Mechanism for Immortality

OK guys, here goes.    This is controversial so I apologize beforehand.

 

All you need is NMN because it repairs DNA damage and it boots energy via the mitochondria.   You don't need telomeres because the simple act of meditation can lengthen it naturally.   This is from the book "Mind Matters" by some famous doctor.

 

So this means we have somatic cells that will not reach sennessence or do so very slowly - while they're rebuilding telemore length - hopefully at a rate faster than needed for replication.

 

You don't need to clear senessent cells because - and feel free to resist me - this feels like colonic irrigation.   Yes, it may be OK to physically help the body but there's no need if it's working properly.

 

I'm not discouraging use of senolytics but you're running into a sort of diet fad.   Just do the right thing, living healthily and you'll hang around for a long time, maybe getting younger, and I mean 40, 30s...etc.

 

Before I go, I'll throw out another controversial point of diversion;  that you don't need probiotic because the small intestine is full of acid (or it supposes to be).   Your probiotic doesn't make sense to me because extraction of nutrients is through chemical (enzymes and HCL, cooking to denature protein), and physical (chewing)

 

Logically yours,

 

Chan

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  • OK, sorry for following up to myself but my proof by induction of sort.   You're telling me that you got these things in your cranium for 50, 70 or 80 years?   Get out of here!   I think there's a dynamic going on - you got some loose ones :) - and you cleared them.    At some point, you got more loose ones than you able to clear them fast enough.    So no, there is no accumulation of dead brain cells, otherwise it'd be too heavy to sit up straight.   Talking about blood-brain barrier and devising some ways to get senolytics in there is just too mind bogging.

     

    So because the brain is not a dumpster, there's no need to get the trash out.   It takes care of itself.

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  • I think you are wrong about senolytics.  The body accumulates damaged and un-repairable senescent cells that should be subject to aptosis, but instead hang around to create inflammation and induce their neighbors to go senescent too.  NMN won't fix that.

    However, I'm curious as to how you get your NMN (or something else that produces it) and how much you take how often.

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  • I should take blood tests to find out about my inflammation markers but I have a feeling, I don't have any sugar in my blood stream and sugar is pro-inflammatory so I think my body has less inflammation with NMN (I'm onto NR now).  A pill of bitter melon used to knock me out cold now 3 pills doesn't do anything.   Bitter melon has what called "p-insulin" that reduces sugar in the blood stream and the body responds by shutting down (no cheap fuel, shutting down).

    And I'm inspired by sublingual delivery nowadays so I break up the NR capsules and mix with the squeezee water bottle I bought and refill to 1/4 of it.   I have a small sip every now and then for one or two capsules and it lasts about half a day.  I don't swallow the sip immediately.   And I shake up the bottle with each sip to mix the drug evenly in water.

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  • Chan said:
    And I'm inspired by sublingual delivery nowadays so I break up the NR capsules and mix with the squeezee water bottle I bought and refill to 1/4 of it.   I have a small sip every now and then for one or two capsules and it lasts about half a day.  I don't swallow the sip immediately.   And I shake up the bottle with each sip to mix the drug evenly in water.

    I sure don't like Chan 's sassy attitude in most of his posts here, but I do appreciate his innvative method of sublingual delivery.   Now wondering what else might be successfully delivered that way.  And which ones might be safely combined into the same bottle.

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  • I'm going to add an important thing to my thinking and that's rejuvenation of the digestive system.   I think this is the most abused organ in the body and as a result, it's dysfunction is a major cause of aging.

    One can either fast to allow the digestive system to rest and heal, or one can take digestive supplements (enzymes, and HCL), and eat everything, or combine fasting and supplements.

    The reason one's diet need to be diverse because each organ has needs for different kind of food and it's difficult to manage for the adequate supply of all nutrients that all parts of the body need.

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      • BobM
      • BobM
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Chan 

      Hi Chan, FYI, I agree and I think you would find The Plant Paradox or Longevity Paradox by Dr Stephen Gundry very interesting reads. The concepts in these books will tie together the thoughts you have here. Implementing the diet practices therein made THE most significant impact on my health of anything talked about on this board. 

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  • So, anybody that meditates will live to be 120?  Meditation may be great for your health, but you'll need more than that.

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      • Chan
      • Chan
      • 7 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Karl No, I don't think telomere lengthening is the right approach, it could be but it's just not in my line of thinking.   I think telomeres lengthen by themselves because the enzyme telomeres is present in the food we eat. 

