Rapamycin Cost
Let me clear some things up for people considering rapamycin (generic sirolimus). I am taking it and so are my dogs!! (I have a very open-minded vet who trusts my judgement.)
Dr. Green, a very impressive individual, gave me my personal prescription for sirolimus. I have a very good PPO (Blue Cross/Blue Shield). I took it to CVS, the affiliated pharmacy, and got a great price of about $2.90/mg. (Remember, you are only going to take about 3-6 mg/week.) With a PPO you can probably do this also. CVS wants to meter it to you with a month's worth of doses at a time, but that's just how they do things. You still have access to the full quantity prescribed.
With the prescription from my vet for my dogs, I was forced to take to the open sea. Armed with only a prescription and no insurance, the picture is quite different, but you can still get a good price. Cutting to the chase, I ended up at Walmart. The prescription was for 90 mg - price $1440. But wait! after presenting a coupon downloaded from GoodRX (that's right, just anonymously downloaded and printed) - price $396!!!! As my vet remarked, that's a hell of a charge for not looking around first! ($4.40/mg is better than taking a risk buying online, in my opinion.) Costco is pretty close to that price. At CVS/RiteAid, etc., you will pay vastly more.
You can't touch the original drug rapamune (Pfizer) unless you are wealthy or go to Canada. The problem with the online pharmacies is that a lot of them are scams. Just because they have a website doesn't mean anything. At least check to see if they have a brick and mortar location. Example: At one point I was excited by the online infomercials and wanted to take NMN instead of NR; however, when I looked up the reputations of the suppliers only one was unsullied, and on further investigation their brick and mortar location turned out to be a residential dwelling!
FYI, more than one company makes sirolimus. From CVS the sirolimus was made by Greenstone, LLC, apparently a wholly owned subsidiary of Pfizer.
Hope that helps some people who are considering rapamycin but think it might be out of their reach. If you know a doctor, great, but if you don't a visit to Dr. Green is worth the trip, and I live in CA! (round trip less than $300) Do your homework first and you will learn a great deal.
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I've been reading these postings, some of them old, some of them recent, with interest. I must say that that there are different concepts of what slowing down aging means, and people are arguing about methods, when in fact they are really arguing about the meaning. Someone believes that slowing down aging means preventing the physical decline of muscle (sarcopenia) by taking HGH. Someone else believes in slowing down aging at the molecular level by mimicking calorie reduction through Rapamycin , or by actually fasting. I've always felt that if slowing down aging meant that I had to weight 140 pounds and not be able to pick up my grandchild off the floor, I probably did not want that for myself. It does seem from all the research articles I've read that in order to accept a more youthful molecular makeup, you have to sacrifice the actual advantages of youth (e.g. strength, speed, food). I don't think that either extreme is useful. In my case, I am 64 years old, but my biological age is 10-15 years younger. I attribute it to my being a weightlifter since I was 18, and not smoking, drinking excessively, or doing any drugs. When much younger and thinking of becoming a professional bodybuilder I turned down steroids, and HGH, because I did not believe they were safe. And from the experience of friends over the years, I was probably correct in that assessment. At 64, I have no high BP, no evidence of cardiovascular disease, no diabetes, no prostate problems, no ED, and only recently developed gray hairs. I can do things at my age that people half my age wish they could do. But 2 years ago, when I saw my HA1C creep up to 5.5, I started taking Metformin preventively, and I also started doing a modified 16-8 eating window. So I'm not averse to trying things. My point is that there are tradeoffs, and the goal should be to live longer with a reasonably youthful molecular makeup, while not having to be a weak, puny 140 lbs. If that means sacrificing some years, I would be for that (but I realize not everyone may share my sentiment).
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Ellis Toussier Ellis Toussier Hematocrit 41.50% Hemoglobin 14,000
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Hello Van... well, there it is... "Average" Hematocrit is 45%, and yours is only 41.5%... although almost all "doctors" would tell you that's "okay", I am not a doctor but I have 20 years experience with feedback from people that have less than 45% Hematocrit, and they all feel the same... BY DEFINITION, it is still not called "anemia"... but you are very close to the definition of "anemia"... Look up "anemia" on Google, and you will see that anemia is associated with many other degenerative conditions.
