Preparations for self-treating COVID-19

     The mortality rate of the aged population from COVID-19 is very high, around 20% for the over-80 group of which I and my wife are members.  Further, if medical facilities are limited and physicians are forced to make triage decisions, the 80+ will be last in line.  Therefore, it seems prudent to be prepared to self-medicate in case COVID-19 symptoms should appear.  How can this be done?

     A French group has done a rather limited study (LINK) of COVID-19 patients indicating that administering the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine (dose:  200 mg, three/day) in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin (dose: 500 mg for day 1, then 250 mg/day for next 4 days) produces spectacular recoveries.   The graph below shows their results:

 On this basis, I have ordered 30 x 200 mg hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) tablets and 60 x 250 mg azithromycin (Zithromax) tablets from pharmacies in India.  I hope I never have to use them for me or my family, but it seems prudent to be prepared.

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  • Some suggest taking chloroquine as a profylactic. As if you were to go into an area were there is great risk for chloroquine-sensitive malaria. A profylactic approach is an option for people in high risk groups, at least if it gets really bad. Or if you have to be close to people that has COVID19 and you can not distance yourself in a safe way. For instance if someone close to you gets a mild form and still is at home needing your help. or if you work in hospital and they run out of qualified protective gear.

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  •      First, chloroquine (recently promoted by Trump) has some known negative side effects like liver damage and macular degeneration of the eyes that would be best to avoid.  Also, there was a report that even a dose of about 1,000 mg of chloroquine can be fatal.

         It's derivative hydroxychloroquine, which was used in the French study and which I ordered, has reduced side effects and perhaps is safer.  In any case, I would avoid taking either unless I was developing COVID-19 symptoms.

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  • My wife has been taking Plaquenil for 15 years 400 mg/day. Risk is possible vision problems but these are supposed to occur only after 5 years of daily usage. She has stockpiled some since we travel full time and don’t have access to pharmacies all the time.

    I think it’s a lot safer than some therapies users in this group try. 

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  • JGC  - could you perhaps share the link to the pharmacies in India where you purchased these two items? Ditto on not using them unless you're developing COVID-19 symptoms.  

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      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 1 yr ago
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      Gary Gilley 

          Last week I bought the azithromycin from the Online Drugstore, and the hydrochloroquine from Trust Pharmacy.  I found the latter after trying various other Indian pharmacies that were completely sold out.  I hope they still have some.

          I have not yet received either order.

      Like 2
    • JGC Thanks really appreciate the reply and info. It took me forever to get a shipment of Dasatinib from Beacon Medicare Limited, Dhaka, Bangladesh but it finally came thru. Well worth the wait though 30 x 100mg for $220 + shipping. 

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    • Gary Gilley Hello, I would like you to help me.
      How about beaconpharma with dasatinib? is trustworthy?
      have you tried it already?
      What symptoms have you had?

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    • Pablo Reinaldos López Yes, I had no problems with them at all. Only email communications though, but very responsive. It took me about a month to receive the delivery. They take care of customs on their end and I didn't have any problems on my end. Have not used the product yet though. First started with D&Q August last year, then again mid December and I'll be doing my 3rd with this one fairly soon. So far, no side effects whatsoever. Also do weekly Rapa. They only take wire payments but use this link for payment which is much cheaper than a bank. Don't know where you're located but on my end (USA Maryland) it's $50 for an international wire. They don't give you any choice with shipping. For US customers they only use EMS - $65 additional

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    • Gary Gilley. so you've already done two cycles, one in August and the other in December ... Have you noticed beneficial effects, on the skin, on your body with those two previous cycles? 

      Do you know of someone who has tried beacon before and is happy?

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    • Pablo Reinaldos López Yes I have, totally anecdotal of course. Some with skin, and areas I've been experiencing pain at for a very long time have completely vanished. I stress anecdotal because I'm 74 and I've been throwing the kitchen sink at it so to speak. Ozone insufflation, NAD+, GDF-11, Fiestin, Rapa & D+Q and lots of supplements.

      August 2019 I used Morgan Levine's excel spreadsheet to determine biological age and it's telling me I'm biologically 52, and that was before I started using Rapamycin, Senolytics (D+Q), NAD+, Fiestin etc.

      So I'd be disappointed and perhaps a little surprised if I don't get a much better score when I retest again in a couple of months. 

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    • Pablo Reinaldos López No, I don't know anyone that's used Beacon before and is happy.

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    • Gary Gilley 

       

      I'm 76 to be 77 in August. I take 2500mg metformen daily. Take a lot of supplements as well. Still trying to lay out a plan. 

      Like 1
  • David Sinclaire say that metformin is on the list of drugs for potential COVID-19 drugs. Don't know what he backs up this idea with. But at least it means that metformin is not on the list of drugs that could make  Covid-19  disease worse. 

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  • azithromycin will only attack open cells, remdesivir will  actually do something, antibiotics will only attack bacteria or virus casings that match bacterial binding sites, 

    azithromycin is only to protect against bacteria taking advantage of weakened state due to viral infection, azithromycin is a red herring when looking to protect a healthy patient. keep your zinc uptake globulins healthy with vitamin d3 and hope a serum antigen and vaccine are on the way!

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      • Karl
      • Karl.1
      • 1 yr ago
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      Steven Jacobs I don’t think the final word on Zithromax is in. Zithromax has properties beyond being an antibiotic and it may be its anti inflammatory property that helps.

      Just as hydroxychloroquine likely helps as an anti inflammatory.

      Like 2
    • Karl Steven Jacobs  Zithromax is a senolytic - there is a video I posted in the senolytic thread describing that effect

      Like 2
    • Paul Beauchemin 

      Paul,

      Thanks greatly.

      Apologize for too many words. Trying to lay out concept. Trying not to be political in a politically charged field that involves government denials and lack of focused action. Trying to encourage a: "Do something now is possible belief." The recent Congressional Act is not a plan. It is an Emergency fiscal initiative that likely isn't going to deliver near term mid or long term results. It is immediate response in panic; not credible planning or full perspective.

      It is interesting that the USA leadership left and right politic continues to ignore that we have no National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P). Our President and Congress just pushed out over $2 trillion to remedy the economic impact and COVID-19 threat; yet, no NA2P exist? In fact the average life span of US citizens has been decreasing for over a decade. Logically; an NA2P would have a sub-task of prevention and cure of new viruses (that includes COVID-19). The conclusion is there exist failed national planing for health care and sustaining humans' lives.The conclusion is also that absent a credible plan; prioritization of funding and budgeting leaves humans vulnerable because national resources cannot be credibly directed toward the goal of increasing human life spans. A clear example of failed national fiscal health allocation is the challenge of countering the COVID-19 threat. Our military receives $billions every year; so to does many other agencies; all of whom are charged with national health. Oddly, looking at the Federal State and local budgets; no where exist a $billion to solve the mystery of human aging. No NA2P; no budget; etc.

      Our national intelligence budget is huge and there are many upon many dedicated individuals making it the global best; this COVID-19 thing isn't a surprise. It is a communication, listening, and appropriate action failure. That issue must be fixed.

      As far as I'm concerned; human anti-aging science is proven by a few prime examples. That is enough to declare mission and assign it. The statistics that equate to 100's of years of proven human life extension success isn't available; but, extrapolations are tools of current science. Extrapolations are statistical useable. They are used all the time in defense weapon system designs. There are increasing commercial products on the market; especially, for the human brain; but, our nation still has no NA2P. From the policy and management perspective; a government NA2P should aid the competitive and capitalist initiative; but, there should also be in-government focus to catalyze attainment of the goal that human life spans increase in a fast manner. Human life span increase is very important to the fundamental existence of humans. Technology is more focused on shortening the time emergence of super intelligent machines (the Singularity); than, extending human life spans. COVID-19 is a global threat to human life.

      Remedy to COVID-19 as well as human aging, is necessarily global. Governments have no national plans or budgets or policy for NA2P's. Planning, put together properly; COVID-19 prevention and cure is just another subtask in a, in our case,  NA2P. One really doesn't have to care what such a human life plan is officaly called; however, the fact that no plan exist indicates that political and buracratic leadership has failed. We collectively have to face that fact and fix the problem.

      Conclusion: perhaps age reversal should have national (even also global) policy and planning initiatives. Logically; also we must work toward lobbying and initiate a letter writing champaign for causation of competent government NA2P establishment. A few $billions into all phases of research would be easy to achieve by a simple Executive Order or government leader Directive or Congressional Act. Actually, even the Security of Defense could establish one for our military IAW Directive or Executive Order. Orders are done all the time. The President can direct by Executive Order. Simply put; The President could just direct that all health Agencies and the Dept of Defense give 2% of existing budget toward establishment of the new national organization with mission to vastly extend US citizens life spans. The new organization would have mission for establishment and funding of a new agency with national responsibility for establishing and execution of the NA2P. This new organization could then give 1% back to revelant organizations where it makes sense for execution of assigned subtasks of the NA2P. Since Federal dollars flow down to States and properties and possessions; those organizations also establish missions and execute them IAW policy and directives. Point being; it is credibly possible to quickly establish and focus a new government organization to quickly establish and assign and part back missions to achieve establishment and execution of the NA2P. Is not credibly increasing human life span a high priority in the face of the emerging singularity and virus and bio attacks spawned by global warming, natural evolution and known (also unknown) military threats? The same "colors" of money that the US Department of Defense is structured to manage would conceptually work; e.g., all categories of research, development, production; logistics; etc. Humm? Model fiscal apparatus on the Defense Appropriations Act? Our nation spends $billions of defense $ on training and keeping alive soldiers and well; but, has no defense department sub-NA2P to a national plan. The money is there; it just isn't mission focused or planned or overseen or credibly directed and therefore cannot be managed or directed responsibly. The fix for that is reasonably self-evident. Create and assign mission. assure mission accountably. 