      I just want to restate my thinking on immortality:

      1.   Take NMN for energy boosting and DNA repair.

      2.  Take digestive enzymes and eat everything, and work out lightly (10 minutes jogging in house) .   Complete digestion will allow for adequate supply of nutrients that all parts of the body need and each requires different nutrient (bone requires calcium, skin - vitamin E and Biotin)

       

      Anti aging at this point is too complex and just like weight loss, each approach is similar to a diet fad.   The above regiment is my own fad.

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      • Karl
      • Karl.1
      • 7 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Chan agree that a lot of this is a “fad” at this point.

      I’m not impressed by the data so far on NR/NMN.

       I’m thinking long term answer is DNA therapy and telomere therapy. Senolytics and mTor inhibitors are our bridge to longer term therapy.

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  • Anti aging is too complex, it's impossible to be wrong.

    I want to be wrong so I can improve on my approaches to anti-aging.

    Suppose you load up with Rapamycin and you feel better, does it means everything else doesn't matter?   No, everything else still matters.   For example, you're unfortunate to  get hit with a good dose of long half-life ionizing radiation and with biofeedback the radiation will recirculate and damage your DNA at a rate that moves your aging forward faster than you can move it backward with Rapamycin, then your approach to anti-aging is wrong.   Your approach here should be figuring out ways to get rid of the radiation.   Rapamycin may divert energy from that effort and it would be wrong.

    Suppose you discovered an awesome senolytic and it kills all senescent cells.   Are you chelating them off your system?   (Assume chelating even works and I'll research this soon), then assume the radiation that made your cell senescent is going to recirculate and kill or make other cells sennecent.   In this case, it may be better leaving your senessent cells alone so it will hold the radiation there, maybe limiting its damaging effects.

    If sugar spikes are causing damages to your cells then suppress it.

    Suppose you have a vaccine but you keep living in an environment where you're constantly bombarded with virus, then your immunity is going to degrade because antibodies aren't free.   It takes a lot of energy to make them, on top of other life processes that require constant attention.

    So I want to state my approach - and I apologize that I'm saying something that can't be wrong - that we do whatever necessary to obtain a high ratio of healthy vs damaged cells.

    If a patient has some long term disease that makes him look very old and then he recovered, he then looks very youthful, then I'd say he achieved anti-aging gain.

    One possible explanation is that a sick person eats very little, allowing for his body to get rid of toxic substance accumulation in his system.   This allows healthy cells to thrive afterward.

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      • Chan
      • Chan.1
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Chan Why is there so much interest in Rapamycin?   I think because it suppresses adaptive immunity and this frees up stem cells for other functions, such as whole body rejuvenation.   This tells me that if we could find a way to grow our own B cells and inject them then we could restore immunity to youthful levels.   And this could be another path achieve anti-aging.   Or maybe we could figure out a supplement to boost stem cells production?    

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      • Chan
      • Chan.1
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Chan I find the explanation that dogs live shorter life than human because their telomeres are shorter than that of human not very helpful.    I don't think telomere length is a way to anti-aging.   I think because dogs are creatures of instinct and being closer to the ground, they're constantly challenged with massive doses of pathogens.   This does a number on their adaptive immunity.   If they were to become civilized like Brian in "Family Guy", I think they would live longer.   :)        

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    • Chan rapamycin is of interest because it’s only the second therapy to prove extended lifespan (caloric restriction is the other). It suppresses mTor as does CR. Study papers of Mikhail. blagosklonny

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  • To all:

    One thing being demonstrated by the COVID-19 quarantine is more clear air to breath.          Modern society (industrialization) has loaded air, water and soil with pollutants; pollutants that were never around 500 years ago. Soils. are increasingly depleted of nutriuents. It takes a very long time to evolve in ways to cope. Logically; the quest to significantly lengthen human life span must take pollution into account. Our elected leaders, both left and right politic, appear to ignore both the impact of pollution toward shortening human life span as well as the fact that our nation has no credible National Anti-aging Plan {NA2P). Logically, a credible plan would have a "Monitor and assess self-test and preparedness" task. Self-testers should have easy access to a secure data base that list what is being done and with what results. Tax breaks appear as incentive. Perhaps an "already tried with what results" file would be of great aid. Sort of a "Don't build your own rocket to prove the curvature of the Earth and crash avoidance warning? Better to simply take a high altitude commercial flight.  That gets us to testing.  Testing should be affordable and highly available. Self-test could be assigned a number for progress and test results be put in public records in a secure file. Statistical analyses of results is just good business; e.g., the good and wise business of seriously extending human life spans requires organized useable data. Goals of average ages of 90. 100. 120; 130---400; etc., years need to be set. National COVID-19 tasks and concept appear flawed. Please correct if wrong; one sees no NA2P. There are no life span goals. Even worse: one sees no worse case analysis. Point being; if COVID-19 is as persistent as smallpox or polio; vaccines should be given every human on earth. That is worse case; however, that contingency isn't currently being discussed at national or global decision levels. No planning apparent. $2+ trillion? No real credible planning?? I.G. fired? Is this a bad fiction story? Demand more. COVID-19 isn't credibly funded if worse case appears. Doesn't appear to even consider vaccinating every human on earth.

