Treatment for Reducing Arterial Plaque and Imflammatory Cells:

I would like to start this as a focused topic.

Background: I’m 69, have followed Bill Faloon / Life extension protocols for about 10 years. Doing the Dasatinib / Quercetin and Rapamycin treatments since mid last year. I have very low body fat, eat very healthy and have outstanding blood work. Model ldl/GSK triglycerides. Very low inflammatory markers. 

Now I have 2 stints. Fixed 95 and 90% blockages in two main arteries.  I was fortunate to go in to ER before some serious heart damage happened.

So digging into why:  Plaque accumulation on the inner area of the artery wall. 

So for me, figuring out how to REDUCE plaque seems like the biggest life extension action I can take. And I am sure this is true for many others. 
 

Consulting with my heart doctor was not fruitful. He prescribed the cookbook set of meds: 10 mg of Lipitor, 40mg of Avorstatin, 61 mg aspirin, 75 mg Plavix (clopidogrel).

I got  some good advise from folks on another forum herein. Found Avorstatin helps LDL/HDL but does nothing for plaque or inflammation. I’m now taking 40mg of Crestor, in place of the Avorstatin.

See Birmingham Medical News, New Plaque Study highlights Power of Crestor.

Very good!

Other: I’m looking to change Lipitor blood pressure med to Ramipril. This product seems to lower inflammation levels in the blood, whereas Lipitor does not.

Questions for discussion:

What else can we do to reduce plaque?

Is there something we are doing in our healthy protocols which causes more plaque buildup?

Cellular Inflammation in the Blood: how is this really measured? How do we reduce naturally? Do any of our senolytic treatments knock this down?

All: please pass along any good research things you have seen.

This is a great group!

Thank you!

BobM
 


 

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        • Paul Beauchemin
        • Paul_Beauchemin
        • 4 yrs agoMon. June 22, 2020 - 5:25 pm
        • Reported - view

        I've read quite a number of studies now and I don't see any relationship between LDL-c and survival. I fact higher LDL and Tot Cholesterol is better for survival when you are over 65.

        Ratio of Tot C to HDL and Trig to HDL are better preditors.

        And if you think your statin is doing you good, why not get CAC and CIMT to confirm improvements?

        Like 1
          • Randy B
          • Randall_Bagrowski
          • 4 yrs agoThu. June 25, 2020 - 6:15 pm
          • Reported - view

          Peter H. Howe  Peter, You just do not understand basic science. It doesn't matter that YOU feel that tracking LDL-C is beneficial. SCIENCE says it is not. It does not matter what your LDL-C level is. If you have high LDL-P, you are a walking heart attacks. BTW, What was your LDL-P when you last checked it?

          Like 1
          • Peter H. Howe
          • Peter_H_Howe
          • 4 yrs agoThu. June 25, 2020 - 6:18 pm
          • Reported - view

          Fred Cloud .Checked quickly on google. There is a genetic component to anemia and transcription factor protein was identified.

          I have never had an ulcer or blood in my stool. Had several colonoscopies over  the  years--not since I turned 75--too dangerous. Just stopped daily LD aspirin. The anemia was always with me before my bypass and aspirin.

          LEF's book has several references to testosterone treatment resolving anemia issues.  Also  higher levels of testosterone decrease chance of heart attack and increases life expectancy in men.

          https://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1677-55382012000400011

          Above article documents treatment with chlomiphene increases testosterone and lowers cholesterol in hypogonadal men. This is a fertility drug used to stimulate  pituitary to produce FSH to stimulate ovulation in females. It is just beginning to gain  acceptance as means of increasing  testosterone in males  

          Like
          • Peter H. Howe
          • Peter_H_Howe
          • 4 yrs agoThu. June 25, 2020 - 6:35 pm
          • Reported - view

          Randy B Sorry, Randy,Ii have not checked in 20+ years. Do not need to. I have full grasp of basic science:  Fish oil and statin with lipid monitoring every 6 months. It has worked for 20 plus years and Insilco's models suggests I may have another 20.

          I do not have to repeat VAP and LDL-P  unless a serious problem erupts.

          Like
          • Peter H. Howe
          • Peter_H_Howe
          • 4 yrs agoSat. June 27, 2020 - 9:22 pm
          • Reported - view

          Randy B + Randy (and Paul B as well ),  we have been through this before. For the last time, please follow my logic. I had an emergency bypass 26 years ago. This was based on an angiogram the previous day. I have not had another, and I am still here as you give me a hard time. Something is working. The probability of me going longer than 26 years after a bypass without another surgery or just being alive is less than 5 % . 