      There are many on many government and commercial labs and organizations; but, no national focus to direct use toward tasks for extending human life spans.

      The FDA & others need not apply. Take $ from them and give back in an assigned manner and measure performance against actual delivered and focused assigned tasks or remove it for malfeasance.

      To establish credible human life span increases; therein government is already most of the human & fiscal resources and facilitation.  All new government organizations have growing pains. It starts with mission assignment. Think Space Force. All it takes is a Directive; Executive Order. The details will be worked out later. The money is already there and can be carved out as discussed herein.

      Since we are talking $billions (likely $ trillions over time) credibly focused on serious increases in human life span; we are acknowledging a vital national need (extending human life span to 100 years, 200; 300; etc).; then, logically prevention and cure of COVID-19 is a small part of that mission assignment. COVID-19 is mutating and re-infecting. Congressionally politically flash flooding & throwing $trillions into the market is not fiscally responsible or accountable in good management principles or policy. Better than staying in denial; but, loose. 

      The proposed mission, organization for creation and execution of the NA2P could bring needed organization and planning into place. That is desperately needed. 

      In Department of Defense weapon systems acquisition policies, rules & regulations makes sure that the prototype isn't intentionally destroyed by fail-bad testing (with some minor exceptions for final prove out)  Pseudo approaches for human clinical trials are unethical and slow down product delivery by years. Logically; improving better human software simulations is mandatory to quickly increasing human life spans and proving out new drugs, herb mixes; etc. National policy must increase human trials; but, not damage those in the trials.

      We cannot wait 100+ years before declaring small victories in increasing human life spans. We must make the case we have enough progress to commit to a NA2P and mission assignment; e. g., an all the boiler plate stuff to make success happen institutionally and deliver credible results fast.

      Our nation needs a Manhattan Project like focus with serious resources and highest priority. As discussed; start up is just Executive decision. Start up is doable. The resources are there; the mission is doable; but, only, if credibly organized, and mission assigned, and resourced. Actions require organization, assignments and planning. Results must be scheduled, focused, and progress monitored, reported and measured. Best business practices are wise and necessary. Not political gamesmanship.

      No NA2P = no sustainable remedy to increasingly decreasing human life span. In the mid term (not long term); it is super intelligent machine service life and upgrades versus human life span. There are plenty of predictions on when the singularity will be in full fruition; it is already in early phases. Yeah; scary.

      COVID-19 is just a wake up call. Telling old citizens to die in interest of defeating COVID-19 and supporting the economy is foul minded.

      Global warming will deliver new virus and bacteria threats to humans. The NA2P must have proactive subtasks to stand ready and act quickly in prevention and cure. Point being; humans are in a continued active emergency and must have sustainable active defenses and remain in preparedness. Again; COVID-19 is just a wake up call.

      We have got to get Bill Faloon, Elon Musk, and many credible others speaking & proposing government policy and pushing sane government mission; functions and organization. Congressional Acts must be created and signed into law. Start up $billions (even $trillions) are there for many initiatives and amazing advances; but, only if we take initiative. The capitalist market must yield affordable results and sustainably continue the fight against human aging. From that perspective; COVID-19 is just one in a continuing line of new and old threats to human life span and those threats must be met to extend quality human life span increases. 

      From my simple view; death is just wasted good human adventure on planet Earth. Heaven or whatever will take care of itself. I'll spend my life in care and concern for others. That said; I have freedom longest.

      Lets commit to serious life span increases and seeking to never die. Set serious goals and attain them. The proposed NA2P must be based on goals and successes toward attainment measurable and forecast. Therein is a new economy with human life span increases payback. That is sound economic policy. That is not welfare; it is just applied common sense and good government and commercial management and business. management. It is personally wise.

      Interestingly; we have to take up the policy, planning. budgeting, organization, resourcing, facilitating; etc. missions; including law changes challenge. That must logically be part and parcel to seriously increasing quality human life span mission success. Yeah; it appears to me that the Age-Reversal and Rescue Elders folks (and many others) can have a voice.

      In perspective; the senolytic testing and products are part and parcel to the greater NA2P initiative. one of many on many task in the NA2P. Planned, budgeted, funded. facilitated, resourced, assigned, and progress reported and measured on a scheduled delivery. Capitalism and government working together for credible results soonest.

      It isn't a chicken and egg issue; it is a:" Go get the chicken and eggs issue; here is the (NA2P) basket & use our own each hands & brains." Less government limits and more open doors and $. Credible policy, planning, mission and focus; etc.

      Obviously, you and many others have the wonderful brains and guts for taking action.

      Somehow, we must cause the NA2P concept initiative to yield credible results. 

      Change it up; add to it; whatever needed to make it happen. 

      Your thoughts?

      Sincerely,

      Steve

      Like
  • The word "final" is illusive. Few things are "final" word. Few drugs offer exclusion from complications. That observation offered; US policy has to recognize that maybe all US citizens and even the 12 or so millions of illegals need tested multiple times? Perhaps public policy needs to work toward a polio vaccination approach where a anti-virus sugar cube is passed out to car loads of people (the masses)? What are we looking at? 360 + 12 or so million people to vaccinate. That's a long line. Logistics are nationally challenging; globally even more so. Our government and the scientific community at large appear to need follow numerous paths-approaches at once: dodge the immediate bullet; decrease severity via immune strength actions/drugs/whatever; improved care and care equipment and staff safety; and shots, sugar cube dispensing of vaccine or whatever to prevent and aid cure & increased survival probability. Some agency should be chasing down effectiveness of whatever is proposed by whomever. It appears that the FDA isn't philosophically attuned to quick discovery. That policy deficiency appears self evident in that it refuses to recognize aging as a disease. Logically a credible National anti-aging plan would include rapid response to viruses; etc.? Both COVID-19 and aging diseases are global; the remedy must be applied globally. Otherwise; COVID-19 cycles and mutates too rapidly. Apparently, the mystery of re-infection is not solved. The numbers of potential infected and dead are disturbingly profound. People with more voice, $ and smarts than I need to scream loudly and long. Too many leaders are deaf at the global top leadership levels. Aging and COVID-19 are lethal and are diseases that must be remedied. Given the virus is mutating; perhaps better government perspective and support is needed. Perhaps it is also time to scream for anti-aging remedy? Who dares to scream for a sugar cube approach loaded with drug and/or some concoction to prevent and cure COVID-19 and/or aging? I see no government plan with tasks, milestones, schedules, figures of merit; priorities; specific budgets; clear assignments, an organized Manhattan Project approach; etc. It appears the answer to your noble question is outside my budget. Maybe we need to scream louder? For sure this horribly infectous virus won't go poof mid April. Scream???? This isn't political; it is in observation that no credible plan exist. Organization is haphazard. Where is the National Plan? Where is the budget; tasks, actions, milestones, schedules, assignees; etc.?? If we can get that up for public comment; maybe your answer will come forth? Sadly; no nation appears to have a public plan for remedy.

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  • The original French study showed good results, although the study was small.  A second French study claims good results but thorough review of it shows only questionable results. A Chinese study with the same 2 drugs showed no effect.

    something to consider before you start taking meds with potentially serious and permanent side effects.

    Like
      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Karl 

      Wrong.  The followup Chinese study used only hydroxychloroquine, for some reason.

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      • Karl
      • Karl.1
      • 1 yr ago
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      JGC I stand by my statement that a drug with dangerous side effects may or may not work.

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      • JGC
      • JGC
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Karl 

      I agree with your statement.  The French study was far from perfect and is at best a positive indication of a possible treatment.  However, it's important not to confuse the side effects of chloroquine with those of hydroxychloroquine.  The latter was developed with reduced side effects for the use of travelers to regions where malaria was common.  The impact of COVID-19 on people my age appears to be much worse than malaria.

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    • Karl All drugs are dangerous to some degree - metformin, rapamycin and Dasatanib are just a few people on this site experiment with. One of the most toxic drugs we take on a daily basis is Tylenol. Plaquenil is much less toxic than that drug and has been proven for decades. My wife has taken relatively high doses for 15 years. The dosage given in these experiments over 5 days is within that range and has a negligible chance of side effects. Making statements that its dangerous is unhelpful.

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      • Karl
      • Karl.1
      • 1 yr ago
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      Paul Beauchemin as a physician I understand every drug has side effects. And I’m glad your wife has done well on Plaquenil. But Plaqnenil is a far more dangerous drug than Tylenol. 

