Quercetin recomendations
I have just ordered some Dasatinib using the link in the other thread here. I have started to look to get Quercetin as well and I see many options to order it online. Many seem to have other stuff included in them like Bromelain or Vitamin C. I am wondering if people here have suggestions on what type I should get.
Also if anyone has an recommendations for taking these? I have the chart to see dosage amounts based on body weight, and understand they say to take a very small amount a few days before just to be sure there is no reaction. And I understand it should be two dosese one week apart.
Is there anything else people can suggest?
Thank you.
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Can you give me guidance on how you completed the order, please?
Also, Amazon has just the quercitin
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I can not yet. I filled out the website to order the stuff and it said an invoice would arrive the next business day for me to complete to finalize the order. But that has not happened yet, so we will see. If I don't have it by tomorrow I am going to try contacting the site to try to figure out what the deal is, and will respond here.
Also thank you. I will likely order that soon.
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in the first human study on idiopatic lung fibrosis they used this kind of Quercetin.
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that is the correct one (quercetin phytosome) the other one is practically insoluble in water, adding etoh or other liquid to increase solubility can be harmfull, as if when the mixture get to the stomac, the comparativly large water content will probable make the quercetin insoluble .
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So I did get an invoice from them after 2 days, You can not pay by credit card, you either have to do a wire transfer or an e-check. Going to the bank today to figure out about doing one of those, but it looks like it will not be to hard.
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Jeff Fuja Have you succeeded in paying by wire transfer or echeck? I also got an invoice from them and 'am trying to pay them.
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For those that figure out how to pay via wire transfer, please post the steps you used! I have tried a number of ways, but the information they provide for a Western Union transfer is insufficient, and the click 2 pay website seems to be offline.
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FWIW, I don't like Western Union due to past security issues. I used the echeck method and it worked flawlessly.
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Michael Avenoso Yep. eCheck seems to have worked for me.
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Does anyone know if the new BioQuercetin https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02302/bio-quercetin can be used in the sensolytic program with Dasatinib and if so, what would be the dosage?
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Michael Avenoso
Hi!
1. Life extension's capsules Bio-Quercetin phytosome 29mg delivers 10 mg quercetin.
2. The thorne product used in the last human trial ( idiopatic lungfibrosis) at the el mayo clinic has capsules that contains: Quercetin Phytosome (Sophora japonica extract (flower) / Phospholipid complex from Sunflower) 250 mg.
My interpretation is that the capsules with the thorne product contains 250/29 = 8,5 times more than the life extension product. One thorne capsule is the same as 8,5 capsules from life extension.
Life extension claims their product is 50 times more bioavailable compared to regular quercetin.
Thorne claims that their product is 20 times more bioavailable compared to regular quercetin.
Since it seams to be the same substance in the two products this is confusing. My interpretation is that life extension’s statement about being 50 times more bioavailable relates to the amount of quercetin that their product deliver. And that Thornes statement about being 20 times more bioavailable relates to entire Bio phytosome and not only the “pure” amount of quercetin that is contains. Then the numbers almost add up. If this is not the case then I don’t get the numbers at all.
If the above reasoning is correct it means that the dose of 1250 mg Quercetin Phytosome that the el mayo clinic used in their latest human trial together with dasatinib is comparable to 43 capsules of life extension’s Bio Quercetin.
Yes I find this a bit confusing to. But the answer to the question if Bio phytosome quercetin can be used in senolytic protocols is yes. It is used in life extensions product called “senolytic activator” and it is also used by the researchers at the el mayo clinic.
The dose?? That question has not been properly answered yet. My reasoning above is only my personal interpretation of what I have read.
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Saffan...Thanks for the thoughtful reply. This is confusing. Here is the study that they are referring to: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30328058 It claims up to 20 times more quercetin in the plasma from the quercetin phytosome. I have an email in to LEF asking why they claim 50 times more when the study they reference says 20 times. If I get an answer I'll post it here.