    Fact: human life spans are shorter today than a decade ago; additionally, they are shorter now than before COVID-19. Apparently our nation; nor any other country, has a NA2P? As. such; it should not be a surprise that humans will not survive the singularity. A society that cannot set goals for longer life spans and work toward those goals is intellectually flawed and governed by the dim witted. Ha! Opps! How dare to say that! Now go say it yourself. Feel less anxious? Ha! Ha! Screaming medicates anxiety in strange ways. See the humor?

    One must keep a sense of humor.  However; one must act in such a way to cause better rules for the game of living longer. The odds must be made better for longer life spans. The object of deterrents to human death and acts to achieve preparedness; in the end; is longer and higher quality life spans. Salutes and praise to all.

    There is much in the existing research that discourages drinking alcohol when COVID-19 infected. A gargle may be wise. Ask a wise MD. 70% alcohol in the stomach by volume would be lethal.  Common sense should prevail; no test required.

    Thanks to all of you. Suggest writing the elected and demanding longer life spans for votes. Use all available research when planning self-test. Consult, credibly test, witness and report. Maybe we need a standard self-test report? Analysis without organized data is largely useless.

    Your thoughts?

    Have a wonderful day.

    Steven Jacobs

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  • Curious? What % of the $2+ trillion do you each think should be set aside and put into a NA2P to actually extend human life spans? Should it be assigned to a Manhattan like Project?. Should the tax payer $ be accountable, metrics set. task assigned? Individual people made accountable? Should that plan allow mission redirection; reorganization, consolidation; etc., of various agencies involved in COVID-19 and other disease eradication? Re-allocation and better focus of all health care funding? Should it have mission teeth? Should it be shielded from political whim; but, highly accountable to the people?

    Recognize that COVID-19 is but a sub-task in such a plan and, at present, no government NA2P exist in concept other than herein our brains. There is no NA2P; no Czar; no Manhattan like Project; no agency; no Cabinet Member--pretty much zip.

    So what %?

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  • Steven Jacobs said:
    One thing being demonstrated by the COVID-19 quarantine is more clear air to breath.          Modern society (industrialization) has loaded air, water and soil with pollutants; pollutants that were never around 500 years ago. Soils. are increasingly depleted of nutriuents. It takes a very long time to evolve in ways to cope. Logically; the quest to significantly lengthen human life span must take pollution into account. Our elected leaders, both left and right politic, appear

    Steve, I agree that pollutants shorten lifespan.    It took me this long to realized this and I first talked about this in relation to dogs being so close to the ground and pick up contaminants so easy.   They end up having shorter lifespan (according to my thinking anyway)

    My first attempt at  remeding this situation is clean biodome.    You go in to get younger (assume at some point or if it's a reality already) then go back out to the polluted world.

    Steven Jacobs said:
    hortening human life span as well as the fact that our nation has no credible National Anti-aging Plan {NA2P). Logic

    I guess this can be done but there will be debates on so many side topics such as whether the roles of government will be limited or not.

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  • I agree there will be debates; there should be with public programs. It is however obvious that so far the government is content to allow human life spans to decrease.

    There is no NA2P. None. In fact; US citizens experience shorter average life spans today; than a decade ago.

    It is an interesting phenomenon that our tax laws allow deductions for robot maintenance, repair, refurbishment; etc; but, not so much with a human body.

    There is profoundly less testing required for industrial chemical approval than drug approval. Policy is defective. 

    To me; it would be reasonable to put policy and laws on the book that assure that all our water is drinkable; including lakes, rivers, streets; etc. I know that sounds liberal and whacky; but, it is a goal. Imagine being able to catch a non-polluted fish and eat it. As it is; Spanish mackerel, and many on many other fish from the Gulf of Mexico are too polluted to eat every day. In fact of fact; being able to fish for a meal without worrying that the meal could kill; is a noble objective. No better way to distribute a fresh food supply. Much of our farm land is polluted as well. Today; soil is more often not allowed to heal and replenish naturally. 