      Like
    • Karl  problem with most docs is they know very little out of their own specialty

      The Rheumatologists know it the best - attached is a quote from Dr Daniel Wallace.

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      • David H
      • David_Hanson
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Karl My wife was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease in 2010 (after 20 years of health problems without a diagnoses.).  The first thing her Mayo Clinic - Jacksonville rheumatologist did was prescribe Plaquenil.   He emphasized the safety of taking Plaquenil.  The only issue he mentioned was a small possibility of eye problems from long term use.  Our two sons were also on a form of chloroquine  or hydroxychloroquine from 1984 to 1987 as a malaria preventative.  My company's doctor stressed how safe chloroquine was.  We lived in Gabon for 3 years because I was a petroleum engineer helping maintain an offshore oil field.

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      • Karl
      • Karl.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Paul Beauchemin thanks for letting me know what’s wrong with all doctors.

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    • Karl With all due respect, the medical profession has brought on my skepticism by their own actions. In 50 years of dealing with doctors I have observed a strange combination of hubris coupled with ignorance of information outside what was taught in med school. Most doctors don't have time or inclination to read lots of scientific journals outside their expertise. Maybe you do, I don't know you. My self and family have suffered lots of unnecessary pain due to poor advice from doctors who refused to admit their ignorance. I'd like to sue the medical profession as a whole for this negligence.

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      • Karl
      • Karl.1
      • 1 yr ago
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      Paul Beauchemin when you use the phrase “with all due respect “, it usually means you don’t respect. Thanks for the disrespect and stereotyping me. I hope nobody does the same to you.  Oh, and I am a white male if you want to make further judgements.

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    • Karl Everybody's wrong everybody's right
      Someone must be wrong when someone else is right
      Everybody's wrong everybody's right
      You tell me that I'm wrong
      Then you tell me that I'm right

      Can't stand it, right?

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      • RobH
      • RobH
      • 1 yr ago
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      Paul Beauchemin I also have many complaints about doctors and the medical system.  But the doctors here deserve our support and admiration.  Let's not scare away the good ones.

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    • Mark Thimineur 

      you mentioned in the past you were changing your protocol going to a much higher dose of cycling rapamycin. What affects or conclusions have you noticed In regard to your health on this new protocol? If I recall you were taking points .08 kg per body weight up to .15 kg per bodyweight. Thanks 

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    • John Mcgough I've completed a trial of 0.08mg/kg up to 0.17mg/kg. Since I am 70kg this was 6mg on the low and 12mg on the high. In my individual case, I percieved problems with the higher dose in terms of decreased stamina and energy. Labwork was not much changed. It did not feel right. Taking a one month hiatus right now and, after 15 days, feel very good again. I'm going to trial a radical change in rapa dosing which requires a lengthy post. Once I obtain preliminary results (about 6 months) I'll provide the info.

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    • Mark Thimineur thanks for the update. I’ll be curious to hear how your new protocol works. I find your information useful and I use it in deciding my own experimenting with dosage. For  instance you mentioned at the higher dose in your first year you notice the greatest benefit so I’m experimenting with keeping my dose at 7mg  without cycling. I am 75 Kilos and interested to see if it increases my lymphocytes. Thanks again.

      Like
    • Mark Thimineur 

      As a patient of Dr Green I was wondering.

       

      You mentioned a aompounding pharmacy that provides rapamycin capsules for $1.00 per milligram and dastinib for $3.50 per 50mg capsule

       

      Would you mind providing the name so I can have Dr Green write a script

      Like
  • Watched a presentation by William Shaw, PhD.  His research shows a connection between Corona virus and phospholipase A2 and proposed possible treatment to prevent the breakdown of lipids that the virus uses to gain access to the cell.  Such treatment involved CDP-choline (Citicoline), an OTC supplement.  From intro to the webinar:

    "The enzyme phospholipase A2 (PLA2) is one of the most important enzymes involved in the destruction of life by microorganisms and venomous animals such as snakes, wasps, spiders, and bees. Some viruses produce their own PLA2 while the corona virus family hijacks the PLA2 of the cells they are infecting to increase the replication of virus particles. In this webinar, Dr. Shaw will review evidence in the literature regarding PLA2 and viruses. He will also discuss some of the most effective treatments for elevated PLA2, which may be helpful in reducing the damage done by viruses, including those in the corona family."

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  • PLEASE NOTE:  CHLOROQUINE/HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE does not interact with any virus including the Covid-19 virus.  They act as ionophores for zinc which interferes with the replication process of various viruses.  So they are zinc ionophores.  Chemicals that open gateways for zinc to enter your cells.  There are other ionophores for zinc.  Quercetin is one and can be found over the counter (internet).  No prescription needed.  It is not as strong as the fore mentioned but buy it with the additive Bromelain and take with vitamin C and you'll get an extra kick as they make quercetin more bioavailable to your body.  Take this as a prophylactic and enjoy your life.  I do, unafraid. 

    NOTE: just in-South Korean researchers tested Quercetin and zinc in vitro and found it 100% effective against Covid-19.  Once you understand they work as ionophores, you'll understand why some tests come back showing no effect and others come back showing great effect. They test them in vitro without the presence of zinc-bad results or after the body is dying (on respirators) from complications not addressed by Chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine. 

    Hope this will clear up more than your concerns about your help and stimulate your minds to wonder why we're here in the first place when this info has been around quite awhile.  As this evolves, we must take the news, politicians and health organizations to task.  Be smart-be well.  

    Rod  

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  • Rodney,

    What % each/pound of body weight for prevention? What's you wholistic best guess?

    What % each/pound of body weight for when breathing difficulties first appear? What's your best wholistic guess?

    Since testing isn't a kit the government passes out for home testing (complete with How to do home video); maybe it should be?

    Point being government long term failure to work directly with the people has adverse impact. Government (should) being of, for, and by the people.. 

    How to test? Needs to be Dick and Jane Doe simple.

    Current government approach leaves the people out of the self-help game. 

    Mass data collection via honor system into secure data base? E. g., collect: 1. daily body temp reduction from time of onset?; 2. Frequency of coughing/10 minutes?; 3. Frequency of chills & time duration duration?; 4. What else?

    The COVID-19 is a mass attack.  There will be others as mutations occur & as the ice melts. Yet, no systematic or responsive e-based public data system is in existence. Looks like government policy is void and action less. So, maybe we need some app & e-site for data collection.

    It increasingly becomes self-evident that many government leaders knew of the threat far earlier than admitted to. Fact the leaders get daily threat briefings. The area of concern is always in highly classified domestic and foreign briefings. That is standard protocol. Obviously; electing people to serve the unelected is not put well in place. Mass leadership failure.

    Message therein appears to be we need some sort of failsafe secure public means to sustainably report and data collect. Since the government won't collect data and early warn until after insiders make strategic stock decisions; maybe the public needs some independent secure data bases? No data; no analyses; no early warnings. Clearly; the existing system is broke.

    Policy broke; infrastructure broke; data base not existent.  Summation; It's broke.

    Maybe: "The Age-Reversal for Self Help and Death Avoidance" needs: 1. a "Symptoms Reporting" secure e-file; 2. a "How To Self-Diagnose" Section; complete with instructions; 3. A "Self-test Dendritic; 4. a "What to do until a MD confirms"; and a "What to do if no MD can come and there is no medical facility" section?

    Clearly; there isn't enough (planned or provided) test kits existing or planned by government. Clearly; national health situational awareness is broke.  Government is broke & there is no credible plan to by it to fix it.

    That gets us back to understanding your immediate independent self-help recommendations and noble self-help clinical trials & data collection.

    Dosage recommendation specifics needed.

    Obviously; everything needs to be failsafe. E. g., "That which is done needs data collection and analysis as much as possible."

    The same is true for all personal age reversal trials.

    Age-reversal, disease avoidance and self-cure via prevention must become the new In-Vogue.

    Your thoughts & counsel?

    Thanks,

    Steve

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  • Steve, 

    You have a lot of questions and concerns.  Like me you like to look into that grey fog of what lies ahead.  That's why I was able to figure out the quercetin with bromelain answer,  at least for me.  You have not heard anything about the chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine trials because they are coming back with good news.  The media which hates Trump and would gladly sacrifice their fellow citizens to give him a black eye are refusing to report it.  It only takes five days for recovery using those drugs.  If the news was bad.  It would be reported in every news source available.  So have cheer, we are almost though this.  Once the news is out, people will be over joyed, the market will go through the roof and businesses will be back to business.

    To address your other concerns let just say we are unfortunately on a big boat with everyone else and no ability to turn this ship in any direction.  Decisions made in history drive our direction.  And yes, we are heading for and going over a waterfall.  But we must focus on today as those around us are doing the same thing.  They don't see the waterfall.  So, get your food, keep your money and focus on your loved one.  Act in a brave and quiet manner.  when all else lose their heads, they will need someone calm and thoughtful to lead. 

