NAD+ Patches

I recently purchased NAD+ from the NAD treatment center in San Diego.  I purchased the NAD+ patches, 6 each @ 400mg each.  The patches are a electrophoresis type patch that uses a battery to drive the NAD+ into the skin. The six patches were $300.00. I spoke with Jennifer ( 944-623-7587 ext. 5) at the center who arranged telephone consultation with Dr. Milgram.  The product was fulfilled by Archway Apothecary in Covington, La.  I also purchased a NAD+ nasal spray which the Doc said goes directly to the brain.  To date I have used three patches and continue to daily take NR.  After completing the patches I will post my results/impressions.

Best,

David Michel

109replies Oldest first
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Active threads
  • Popular
    • djmichel
    • CDR Phx
    • djmichel
    • 6 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    I purchase Trillium Fisetin from Amazon, 50 grams , provides 50 one gram servings.  Comes with a one gram spoon.  Cost is 50 dollars.  See link

    https://www.amazon.com/Fisetin-Supplement-Servings-Concentration-Available/dp/B07JR67V2Y/ref=sr_1_7?m=A23XIXJ22PNFQY&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1541249009&sr=1-7

    Like 2
      • Dennis
      • Retired USAF pilot, biochemist.
      • Dennis
      • 5 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      David Michel I purchased two of the Trillium Fisetins (50g) also and will start tomorrow. Just finishing 4th Swanson bottle of 30x100mg since I took 10 caps on one test and 14 caps on a second test (senolytic) and 4 caps many days to keep foot pain reduced >50%! Likely to be some decent pain reliever in the Swanson fisetin bottles (likely fisetin)!

      Like
    • Danmoderator
    • skipping my funeral
    • dantheman
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Note: through my doctor I'm ordering the patches from Archway, when you get a prescription you need to specify what duration patches (4 hour or 8 hour) and number of packs (6 patches to a pack). 

    Like 1
      • Deb63
      • Deb63
      • 5 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Dan Thank you si much for this info..

      Like
    • Danmoderator
    • skipping my funeral
    • dantheman
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    David Michel  I'll be getting the patches in a week or two, any other suggestions on use? Where on the arm do you put it, upper arm? How does the electrophoresis work, battery pack in the pocket?

    Like 2
      • djmichel
      • CDR Phx
      • djmichel
      • 5 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Dan Mc  Dan, I alternate arms as the patch will cause some irritation on the arm.   I bought them through the company reference earlier.  I keep them on 8 hours, and I purchased a package of six patches.   Each patch has it's own battery.  The patches work by the NAD+ being driven into the body by the current flowing between the positive side of the patch( where the NAD+ is placed) and the negative side where the sterile water supplied with the patches is placed.  How much are you paying and did you have a prescription?

      Like 1
      • Danmoderator
      • skipping my funeral
      • dantheman
      • 5 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      David Michel Hi David, thanks that helps. I have a prescription I forwarded to Archway, but with the holidays they've been closed so will finalize the order on Monday. Two sets of six, I don't know the price yet but I believe it's around $320. Can't remember where I got that number from, might have been around the forums here or elsewhere. I'll update the forum with the price and results as they come in. 

      I'm also doing daily extensive biomarker testing + blood work so will monitor whether anything shows up in the results. 

      Like 2
    • Danmoderator
    • skipping my funeral
    • dantheman
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    David Michel  Looks like the cost is around the $99/6 I heard originally. I'm getting them this week (Archway is great to work with) and will update on how it goes. 

    Like 1
    • Danmoderator
    • skipping my funeral
    • dantheman
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    OK I got the patches and will start today. Some notes ...

     

    • Yes the cost is under $100/6
    • The patches come in a 4 hour and 8 hour, I chose 8 hour, the instructions note that 8 will deliver full dose for most people but 12 hours will fully discharge for all, so I will leave on 12 hours (6:30AM-6:30PM)
    • The patch comes with saline vials - these are not used. The NAD instructions on the bottle are apply 1 mL (20 drops) to positive (+) side of patch, and these are 1 mL patches so that is all that is needed. 
    • The instruction video says to use saline AND medication, however the instructions say "1 mL of saline and/or medication". So it sounds like the pads take a maximum of 1mL, and the NAD amount to add is 1mL, so it seems to just use the NAD (which is already buffered by saline it appears - it's a liquid suspension)
    • Don't shower with the patch or get it wet ... OK so I'll need to shower earlier 
    • Clip hairs/don't shave, presumably because they'll be pulling off from the adhesive
    • Looks like it can go anywhere, I'll do upper arm
    • Start in the middle when filling and go outwore, leave 3mm unfilled around the edge. 
    • When applying, don't press the center of the pad, just the adhesive edges. 
    • As David Michel  noted, use warm water and soap to remove. They suggest skin moisturizer in between treatments. 

