Mechanism for Immortality

I think you are wrong about senolytics.  The body accumulates damaged and un-repairable senescent cells that should be subject to aptosis, but instead hang around to create inflammation and induce their neighbors to go senescent too.  NMN won't fix that.

However, I'm curious as to how you get your NMN (or something else that produces it) and how much you take how often.

Chan said:
And I'm inspired by sublingual delivery nowadays so I break up the NR capsules and mix with the squeezee water bottle I bought and refill to 1/4 of it.   I have a small sip every now and then for one or two capsules and it lasts about half a day.  I don't swallow the sip immediately.   And I shake up the bottle with each sip to mix the drug evenly in water.

I sure don't like Chan 's sassy attitude in most of his posts here, but I do appreciate his innvative method of sublingual delivery.   Now wondering what else might be successfully delivered that way.  And which ones might be safely combined into the same bottle.

To all:

One thing being demonstrated by the COVID-19 quarantine is more clear air to breath.          Modern society (industrialization) has loaded air, water and soil with pollutants; pollutants that were never around 500 years ago. Soils. are increasingly depleted of nutriuents. It takes a very long time to evolve in ways to cope. Logically; the quest to significantly lengthen human life span must take pollution into account. Our elected leaders, both left and right politic, appear to ignore both the impact of pollution toward shortening human life span as well as the fact that our nation has no credible National Anti-aging Plan {NA2P). Logically, a credible plan would have a "Monitor and assess self-test and preparedness" task. Self-testers should have easy access to a secure data base that list what is being done and with what results. Tax breaks appear as incentive. Perhaps an "already tried with what results" file would be of great aid. Sort of a "Don't build your own rocket to prove the curvature of the Earth and crash avoidance warning? Better to simply take a high altitude commercial flight.  That gets us to testing.  Testing should be affordable and highly available. Self-test could be assigned a number for progress and test results be put in public records in a secure file. Statistical analyses of results is just good business; e.g., the good and wise business of seriously extending human life spans requires organized useable data. Goals of average ages of 90. 100. 120; 130---400; etc., years need to be set. National COVID-19 tasks and concept appear flawed. Please correct if wrong; one sees no NA2P. There are no life span goals. Even worse: one sees no worse case analysis. Point being; if COVID-19 is as persistent as smallpox or polio; vaccines should be given every human on earth. That is worse case; however, that contingency isn't currently being discussed at national or global decision levels. No planning apparent. $2+ trillion? No real credible planning?? I.G. fired? Is this a bad fiction story? Demand more. COVID-19 isn't credibly funded if worse case appears. Doesn't appear to even consider vaccinating every human on earth.

Fact: human life spans are shorter today than a decade ago; additionally, they are shorter now than before COVID-19. Apparently our nation; nor any other country, has a NA2P? As. such; it should not be a surprise that humans will not survive the singularity. A society that cannot set goals for longer life spans and work toward those goals is intellectually flawed and governed by the dim witted. Ha! Opps! How dare to say that! Now go say it yourself. Feel less anxious? Ha! Ha! Screaming medicates anxiety in strange ways. See the humor?

One must keep a sense of humor.  However; one must act in such a way to cause better rules for the game of living longer. The odds must be made better for longer life spans. The object of deterrents to human death and acts to achieve preparedness; in the end; is longer and higher quality life spans. Salutes and praise to all.

There is much in the existing research that discourages drinking alcohol when COVID-19 infected. A gargle may be wise. Ask a wise MD. 70% alcohol in the stomach by volume would be lethal.  Common sense should prevail; no test required.

Thanks to all of you. Suggest writing the elected and demanding longer life spans for votes. Use all available research when planning self-test. Consult, credibly test, witness and report. Maybe we need a standard self-test report? Analysis without organized data is largely useless.

Your thoughts?

Have a wonderful day.

Steven Jacobs

Curious? What % of the $2+ trillion do you each think should be set aside and put into a NA2P to actually extend human life spans? Should it be assigned to a Manhattan like Project?. Should the tax payer $ be accountable, metrics set. task assigned? Individual people made accountable? Should that plan allow mission redirection; reorganization, consolidation; etc., of various agencies involved in COVID-19 and other disease eradication? Re-allocation and better focus of all health care funding? Should it have mission teeth? Should it be shielded from political whim; but, highly accountable to the people?