    Like 4
  • I am not for self-treating but during the years I developed a good partnership with my doctors and can ask and likely obtain what I want. This might be useful in the discussion with your doctor as I have it from dear friends in the north of Italy in one of the worst hit regions. Recently the mother in law of one of them has been tested positive at 92 (also being tested for antibodies to gather insight on timing of infection) and retained in the hospital with her family not (yet) put in strict quarantine but prescribed - ONLY IF FEVER HIGHER THAN 37.5 deg C (99.5 deg F) - to take hydroxychloroquine 200mg 2x in the morning and 2x in the evening on the first day and from the second day, for at least 5 days, 1x in the morning and 1x in the evening. For the all duration MDs added azithromycin 500mg per day.

    Like 2
  • I'm not an MD or PhD in this field. However; I'm focused on living forever for the wonderful ride on Earth. I'm familiar with military and planning at many levels of government. I project and product managed. So where I come from is varied background & connections. I'm informed that a local person had their MD prescribe 500mg/day of hydroxychloroquine (one per day). However, the pharmacist would not honor the MD prescription. 

    Encourage a serious licensed expert to join in the forum. Maybe an attorney as well? Has the FDA or other government entity closed down freedom of speech? Thought? MD scrips? Have they or other institutions clamped down on pharmacists? Can they not follow MD direction/MD prescription?

    As said in the South; "What's up?"

    However; from my experience in government; it appears that there is no credible management plan to remedy COVID-19 or follow ons. Why? It is my opine that there should be a National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P) with COVID-19 as a sub-task. How else can any government cope with human life spans decreasing? For sure; COVID-19 is going to statistically shorten national and global human life spans. If any government doesn't have a  credible over-arching plan against aging and tasks, sub-tasks, and actions, metrics and schedules; how can they budget or assign tasks and judge performance? 

    If COVID-19 is like 1819; there will be waves and cycles for years. Get real. Some news reports this initial 2020  (or 2019) wave lasting until August 2020. Hummm? Is that not near the beginning of the next 2020 flu season? What gives? Not arguing with anyone; just curious.

    Sorry; this picture puzzle looks to be missing parts?

    Logically: one report is 400 mg X 2 /day vs 500 mg/day. That is 800 mg vs 500 mg? Obviously, there is no body weights associated with scrips; but, maybe there should be?

    Anyone with the real talk? The talk to walk?

    Looks to me like this "be ready" effort is very wise.

    Looks like a vaccine is a year away at best. Looks like no one is talking logistics; e.g., should the vaccine be in a sugar cube (like polio) for global distribution vice just a shot or pill? Logically; all humans on Earth may should get it?

    "What's up?"

    Interestingly: if the younger survive better than the older; why not make the older younger? Why is that not in an over-arching plan to remedy COVID-19 and future threats to human life spans?

    Like 1
      • BobM
      • BobM
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Steven Jacobs 

      nicely said 

      Like
  • BobM & others seeking longest lives in good spirit & fun on planet Earth.

    Keep a positive mind set and a hardy laugh. My mindset on this threat is to never let anyone say: "He was unhappy yesterday." If I'm successful in that daily happiness challenge; I will have lived a happy life. Simple goals can take hard

    work; but, at 76; I've done a lot of that before.

    Presently, I'm going to double down on growing younger. I'm also going to assure I've plused up on: Vitamin C; zinc; and quercetin. I'm also looking at herbals. I have Chinese friend that says the Chinese have a (state secret) herbal cure. He says they won't share it because supplies will be rapidly consumed if made known.

    In regard to Vitamin C; there was some very good articles on cure of toxic shock by high dosing in some Life Extension Foundation magazines. Apparently, MD's were not typically doing it. Maybe; take some literature along with us if we have to goto hospital?

    Apparently, this virus is excreted in urine and feces. That makes restrooms red zones and says; "Seriously and protectively use them and clean them well and safely. If true: "Why doesn't our nation's leaders say things like that?" 

    Chinese "medicine (herbal mixes) have been around longer than Western drugs. Can anyone round up a Asian approach? No point limiting our research.

    Asian prevention and cure approaches typically don't have adverse affects and effects.

    Ha! Brain storming is only as good as one uses collective brain power.

    Seeking more conversation and opening up conversation to more approaches to prevention as well as cures.

    It appears we need to continue this quest of prevention and preparedness and also give some thought to getting our government to target anti-aging as part and parcel to remedy and somehow cause our government to serve all ages better. A National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P) is clearly needed. 

    I've discovered that politicians won't read letters that do not have money in them. Only the really fat checks get to the top. No political party has a NA2P. Just observing. 

    Yet, big investors are in the anti-aging emerging market.

    We could target making all organs impacted by COVID-19 well and younger?  Follow the each organ paths of: anti-aging; prevention of disease, initial defense preparations (keyed to temperatures; blood analysis, urine analysis; etc. 

    Hummm? Kinda sorta see a very rough plan of some sorts?

    It appears wise to note that current data is demonstrating a new hump of infections maybe 2+ months after the 1st hump in infections. One sine like curve followed by another?

    I do not observe our leaders addressing that data implication. Observation; we may have to have preparedness for more than one attack? Plus; more attacks just like flu; in the fall. Current data doesn't appear uniform. Why is there apparent statistical variances?

    If the apparent data is saying; we must be prepared for and defend against multiple or even yearly attacks of COVID-19; then, logically prevention without downside impacts is a solid requirement and design goal. Otherwise; our ability to sustain immunity breaks down.

    That is a statistic of import in vaccine development and administration. It sizes challenges in logistics, distribution, and production quantities. If someone creates a cure; it isn't really practically that good if all people don't get it.(Think polio & chicken pox. Think sugar cubes and pills and shots.) That observes that maybe production needs global sizing and many on many production sites. None of that is in any emergency plan. So where is the plan (s)? For credible planning; the COVID-19 plan is just a sub-plan to a National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P), with: metrics, assignees, tasks, subtask, budgets, fiscal control; schedules; progress tracking; etc., as required. Other wise; failure.

    Not seeking politics at all; just observing management status and resourcing. It appears that the President passes everything to the Vice President; then, the Vice President passes it to the President's son-in-law? The son-in-law is a "one stop" (think how the homeless are aided in Alabama) for: Mid East Peace Plans, Saudi oil and political policy on murdered writers; managing the National Stock Pile and setting policy therefor; and COVID-19 issues; etc. The normal way of managing the bureaucracy doesn't apply. I keep looking for a national plan to analyze. It isn't there--- yet. I've never heard anyone at national level say National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P) or refer to a specific detailed COVIS-19 plan; complete with goals, objectives, milestones;,schedules, tasks, subtask, budget, fiscal allowance; phases of research, human resources, training requirements, or plans, logistics, distribution plans, production sites or readiness thereof; etc., all the boiler plate of a well run business or government.  Sorry; I must be becoming blind?  I seriously look; but, cannot see it. War strategies and planning are the highest priority in any nation; but, I don't see a complete picture. By the way, some of the preparedness possibilities could make participants blind and there is no NA2P.

    That is real talk. Not intended in any way as criticism. We individulally and as a nation and global community have serious challenges: anti-aging, COVID-19; surviving global warming and the singularity.

    Funny. Old Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times." So here we are!

    My greatest praise and thanks to you each and all. You are each and all soldiers and warriors the front line against aging and against COVID-19. Thanks greatly. Wars are won by individual soldiers acting individually and/or together on self-initiative. 

    $2+ trillion and no detailed NA2P or COVID-19 plan? Amazing! The Emergency ACT is not a detailed or measurable plan. That is a management; not, politic comment.

    Lots of questions; but, if we find remedy; it will come from many answers to lots of questions. It will come from serious, organized, sustained, and planned action. 

    It is extremely important we continue this preparedness task.

    Never trust government; but, demand it work for all IAW the US Constitution and Amendments; there to.

    Collective & individual thoughts?

    Steven Jacobs

    Like
      • BobM
      • BobM
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Steven Jacobs 

      Good Again!

      Money in envelopes- ha - a good laugh😅

      The national plan will likely come out of the military. It’s how they think. And it’s likely there already- to assure protection of the military and key government officials. Like taking control of N95 mask supplies and respirators...

      But They won’t find the cure. That will come from outside the box of their thinking. And it will be ignored or poo-pood for a long time. 

      Yes, interesting times.

      My son lives in Taipei. Before that in Beijing. Very into what the government’s have done. Not much on the treatment side. But in Taiwan all cell phones are tracked for movement. They have used cell phones to track backwards the movements of covid patients and then scrub things. Taiwan was very early in blocking ALL Incoming Chinese from both Hong Kong and China. They got burnt by the SARS virus and others and where highly prepared to act quickly. They also have very advanced hospital treatment for respiratory viruses.

      cheers

      BobM

      Like
    • BobM 

       

      Bob;

      Perspective is always important. 1st step in any planning. Our elected leaders appear surprised at. COVID-19; but, reading all the news encourages one to recognize that some US Generals closed bases and instituted quarantine in Jan. Generals always brief up the chain of command. Our highest leaders knew.

      Going beyond that; it is reasonably good sense to recognize that this virus is serious, contagious and deadly. Comparing death rates to the flu makes zip sense. They should find more credible vaccine to the flu as well. The left and right politic are just playing at pointing fingers. That is the art of political distraction in cover up of the collective leadership failure to protect the military and civilian populations. The CARES Act is more CYA than a plan. In fact of fact; it has no credible plan unless it has a National Anti-Aging Plan. Just my humble opine. I've seen military plans for bio, viral, chem and nuke attacks.  CARES isn't one.