          I explained before that a Dr Davis over 20 years ago sat down with me and integrated a statin and fish oil to prevent future problems. This was based in part on LDL-P tests and how it was affected by fish oil.  I agree that  that if you are starting from scratch , an LDL-P test is better than just LDL-C. I suggested a VAP test (Includes LDL-P) to BobM as one of the first steps he should undertake to evaluate his progress.

          I currently include the Triglycerides/HDL ratio as one of the best indicators of how I am doing. A value of one says that that is where I need to be. If you have  long term trend of ~1 the possibility of an  ischemic cardiaic event is zero.  The Total C/HDL ratio also has value. I am not going to take a chance and I get both from a simple lipid profile.The LDL-C plays a role in how I proceed along with the ratios.

          Finally, I use the ratios and lipid panel with some emphasis on LDL-C to evaluate experimental conditions that I am pursuing. If the ratio is much higher than 1 and LDL-C is high,  for one or two consecutive times-- the experiment stops. An example follows.

          Attached you will find a summary of my blood work since April, 2016 which I will use to illustrate my approach.  I became a vegetarian in mid 2015, and wanted to evaluate whether or not I needed my statin as my Total C was somewhat low ( ~140) for a number of years.  I stopped my lipitor in early 2016 and there was almost an immediate unacceptable increase in all elements of the lipid panel ( especially LDL-C)  and my ratios. Needless to say I resumed my lipitor and everything returned to normal. Conclusion: I need my lipitor even under the best of diets. I do not need the LDL-P to make this decision. 

          It is not simply a cost considertion. This plays a role, but I spend ~$700 for lab work per year with LEF - maybe more. I get everything I need--for now--  with this effort.

          A second example is for my intermittent fasting  results that stared in 2019.  I will leave my comments on this for Fred Cloud as it has bearing on previous comments on testosterone, cholesterol and anemia we have had. 

          Peace-- hope this helps.

          • BobM
          • BobM
          • 4 yrs agoSun. June 28, 2020 - 3:56 pm
          • Reported - view

          Peter H. Howe 

          Thanks for sharing these details.

          I think this discussion is very beneficial to all of us. Disagreement is a core of learning!

          Like
          • Paul Beauchemin
          • Paul_Beauchemin
          • 4 yrs agoThu. July 9, 2020 - 12:45 pm
          • Reported - view
          • Peter H. Howe
          • Peter_H_Howe
          • 4 yrs agoThu. July 9, 2020 - 2:20 pm
          • Reported - view

          Paul Beauchemin Thanks Paul. I am aware of the studies referenced in the review article.  I do not agree with the conclusions in my case and the conclusions are dangerous to many like me that are genetically prone to heart disease.  I have been on a statin plus fish oil for almost 25 years after a emergency bypass over 26 years ago.  As I have indicated to BobM, it is the interaction of both taken together that prevents heart attacks in those of us who are genetically  prone to heart attacks-- the number one cause of mortality in U.S, at about 600,000/year. Without the statin plus fish oil, I would have been having this discussion with multiple relatives who passed in 40' 50'sand 60s due to cardiac arrest and who who did not have a statin.  

          I went on a vegetarian diet and fish oil without a statin for two years  and my cholesterol went into the danger range. This effort on my part was due to studies that indicate if you drop below 160 Total C, mortality rates increase due to factors other than the cardiac issue.

          We previously had the discussion on the relevance of Triglyceride/HDL ratio to predicting a heart attack. Mine is one due to the statin plus fish oil which indicates that my chance of a cardiac event is non existent. We can go one step further and conclude that the fish oil changed my LDL to the fluffy type based on LDL-P test. I provided BobM references to both of these. 

          In terms of genetics, one predictor of cardiac events is your IGF-1. Below 80 ng/ml cardiac events increase. Above 150 ng/ml  cancer rates increase.  Mine is typically about 70. This can be a topic for another day.

          For any of us to make it o a healthy 100, there are multiple factors for each of us to overcome, and they will not be the same for all of us. The exception may be the multiple benefits of fish oil. In this regard, I see that LEF has a fish oil article in the August , 2020 magazine.

          Like 1
        • Andrew P K Yap
        • Andrew_P_K_Yap
        • 4 yrs agoTue. June 23, 2020 - 12:20 am
        • Reported - view

        How I Reversed 20 Years of Arterial Plaque

        https://youtu.be/QOWF0KTNu2g

        Like 1
          • BobM
          • BobM
          • 4 yrs agoTue. June 23, 2020 - 12:37 am
          • Reported - view

          Andrew P K Yap 

          Hi Andrew,

          thanks for the really excellent link!