     

    Will report later.

     

    There's videos available here on the product

    Like 1
    • Danmoderator
    • skipping my funeral
    • dantheman
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Important correction! (Maximums, the timeout for editing a post should be much longer) - the saline is used on the negative electrode. Of course, you need a nice electrical circuit completion. So 20 drops of NAD on +, and 1mL saline on -. 

     

    I suggest getting the edge of the bandage up a bit before doing the NAD and saline, easier to apply the bandage later. Get an edge up on both sides as it's split in the middle. 

    I didn't find applying it difficult, didn't need toothpicks or anything. Also note it's a big patch, might want to check the size and placement first before applying. 

    Like 1
    • Rudi Hoffman
    • World's Leading Cryonics Funder
    • Rudi
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi Dan and LEF/Rescue Elders Colleagues,

    Thanks for your helpful and detailed reporting on NAD patches...I look forward to  hearing about your outcomes/results.  To be fair, I take three handfuls of meds/vitamins/neutriceuticals a day, and don't feel different on any of them.  I take them because there is reasonably good, but far from perfect, science/data indicating that long term outcomes are helpful.  We all know this.  We could take opium and probably feel great short range, with unfortunate long range effects.  

    Which doesn't mean I don't want to hear you telling me you feel like King Kong on these NAD patches, Dan! :)

    Rudi

    Like
    • Danmoderator
    • skipping my funeral
    • dantheman
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Rudi  Well I happen to be starting testosterone replacement at the same time (this morning) as the NAD, so I suspect I will feel like King Kong, but not because of the NAD! I'm measuring about 20 daily biomarkers (BP, peripheral perfusion index, HRV, glucose etc etc), plus all the blood tests baselined, PLUS just did a DNA methylation test (urine) this morning, so if there are any effects I should see some effect in the biomarkers. HRV (Heart Rate Variability) is highly sensitive to age, mood, exercise and general health, so I am looking to that in particular. 

     

    Side note on supplements, I take a lot. The only ones that have a macro effect are phosphitydlcholine, CoQ10 and ALC/ALA (acetyl-lipoic-carnetine/alpha-lipoic-acid). Note, phosphitydlcholine has great benefit for your cellular membranes and you notice the effect with much better/younger skin, but don't take it if you are a meat eater. 

     

    NAD: suggestion, upper arm works well and I recommend using your non dominant arm. It does restrict movement a bit, and I feel that I don't want to overly tax the patch, so non dominant seems to be working out well. Also makes it easier to apply as you can use your dominant hand to apply and take off.

     

    Also when applying, remember to leave a dry strip of a few mm around the edge of the electrode center pad. I'll post some pictures of this tomorrow. 

     

    So far seems like it feels a little tingly maybe. It's just a coin cell battery which is 3V DC - very low, so probably my imagination. The rate at which it diffuses depends on your skin conductivity - as mentioned for most people it drops precipitously after 8 hours and is exhausted by 12. I actually have a sensitive (uV)  DVM so can measure my conductivity, but since I don't know the perfusion rate vs ohm for this patch it won't help. I'll poke around the specs from the company and see if I can estimate my diffusion rate with this path. 

    Like 3
      • Rudi Hoffman
      • World's Leading Cryonics Funder
      • Rudi
      • 5 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Dan Mc 

      Helpful response, Dan!   You know that for multiple reasons we want you thriving a LONG time... :)
      Rudi

      Like 1
    • Danmoderator
    • skipping my funeral
    • dantheman
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Friends, final results. 