      Just my opine. No offense to anyone that sees situational awareness differently. More opines than one is always wise.

      This disease won't go poof! Plan on a long journey.

      Salutes to all the champions seeking preparedness and longest lives.

      Go team!

      Ha! Write leaders and demand more than they are doing.

       

      Later,

      Like
  • An interesting article:

    Interaction of Metformin and Hydroxychloroquine

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.31.018556v1

    Like 1
    • Karl equivalent dosage for 60 kg person is 15 gm metformin and 3.6 gms of HCQ

      That would surly kill me!

      Like 1
  • Normal limit on metformin is 2000mg/day; but, some take 2500mg/day. Yeah; 15 gm metformin/day appears as death wish. I'm no MD. I'm taking 2500mg metformin/day @ 160 lbs and 76 years of age. (2-1000mg and one 500mg--breakfast, lunch and dinner timing; but, only eat one meal/day most of the time). Still kicking. Just a witness. Everyone is wise to check with their MD. Good to consult more than one MD. Alabama has no human life extension qualified MD on the list. Tragically; I have too many friends that just want to die and go to heaven. They even refuse to research the literature or join the forum out of curiosity. I've been made fun of and informed that humans are not supposed to live 100's of years by God's will. Obviously; I've not signed up to death. This does; however, address some of why there is no National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P). Too many religious leaders preach that we must die to go to heaven. I've even been told that it is sinful to live "too" long. A sea change in thinking needs to occur. Just witnessing. Any comments?

    Like 1
  • In continued praise and respectful answer:

     

    Dosing and documentation are extremely important. Got to get it right. Great to talk.

    This is a bit outside the specific discussion on human dosing; but, thought it mindful and important to mission success.

     

    BBC network recently reported about a US zoo tiger getting the virus; e.g., possible human to animal transfer. Care to guess a tiger dosing? Odd one has to go to BBC web site to get US news?

     

    Also:

    If this proves true; the virus may persist for years and may mutate to kill other species.

     

    The effort to develop or fully discuss a vaccine hasn't yet matured enough to offer up a polio like approach: e.g., conclusion that every human needs the vaccine. That harkens to the need for serious production and distribution. Worst case; every year everyone needs to take a flu shot. 

     

    The US President and VP and son-in-law go to for everything seem to believe pandemic will be over by May-ish? Zip plans to test or inoculate every human. Not politic here; just trying to understand management and policy direction. WHO and US health officials appear of different opine. Management discussion follows:

     

    There is absolutely no planning or policy for the apparent sort of persistent polio like war that seems to be globally apparent and emerging based on reported data.

     

    The leaders are not even talking or walking that "polio" or "Manhattan Project" like talk. Apparently, not even curious or interested in fail safe planning.

     

    Opine: all in the government & business of vaccine creation should be thinking mass production at many different national and global production facilities and multiple ways to distribute in various vaccine distribution forms: e.g., pills, shot (needle and high pressure injection, and sugar cube and be targeting every human on Earth & in space. Everyone tested multiple times. In this case, tiger & humans treatment needs to be in multiple forms. Possibly even in animal feed. Remember iodized salt?

     

    The longer the delay; the more devastating and long lasting the threat and vulnerability to new threats.

     

    Clue on process to date? Nothing on this subject is in any known daily brief. Not even questions from the news.

     

    Very bad news: human to tiger or another animal to tiger or both? Very scary!!

     

    My Dear Uncle Sam; are you focused? If so; where is the National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P) and it's New Viruses Task's subtask COVID-19??  Yes, all wars must have well thought out plans. Failure to strategically plan = folly and loss. "Dear Uncle Sam; Dear Commander in Chief, "Do you understand?" This war will not; repeat not; be over at the end of April 2020.

     

    No government appears to be taking a "polio" approach toward vaccine distribution for prevention and cure. Our own government leadership isn't recognizing that data shows a severe initial sine like curve followed by a smaller "bump" one in 2+ months.  That would be a June-ish second bump best case. The next cycle in 2020 could potential be the next flu season; e.g., Sept 2020 flu season. 2 cycles/year and a wave every year; e.g., 2021, 2022; etc.? What is the thinking?

     

    If the tiger caught COVID-19 in April; is there now also potential animal back to human as well as human to animal transfers in a different cycle & period?

     

    These questions make it reasonably clear that this preparedness effort is very important to our each and collective survival. OK soldier: "Where is your each and all mess kit?"

     

    From a government management perspective; looks like management planning needs a serious shot in the glutinous maximus; or, whatever. In military terms; planning is Broke and program is Broke. Strategic management planning is apparently void. System Flaming RED. Immediate action required- flash-flash-flash! All quarters on deck!

     

    No one should take this observation as politic; it is what it is; a very scary situation that requires immediate action for crisis avoidance and stopping loss of human lives. 

     

    Logically; if this virus follows a polio persistence path; then, every human needs a mess kit and every zoo potentially needs some too. Worse case price vacine; everyone needs tested prior; during and after virus attack: ---- everyone in worst case. Point being; this is more than a WHO initiative. Leaders must recognize 30 April isn't going to be a forever done deal. How many years has the polio fight been going on?

     

    Tragically; it appears that current government COVID-19 planing is an "accepted attrition plan"; not a credible save all humans plan. This comes at a time when human life spans are decreasing and the threats of global warming and the Singularity are advancing rapidly. This is not fiction. This is real talk. Serious talk!

     

    Opine: It is flawed thinking to have an "accepted attrition" plan in interest of the economy at a time when human life spans are decreasing. "Accepted attrition" is extremely flawed and irresponsible planning. Enforcing and executing an "accepted attrition" plan by Marshal Law is incomparable with the US Constitution and Bill of Rights (the amendments thereto. Not good.Simle observation: I purchased batteries and the merchant took my ID info (terrorism threat). I have a Alabamians have a kerfu. Drivers licenses before the virus war require re-issue with a digital tracking star. The homeless are apparently disappearing? The remedy to COVID-19 is not "attrition" or tracking or disappearing humans. There must be some national debate.

     

    Since COVID-19 is mutating; national health policy needs serious review and change where appropriate. Clearly, nations do not have proper infrastructure or policies to cope with such a horrid attack. Since the virus comes out in urine as well as feces; sewage treatment is another serious issue. Who will go in a manhole to free up a fatberg? Will protective zones be needed around existing sewage infrastructure? How will sewage and drinking water be treated?

     

    Code red! If animals become infected; fleas and ticks may transfer it back to humans. Wake up! Think Black Plague. Think history; think science; think war. Horrid war.

     

    Possibly other animals become infected! Seriously: Ohhh No; Mr. Bill.

     

    Since the virus is detected in urine and feces; hopefully; sewage won't become more toxic waste. Presently; I see no data on sewage treatment policy changes; but, also see no testing. Is that, by magic, in the Emergency Act?

     

    For sure; $2+trillion isn't strategically thought out and isn't based on credible immediate; short, mid or long term planning or transparency.  Ever see a progress report yet? Schedules; task assignees; etc., basic business plan stuff? Status: Haphazard. No real NA2P exist and the Emergency Act is not a credible plan; it is political reflex CYA; not a serious COVID-19 cure all. It does not raise to the level of credible military war or business planning. Period. The Act is void of recognition that human anti-aging is part and parcel to winning the war as well as is void of competent over all planning and execution of the war. Reorganization required. Mission reassignments required. Credible planning mandatory. NA2P mandatory and very wise.

     

    That is business analysis from my Masters in Management Science:--not politic. Just hard talk.

     

    ***Recommendation: President should immediately carve out 6% of total Emergency Act $ and assign it to mission start up to reverse human aging. Congress should write Bill and pass it now. A Manhattan Project approach is wise. Most of the $ should transfer into that mission as soon as NA2P and Anti-aging Manhattan like Project  are established and reorganization is phased in.

     

    It is OK to argue as long as something better is offered. Consensus of Opine is a process and a good thing. No one knows everything.

     

    Denial of need is not solution for need.

     

    Conclusion; the dosing work done herein the Forum is extremely important. It may be the only way to eventually find mass remedy: e.g., individual initiative by each soldier in the fight is what wins wars.

     

    Yes; every Important we vote and write deciders. This nation is: of, by and for the people. That isn't acceptance of marshal Law or a Dictatorship as government rule.  Got to be in the game or loose human lives. Must seriously recognize that anti-aging success is key to COVID-19 and future viral and bacteria threat remedies now and future. Competent strategic plan needed for human anti-aging as over-arching strategic management of all aging threats; inclusive of COVID-19. We cannot let the tail wag the dog. COVID-19 is; but, one tail. Common sense management planning is needed. NA2P  is mandatory and essential to success.

     

    Just saying. But where there is one opine; others can speak up as well. Ever notice how volume goes up when many speak and sing together? Squeaking wheel gets grease. Always!

     

    Your thoughts?

