) really varies by food you eat... had brown rice the other night for the first time in a long time and the gas was the worst its ever been...   I'd like to get a continuous glucose monitor so I can better track my diet and blood sugar/insulin... I will get as soon as I can.  

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    • Pablo Reinaldos López Pablo - I don't think the research has been done yet to tell us if 1mg or 5mg is better.  Its all a guesstimate right now...

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    • Brin Chikovski I would like to ask you about acarbosa, do you take it before eating or after?  When do you take it, at breakfast, at lunch, at dinner?

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    • Pablo Reinaldos López The protocol for taking acarbose is that you take it with the first bit of food for a given meal.  Details here: 

      https://www.healthline.com/health/acarbose-oral-tablet

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  • Ah - sorry, that was confusing how I worded it.  I take 10mg, in one dose, once per week.  And Every 4 or 5 months I take a 6 week rapamycin vacation/ break from taking it to keep the MTOR2 pathway open. I also stop taking rapamycin anytime I get any sort of wound (for example, I was rock climbing a few weeks ago and got some nasty road rash - so I stopped taking rapamycin for 3 weeks while it healed)

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    • Brin Chikovski So - 10mg rapamycin,  done in one dose/week.  

      Acarbose is 100mg every meal (with first bite of meal).

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      • MAC
      • MAC
      • 10 mths ago
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      Brin Chikovski ok I figured. Did you start out at 10mg or work your way up? Other than the wound comment, any other side effects, positive effects actually measurable?

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  • I've been using rapamycin for over a year now.  I started with 1mg, then increased it by 1mg each week until I got to 10 weeks.  Then after every "rapa vacation" I restart at 6mg without problems.  I got canker sores in my mouth once - but they went away after a few days.  Also have gotten a small dime-sized rash on my wrist where my Fitbit sits which I've never had before.  It could have been poison oak - but I suspect it was the rapamycin. It comes and goes now.  Other than that - no negative side effects.  On the positive side - with rapamycin (and I also took metformin for a few months) I was able to lose weight very easily - After losing about 25lbs I'm now back down to my high school weight with a 29 inch waist - so that that's really nice.  Exercise is easier so I've ramped up on that.  

    I'm going to start regular blood testing to get a better handle on exactly what Changes are happening.  LifeExtension has two blood tests - the CBC for $35 and the CRP (C-reactive protein) test for $45, that together give you all the data you need for the Phenotypical age calculations for biological age. I'm also going to test blood during fasting (which I do once per month for 3 days), and just after taking Rapamycin (e.g. after 2 hours after taking the rapamycin at peak concentration), and also at the end of the weak just before I take another dose - to see what my blood testing looks like over time.  

    Phenotypical age calculator:

    https://michaellustgarten.com/2019/09/09/quantifying-biological-age/

    Like 1
      • aribadabar
      • aribadabar
      • 10 mths ago
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      Brin Chikovski Besides CRP and CBC, you also need the following analytes for the Phenotypic age calculator: albumin, creatinine, glucose, alkaline phosphatase.

      Also, the correlation to biological age is about 65% , not 94%, as Michael posted, so it is a very tough estimate.

      MyDNAge test seems the most accurate one for measuring epigenetic age.

      Like 1
      • aribadabar
      • aribadabar
      • 10 mths ago
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      aribadabar rough*

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  • You didn't change diet or exercise whilst ramping Rapamcyin? I was concerned too on exercise blunting, but have found no such effect at 4mg/week. Are you doing this flying solo, or doctor supervised? Check your immune system while you are at it, CBC, etc. I did a DnaAge blood test in July 2020 as a baseline.

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  • No, no significant changes in diet or exercise while ramping rapamycin.  after losing about 15 or 20 lbs I did start exercising more, in part because it was a lot easier and my endurance was much better.  My exercise right now is still pretty intermittent - a couple 4 or 5 mile runs a week is about it, but I want to start weigh lifting again and using my concept 2 rower.  Also just got a new mountain bike so will be doing that as weather gets better here.  In the meantime, hope to get out skiing and snowshoeing more.  

    I tried to find a doctor to work with - Dr. Green in NY, and others. Dr. Green never responded to my emails, text or phone calls, so I gave up on him. There is one doctor in Tampa that Blagosklonny identified - but when travel restrictions hit last March I gave up on that idea. Couldn't find anyone within 5 hours to see me so I eventually gave up. Plus the doctors that do do it, seem to charge a lot for a prescription. I buy my medications from inexpensive suppliers on indiamart.com and have had the medications tested at a 3rd party lab to verify quality and all has been good. So - I've just been flying solo. Will add immune system checking too - thanks.

    Like 1
  • I am a high exerciser, so was concerned Rapamycin would blunt or impact. I live in Canada, so visiting Dr Green out of the question COVID. My FMD, although he's heard of Rapamycin, has not delved into it, has no patients on it, but was extremely supportive. I did also source the Rapa overseas, but under his supervision. I haven't run a 1st panel yet, will do so at 3 months, but so far so good. I don't really feel any different., absolutely no side effects. I do both daily endurance and resistance exercise, if anything, these both seem to be somewhat "easier", but could be placebo. I plan on doing a half marathon with a friend shortly, this may yield a signal.

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  • aribadabar said:
    the correlation to biological age is about 65% , not 94%, as Michael posted, so it is a very tough estimate

     Thanks - I Believe the LifeExtension tests cover those:

    https://www.lifeextension.com/lab-testing/itemlc381822/chemistry-panel-complete-blood-count-cbc-blood-test

     

    Where did you get the info that the correlation for biological age is 65%?  

    Yes - I was going off of Michael's postings

    Like 1
      • aribadabar
      • aribadabar
      • 10 mths ago
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      Brin Chikovski I see what happened - you used a short-hand for the LEF's offering - it includes a pretty  comprehensive metabolic panel of which CBC (Complete Blood Count) is only the last section of the list of analytes. But yes, this package covers all the required numbers you need for Phenotypic Age calculation.

       

      As to the correlation being only 65%, see SUPPLEMENTARY FIG. S5 in Supplement 1 of the main DNAm paper: 

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5940111/bin/aging-10-101414-s001.pdf

      (cor=0.65) 

      Like 2
      • aribadabar
      • aribadabar
      • 9 mths ago
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      • Reported - view

      aribadabar Michael Lustgarten posted a good overview of the various epigenetic clocks: https://youtu.be/iNnvF1Eh7VE

      Like 1
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