Recognize that COVID-19 is but a sub-task in such a plan and, at present, no government NA2P exist in concept other than herein our brains. There is no NA2P; no Czar; no Manhattan like Project; no agency; no Cabinet Member--pretty much zip.

So what %?

Steven Jacobs said:
One thing being demonstrated by the COVID-19 quarantine is more clear air to breath.          Modern society (industrialization) has loaded air, water and soil with pollutants; pollutants that were never around 500 years ago. Soils. are increasingly depleted of nutriuents. It takes a very long time to evolve in ways to cope. Logically; the quest to significantly lengthen human life span must take pollution into account. Our elected leaders, both left and right politic, appear

Steve, I agree that pollutants shorten lifespan.    It took me this long to realized this and I first talked about this in relation to dogs being so close to the ground and pick up contaminants so easy.   They end up having shorter lifespan (according to my thinking anyway)

My first attempt at  remeding this situation is clean biodome.    You go in to get younger (assume at some point or if it's a reality already) then go back out to the polluted world.

Steven Jacobs said:
hortening human life span as well as the fact that our nation has no credible National Anti-aging Plan {NA2P). Logic

I guess this can be done but there will be debates on so many side topics such as whether the roles of government will be limited or not.

I agree there will be debates; there should be with public programs. It is however obvious that so far the government is content to allow human life spans to decrease.

There is no NA2P. None. In fact; US citizens experience shorter average life spans today; than a decade ago.

It is an interesting phenomenon that our tax laws allow deductions for robot maintenance, repair, refurbishment; etc; but, not so much with a human body.

There is profoundly less testing required for industrial chemical approval than drug approval. Policy is defective. 

To me; it would be reasonable to put policy and laws on the book that assure that all our water is drinkable; including lakes, rivers, streets; etc. I know that sounds liberal and whacky; but, it is a goal. Imagine being able to catch a non-polluted fish and eat it. As it is; Spanish mackerel, and many on many other fish from the Gulf of Mexico are too polluted to eat every day. In fact of fact; being able to fish for a meal without worrying that the meal could kill; is a noble objective. No better way to distribute a fresh food supply. Much of our farm land is polluted as well. Today; soil is more often not allowed to heal and replenish naturally. 

Note: It takes a serious amount of toxins to pollute the Gulf of Mexico. Lots of leaking oil wells and ships dumping oil; bilge water, and other contaminates. Lots of jobs in cleanup.

Some of the chemicals in air and water reduce male and female fertility as well as seriously mess with hormones. One would think it would be more concerning to the public. 

Funny, I once had a conversation with an acquaintance about a herbicide. He said: "At that amount it would take 130 years to kill you. I asked: "What if I want to live to 150?" Today;  the same chemical is known to cause cancer. Go figure?

It requires better and more human simulations to really understand the impact on human bodies. Logically, an NA2P would have tasks for such research and analyze impacts on the human body; prior allowing new human life span shortening products in the market.

Yeah: sounds controlling. However; the object is to increase human life span; not, shorten it. Simply put; we owe it to ourselves to be able to live longer and with high quality lives. Here in is advocated science based decisions rather than champaign donation based decisions.

The quarantines have resulted in far more clear air. Maybe people will like it enough to support wiser policy?

It is concerning that it appears human attrition vice virus eradication is the current approach to COVID-19 management. I do not believe that 20% death rate of infected older people is acceptable attrition policy foundation or that opening schools early and accepting a 3+% attrition rate is good national policy. It appears as better good sense policy to expedite COVID-19 virus eradication from all humans. The same policy decision process of acceptance of attrition vs choosing toxic product eradication for pollutants is a decision process. Logically; credible pursuit of longer human life spans has to be a decision factor;  and, when that is taken into account--some toxic products will be outlawed.

The issue is that to achieve longer human life spans; they decision process must consider length of human life in the decision process.

The decision process gets more acute if a goal of 200 years average human life span is sought.

The concept of a national Manhattan like Mission to increase human life spans isn't proposed herein lightly. It is overdue and serious business. 

For sure via common sense $2+ trillion for an attrition based policy for COVID-19 is outrageous. There is obviously no NA2P or any credibly fiscally traceable to scheduled results planning.