To begin with, all of the NEURONS in your body need OXYGEN... And less oxygen, means some of those neurons suffer. You were born with all of your nervous system... but for various reasons, some of our neurons die... we lose them...
But you should avoid at all costs to lose neurons, because WE ARE our nervous system. As we lose neurons, we become slower, we lose memory, we lose abilities.
That particular lost neuron will never be alive again. And as we get older, we lose neurons for many reasons... perhaps by accidents, perhaps by poisons, perhaps because the circulatory system gets blocked up by sugar and so blood (and oxygen) does not reach certain neurons... goodbye, neurons. Neurons can be substituted
by other neurons, but every neuron has a "memory" and once that memory is lost,
another neuron might try to replace it, but it is never quite as good as before.
That is "normal Aging"...
But you don't want to be "normal". You want to be "abnormal"
you want to NOT lose neurons. And with low red blood cells, you WILL lose neurons.... slowly... but you have to try to not let it happen. Go see a
hematologist, ask him to help you to raise your red blood cells.
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Ellis Toussier I believe I will do that. Will not tell him I have been on Rapamycin for 4 years. I eat a lot of red meat, I am keto, 71", 165 lbs. which is perfect for me. So getting iron and also take B complex mainly for folic acid and B2 which are needed in red blood cell development. Will report back
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I have seen numerous cases of low hemoglobin in the elderly, including my grandmother and my father, and also elderly friends. The medical community seems to believe that because it's in the elderly, it's ok. In 1998, my grandmother, 89 yrs old at the time, was hospitalized with low hemoglobin and some dizziness. She was given a transfusion which bumped up her hemoglobin and made her dizziness better, but it made he breathing more difficult. As the days progressed and her hemoglobin dropped, her breathing would get better but her dizziness would return. She was put through all kinds of test to eliminate the usual causes of low hemoglobin but they could find nothing. She was transferred from one hospital to another. Meanwhile, they continued to give her transfusions every 3-4 days, with the same effects as explained before. Finally one day she became septic, probably due to her immune system being compromised because of the regular transfusions, few days later developed general organ failure and died. At our insistence, they did an autopsy and discovered two small lesions in her heart, each about 6 months old (which made me recollect an episode of radicular arm pain she had had for a while). In other words, she'd had 2 small heart attacks, which had probably left her with congestive heart failure, which most likely was causing a bone marrow insufficiency leading to low rbc/hemoglobin. My father has also been living with low hemoglobin for 3 years (12.7 g/dL), and I can't seem to be able to convince anyone to treat it with Erythropoietin (I realize it's expensive). "Coincidently", during the last 3 years he developed MCI and now AD. I do wonder if anemia is incidental to AD. It can certainly make matters worse.
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roger larre A major cause of anemia in seniors is low Testosterone levels. I do not know if your relatives had their T tested but this is one of the first things a good gerontologist will do. Second, low T and estrogen are major contributors to dementia. You can verify contribution of steroid hormones to both of these issues with a short Google inquiry.
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roger larre Sorry to hear about your grandmother and father.
Recent review article on the issue:
The Impact of Low Hemoglobin Levels on Cognitive Brain Functions
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7723430/pdf/cureus-0012-00000011378.pdf
Many association theories, but no direct causation proof.
Actually, indirectly, I am in the "dumping iron" camp...trying to reduce my iron stores as low as possible without causing anemia related conditions. Iron is a pro oxidant, and associated with cognitive diseases (Alzheimer, Parkinsons). It's a simple and grand theory that might also explain why women live longer than men (men have continuous buildup of iron stores, whereas for women, only after menopause, which is when their risk of CVD increases).
https://roguehealthandfitness.com/category/iron/ (a good review of iron implicated in many diseases)
Haem metabolism is implicated as pro aging.