I haven't done the math but it does look like the Thorne product may be less expensive.
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Michael Avenoso
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13318-018-0517-3
This is research done by Indena
Even though its done for building the scientific foundation for one of their products the research is done in a serious way. One can see in Fig 2 how much the bioavailability is improved with this kind of quercetin formula.
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Staffan...Yes that's the same study I linked to. I called LEF and they said the discrepancy in the multiple was due to a differing dose used in the study vs. their product, which of course makes no sense. After explaining that the multiple should stay the same (within a range of reasonable doses) regardless of the dose, I was told they are going to upgrade my request to a different dept. We shall see.
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OK, I heard back from LEF. Sorry but the formatting of the table is messed up. Here's their reply:
"Please see the information below on the bioavailability of the bio-quercetin:
The study concludes, “up to 20 times more than usually obtained following a dose of quercetin”. This conclusion is based upon comparing the total weight of the phytosome doses (250 and 500 mg) with that of the quercetin control (500 mg). However, the quercetin phytosome tablets used in the study contained 40% quercetin (100 mg quercetin in the phytosome 250 mg dose, and 200 mg quercetin in the 500 mg phytosome dose). When normalizing for the amount of quercetin in each dose (phytosome 250 is 5-times less than control, and phytosome 500 is 2.5-time less than control), what we get for enhanced exposure is a 50 times more bioavailable dose than a dose of standard quercetin:
PK Parameter Quercetin 500 Phytosome 250/Quercetin 500 Phytosome 500/Quercetin 500
AUC 4774.93 50401.53/4774.93=10.56x5=52.78 96163.87/4774.93=20.14x2.5=50.35
Cmax 10.93 126.35/10.93=11.59x5=57.92 223.10/10.93=20.41x2.5=51.03
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My brain is on holiday recently. Does anyone think this makes sense?
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Michael Avenoso
yes it makes much more sense now. LEF say the same thing as I guessed. Thorne base their calculation on the total weight of the entire quercetin phytosome complex. LEF base their number of the actual weight of the quercetin in the quercetin phytomsome complex.
Quercetin phytomsome complex does not contain 100% quercetin. They say that the content of quercetin in quercetin phytosomes is 40% /but the label say it is approx 35 % (10/29=0,35).
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Staffan Olsson Does this mean if you are using the Thorne product you should take more Quercetin for a proper dosage compared to the dasatinib? The things I have seen say you should take 10 x as much Quesrcetin as you are taking Dasatinib based on your weight. So if you are taking 200 mg of dasatanib you would want 2000 mg of Quercetin. Would this be 8 of the 250mg tablets, or if that 40% number is how much you are really getting then it would be 20 right? 20 x 40% = 8
Hopefully is just the 8. taking 20 tablets would be an awful lot. :)
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Jeff Fuja
Thorne claims that their product (when compared to regular quercetin) delivers 20 times more quercetin to your bloodstream. One 250 mg capsule of the thorne product should therefore deliver an amount of quercetin to the bloodstream that is equal to 5000 mg of regular quercetin. One capsule is way above what you aim for BUT note that when the El mayo reserchers did research on idiopulmatic lungfibrosis the patients took 5 of the 250 mg capsules each day. But they only had the patients take 100 mg of dasatinib. A lot of quercetin and not so much dasatinib.
Maybe the lower dose of dasatinib was chosen because that is a standard starting dose when dasatinib is used to treat chronic myeloid leukemia.
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Thanks Steffan!
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If it is still relevant I may suggest trying taxifolin and arabinogalactan from Siberian larch. It is also called dihydroquercetin. It might be helpfull nowdays and is better than quercetin imo. Also here is the link to research of it effects https://24b46f06-44bd-4a1f-b8fc-fae48feb9cd5.filesusr.com/ugd/37eaf4_812df6343e184c5fa6e9f50c4df75ce0.pdf
