Weekly rapamycin and protein/resistance training regimen
Hi everyone,
I'm planning to start my first dose this weekend (50 yo male) and have been wondering something that I've never seen addressed by the gurus. On the day I take the weekly dose (or even for a day or 2 after that?) should I avoid protein powder supplementation and/or lifting weights, since these activate mTOR and could conceivably work against the rapamycin? Maybe I should even do a short-term fast or condensed fast-mimicking period each week around the time I take the rapa which could add to the mTOR suppression and hence amplify the positive effects on autophagy? Any thoughts on this? Thanks!
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I am high DAILY exerciser, both resistance and aerobic. I take my Rapamycin once per week, irrespective of my normal meal timing/macros or exercise. Rapamycin has a half life of 60-80 hrs. There are mTOR INDEPENDENT and Rapamycin INDEPENDENT pathways to muscle building. This is the "myth" of Rapamycin blunting exercise. It's very complex. I wouldn't do anything contrary to your optimal health protocols.
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Interested to hear answers also.
My understanding its that the inhibition of mTOR via rapamcyin can't be "undone" just by exercising or eating high protein/glucose meals.Could be worth tweeting your question to @Blagosklonny on Twitter also - and see if he replies.
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Thanks! I'll try @Blagosklonny. Even though the drug has a long half-life, when we're dosing it weekly it's still down to 1/2 concentration in about 2 or 2.5 days, so wouldn't we want to make the most out of those couple of days where rapamycin concentration is highest? Perhaps by doing things that add/synergize with mTOR inhibition (fasting or modified fasting with low protein, avoiding resistance training, etc)?
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David There are mTOR independant ways to build and to conserve muscles. In vivo and in vitro studies indicate that citrulline can have a positive impact on muscle protein syntesis independantly of mTOR activation. (If you are interested, I posted links related to Citrulline in another thread.)
"Studies have indicated that the non-proteinogenic amino acid citrulline, through its conversion to arginine, can manipulate skeletal muscle protein metabolism in vivo."
"Incubation with the mTOR inhibitor, rapamycin, prevented the protective
effect of arginine, but not citrulline, on myotube diameter. Both citrulline and arginine increase mTOR phosphorylation and protein synthetic rate in an in vitro model of starvation. Importantly, mTOR phosphorylation is critical for the protective effects of arginine, but not citrulline, on skeletal muscle. Therefore, citrulline may attenuate muscle wasting in vitro by directly activating proteins downstream of mTOR, such as 4EBP1" -
Staffan Olsson Interesting, but I wonder if by activating proteins downstream of mTOR, citrulline might also block some of the beneficial effects of rapamycin?
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I think it's worth for a while to stop taking protein powder and also stop lifting weights. It is better to eat regular food like buckwheat and vegetables, and any active sport contributes to vasoconstriction, which works against rapamycin. I also suppose that you can use prendo.com simulations. They will analyze your health characteristics, current state, and make a conclusion whether you can train, or if you should refrain from training for a while. In addition, you will learn how to act quickly in critical situations related to health, and gain skills in order to save your own or someone else's life.