     

    Steven Jacobs

    Like 1
  • Hello Champions in staying alive. Worked on my tractor yesterday.  It was fun.

    Also my MD, a fine man, put me on Amlodipine (10 mg once/day); an ACE2 -stimulating drug. 160 lbs & 76 years of age. Eating one meal/day to get 23 hour fast every day. Also take periodic 3 and 5 day fast. Yes; taking quercetin, bromeliad & Vitamin C. Taking a lot of supplements as well. Taking Temazepam 30 mg/night for sleep. Also Melatonin for sleep. No sleep; no wellness. Also taking NAD and other anti-aging stuff.

    On the nation's strategy to cope with COVID-19; Dr. Anthoni Fauci recently recognized that there may be no new normal. As I've observed; our political leaders appear to accept attrition (collateral kill) in this war, as well as same for front soldiers (MDs, nurses, health care providers). Point being that this no brain virus isn't a warrior; it is a global disease via virus. This isn't a war; it is a global threat to humanity and the free movement and free association we had prior its emergency. Logically; if we want back to normal; then there has to be a "Polio" and or "Chicken Pox" approach that WHO and all nations; etc., administer to every human.  Current approach will not work to get us back to normal. Point being a strategic plan needs developed and worked to completion. Given that human life spans are getting shorter; it appears wise to develop a credible National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P) with "COVID-19" as a subtask under a "New Virus" task. Simply put; our nation has no real manageable plan to increase human life spans. The ultimate measure of back to normal is the average life span. Even if we ever get back to normal in longest average life spans of the past; we should have NA2P plan goals and milestones and specific task, subtask, etc.,--all the boiler plate of competent strategic planning to be able to achieve and measure progress in mission success. Speaking of milestones: how about average high quality life spans of 100 years, 200 years; etc? How about setting a serious goal of defeating aging? Better yet; reversing aging. 

    Point I'm trying to make is that neither theft or right politic has or proposes a NA2P; it doesn't exist. Politics: Broke. Obviously, no NA2P; no funding; no action.

    It should be compelling that our nation establish an NA2P and structure the government to achieve measured increases in quality and length of human life spans. As the Singularity arrives; you can bet that super intelligent machines will get repairs, have maintenance; get upgrades, and last longer than humans. As it is, those machine cost are currently tax write offs as part and parcel to production. However; the current great debate on health care; fails to recognize that humans and human life span lengths in high quality life are more important than machines' use life. Got an 1700's buggy that you bought when you were 19 years of age? Why not? Ha! Where is my penny per penny tax write off? There is incredibly weird talk that the economy is more important than old folks lives? I do not buy that con job of a side step to avoid national health system management and organization failures or failure to property assign an anti-aging mission or for that matter cover up that timely decisions were not made and are still not being made to defeat COVID-19. Our nation's too many dying on the front lines; even one is too many.

    Just recognizing that the goal of back to normal should actually be "Forward to a better normal and longer high quality human life". I have zero desire to short the great planet Earth adventure by death and suffering. There is nothing natural about human death. Death is the result of the rapid in-end toll of diseases of aging or accident or murder. That needs to be bedrock national health policy. A NA2P must be put in place. A Manhatten like Project leading to a NA2P and Anti-aging mission and Cabinet position. Credible strategic planning. reporting, and transparency--the whole 10 plus yards; yard by yard to goal(s) attainment. 

    Then, and only, then can our nation lead as we should. 3/4 of Earth is covered with water. The global garbage patches could be turned into human floating land masses. Point being; it's junk populism to believe that humans have to accept death; because,  there isn't enough space or food. 

    If we really (everyone should)  want to live longest ever done by anyone past; there must be a funded and well managed competent plan to achieve that mission.

    The blunt truth is that there will be no back to pre-COVID normal or path to better than normal without mission assignment and appropriate action to rid the human race of COVID-19 as well as the other existing as well as emerging diseases--unless there is national and global mission. We must start with national mission assignment., Think eradication of diseases; including COVID-19. Think anti-aging. Think longer human life spans. Then act.

    COVID-19 isn't a thinking virus.  This isn't a real war; it is a failure to manage. There is no NA2P. Worse; there is no anti-aging mission assigned or funded or budgeted. System: Broke.

    Obviously; our collective sharing of COVID-19 approaches to survive is witness that no rational national management plan to get back to normal exist. The acceptance of perpetual constant human attrition (by death and compromised health) is a plan of decreased length life spans; not, getting back to normal.  "Acceptance of "maybe some testing; maybe some get vaccinated; maybe live, maybe die, watch the curve, mass deaths; mass compromised health" is failed national policy from the get go. It is only the best we can do; because, goals are accepted too low for increasing human life span. Obviously, in the USA, human life spans are shortening. This has been happening over decades. Observation: System Broke.

    Our individual and collective efforts to live longest is absolutely necessary. Obviously. at present the COVID-19 remedy plan is in acceptance of no return to normal. Obviously, normal wasn't good enough anyway. COVID-9 must be globally eliminated.

    Other diseases must be globally eliminated and research and public and private investments must laid and focused by a NA2P in the USA and in other countries as well.

    There must be a "polio"- 'chicken pox' like champaign to globally eliminate COVID-19. Otherwise, back to normal ain't going to happen. That is the real talk.

    At this time; we have to push ahead with our own approaches.

    Credibly; I'm not buying into a new lower normal that necessitates living in a police state under Marshal Law. That is the obvious future if, this and follow on viruses, are not managed to complete elimination. So far; leaders are pitching the illusion that the threat is over 30 April 2020--maybe-ish. Sorry; that ain't going to happen. "We'll see" is just a con line for continued failure to ignore that USA human life spans are decreasing in length and that there is no NA2P and no mission assigned to rid Earth of COVID-19. The observation that human to tiger transmission may exist; should send shock waves.

    So far; it hasn't.

    The only way to face reality is to be really truthful and act in a credible manner to achieve remedy and threat elimination. I cannot and will not accept that indiscriminate or discriminate deaths by COVID-19 is to be the new normal. The current approach is to accept human life attrition in cycles and waves is tragically flawed. That is the real talk. In my view; that policy is not tolerable.

    As such; we must achieve preparation status in order to speak up with unquenched voices and get COVID-19 remedy and also get a NA2P for the USA.

    Sharing preparations is a really good thing.

    Any comment?

    Thanks for the counsel; et. al.

    Like
  • A lot of interesting discussion.  Unfortunately its like talking with anti-vaxxers.  People have made up their minds and not changing.

    My only purpose in posting here was to warn people that they may be taking a drug with potentially dangerous side effects, that has no proven benefit.

    I have tried to stay as informed as possible about Covid as I see patients everyday with it.  Listening to experts in multiple fields of medicine.  Almost all agree that there is NO conclusive evidence that Hydroxychloroquine does anything for Covid.  I'm not saying proof won't come out, just that there is no proof yet.

    Like
      • Florin
      • Florin
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Karl 

      Dr. Anthony Cardillo claims that:

      Hydroxychloroquine + zinc = all of his severely-ill COVID-19 patients became symptom-free in 8 to 12 hours

      Hydroxychloroquine + nothing = nothing

      Are you or any of the other docs that you know thinking of prescribing this stuff to severely-ill COVID-19 patients?

      https://abc7.com/coronavirus-drug-covid-19-malaria-hydroxychloroquine/6079864/

      Like
      • Dan Nave
      • Dan_Nave
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Florin Along these lines, it is being bandied about that Quercetin is also an iontophor like Hydroxychloroquine and might be able to be used in its place.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25050823

      Like
      • Karl
      • Karl.1
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Florin don’t really care to argue with you if your source of medical information is local abc new.  I would ask you to look at that story to see if it really passes any scientific review.

      Like
      • Florin
      • Florin
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Karl 

      Of course, I realize that it has a ton of problems (and even in the best of times, most medical research is supposedly junk anyway), but if we're really at war here, we don't have the luxury of waiting for the outcome clinical trials; we just gotta try MacGyvering this thing.

      Like 1
      • Florin
      • Florin
      • 1 yr ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Dan Nave 

      An IC doc in the Netherlands claims that quercetin + zinc is giving good results with his CODIV-19 patients.

      https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/108038-protecting-from-coronavirus-supplements-therapies/page-31#entry889761

      Like 2
    • Florin 

       

      The challenge is to live longest ever. Research China's longest living human. Beat his record. Set a positive example. That said; don't take poison to get on the tail of a comet. Serious leaps in life span length will come most quickly from a seriously funded National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P). Credible plans allow for immediate term as well as long term and everything in between tasks. Trump could direct some % of CARES funds go to a NA2P. Hummmm??? Even 3% of $2+ trillion is a serious start up. 

      Like
      • Florin
      • Florin
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Steven Jacobs 

      What anti-aging plan would the NA2P use? Why isn't that anti-aging plan being already used by the NIH or NIA? What's going to prevent the NA2P from turning into just another version of the NIH or NIA? How will politicians even hear about the NA2P proposal and why would they take it seriously?

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    • Florin 

       

      Thanks greatly for asking.

      One must keep a sense of humor and hope for a favorable lottery win. I do write elected leaders. None appear to be able to read unless serious money is attached.

