Anyone actually experience marked increased energy from NMN?
It's been 2 years now - sublingual.
Nothing. I'm ready to throw it in the box with the resveratrol and rapamycin.
Please leave your experiences and types/doses as well as how you can differentiate if also using other 'compounds'.
Thank you
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My personal experience inclines me to the view that Melatonin assists in reducing inflammation.
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Paul Beauchemin you could try resveratrol, but that might also cause bleeding.
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John Hemming
My conclusion (which is really a conjecture) was based on my attempt to understand the mechanism behind the sleep-inducing properties on Melatonin. As I recall, when Melatonin first became available in the 1990s, it was characterized as a natural hormone that had been studied in the context of sleep regulation at oral dose levels of around 200-500 micrograms.
Hormones attach to receptors on the system of cells that they are affecting. If those receptors become over-saturated, that negatively affects the normal behavior of the system that the hormone is targeting. It seems to me that that should happen when one takes 120 mg of Melatonin per day. But, admittedly, that's just a conjecture.
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JGC You are right in that receptors can get washed out. However, Melatonin also acts in ways other than a hormone. For sleep it emphasises the effect of GABA.
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John Hemming that’s really interesting about the regrowth of pigmented hair. We’ve seen other reports of similar from what was concluded to be a reduction of stress. But I wonder whether the reestablishment of circadian order might be the key. I suspect circadian disorder is a huge component of healthspan. It’s all just speculation on my part.
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Jared It was not that many hairs, but it is a gradual process that does not appear to have halted yet. My own hypothesis is that this arises probably at least in part from a demethylation process.
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John Hemming yeah I would guess that whatever epigenetic change resulted in hair loss has been at least partially reversed.
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Jared Hair is I think a particularly complex aspect of the body that is an indicator of health. That is why I think high frequency hearing loss tests are a good test for general health (and very easy to do). Sadly I have only tested this more recently some time after I started my protocol.
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John Hemming John. Are you still using the levels described above for melatonin?
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Michael yes
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I have particularly tested Melatonin on Gingivitis. I often take it sublingually and the days I don't take it my gums are more inflamed. My dental hygienist was really impressed by the changes melatonin caused.
Hence I think there is a general dynamic on inflammation. My guess is that if you take it on a chronic basis it will gradually reduce inflammation more generally. You probably do need to take something like 30mg a night.
However, you need to be really careful on how to take it. I am doing quite a bit of experimentation on that at the moment.
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John Hemming I’m a practicing tooth doctor and I’d agree that melatonin, among almost anything you ingest, will impact the oral microbiome and contribute to general health. I suspect the benefits may at least partially be from some sort of bacterial metabolites that reduce inflammation in the gingiva. Just like the gut, the oral microbiome also has a circadian cycle where the proportions of certain types of bacteria change throughout the day/night.
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Jared Quick question. What are your best recommendations if thinking about getting implants? Rapa, melatonin... etc...
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Michael the major issue with implants is bone health. Both systemic and microbial factors play a role. Surprisingly Age doesn’t seem to be talked about as much of a risk factor as does bone quality and healing ability. That being said Diabetes and perio disease (diseases of aging) greatly increase the risk of implant failure. We consider these plus smoking to be the greatest risk factors.
I haven’t seen any data on melatonin or rapamycin in relation to implants (that doesn’t mean it’s not out there) but I would surmise that anything that restores youth to bone would be beneficial. There is some literature on a significant benefit of resveratrol in perio disease which I think would also pertain to implants. -
Jared A lot of body systems benefit from the availability of a number of molecules. For example bones need vitamins D3 and K2 (mk4 and mk7) for handling calcium as well as melatonin to get the balance between osteoclasts and osteoblasts right. I have seen suggestions that K2 mk4 is particularly helpful for teeth.
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Jared I'm banking on the exogenous test I take to contribute toward bone health/strength. Having said that, even though I'm a fitness nut, I still smoke and I know they'll likely fail until I stop. It's a very annoying situation at the moment.
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John Hemming yes that’s true. In fact it’s the fat soluble vitamins A, D, K and E that matter most for facial growth. They are mostly found in properly raised animal fats. It’s I think why there has never been a truly vegan society until now. The ancients knew the importance of these things. Fats were once covered above all.
A dentist by the name of Weston Price wrote about the importance of the fat soluble vitamins way back in the early 1900s. He travelled the world analyzing the effects of modern vs ancient diets on facial growth. He had the privilege of seeing 1st hand the changes in indigenous peoples as they converted from traditional to modern diets. It’s an interesting read of anyone is interested. -
Michael yes so smoking more so than anything else really changes the physiology of the mouth. The biggest change I notice clinically is the decreased vascularity of the tissues. The gums and bone don’t bleed well and I suspect this is the reason why implants fail. Any type of trauma results in delayed and sometimes inadequate healing. It’s also why perio disease is more prevalent in smokers.
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Jared Have you ever seen any examples where they've taken with a continuing smoker?
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Michael yes they we can get them to integrate. But we always tell the patient there’s a greater chance of failure and it may have to be removed and replaced.
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John Hemming Reading your comments here about K2, which is extracted from natto, also the source of nattokinase (nattokinase decreases plasma levels of fibrinogen), reminded me of an article I saw recently regarding fibrinogen and gum and bone disease.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/12/211223143106.htm
Disarming a blood-clotting protein prevents gum disease in mice
"Blocking function of a blood-clotting protein prevented bone loss from periodontal (gum) disease in mice, according to research led by scientists at the National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research (NIDCR), part of the National Institutes of Health. Drawing on animal and human data, the researchers found that buildup of the protein, called fibrin, triggers an overactive immune response that damages the gums and underlying bone. The study, which was published in Science, suggests that suppressing abnormal fibrin activity could hold promise for preventing or treating periodontal disease, as well as other inflammatory disorders marked by fibrin buildup, including arthritis and multiple sclerosis."
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Dan Nave Only Mk7 comes from Natto. It is possible to supplement with MK4 and mk9 as well. Certain foods mainly hard cheese also have the longer chains of isoprenes, but that varies quite bit. I think the longest chain that is seen is MK-13. However, I don't think there is good research on anything other than MK-4 and MK-7.
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John Hemming Excuse me? Natto....Nattokinase???...
"Nattokinase (NK), the most active ingredient of natto, possesses a variety of favourable cardiovascular effects and the consumption of Natto has been linked to a reduction in CVD mortality. Recent research has demonstrated that NK has potent fibrinolytic activity, antihypertensive, anti-atherosclerotic, and lipid-lowering, antiplatelet, and neuroprotective effects. "But, nevermind...
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Dan Nave I don't think Natto produces MK4, however. Obviously Natto has other things in it, but as far as the menaquinones go I think only mk7 comes from natto. Things like hard cheese can produce mk4, 7 8 and 9 at times. That depends upon the fermentation.
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Jared
" There is some literature on a significant benefit of resveratrol in perio disease which I think would also pertain to implants. "
I guess I'm back to incorporating resveratrol .
Thank you
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Michael there’s also a little bit of data on rapamycin and perio disease although I think the field needs more human data before it becomes something that would be generally recommended.
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