Longer and healthier human life spans will do more for the economy than anything else. We have to demand longer lives. Longer human life spans is logically the highest priority.

Hummm?? Take the number of human diseases and multiply by $2+ trillion? Ridiculous. The CARES Act lacks focus. It has no credible plan for eradication of COVID-19 or for a NA2P to prevent or cure all diseases or to achieve anti-aging. $2+ trillion is serious money--all our money. This $2+ trillion doesn't even eradicate COVUD-19.

Even more ridiculous; accept shorter human life spans.

Well duh?

Hummm again? Huntsville, Alabama is apparently planning on mostly opening up again in 2 weeks? It hasn't even reached the peak yet. There will likely be a bump up 2 months after the 1st hump passes. In a sine curve; there are as many infected cases and deaths after the peak. Go figure??

Out of mindness = out of hand. The COVID-19 mess we have will likely get worse. Tragic situation. Something we must watch. The preparedness for COVID-19 may be needed sooner than thought if this virus asserts itself in an opened up economy.

Conclusion: Present situation; broke. Our nation can and must do better than this. So too should all other nations. We need eradication of COVID-19 and an anti-aging mission and assignment of that mission and an NA2P to credibly and transparently manage that human life span increase mission to success. COVID-19 is a logical subtask in the NA2P. 

Sorry; COVID-19 isn't over (my independent opine).

Part of remedy is to establish anti-aging mission and establish NA2P and budget, fund and execute the mission to increase (let's say double) human life spans in 5 years.

A goal set herein (2X--Double human life span in 5 years). Maybe we need to meet that goal sooner? We went to the moon didn't we?

Goals must be set. Such a decision and mission would be the greatest boom to global economy ever in human existence. The oceans can be farmed. The oceans can support new floating cities. 3/4 of the planet is covered with water. Lots of room to house and feed more humans. Turn the great ocean garbage patches into floating cities. Lots of jobs. The technology to design and float a city already exist. 

To live longer; we simply have to think differently. We have to set goals and exceed them in actual delivered performance. 

Keep safe distances. Political leaders that value the economy over human lives will end up with less human lives and with a more endangered economy. That is the way pandemics work.

Your thoughts?

Steven Jacobs

Government roles must always be limited. Capitalism works; but, also can be abusive and not accountable.

Never trust government. However; government is credibly necessary to put a human on Mars; and it is also necessary to achieve anti-aging. A National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P) is absolutely necessary to hold a mission to increase human life spans to account to the people. Schedule, tasks, subtask, who is responsible, budgets: etc., all the smart and wise management stuff to credibly achieve goals.

The words "Over-arching" are important to note. Most of the NA2P resources exist in bits and pieces already. There is just no over-arching mission or NA2P to make it happen.  

One must pose the questions: (1) "Do people want to live exceptionally longer in high quality health or put someone on Mars?; (2) "Is a policy of "attrition" to mediate COVID-19 all that can be delivered for $2+ trillion?; (3) "When does "global eradication of COVID-19" come into play?"; (4) "Why isn't there a Manhattan like Project to assure human life spans double?" 

Am I blind? I see no answers.

It appears that the best economic approach is to take the necessary steps to double human life spans in 5 years. Reason; less cost and lives lost to disease. Keeping humans in productive and active lives longer is the best approach to improving the national as well, as global economy. 

A policy of COVID-19 "attrition" acceptance yields indiscriminate loss of human resource (lives). Not good economic or military policy (in a democracy) in the long run.

A policy of attrition sustains a military state and denies freedom. Suspend Congress???

The COVID-19 policy also has to include eradication and prevention as well, as preparedness. Simple good sense.

For $2+ trillion; more must be delivered; including a NA2P.

Conclusion: Situation broke.

Steven Jacobs said:
Government roles must always be limited. Capitalism works; but, also can be abusive and not accountable.
Never trust government. However; government is credibly necessary to put a human on Mars; and it is also necessary to achieve anti-aging. A National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P) is absolutely necessary to hold a mission to increase human life spans to account to the people. Schedule, tasks, subtask, who is responsible, budgets: etc., all the smart and wise management stuff to credibly achieve goals.

