Azithromycin kill/eliminate 97% senescent cells

I assume we're gonna need to get an rx if we're going to self experiment?

11/28/18
"Publishing in the journal Aging (US), a team from the University of Salford's Translational Medicine Laboratories compared the effects of a panel of FDA-approved drugs, on i) normal cells and ii) senescent cells, derived from human skin and lungs.

At a single low-dosage, Azithromycin was shown to effectively kill and eliminate the senescent cells, with an efficiency of 97 percent.

Moreover, the normal healthy cells thrived in the presence of Azithromycin.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-11-antibiotics-senescent-cells-ageing.html

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  • This is amazing! 

    How do you think we might test for the results in a standard blood test?

    Best source for this?

    Like 1
  • This is the problem with "cell studies." The authors decided to look at what they called a "low dose" of azithromycin (AZM) on cells. They found that 50 uM did nothing, and they needed 100 uM.

    https://www.aging-us.com/article/101633/text

    That sounds low, but it's not for serum. The MW of AZM is 749 u so 100 uM is basically 75 mg/L.  That's far, far over normal therapeutic serum levels of AZM, which hit Cmax of a few TENTHS of a mg/L on a standard Z-pak dose of 250 mg a day (5 mg/kg a day).

    In mice 200 mg/kg AZM results in Cmax concentrations of 15 mg/L, which is only 1/5th of 75 mg/kg. (Girard, et al 2005). If the results scale linearly (no guarantees), it would take a dose of 1 gram/kg AZM to get to the senolytic 75 mg/L in the serum. This  would be 50 grams AZM for a 50 kg person, which is 200 standard 250 mg AZM pills. That's a ridiculous amount.

    Fortunately, AZM doses in tissues are up to 100 times those in serum (now we're back to 2 pills taken at once, at best), but unfortunately this varies by the tissue. For example in rectal tissues, a 1 g dose of AZM (4 standard pills = about 20 mg/kg) resulted in a mean Cmax of 133 mg/kg concentration in tissue. This is twice the theoretical senolytic concentation.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28350806

    So a 20 mg/kg dose might be enough for senolytic effects in some other tissues, but we can't simply push the dose of AZM arbitrarily, as it has a cardiac proarrythmic side effect.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28408648

    In humans, 30 mg/kg (a dose of about 6 pills or 1.5 g at once) is about the limit people have used in 1-dose treatment of STDs and ear infections. That's probably right at the edge of what we are looking for and the cardiac effects limit much exploration of higher doses.

    That's probably not coincidence!  The cardiac toxicity is probably due to high tissue concentration and inhibition of cardiac mitochrondria-- exactly what is happening in senolytic therapy and anti-cancer-stem cell therapy. We can probably expect that the therapeutic window of all drugs that work this way, is not that large. At doses a few times what kills cancer stem cells and senile cells, we start to get effects on normal cells. If that's in your heart, it's not something you can tolerate for a bit, like "chemo." Instead you might be dead from just momentary problems.

    Like 3
  • Would there be any impact on taking, say, 100 mg once a week over time as far as the sinolytic effect?  The viewpoints expressed seem to imply that there would be a reason to take a bolus 20mg/kg all at once - would this be the only practical way to do it?

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  • I took 1 gram of AZ per day for two days and repeated one month later.

    No heart issues, but as to the effectiveness I cannot say.

    I've done the Mayo Clinic protocol (20mg/kl) twice over two months.  I also did an additional third month at 30mg/kl.

    Fisetin seems to have had an excellent effect on my thinking skills.  Not grasping for words so much.  The AZ seems to have caused me considerable joint pain about a week after taking it, which disappeared after a day or so.  Afterwards, I began to feel much better.  But again, I don't know if it isn't just a placibo effect.

    Having blood work done next month to compare with the results from last September.

    After that, I decide whether or not to go around with D&Q and then start on Rapamycin @ 3mg every three weeks, titrating up to 5mg per week.

    I'll be checking B/W as I go.

    At the end of 6 months, depending on what I find, I'll be repeating the senolytics.

    My presciption LE stack contains:

    Telmisartan

    Aspirin

    Metformin

    Tadalafil

    Selegiline (low dose 5mg for Parkinson's prevention)

    Ursodiol (for a gallstone and Parkinson's prevention)

    Isradipine (both for hypertension and Parkinson's prevention.  Family history.