    I took pictures but there's nothing worth looking at. The procedure was painless, taking the patches off was easy and I didn't need hot water. Just easily peeled off. The + NAD side was dry and the saline was still damp, which is good indicating that all of the NAD should have made it into my system (I went for 12 hours just to be sure). I can 'feel' the spot where it was done but at the moment it doesn't hurt, will see how it feels tomorrow. Maybe it's a tiny bit sore. Just in case (I've got five more) I'll switch arms tomorrow, defying my idea of doing it on the non dominant arm. No marks otherwise. 

    While it was on, early in the day it seems like I could feel a pin prick that wasn't painful. Could be my imagination. Anyhow I call it a success so far, beats the hell out of going to an IV clinic and sitting around all day. 

    Like 2
    • Danmoderator
    • skipping my funeral
    • dantheman
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Thread spamming ... the kit comes with a technical overview page which is very detailed, and very interesting. The positive electrode is precisely zinc coated and the negative is silver chloride coated. I wondered about this which is why I checked, the positive electrode had a oxidized green color at the end of the day which wasn't there earlier. What happens is that on a purely bi-metallic galvanic basis there's about 1V potential between the terminals, with the addition of a coin cell you get about a 4V potential between the terminals. 

    The medication is either 'positive' or 'negative', presumably this means it's buffered with a ionic solution in either case. So a positive medicine/positive solution will pull into the skin, being attracted to the negative terminal. Once in the skin it'll get carried off by the blood stream. Electrode coatings are consumed during the application which is why the positive looks oxidized at the end of the day. 

    Lot's more technical detail including clinical studies in the brief, but overall I'm convinced this is a safe and effective NAD method, at a bargain price. The pills are rather expensive, now I'm wishing I could discontinue them to save some money. 

    Rudi  I don't feel different so far other than the probable effects from the T therapy (hopefully though I'll sleep better tonight). If I really cared to measure on quality of life basis I would have done them separately, but I'd rather start them both sooner. By the way it is possible I think to measure 'wellbeing'. I do this by measuring galvanic skin response, HRV (which is extraordinarily affected by wellbeing), and by taking an EEG snapshot during rest and active concentration, plus my other daily biomarkers. Soft heuristics are noting sleep quality (though I have an Oura ring coming in which will have a more discerning measure of sleep). Anyhow, since NAD's primary benefit presumably is DNA repair the best way to see if it helps you is to check your DNA methylation, which is why I did the sample for that just before starting. 

    Like
      • Danmoderator
      • skipping my funeral
      • dantheman
      • 5 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Yup, slept way better last night! For some reason I've been suffering with waking up at 3AM and not going back to sleep, or back to a good sleep (common problem).  Last night I woke up at 3 on the dot, did a 'oh noes ...' and next thing I know I wake up again at my normal time 5AM with 8 hours sleep, and feel wonderful. The arm feels fine. 

      Day two today. 

      Like 1
    • djmichel
    • CDR Phx
    • djmichel
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Dan, thanks for the update on your patches. I did notice so irritation on the day following patch removal.  I also alternated arms.  I do have to say I have not noticed anything one way or the other using the patches.  My concern is the efficacy of the patch vs IV infusion.  I understand that there is a study that is supposed to be out this month that may answer this question.

    Like 1
      • Danmoderator
      • skipping my funeral
      • dantheman
      • 5 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      djmichel Bill F stated on video that their test found no difference, maybe the study coming out is from his group. Otherwise I don't see any reason to doubt it. The only difference with IV is needle (push system) versus electrophoresis (pull). Once the molecules are pulled into the skin they'll get flushed away, and I verified that the cathode pad was quite dry after 12 hours. 

      Otherwise like most of these treatments no physiological reaction is likely. This one is mostly for DNA methylation I believe which can only be measured. Not sure why many notice sleep changes, though I think I read it was due to the tie in with the circadian system. 

      Like 2
    • Danmoderator
    • skipping my funeral
    • dantheman
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    FYI here's a shot of the patch just before use. You can see the edges of the backing pulled up to ease application. The right side is + with the NAD and the left is saline, and there is a band of white around the NAD per the instructions. There is a silicone lip around the electrode to contain the liquid, so why didn't I do the same with the saline? The spec (fill volume you can see on the path) is 1mL which according to the NAD bottle instructions is 20 drops, however 20 drops of saline is about .5mL according to the measure embossed into the bottle. So this time I put about .8mL of saline which doesn't therefore have the band. 

