Did anyone experience acute inflammation after senolytics?
Hello,
I have Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. It is a condition that involves chronic inflammation. I tried 3 days of high dose Fisetin the last 3 days (1000mg/day). I have to say I feel awful now and just want to sleep (a lot more than usual)!
I noticed in another post that someone took senolytics for knee osteoarthritis and had acute knee inflammation for a couple days before seeing improvement. I wonder if that is what is happening to me, except at a gut/brain/whole body level.
Are senolytics known to activate the immune system?
Has anyone else seen an acute inflammatory state or other worsening before improving with a senolytic protocol?
Thanks!
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Phoenix,
As I'm sure you know, ME/CFS/CFIDS/SEID is a weird condition, or set of symptoms, that can have very different causes.
Myself, I have a sort of SEID (my preferred term*) , but a very, very mild variant (I'm not even close to fitting the 50% reduction in activity criterion).
I've done three rounds of dasatinib+quercetin, and just finished doing a round fisetin, according to the following schedule:
April 30, morning, fasted day before and on this day: 2400 mg = 35 mg / kg body weight.
May 1, morning: "".
May 2, morning: 1200 mg (what was left in the bottle).
(There was no serious logic to the dosing, aside from my thinking that Kirkland's new protocols involve doses that are too low, and then on the third day I just took what was left for no good reason.)
With the d+q, the first and third times, my SEID symptoms actually improved, fairly dramatically. For me, that means: [1] less fatigue, and [2] reduced left lymph and parotid gland swelling/soreness. The second time, though, I felt a tiny bit worse for a couple days.
In the case of the fisetin, my symptoms also improved (at least through today).
Brian
P.S. Traveling, so I won't be able to follow up here for a while.
* https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Systemic_Exertion_Intolerance_Disease
What I have should perhaps more properly be called: "mild, chronic recurrent mononucleosis-like syndrome". But I'd also venture that many people with SEID should also be described in the same way.
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I’ve felt better and more alert while taking. No side effects. My dosing is 1200mg/ day (400/meal) for 3 days. I’ve done monthly for 5 months now.
My Most recent dosing included some trials with dissolving Fisetin in hot olive oil, then cooking an egg in it. That worked pretty well. My wife and I also tried Whiskey shots. It would only dissolve some, then seemed quickly saturated and would not take more into solution.
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Yes, definitely a worsening of symptoms, joint and bone pains, general "off" feeling after F+Q+P (black pepper) dissolved in oil for 3 consecutive days. About a week after start of protocol started to feel mostly normal, 2 weeks started to feel (joints/bones/muscles) better than originally. My wife also did the protocol and felt nothing and had no improvement noticeable. My experience is that between 2 and 3 weeks after starting, was feeling very good. Also, a week or two after starting, we both noticed reductions in spider veins in various areas, slight but noticeable.
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Phoenix For my self-trial, I took 35mg/kg of Fisetin with 25 mg/kg of Quercetin and 20mg/kg of Turmeric and 2mg/kg of Piperine. I also take other vitamins and stuff to reduce inflammation. It did give me a slight headache, as others have noted, but I did not notice any extra inflammation. I did have some joint pain in places where I had injuries in the past, which I attributed to some senolythic activity. I think the combination caused the fast bowel movement that happened the next day, but this was not unexpected given what I was doing to my body.
It does make sense that the autoimmune system is activated to remove the senescent materials, but I have not had that piece explained to me yet.
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The mornings after I took the treatments (3 days on, every other week, for 3 treatments so far of Myricetin, Fisetin and Q), I had elevated temperatures above normal. I constantly chart my temp, so am certain. I read someone's post elsewhere that they speculated that a fever could indicate activation of the immune system to clear out the trash from senolytics killing off senescent cells. I personally didn't detect noticeable inflammation during or after my treatments though.
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Phoenix Any updates on this?
This sounds like a herx. The fisetin must have killed something off, maybe just senescent cells or maybe fisetin is able to kill off pathogens also?
What if CFS is in fact an overload of senescent cells??
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From my experience, it can take many months to years to see results. In the meantime, there will be side effects.