    Atorvastatin (low-dose, in combination with high dose IR Niacin 2gms per day)

    And lots of other non-prescription supplements.  Unsurprisingly, many are also taken by Ray Kurzweil.

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    • Gavril Villiamovich .... from your post I was unclear if fisetin protocol had the same dose as AZ. Can you clarify? I have purchased 2 bottles of fisetin.

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    • are we there yet No, I took 1 gram of AZ on two consecutive days.  I repeated this a week later.  The fisetin was 300mg.  The Mayo clinic protocol called for 180mg, but I decided to fit those zombie cells harder.

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    • are we there yet 

      Like
    • Steve Harris Unlike azithromicin, fisetin is non toxic. The dose based on mouse studies is roughly 500 ppm in food chow or (for humans) something like 100 mg 4 times a day (400 mg a day in divided doses, or roughly 5 mg/kg). Twice this much (10 mg/kg in divided doses) if you can afford it, is probably fine.

      And take it for 2 weeks not 2 days, in case we need senolytics based on our slower metabolic rate with respect to mice. Our cell division and specific metabolic rate is about 1/7 th mice.

      In short, azithromycin scares me. Be careful with  it, as above. Fisetin does not scare me. Take all you like. 

      Like 1
    • Steve Harris I don't disagree.  I only went for the two mega doses of Fisetin to follow the Mayo Clinic protocol.  How much Fisetin would you take daily for two weeks?  I also ask this, because I've done this with Fisetin 4 times during the past 6 months, and each time I did it, I felt great for about a week.

      Like 1
    • Gavril Villiamovich 

      Gavril Villiamovich said:
      ... Fisetin 4 times during the past 6 months, and each time I did it, I felt great for about a week.

      Similar for me.  Feeling great started the first day (of 3-day dose).  Continued for about a week, then gradually tapered off, "back to normal".  Since Fisetin is not toxic, is there any benefit to taking Fisetin more frequently, perhaps 2x/month?

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  • Like other medicines, Generic Zithromax (Azithromycin) can cause some side effects. If they occur, the side effects of Generic Zithromax (Azithromycin) are most likely to be minor and temporary and may go away during treatment as the body adjusts to the prescribed Generic Zithromax (Azithromycin). However, some may be serious and need medical attention and may require the individual to inform the doctor or visit the nearest hospital.

    Like 1
  • Dr. Green has opened a new web site to Senescence to his anti aging protocol of Rapamycin.  He uses 

    Dasatinib  100 mg x 3 days (has own brand compounded by pharmacy for much cheaper)

    Zithromycin  500 mg x days week

    Fisetin.   1500 mg x 3 days

    https://senolyticstreatment.com/

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    • Van I'm thinking I'll give it a try, as I have all three laying around.

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      • Van
      • Van
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Gavril Villiamovich I have used Fistein 20mg/kg x 2 consective day once a month and antibotic 500 mg x 3 times per week. Zithromycin can be bought across counter here in Spain, Fistein powder I buy from Amazon.es. 20g

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      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Van I am wondering for followup senolytic rounds if multiple day courses is necessary? I can see how multiple day rounds are needed for first time courses, but for followup rounds that people are doing every month, I wonder if a single monthly dose might be sufficient. Considering the toxicity and price of dastanib and foxo4-dri it might be important to figure this out.

      Like
      • Van
      • Van
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Fred Cloud Dr Green recommends 1 cycle every 3 month for anti aging. Once month for specific disease treatment senolyticstreatment.com

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      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Van Sorry for the confusion. I was trying to question whether a multi day course versus a single day course was really necessary for followup rounds.

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      • Van
      • Van
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Fred Cloud 3 days every 3 months

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      • Fred Cloud
      • Fred_Cloud
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Van I don't think you are following me, I am saying perhaps multi day rounds arent needed and a single day round will suffice.

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  • This begs the question of those using Hydroxychloriquine and Zithromycin successfully - is killing senescent cells part of the mechanism for reducing the inflammation seen in Covid-19 patients?

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      • Van
      • Van
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Paul Beauchemin Read Dr. Greens treatment for Covid 19 at above website.

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