    Note: It takes a serious amount of toxins to pollute the Gulf of Mexico. Lots of leaking oil wells and ships dumping oil; bilge water, and other contaminates. Lots of jobs in cleanup.

    Some of the chemicals in air and water reduce male and female fertility as well as seriously mess with hormones. One would think it would be more concerning to the public. 

    Funny, I once had a conversation with an acquaintance about a herbicide. He said: "At that amount it would take 130 years to kill you. I asked: "What if I want to live to 150?" Today;  the same chemical is known to cause cancer. Go figure?

    It requires better and more human simulations to really understand the impact on human bodies. Logically, an NA2P would have tasks for such research and analyze impacts on the human body; prior allowing new human life span shortening products in the market.

    Yeah: sounds controlling. However; the object is to increase human life span; not, shorten it. Simply put; we owe it to ourselves to be able to live longer and with high quality lives. Here in is advocated science based decisions rather than champaign donation based decisions.

    The quarantines have resulted in far more clear air. Maybe people will like it enough to support wiser policy?

    It is concerning that it appears human attrition vice virus eradication is the current approach to COVID-19 management. I do not believe that 20% death rate of infected older people is acceptable attrition policy foundation or that opening schools early and accepting a 3+% attrition rate is good national policy. It appears as better good sense policy to expedite COVID-19 virus eradication from all humans. The same policy decision process of acceptance of attrition vs choosing toxic product eradication for pollutants is a decision process. Logically; credible pursuit of longer human life spans has to be a decision factor;  and, when that is taken into account--some toxic products will be outlawed.

    The issue is that to achieve longer human life spans; they decision process must consider length of human life in the decision process.

    The decision process gets more acute if a goal of 200 years average human life span is sought.

    The concept of a national Manhattan like Mission to increase human life spans isn't proposed herein lightly. It is overdue and serious business. 

    For sure via common sense $2+ trillion for an attrition based policy for COVID-19 is outrageous. There is obviously no NA2P or any credibly fiscally traceable to scheduled results planning.

    Longer and healthier human life spans will do more for the economy than anything else. We have to demand longer lives. Longer human life spans is logically the highest priority.

    Hummm?? Take the number of human diseases and multiply by $2+ trillion? Ridiculous. The CARES Act lacks focus. It has no credible plan for eradication of COVID-19 or for a NA2P to prevent or cure all diseases or to achieve anti-aging. $2+ trillion is serious money--all our money. This $2+ trillion doesn't even eradicate COVUD-19.

    Even more ridiculous; accept shorter human life spans.

    Well duh?

    Hummm again? Huntsville, Alabama is apparently planning on mostly opening up again in 2 weeks? It hasn't even reached the peak yet. There will likely be a bump up 2 months after the 1st hump passes. In a sine curve; there are as many infected cases and deaths after the peak. Go figure??

    Out of mindness = out of hand. The COVID-19 mess we have will likely get worse. Tragic situation. Something we must watch. The preparedness for COVID-19 may be needed sooner than thought if this virus asserts itself in an opened up economy.

    Conclusion: Present situation; broke. Our nation can and must do better than this. So too should all other nations. We need eradication of COVID-19 and an anti-aging mission and assignment of that mission and an NA2P to credibly and transparently manage that human life span increase mission to success. COVID-19 is a logical subtask in the NA2P. 

    Sorry; COVID-19 isn't over (my independent opine).

    Part of remedy is to establish anti-aging mission and establish NA2P and budget, fund and execute the mission to increase (let's say double) human life spans in 5 years.

    A goal set herein (2X--Double human life span in 5 years). Maybe we need to meet that goal sooner? We went to the moon didn't we?

    Goals must be set. Such a decision and mission would be the greatest boom to global economy ever in human existence. The oceans can be farmed. The oceans can support new floating cities. 3/4 of the planet is covered with water. Lots of room to house and feed more humans. Turn the great ocean garbage patches into floating cities. Lots of jobs. The technology to design and float a city already exist. 

    To live longer; we simply have to think differently. We have to set goals and exceed them in actual delivered performance. 

    Keep safe distances. Political leaders that value the economy over human lives will end up with less human lives and with a more endangered economy. That is the way pandemics work.

    Your thoughts?

    Steven Jacobs

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  • Government roles must always be limited. Capitalism works; but, also can be abusive and not accountable.

