Fisetin and Sleep
I am trying to find out more about the interplay between Fisetin and sleep. I noted there is another thread that looks more widely at Fisetin in which some sleep problems are mentioned.
I have looked around the net and the various published papers on Fisetin and I see some anecdotal evidence of sleep problems caused by Fisetin, but also some people find that Fisetin improves a medical condition that causes sleep problems.
My own experience is that Fisetin disrupts sleep in a way which happens when my mitochondria have more energy (particularly the neuronal ones).
Does anyone have any thoughts on this.
Clearly Fisetin is thought to be better than Quercetin, but if it is for some people (myself included) a known problem that it will disrupt sleep that needs to be taken into account.
There is also an argument that Fiestin is a adenosine antagonist. Actually come to think of it it is quite possible that this is the route through which it affects sleep rather than mitochondrial energy. That is argued for Quercetin, but when I think about my own experiences I think it is more of an energy thing.
-
Hi John, I have experienced the same. It took me a while to figure out which one of the anti-aging supplements I am taking disrupted my sleep. It clearly is Fisetin. I tried it several times. It's like switching my sleep off almost all night when I take a 500mg dosage on that day in the morning (not even at night). I am awake for hours, Melatonin won't help. I don't have the same experience with Quercetin. Therefore, I have stopped the intake of Fisetin and my sleep is restored.
-
Well, reading this has made me realize why I am having disturbed sleep. I looked at when I started my 300 mg fisetin midday (often with 500mg quercetin) and that is when my problem with waking at 2:30 and not getting back to sleep until 5 (then up at 6:30) started. Fortunately, I have been doing it cyclically, and now see that my poor sleep pattern follows ingestion of fisetin. I agree that its antagonistic effect on adenosine is the most likely reason.
-
Very interesting, indeed. Thank you for your post.
-
Iris Akari Update: The 3:00 ish waking has started up again and no fisetin. I am completely baffled. I take quercetin with breakfast around 10:30 and curcumin at 2:30 with lunch. I avoid all supplements at dinner except for pro-resolving mediators and a tocotrienol capsule. I am also no longer thinking that an antagonistic effect on adenosine is my problem because I have no issue starting sleep. It's just that I exit too fast. The occasional night will be fine. I am a neurotic documenter of everything I ingest and do, but cannot for the life of me determine what is going on.
-
Moonlitnight I would think insufficient endogenous melatonin is the immediate cause. Hence you need to work out what causes your pineal to produce too little melatonin.
-
John Hemming Hello John and thank you for your response. I have not had fluoride for decades, so not sure what may be going on with my pineal gland. What about exogenous melatonin? I can't take more than 2 mg as it contributes to my migraines. I will start using that 2mg gain to see what happens. Last night I woke at 3:30 but was able to get back to sleep, ending up with over seven hours (Woo!)
-
Moonlitnight I would not take melatonin before going to sleep. You can use melatonin to get back to sleep having woken at 3am, but you need to wait for the next sleep cycle which is probably 90 mins or so after waking. Hence if you take melatonin ideally after 45 mins, 1 hour and 1 hour 15 mins you should catch the next sleep cycle.
-
John Hemming Thanks John.
-
Moonlitnight If I wake up in the middle of the night I take 1 - 3 gr taurine. It does not provaide an immidate effect. It is like I am slowly drifting back to sleep, during 30 min or so.
-
Staffan Olsson That is interesting Steffan! I will definitely research this/try it and see if it helps. Thank you so much for your input.
-
-
Disturbed sleep is the worst. I am really sorry to hear that, also that you seem to be unable to find the cause. I am testing (kinesiologically) on a regular basis what works and what not. Our bodies change. Also, I'm taking a lot more than you, mostly polyphenols. I sure hope you'll get to the bottom of your problem.
-
Iris Akari Thank you for your response. I actually take over 20 supplements, but keep them to breakfast and lunch. I've tried almost all of the sleep supplements, including combinations. (I don't take anything with 5-HTP because my migraine meds is a 5-HTP agonist and I am concerned about serotonin syndrome.). I do take L-theanine. Prof. Huberman of Stanford recommends inositol for nighttime wakings. I don't recall if this is to stop them, or to better enable sleep and must listen again. So far, none of his other recommendations have helped.
-