          Like
          • BobM
          • BobM
          • 4 yrs agoTue. June 23, 2020 - 12:52 am
          • Reported - view

          Andrew P K Yap 

          Hi Again- the main conclusion from his video, was the change to Crestor (Rosuvastatin). He used 5mg low dose. Higher doses can raise blood sugar levels. 
          I am now taking it — 40mg, which was the clinical dose for plaque reduction. 
          I am going to get the CIMT test To get a baseline, then again 2x / year to see where I am at. After things look good I am going to the lower dose. 
          Now I just have to find a convenient place to do regular CIMT testing... 

          Like 1
        • Paul Beauchemin
        • Paul_Beauchemin
        • 4 yrs agoTue. June 23, 2020 - 3:46 pm
        • Reported - view

        All these drugs are side shows to the root cause of CVD and hypertension- insulin resistance.

         

        get your HOMA-IR score under 1.2 and you won’t need to treat symptoms 

        Like 1
          • BobM
          • BobM
          • 4 yrs agoWed. June 24, 2020 - 2:08 am
          • Reported - view

          Paul Beauchemin 

          Hi Paul,

          Homa-Ir score— 

          can you please explain further?

          sorry for needing more explanation 😎

          Like 1
          • Paul Beauchemin
          • Paul_Beauchemin
          • 4 yrs agoWed. June 24, 2020 - 1:45 pm
          • Reported - view
        • Randy B
        • Randall_Bagrowski
        • 4 yrs agoTue. June 23, 2020 - 4:19 pm
        • Reported - view

        So, you have an MD that says he added Niacin and a Statin and went on low carb and what do you know? He attributes his decrease in plaque to the prescription medicine. This is typical and why people's health are so bad. Doctor's are, for the most part.. bafoons. All he can really say is that taking that combo is what lowered his plaque... nothing else.

        From a fact stand point... there has never been a study showing cholesterol levels are related to plaque levels. So that right there probably rules out the contribution of the Statin. There are plenty of peer reviewed studies that show Niacin lowers LDL-Particle Number which is the best predictor of plaque/heart disease. There is also plenty of data showing high insulin promotes plaque.

        The real take home message is that the Niacin and low carb diet is what reversed his plaque.

        Like 1
          • BobM
          • BobM
          • 4 yrs agoWed. June 24, 2020 - 2:03 am
          • Reported - view

          Randy B 

          Love your point of view an opine on this!!

          Like
          • Paul Beauchemin
          • Paul_Beauchemin
          • 4 yrs agoWed. June 24, 2020 - 1:46 pm
          • Reported - view

          Randy B He also made significant improvements to his insulin resistance if you listen carefully. IMO that is the most important factor in the change

          Like 1
        • Paul Beauchemin
        • Paul_Beauchemin
        • 4 yrs agoWed. June 24, 2020 - 1:49 pm
        • Reported - view

        BTW, I've listened to many of this Doc's videos and had lots of interaction with him. He really doesn't understand data analysis. Early in the Covid crisis I told him the models were garbage (I did a lot of modeling in my career and can detect BS). He deleted the comment and called me out in the next video.

        Like 1
          • Fred Cloud
          • Fred_Cloud
          • 4 yrs agoWed. June 24, 2020 - 4:51 pm
          • Reported - view

          Paul Beauchemin  Dr Ford Brewer deleted your comment and called you out??

          Like
          • Paul Beauchemin
          • Paul_Beauchemin
          • 4 yrs agoWed. June 24, 2020 - 7:35 pm
          • Reported - view

          Fred Cloud yep

          Like
        • BobM
        • BobM
        • 4 yrs agoWed. June 24, 2020 - 8:34 pm
        • Reported - view

        LDL-P testing:

        Just FYI, LEF has a blood test which includes this- (no separate test??)

        NMR LipoProfile with Lipids.  $74.25 today.

        #LC123810.

        This is LabCorp test 123810.

        Like 2
          • BobM
          • BobM
          • 4 yrs agoMon. July 13, 2020 - 3:41 pm
          • Reported - view

          BobM BobM 

          Hi Folks, Results are back from the LDL-P / NMR LipoProfile Test by LEF.

          See attached.  Overall, results were excellent, except LDL size.

          My LDL-P was very low at 504 (<1000 is considered low).

          LDL-C 49 (0-99 ideal).

          HDL-C 57

          Triglycerides, 51

          Total Cholesterol, 116

          Small LDL-P, 286 (<527 is good

          LDL SIze, 19.8 = LOW, >20.5 is desirable.