      One would think that a measure of government success would be how long their citizens live? If isn't necessarily how long. Note: Some were encouraging the old to die of COVID-19 as a duty to the nation. How bloody stupid?

      Changing focus and redirecting any government to increase human life spans is apparently complex. Organized religions have posed death as a ticket to heaven. Living in Alabama offers observation that many want to die as part and parcel to ritual. Looks like a Earth life ender to me. 

      Logically; an NA2P has to be created and be knowledge based.

      The Department of Defense gets all phases of research $ (e.g., known-known; known unknown; unknown known; and unknown-unknown); but, for some lack of left or right politic reason; human life span increases are not that important of a research area. Smallpox is pretty much eliminated; polio is reappearing. One would think that if the global objective was to eradicate COVID-19 was on the table; WHO would be assigned the job where other nations are inadequate. Fix any mis-management issues and inoculate our own IAW our. own plans. Our commerce is international (global); so, logically; a global initiative makes sense. Being an economic isolationist appear to not meet the challenge of increasing human life spans; or eradication of human diseases; including COVID-19.

      Why doesn't human life span increases qualify for all phases of government research in a credible plan? Good question. Maybe political leaders are more interested in collecting money that visionary leadership. Sorry; no one can blame any political party--they make off with the $ all the time and still haven't figured out this: "Serve the people thing." 

      To achieve anti-aging; we must demand it.

      Ha! What happens? The politics of distraction: WHO gets fiscally cut; no pressure on a global COVID-19 eradication. Not playing politics; talking management science and mission success and assignments and funding--all the serious things that credibly solve serious problems.

      We are  victims of political science and the art of distraction and have been for decades. Solution?: "Wise up; demand more." No NA2P; no vote or champaign $. Fire em all. Start over.

      Funny. At 76; it appears that politicians simply want $ and to stay elected until death. We need to pick better and insist on more. Politicians will flip on a penny for a vote. Best we pick them better and hold them to full account. Obviously; increasing human life span isn't a mission assigned or funded; or whoever is assigned is hiding. Everything starts with mission assignment & $. Then; plans and accountability follow.

      Never trust government is how to keep any plan on track. The NA2P has to be transparent and accountable to really smart and wise and very capable leaders who are held to account to the people; vice political yes people. It has to have metrics and measurable goals and milestones and tasks and subtasks and schedules that are strategic planned (active & updated with feedback loops). It must be funded. It ain't.

      The US Department of Defense (DoD) sets up Program Executive Officers (PEOs) and over arching plans and organizations to manage complex military systems. Integrated Product Teams (IPTs); when well managed; help integrate and increase do-ability with bottom ups and top down data. I'm not advocating military; but, recognizing the Manhattan Project worked (in this case; it could end up with some, yet undefined, overarching organization with mission $, and plan and resources).  Yes, with human life spans decreasing and global warming a serious threat; it appears wise to assign a mission to seriously increase human life spans. A NA2P would follow IAW mission assignment.

      Interestingly; COVID-19 is just a subtask. Hummm??? $2+ trillion in an unplanned subtask? Forget the politics; is that credible management?  What about all the other diseases in the human aging bundle?

      Hard truth is that super intelligent machines will out live us and be more capable. Research existing war and future war machines for your own awareness-scary. Research the predicted time of the Singularity. Guess what; it is already emerging in bits and pieces; including IAW supporting policy.

      So here we are; no NA2P at all to reverse human aging; or even for that matter stabilize it at its increasingly low life span level. Go figure?

      Looks like to me that a bucket (COVID-19) isn't planned and loosely in a trailer in front of a truck and neither the truck or the trailer are funded. credibly and there is no clear driver or destination of driver or human life span increase mission assigned. In military terms: "The human life span is broke; it ain't getting better. Management is confused, disoriented, disconnected and lacks focus.

      Solution:

      Assign mission and make someone accountable and provide resources."

      Take a $% of COVID-19 funding allocation and set up Manhattan like Project. Later pull more COVID-19 $ into NA2P mission where appropriate.

      OK? Propose something more doable or work making this better. We have to start somewhere. That simple. 

      Again; think Anti-aging and human life span increases management and mission assignment and credible planning and funding; etc. Not politics.

      Leave politics out to do your own each and collective analyses. Mission attainment of longer human life spans is essential to sustained human existence on planet Earth and elsewhere.

      Sure that is complex; but, so what? No NA2P? No good reason to not have mission assigned or planned and not credibly budgeted, resourced or funded. 

      Situation critical! Broke.

      Is something seriously messed up or what?

      Other opines (pro or con) welcome.

      Thanks for your response.

      Steven Jacobs

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      • Florin
      • Florin
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Steven Jacobs 

      How about this for a NA2P mission statement: the NA2P's mission is to enhance health, lengthen life, and reduce illness and disability.

      Like
    • Florin 

       

      Posted some more thoughts on NA2P. Now encouraging more discussion on "adaptation" where adaptation includes handicapped as well as higher performance mission(s). Point is that the military is already invested in adaptations in pursuit of an advanced soldier as well as aiding the injured. As such; human life span increase mission needs to include adaptations.

      Adaptations in that case deserves an NA2P section of it's own with cross links to specific diseases; e.g., mechanical legs, hearts, etc. Bio brain to electronic circuit and vice versa. Logically, that mission will see growth; especially, as the Singularity matures and humans compete with super intelligent machines.

      Some would dismiss this AI type reality; but, a small amount of research may change minds to include this science and technology as part and parcel to increasing quality as well as length of human life spans.

      Suggest taking a look at predicted time emergence of the Singularity and when global warming becomes human habitat destabilizing.

      That type of timeline research brings reality to the need for a NA2P: now. Average human life span lengths are still decreasing. Not only are humans dying too soon; they are also becoming less fertile. Point is that an NA2P is urgent. It isn't just about COVID-19.

      Much more to consider in pursuit of NA2P mission statement clarity.

      Encourage more dialogue and voices.

      Thanks for your comments.

      Like
    • Florin 

       

      Given national all political party failure to pursue anti-aging or recognize that COVID-19 would be subtask therein; situation presently broke. A NA2P; logically, anti-aging awareness needs brought forth to top decision-makers. Given existing lack of existence of mission or NA2P; mission is conceptualized herein as Manhattan like Project leading to formal organization and/or reorganization. Starting out as an Over-Arching Directive and Anti-aging mission assignment that allows pulling resources from NIH, NIA, FDA; many others and aligning as necessary to put together a NA2P to manage mission assigned. Point is; got to start somewhere. Presently USA Anti-aging mission is profoundly zip. Broke.

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    • Florin 

       

      Maybe add the word: "progressively" before "enhance"? Got to somehow emphasize serious schedule and overarching mission.. Just about every health organization can say they seek to enhance health, lengthen life, and reduce illness.   As such; mission has to be dedicated and overarching. There is presently no NA2P.  The effort has to very straightforward and clear in a way to make the need direct and meaningful. I have some very religious friends that tell me I don't understand the teachings of the Bible or any religious order; e.g., humans are supposed to suffer on Earth and then die. Accordingly; there is much selling required. Health organizations are like all bureaucracies; mission protective. If the mission isn't clear in a way that makes it unique; they will all say they already do it. Fact is that there is no Federal, State, or local NA2P. Alabama political leadership appears to not only want to control all women's bodies; but, also for its citizens to die IAW their Governor's and Legistature's and preachers; etc., beliefs. Many other states fall in the same view of situational awareness; e,g., accept death.

      I'm opposed to death and prefer a longest tour on planet earth as possible. Why end the adventure early?

      Not seeking to be critical; just observing that selling life everlasting on Earth is counter; to the brain washed logic of the millennia.

      It is an interesting thing to try to understand why people are so willing to accept short life spans as justified by an act of god; faith. For sure we presently die and for sure human life spans are decreasing in length; so one would think that would be very alarming to everyone? Not so.

      As such; a mission to increase human life spans is interestingly a hard sell.

      Facilitation is another area that needs mission clarification. That is testing labs, computerized human simulations, hyperbolic chambers, real estate; etc. University courses need established. 

      Pseudo testing isn't done with expensive military systems. They cost to much to develop. The FDA instance on pseudo testing is immoral and unethical. Humans have unmeasurable worth. One can be sure that creatures of the Singularity won't be use salvaged via testing. The FDA allows humans to die as quality test control of drugs. No developer of military systems destruct test as a required condition of trials. true their are drop test for crash worthiness; but, that is a minimum and highly controlled situation. Obviously, that points need of clinical trial policy changes. There is a lot. of. work presently on quantum computing; however, that is mostly associated with energy (nuclear energy and bombs). Go figure? Logically, there is critical need to increase human life spans via modeling human conditions. When "Overarching" is fully understood: it clearly must direct some of those resources toward human modeling for express purpose of disease prevention and cure and eradication as well as facilitation and adaptations necessary to execute the human life span increasing challenges.

      The proposed NA2P is complex. It must be executed with mission teeth. policies and laws must be created.

      Having an over-arching mission to credibly extend human life spans is a complex mission. It; however, is a must do if humans continue to exist. A credible NA2P is mandatory for success.