Multivariate genomic scan implicates novel loci and haem metabolism in human ageing
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7366647/pdf/41467_2020_Article_17312.pdf
I freely donate 500mL of blood every 8 weeks (the maximum frequency here), and my Ferritin is in the 15 level. Males have no reason to have a Ferritin higher than 50. Most people are walking around with Ferritin FAR higher. My doc is "freaking out" that my Ferritin is so low, but he's old school trained. I am teaching him many new things related to keto & thyroid, iron, fasting, aging. I am a heavy daily exerciser in excellent cardio/muscular shape. I eat animal protein, nuts, dark chocolate so I have no worries about depleting my iron levels.
Donating blood is also a way to dilute "old" blood and rejuvenate, which is implicated in some exciting new work on blood dilution/young blood aging factors as pro longevity (extensions of Paribiosis work on old/young mice pairings)
https://www.lifespan.io/news/conboy-interview/
http://www.programmed-aging.org/theory-3/Katcher.html
https://www.longevity.technology/new-young-blood-plasma-research-creates-a-stir/
My thinking is that if you can go into old age in SUPERB physical shape, watching biomarkers, then excess iron is NOT a requirement, and in fact, may be pro aging.
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roger larre most doctors don't understand anemia. Even here, on the age-reversal forum, a "doctor" said that hemoglobin 13 in an Old Man (Dr. Green) is okay because it is "equivalent to 14" in a younger man... and he said that low hemoglobin is "normal" in old men, so therefore it is acceptable. Completely, totally, he and most doctors don't understand anemia, or the harm that it does. It doesn't HURT (and it doesn't... ) so they don't try to fix it.
And they are AFRAID of EPO. Somewhere they read that EPO "thickens the blood" and they are scared that they will cause a heart attack. Yes, EPO thickens the blood... but too thin blood is also bad. They don't think about that. Your grandmother would have been much better off if they had injected her with EPO, than with blood transfusions.
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roger larre Blood cells are made from hematopoietic cells, we are born with about 20,000 and as you age they die or become senescent. A woman that died when she was 115 years old had only 2 hematopoietic cells left to make her blood cells. So this seems likely the cause of low hemoglobin in the elderly.
This study looked into it and found it wasnt testosterone and said it was aging or unknown, seems strange, sounds like lack of functioning hematopoietic cells.
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Fred Cloud Fred, there are multiple studies that document testosterone treatment alleviates anemia in senior men. Just google the topic and see what happens. This is standard protocol for gerontologists that I was introduced to 20 years ago.
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peter_h_h@owe
Thank you. But it's very difficult to get a doctor to think outside the conventional box. Treatment of anemia associated with CKD (renal insufficiency) is acceptable. But his renal functions are pretty good. I'm actually trying, but so far have failed to convince my father's GP to use erythropoeitin to treat his anemia. I also asked a geriatrics doctor, with the same results. His anemia is not considered serious enough, and the insurance company probably will not pay for the expensive treatment. But I will look over his medical history to see if T was tested. If it's low, I will probably run against the same resistance.
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roger larre Roger, if he does not have the blood test, you can get a male basic panel from Life Extension for $75 and a CBC/Chemistry panel ( includes iron, but not ferritin)for $35, if you are close to a Lab Corp. I do not know where you live, but there are multiple Drs. who will prescribe compounded testosterone from a local pharmacy and it is not very expensive. I would look up compounding pharmacies on the internet, visit the pharmacy and get the names of Drs. that use the pharmacy. It does require a script and insurance will not pay for it. Note that compounded T is not the best. If you have a copy of Life Extensions" Disease Prevention and Treatment" there is a chapter on ideal male hormone levels. You can purchase DHEA-S and pregnenolone from LEF for a few pennies/day. The male panel includes DHEA which I believe is as important as T in many ways. It also includes estradiol which may be even more important than T for senior males. Males get estradiol from aromatization of our T in the liver.
I know that medicare will not pay for a lot of this, but there are ways to keep the cost down. It is also something for you to consider as you start to merge with the setting sun.