 Steve,

Locking down a country is incredibly easy to do if one has power.   It's also a quick way to avoid responsibility because taking blame for possibly fanning the pandemic is a huge political, maybe personal risk.    Taking blame is potentially personal and materially costly while locking things up costs nothing and the government expended nothing to exercise that power.

Rather than keep taking the other side of the argument, I'll remind you of those trillions that just "got lost", or million dollar toilet seats, and the list go on and on.   I'll speculate that people are creatures of expediency and their priorities hardly ever match mine.   If government wants to quickly squash the virus, then experts will introduce models to show just one person can cause massive infection in the population.  Then it's for the good of the public, why not lock that person up?   How about just shoot him.   That may just happen in the Philippines.

You should trust me a lot more than the government because I only recently practiced humility.   If you become too dependent of me then I'll try to get rid of you, so be forewarned and try to be useful to me.  

I'm part of the first wave of people and I got a direct deposit in my account yesterday.   If this continues, I will be dependent on the government and at some point, they will get rid of me.   I have the self introspection to warn you that I may get rid of you.   I doubt the government would.

I want to be humble because fighting back is ugly and winning just means my existence may be cut short.    People like me should be leading the government that you envisioned but I don't have much social capitals and I get picked last in high school PE.    I'm not living in a bitter past, I'm way beyond that.   But those selections continue throughout our lives and only a few people like me notice that because we were picked last.   So don't give the government more power, the number of people being picked last would certainly increase and there'll be a whole lot of injustice.   Let me figure my own way and if you want, let me in charge of your life, not the government.

And I apologize for being wordy here but the level of learning and discovery on forum like this and many others is incredible.    The government is way behind the individuals on anti-aging.   If they get involved, they would lock up many of these people.   For the time being, they are only interested in locking up medications, forcing people to procure fake drugs from India and possibly risk their lives in the process.

Thanks for writing.  Conversation is important to creation, change and communication of all ideas. I do not belittle the cost of shutting down.  However; it is wise to observe that the USA hasn't successfully down. Other nations with better pandemic control leaders have has success in minimizing as well as eliminating the COVUD -19 virus. 

It is a fact that one US General shut down his overseas base in January.  Generals brief up the Chain of command. President Trump had to know. Tragically, the politics of the USA today is that of division. Factually; it is unlikely that any single vaccine will be a cure or protector or all. logically; there is exceptional investment in global vaccines that will likely yield a global competitive market. Logically, market force will eventually deliver policies that will result in a series of vaccine shots as well as medicating measures that will help with remedy.

I agree with your observation of the downside of lockup policies; however, I'm familiar with how a wise nation (or General) response against enemy attack and survives. The poorly instituted and executed USA lockdown wasn't credibly a lockdown in normal military procedures. As such it failed. The "how-to-do it" was already known. it wasn't done.

I add the horrid cost of incest and in-home violence as a tragic products of lock up. Little has been done to assess the extent of that on our fellow citizens. 

Point is that a credible lock down has never been done. The effect that has been done; in some states; has lessened the amount of infections.  On the other hand; elected nd non-elected leaders that have supported opening up and not wearing masks or following credible hygiene practices have clearly contributed to the deaths and sever health compromises that loan term COVID-19 sufferers experience daily. Other nations are considering establishing Long Term COVID-19 Clinics. Leadership failures in the USA to date appear to prevent such action and discussion. Those leadership failures come from the Left, Right and organized religion politic.

Not herein saying all is wrong; not at all.

There is a huge difference in advocating a credible lock down that remedies the viruses adverse impact and returns a nation to health vice a profoundly mismanaged lock down that creates legions of long term COVID impacted citizens and cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of USA citizens.

Presently; left and right politic are severely challenged in a time of what appeared as chaos by intent.

I agree with you about the failures of the FDA.  However; it also appears that the pursuit of life everlasting for humans on Earth is also impaired by organized religions' apparent preference and accepting of death as a design by god.  Human history has been and still is plagued by war as a remedy to all sorts of failed human civility. Human death and suffering are accepted as a normal tour of humans on Earth.

Logically, the COVID-19 appears to some as just another part of that Earth tour and some accept it as that and cry out: "open up."