    Never trust government. However; government is credibly necessary to put a human on Mars; and it is also necessary to achieve anti-aging. A National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P) is absolutely necessary to hold a mission to increase human life spans to account to the people. Schedule, tasks, subtask, who is responsible, budgets: etc., all the smart and wise management stuff to credibly achieve goals.

    The words "Over-arching" are important to note. Most of the NA2P resources exist in bits and pieces already. There is just no over-arching mission or NA2P to make it happen.  

    One must pose the questions: (1) "Do people want to live exceptionally longer in high quality health or put someone on Mars?; (2) "Is a policy of "attrition" to mediate COVID-19 all that can be delivered for $2+ trillion?; (3) "When does "global eradication of COVID-19" come into play?"; (4) "Why isn't there a Manhattan like Project to assure human life spans double?" 

    Am I blind? I see no answers.

    It appears that the best economic approach is to take the necessary steps to double human life spans in 5 years. Reason; less cost and lives lost to disease. Keeping humans in productive and active lives longer is the best approach to improving the national as well, as global economy. 

    A policy of COVID-19 "attrition" acceptance yields indiscriminate loss of human resource (lives). Not good economic or military policy (in a democracy) in the long run.

    A policy of attrition sustains a military state and denies freedom. Suspend Congress???

    The COVID-19 policy also has to include eradication and prevention as well, as preparedness. Simple good sense.

    For $2+ trillion; more must be delivered; including a NA2P.

    Conclusion: Situation broke.

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  • Steven Jacobs said:
    Government roles must always be limited. Capitalism works; but, also can be abusive and not accountable.
    Never trust government. However; government is credibly necessary to put a human on Mars; and it is also necessary to achieve anti-aging. A National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P) is absolutely necessary to hold a mission to increase human life spans to account to the people. Schedule, tasks, subtask, who is responsible, budgets: etc., all the smart and wise management stuff to credibly achieve goals.

     Steve,

    Locking down a country is incredibly easy to do if one has power.   It's also a quick way to avoid responsibility because taking blame for possibly fanning the pandemic is a huge political, maybe personal risk.    Taking blame is potentially personal and materially costly while locking things up costs nothing and the government expended nothing to exercise that power.

    Rather than keep taking the other side of the argument, I'll remind you of those trillions that just "got lost", or million dollar toilet seats, and the list go on and on.   I'll speculate that people are creatures of expediency and their priorities hardly ever match mine.   If government wants to quickly squash the virus, then experts will introduce models to show just one person can cause massive infection in the population.  Then it's for the good of the public, why not lock that person up?   How about just shoot him.   That may just happen in the Philippines.

    You should trust me a lot more than the government because I only recently practiced humility.   If you become too dependent of me then I'll try to get rid of you, so be forewarned and try to be useful to me.  

    I'm part of the first wave of people and I got a direct deposit in my account yesterday.   If this continues, I will be dependent on the government and at some point, they will get rid of me.   I have the self introspection to warn you that I may get rid of you.   I doubt the government would.

    I want to be humble because fighting back is ugly and winning just means my existence may be cut short.    People like me should be leading the government that you envisioned but I don't have much social capitals and I get picked last in high school PE.    I'm not living in a bitter past, I'm way beyond that.   But those selections continue throughout our lives and only a few people like me notice that because we were picked last.   So don't give the government more power, the number of people being picked last would certainly increase and there'll be a whole lot of injustice.   Let me figure my own way and if you want, let me in charge of your life, not the government.

    And I apologize for being wordy here but the level of learning and discovery on forum like this and many others is incredible.    The government is way behind the individuals on anti-aging.   If they get involved, they would lock up many of these people.   For the time being, they are only interested in locking up medications, forcing people to procure fake drugs from India and possibly risk their lives in the process.

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  • Government of the people, by the people and for the people.

    Be it life span increases, COVID-19 eradication, or protecting the Bill of Rights and/or protecting the USA Constitution; we must all work together for the common good. We do not need a King; but, it appears that there is a role for government. Good sense is always required. Over-arching managers and mission assignments and plans are the foundation of getting real progress and delivering complex goods, services and the general well being of our nation as well as global well being through good example.

    There is no such thing in this effort as not called on or discrimination for any reason. Everyone is considered as 1st in line. Freedom of Speech is honored and supported. You are guaranteed that right by the Bill of Rights and the USA Constitution.

    Thank you for your comment. Participation of all is important. This is a project in work; not final concept or plan laydown. Patience and tolerance are appreciated.

    Again; thanks.

    Steven Jacobs

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