      The NA2P is a Human Life Span Extension mission management tool that must be strategic in nature (constantly updated & with feedback loops) and must be under clear charter and mission to over-arch existing health efforts. 

      Logically, insurance markets will emerge.

      The human life span increase mission is very complex. Very urgent.

      20% of the Grey Beard (military term for old knowledge base really gifted smart people) that get COVID-19 die. That is a huge loss of Human Resources. It cannot be tolerated. It is a huge lost to families and family structure. It cannot be tolerated. Period. Eradicate COVID-19; period. Be prepared and eradicate all diseases of aging. Plan for adaptations. Execute human life span increases missions.

      Situation: broke. Both the right and left politic clueless.

      Queueing theory would predict that their will be times of mass leadership cluelessness. Time to speak up. The fact and the fake press are both quiet and so too are too many leaders should be alarming.

      Anti-aging is not fringe; it is urgent and forward good sense thinking. 

      Yet; the mission to increase human life spans is a credibly a "do it or die sooner" situation. That is all human situation. 

      Note: True preparedness requires planning and funding and a state of readiness. COVID-19 demonstrates those basics were not and are not now in place. Serious look at the CARES Act demonstrates that such mission of increasing human life spans or eradication of COVID-19 are not included. It is reasonable to observe that global warming and environmental pollution for profits will increase the emergence of new virus; bio, pollutants, toxins, etc. Situational awareness and readiness are broke. ZIP planning. Not good.

      As Pogo once said: "We have met the enemy and he are us."

      Yes; more mission clarity is necessary. The masses (that includes us) cannot be prepared unless there exist credible: mission, planning, function, funding, budget, resources, etc. Since preparedness for COVID-19 (it will be back) still isn't in place and their are no plans to eradicate it; an NA2P is still needed (COVID-19 is sub-task). Think military sets, kits and outfits (SKOs). Not saying everyone needs a full bio or chem suit (MOP thing). Ha! Maybe a sugar cube of vaccine will do? Point being: a NA2P could make human life span increases actually happen with goals like 100 years, 200 years; etc. Deliver by an assigned and accountable mission higher quality and longer human lives; and, cause it to happen via known schedule vice hollow politics.

      Your thoughts?

      Steven Jacobs

      P.S.: Sorry for so much verbiage; trying to be clear. There is a lot to the sought after NA2P and its directive, and empowered mission.

      Like
  • One more public service announcement. If you decide to get these medicines to take or have around in case, be aware that chloroquine falls in the category that toxicologists refer to as “one pill can kill”, so please keep your meds away from children or grandchildren.

    Like
  • Maybe?

    Progressive prevention and cure the all the disease(s) of aging?   Something straight forward. Where aging is all diseases current and/or future that threaten life expectancy.

    If the NA2P can do that mission; humans should be able to live longer. Simple statement; complex over arching mission. The word progressive emphasizes goals schedule, milestones; etc.

    Not sure where remobilization (as in disabilities) fits in. More work needed. 

    Thanks for comment.

    Like
      • Florin
      • Florin
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Steven Jacobs 

      How about this: the NA2P's mission is to cure, prevent, or manage all diseases.

      This discussion needs its own separate thread.

      Like
    • Florin 

       

      It likely needs two or more.  Preparedness comes from planning.

       

      Mission  for NA2P is another.

       

      Organization; functions; etc., could also be added as threads.

       

      I agree with your comment. Part is here; more is elsewhere. 

      Like
  • 3 studies this week in France, China, and Brazil show no benefit from Hydroxychloroquine in treating Covid. Hopefully more studies to come.

    Like 1
      • Florin
      • Florin
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Karl 

      No zinc, no effect.

      Like
    • Florin 

       

      Yes; that is good. 

      Wonder when and if some of the approaches to anti-aging will be investigated as preventive measures.  Logically, this virus isn't targeted for eradication and no clear leader is assigned with responsibility; e.g., it will likely be a sustained threat to human life. That observed; successful anti-aging is a key to survival from all diseases.

      The proposed NA2P would hasten remedy. COVID-19 isn't going to go poof. COVID-19  is with us until globally eradicated and there is no plan or apparent intent to globally eradicate it.

      The studies & clinical trials are good; but, I haven't seen the details to make a guess on how good. Some clinical trials are not worth the investment of time or money from the get go. Some are done with the intent of selling drugs vs wise use of zinc; etc.,; e.g., some trials may be being done with intent to disqualify use of zinc. Interestingly, many clinical trials were done to disqualify fish oil in order to sell drugs.

      Like
  • In regard to zinc being needed:

    My research also indicates that the worst hit with the disease are low in zinc.

    It would aid individual researchers if there was a open public data file of COVID-19 case studies. Logically; such a file would be created and maintained as a task in the proposed National Anti-aging Plan (NA2P).

    The low zinc levels begs the questions: (1) should there be different levels of zinc by age group?"; (2) "Is the current minimum level too low?"; (3) "What is the proper amount to aid prevention of COVID-19?"; (4) "What is the proper amount when symptoms appear?"; (5) "What is the proper amount when COVID-19 fully infects and chest pain occurs?"

    Again: a NA2P case studies task could be created and would surely be of great use to all researchers seeking prepardations, prevention and cure of all diseases; not, just COVID-19.

    It would have to be a secure file and updated factually. That is policy, procedures and laws; etc. However; elimination of human diseases is mandatory to achieve the human life span goals of average and quality life spans of 100, 200, 300; etc., years.

    One of the biggest problems in achieving anti-aging is the lack of public access to a credible and easily searchable data base. Status of most of the data needed to really advance human life span increasing science is demonstrated by the lack of public assessable and organized data for independent analysis and science use. This situation can be remedied via a NA2P and a Manhattan like Project that can over arch and focus existing health improvement agencies toward making data available. There is a lot of case studies and data available; but, it is not accessible or well organized. As such, application and analysis programs are often useless.

    Funny. As US citizens, the law is that only a "drug" can cure disease. OK? Why? It makes no common sense to limit the extension of human life span to a "drug" approach. Other cultures use herbs as well as many other techniques; including yoga, Hanna Somatics, acupuncture, chiropreactic; etc. Prevention includes keeping organs healthy. As such; a serious data base of USA, all country, clinical trials and "other culture" demonstrations should be available for public use. 

    COVID-19 shuts down organs. Why is there no organ health and immunity counsel? $2+ trillion? Really? And no specific organ counsel?

    It takes a credible organization to verify, validate data and authenticate as well as to organize a data. This is no simple effort.  However; achieving a goal of doubling average life spans in 5 years requires its establishment. Oddly, countries spend more on fighting and how to kill and dominate; than, on how to achieve human anti-aging.

    Wow! The Singularity and global warming are progressing faster than planning and actions toward increasing human life spans. Have we collectively lost our good senses distracted by weak political theater and digital games? Shakespeare would write a whole series of plays. Got to laugh or cry. Whacko appears in vogue.

    Not fund WHO? Why? Who replaces WHO? WHO has the infrastructure. Eradication of COVID-19 is a huge task. Eradication is better: than, centuries of attrition. Should WHO recommend increasing zinc?  Who also should recommend increasing zinc?

    Say what? Are we collectively loco? This COVID-19 event brings to question if countries really value the aged or even the young more than the economy. No leader has yet to say: "Global "eradication" of COVID-19 is imperative." All leaders appear to have accepted remedy by attrition. In military terms; that policy includes acceptance of collateral kill of innocents as well as: soldiers (care givers, doctors, grand parents; children: etc.) in all fields and endeavors.

    Acceptance of a policy of attrition appears counter to quality of life and pro police state. Why agree with that restriction on freedom? Object must be "eradication" and true return to freedom. Sure; distancing is wise. COVID-19 plans are well thought out; but, true freedom from COVID-19 requires more strategy. It requires both prevention and eradication as well as some attrition in the initial phase we are in this day.

    Prevention and cure of diseases must be strategically planned. Obviously, in that sense; COVID-19 is a subtask in a NA2P.

    In more regard to zinc; what do other cultures eat and how they get it is of interest. Specifically; what should a person eat to prevent the disease and/or aid cure the disease? No one appears to be talking diet.

    Of course: that too could be in a data base searchable by disease.

    The military uses fault diagnosis trees to test and diagnose failures as well as low performance. Why isn't there a public fault tree available for COVID-19? $2+ trillion and no fault diagnosis tree? Outragious! No NA2P? Outragious! No organized public fault trees for other diseases? Outragious! No public available set, kit or outfit (SKO) or use instructions? Do we care more about machines than ourselves?

    Maybe I'm stupid and cannot smell; but, something stinks.

    Logically; a comprehensive data base task would be a required task in the the NA2P. The most current data for COVID-19 would be under the search for COVID-19 in a subtask therein.

    Maybe there needs to also be a General Services Administration (GSA) for ordering and issuing COVID-19 SKOs (zinc; etc., and instructions therein)?

    $2+ trillion and no answers to the above to the people and no NA2P? This is a management observation and question. Forget the politics.

    No one knows everything.

    If anyone knows the answers; please communicate and add to the conversation.

    Thanks

    Steven Jacobs

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