    Probably messing around with this too much, tomorrow I'll probably do 20 drops of saline again. So far am sleeping like a champ and no other reactions, other than some slight irritation on the spot that goes away after a day, and maybe some small pricking I feel under the patch during the day. 

    Like 5
      • Danmoderator
      • skipping my funeral
      • dantheman
      • 5 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      By the way, it appears that I'm going to have leftover NAD solution. If you want to 'turn it to 11' then the patches can be purchased separately ($65, robbery considering the patches are $99 from Archway). Or you can save it for a 'restore booster' later on. I'll see, the listing on the bottle says '6mL' and that 20 drops is 1mL, but halfway through it appears there will be extra. Expiration date of this lot is 11-07-2018 to 3-7-2019 (no refrigeration). If there is some left at the end, recall that you have to have saline with buffered NaCL-

      Also I definitely get slight pricking sensations while it's operating, not too annoying short term. 

      Like 3
      • BobM
      • BobM
      • 5 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      DanMcL 

      I’m on Archway NAD patch #5. Using 26-27 drops, and will still have enough for a couple more patches. Also you can leave the 4 hour patch on for 5 hours. 30% Extra drops and a 25% longer wear time should increase dose quite a bit. 

      I am not seeing any negatives or skin reactions. Oh, and I am applying on an interval of every 2-3 days. First patch was normal dose (20 drops of NAD and saline, to test for any reaction). I think all of this is a good process...

      PS: age 67, pretty good cond.

      Like 1
      • BobM
      • BobM
      • 5 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      DanMcL 

      Like
      • BobM
      • BobM
      • 5 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      BobM A replacement patch kit is available on Amazon: $48. Got mine. It is the same. I had enough drops left for 2-3 more applications 😎

      Like 1
    • Danmoderator
    • skipping my funeral
    • dantheman
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Pro tip, don't put the patch too high up on your arm, put it in the middle of the upper/forearm. Up near the joint it can get bunched up if you lift your arm up. 

    Also I pulled off the cotton pad to see how dry it really was getting. Turns out there's a fair bit of material left, maybe a drop or two's worth. So I have some confusion about how much is getting delivered (20 drops per instructions doesn't seem like 1mL (but then again maybe the saline isn't calibrated in mL? Seems unlikely), and how much is getting in. 

    OTOH the included technical overview is very thorough, and agrees with this page. Interestingly this works because it's using a DC potential with ionic salts. According to the page above the delivery is through the pores - hair follicles, sweat gland ducts, rather than through the skin per se which has a high resistance. But if you're looking for more detail that page has it. 

    Like 2
  • Call me skeptical, but is there even a hint of data in published literature that NAD+ gets across skin in quantities large enough to affect physiology, iontoporesis or not? I can find none on MEDLINE.

    Just because somebody sells something, doesn't mean it works. You can (for example) buy B12 skin patches. They are garbage. You can buy B12 nasal gel, and sublingual B12, but there is no evidence that they work better than a pill, and some evidence in the case of sublingual that they work exactly as well as the same pill dose, since you eventually swallow the B12 (but you pay a LOT more money).

    Heck, you can buy magnesium ion skin creme. There is one study that claims it works, but when the Israeli army tried to replicate it, they found what you would expect: nada.

    Like 2
      • Danmoderator
      • skipping my funeral
      • dantheman
      • 5 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Steve Harris Right! Of course absence of studies isn't evidence of anything. Studies are horrifically expensive so the norm with data is that there isn't an adequate study  for it. And FWIW there's a long history of data and evidence for the effectiveness of iontoporesis in general. Anecdotally the pads are dry at the end of the day so that material is going somewhere, and being a sealed system Occam's razor says it went into the skin. 

      Regardless the basis for this is purely Bill Faloon who verified that they are equivalent to an IV. Presumably he and LE did an informal study and verified with testing, but we don't know. So it comes down to if you trust Bill's work or not, and if you don't then this probably isn't the right place to be. 

      they found what you would expect: nada.

      Coming from somebody complaining about the lack of an unbiased opinion 😀 (just niggling you)

      Like 1
Like11 Follow
  • 11 Likes
  • 2 yrs agoLast active
  • 109Replies
  • 4583Views
  • 34 Following