          Now this LDL size thing is complex. Here is some explanation:

           https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2014286/#:~:text=More%20recent%20studies%20using%20cryoelectron,to%20size%2C%20density%20and%20composition.

          Still, none of this makes sense to me as to a test I might use in the future to measure  some reduction of plaque or improvement in health measure. Perhaps the Crestor is working already??   Other than LDL size ( a topic by itself), how much better can my blood work get? I cannot see that LDL-P relates to my high plaque buildup, in my case.

          Comment on timing: This test was 2 months after my 2 stints. I changed to Crestor about 4 weeks ago. Also increase fish oil 1/3 about 2 weeks ago. 

          The 1-week previous testing (standard blood test) data mainly showed a large difference in Triglycerides. During that week interval, no changes in meds or diet. :

          Total Cholesterol, 119

          Triglycerides, 102  (vs 51 in the new test result).

          LDL Calc, 54

          HDL Choles, 45

           

          I am thinking the CIMT test for plaque MAY be the best tool. I hope to start a monitor for this at Mayo, after meeting my new Cardio Vascular doc in a month.

          As always, everyone's comments and opinions are welcomed!

          • Peter H. Howe
          • Peter_H_Howe
          • 4 yrs agoMon. July 13, 2020 - 6:17 pm
          • Reported - view

          BobM  Thanks for sharing . Offer the following comments. In terms of LDC-P, the lower the better as a higher value indicates greater density and thus more problems. My reading of your blood work indicates that you are doing exceptionally well. The increase in fish oil, if only for a week as I read your timeline, reduced your  triglycerides from the previous 2 values you reported as expected. This reduction is undoubtedly the reason your LDC-P is so low. Note also the reduction in your Tri/HDL ratio to less than 1.

          Attached is a overview of the various merits of the LDL-C and P that is readable by most novices like myself..

          https://www.docsopinion.com/2012/11/21/the-difference-between-ldl-c-and-ldl-p/

          Note that  reducing triglycerides is reported as one of the principal methods of reducing particle size and the mechanism involved is explained. At the bottom of the article is a section entitled "Effect of Therapies".  It does mention fish oil as one way to decrease particle size, but does not emphasize its value or the positive interaction with statins when taken together. All of this was explained to me by a Dr Davis over 20 years ago.

          In terms of plaque, my fish oil has prevented a build up over the 20 past years based on my carotid intima measurements. If you google fish oil and plaque you will see multiple papers that documents this, but I did not see any articles that document active plaque removal by fish oil. Accordingly,  I cannot comment on how to remove high levels of plaque if they exist. You had three suggestion which have considerable merit from other readers of your thread. You may want to discuss with your cardiologist after you review your carotid measurements.

          A final comment for now. Most cardiologists that I have met with over the past years do not support the use of fish oil, or if they do, only prescription Vespa, as they believe over the counter is not of any value. This comes directly from AHA who steadfastly denied until 2 years ago any  value of fish oil in terms of preventing a heart attack. It was only when the prescription form was shown to have some value that the AHA relented somewhat. Note that ~ 600,000 people a year die from ischemic heart attacks in the U.S.  This is the single greatest cause of mortality, although it is being reduced somewhat and cancer is catching up.

          Let us know what Mayo cardiologists recommend.

          Like 1
          • David H
          • David_Hanson
          • 4 yrs agoMon. August 17, 2020 - 4:12 pm
          • Reported - view

           BobM I wouldn't trust whoever put the stents in (doctor and the hospital) unless you were having a heart attack. "Although both physicians and patients continue to believe in the life-saving ability of coronary stenting, little data exist to support this belief outside of when used during an acute myocardial infarction." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5880567/

          Like
        • Randy B
        • Randall_Bagrowski
        • 4 yrs agoWed. June 24, 2020 - 10:08 pm
        • Reported - view

        That's usually where I get my NMR Test done. Very convenient.

        Like
        • BobM
        • BobM
        • 4 yrs agoThu. June 25, 2020 - 3:34 pm
        • Reported - view

        Thanks again for everyones help.

        Vitamin K2 MK-7 has a lot of potential to actually reduce artery plaque build up.

        Here is some good info on the mechanisms of its actions to reduce calcium, plaque and artery stiffening:

        https://nutrition.basf.com/global/en/human-nutrition/products/vitamin-k2.html

        K2 MK-7 action: "Activation of matrix Gla protein in the smooth muscle cells of arterial walls. The Matrix Gla protein binds calcium and brings it BACK into blood."

        Dose: 180 to 380 mcg daily (from several sources). LEF Super K is not enough....

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