Tragically; they struggle to get perspective and see that other nations have eliminated the virus via the political courage to: shut down; mask; demonstrate proper hygiene; use proper PPE; and exhibit, in practice good deployment of emergency human and material resources.

Tragically; there are political leaders (elected and un-elected) that play to USA and other nation's citizens in pursuit of personal power through fear and chaos.

I'm old and have had the experience of working for leaders that create chaos so that they, and they alone can offer remedy. Yes; those sort of leaders; once in total power can and will lock down. Beware being played by a known conman. Such conmen (persons) are at all stages in the human life experiment.

Interestingly; too much of the political discussion is void of the rapidly approaching Singularity and it's advanced potential of totalitarianism in which humans are expendable and are placed in absoult control by super intelligent machines.

Yep!; and Ohh No--Super intelligent machines can be designed to survive global warming as well as atomic radiation and environmental pollution. 

I agree with you that unnecessarily prolonged lockdown is failed policy; but, also observe that a credible national shutdown has never been done for COVID-19. Logically; both the left and right politic have to accept that they have failed the US citizens. When political leaders bait citizens against citizens; it is no surprise that COVID-19 is a threat to democracy and freedom.

Funny. I've been a democrat and I've been a GOPer; but, now I'm a "fire-em-all and start over with the same USA Constitution" person. Neither political party has a National Plan for Human Life Span Extension. As such, the current political arguments about human health care are largely no promise.  Not false promise; but no promise: e. g.; no plan, no, tasks, no assigned actions, no milestones, no organization focused mission, functions, budget; etc. Point being; both political parties lack vision and are full of it. Please keep a sense of humor. There is humor in truth. 

From a bigger perspective; COVID-19 (and all virus that follow) is just a subtask in a credible National Plan for Human Life Span Extension.

The reality is that the whole present COVID-19 challenge fails horribly in transparency and focused remedy. Credible planning is tragically lacking. There isn't even fiscal accountability.

One has to see the humor in national tragedy. Many nations have invested profoundly huge resources and fiscal allocations to vacant end cure a single disease so, logically, many will come up with vaccines of various degrees of success. That being the case; political face saving will likely end up with policies that advocate cocktails of various vaccines and spaced out vaccinations of all sorts of yet-to-be-determined remedies. 

The huge gamble is whether it's better to let many unnecessarily die or get long term COVID-19  and bet on a vaccine or It's better to follow two paths simultainously: e.g., lockdown and vaccine pursuit. Either way, a vaccine will eventually exist. Obviously; the President's initiative to not mask and not social distance has given many COVID-19. Even the VP exhibits practice of not following his own policy as the nations lead. He is in close contact with COVID-19 infected people and isn't quarantining.

Take all politics out of that observation and one ends up with the message that quarantining, distancing and worrying about catching the virus are a waste of time.  

That is practice versus policy in which current observation is that current infection rates bear evidence that the pandemic in increasing in the USA due to practice vice policy. Specifically, practice that ignores credible pandemic containment policy.

That practice of willfully ignoring how infective COVID-19 is and risking others' lives appears as poor example in a pandemic.

Sadly, good citizens are being baited against each other in pursuit of specific peoples' power; not in pursuit of cure or infection avoidance. That is a terrible tragedy. Please don't become a victim of being baited.

Yes; there are risks associated with lockdown. Yes; that is a political decision; especially now, since there is so much chaos by design. Our USA citizens are justifiably afraid. The USA has exhibited failed compliance with normal and proven pandemic response policy both military and civil. It is in a mess. Those on the political left and right that have failed to lead are in such denial that they are blaming others and baiting citizens against citizens as they seek even more power. That is pathetic. 

So this opine is unvarnished?

What to do?

Vote. Ha! Be the vote left or right politic; one will only find out later what the result will actually be.

Demand a credible National Plan for Human Life Span Extension.

The best thing a US citizen can do currently is do what they can to beef up their own immunity, get vaccinated against the normal winter threats; mask, distance, self-quarantine "as reasonable", work at home where possible, try to follow some sort of human life span increase protocol, and vote. Yes; wise to have health insurance. 

In my case; I'm of no consequence to anyone except to myself. I'm a nobody and not an influencer and have no stake in the political left or right. 

Again; thanks for the comments. Stay well and be happy each day.