I do not agree with MAC in that it is my opinion that maintaining optimal hormone levels is critical if not essential to preventing dementia, sarcopenia, osteoporosis etc. in seniors and there are multiple papers on this. There are certainly other actions one must take which include vitamins, fish oil, exercise and proper diet ( no simple carbs and at least 12 hours of fasting).The motivation to do this , in my opinion, depends on ones hormone levels.
Finally you may want to consider fisetin and follow Mayo's protocol. I am 80 and found this supplement to be "miraculous". Mayo is using this in 3, phase 2 trials to prevent frailty in seniors. It is cheap and I buy from Swansons. There is a thread in this forum where a number of individual feel the same way I do. However, like all issues, there are some of who disagree.
Attached are just some of the multiple papers on these topics.
https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/151/2/628/2456433
https://www.agelessmenshealth.com/low-testosterone-levels-predicts-dementia-risk/
http://www.encognitive.com/node/12840
I apologize for the wordiness. Suggest the first step is the blood test and go from there.
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Peter H. Howe I was referenced in your post about "not agreeing with MAC"? What exactly do you disagree with? Was it with regard to iron levels? I think you referenced hormones, but I haven't posted anything about hormones? But for the record, I am under the care of an FMD who specializes in hormones for pro-aging, and have been on DHEA and injection Testosterone for years (55 yo male). I (my doc) monitors ALL my hormones like a hawk for OPTIMAL health.
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MAC Mac, your post implied that donating blood could be a remedy for Roger's fathers anemia. This is unlikely to happen and I note that Red cross will not accept blood from an anemic person. I also note the first paper you posted indicated that anemia in many studies is commonly associated with cognitive decline in seniors which includes Alzheimers, but as you suggested this may not indicate causation.
Given this association, it would not be advisable to increase anemia. The papers and the LEF book I referenced for Larry to review clearly document that testosterone therapy for anemia and cognitive decline may be a viable option to treat his father. The LEF book also has section on treatment of anemia and recommends among other options testosterone treatment.
My suggestion to Roger was for him to have have his fathers T tested ( along with DHEA and estradiol) and go from there with reference to LEF's book as a basic reference. I also included a suggestion as to how to proceed if his father is resource limited or how to find a physician.
There are multiple reasons given why women on average live 5 years longer than men. One is that women are smaller than men and as a consequence undergo less free radical damage over their lifetimes. . Second is that women in general have less demanding/health compromising physical jobs. Always remember you are comparing all women versus all men.
A better argument is that males that are neutered early in life will on "average" live 20 years longer. This association was speculated to be due to improved immunity as testosterone is a contributing factor to the decline of the thymus- but who knows. There are also numerous option/methods to improve ones immunity, and that is another effort.
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Peter H. Howe I see, you completely misunderstood my post, my bad. Did not imply that in the slightest. I was only discussing completely separate topic of donating blood to dump iron and for rejuvenation/pro longevity.
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MAC Thanks . Forgot to mention in previous post that women who get hysterectomy also live ~5 years longer than other women.
I am looking at plasmaphoresis. I am border line anemic and prefer not to give up my RBC's. Suspect will give it a try if current accolades continue. Keeping up with Conboys etc. Waiting for someone on this forum to report out as occurred with fisetin.
Have a good year.
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I just ordered fisetin looks like there are a couple of protocols, 1 gram per day for a few days or 500mg per day for 5 days. I'm going to try the 5 day one first.
Have made the rapa skin cream with arbotrex dmso product at 10mg per oz of cream. Works great on hands and arms, but too harsh for my face so I mixed up the same with a derma e hydrating face product which seems better. Only 2 weeks in on this and sore spots that were always festering have started to heal for the first time in years. Keratosis spots seem to be softening.. taking pics every week to document.
Took some rapa the last two weeks started low 3mg. Will continue for a month or two and increase probably to 5mg per week. Wife got some extra energy, me no difference yet.
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Thank you all for the various suggestions. Let me mention that my father has been tested for all possible (known) causes of his very mild anemia, and all proved negative. No Iron deficiency, no B12/Folate deficiency, no malignancies,..etc. It does not seem wise to me to further burden his frail system by having him donate blood in order dilute his plasma. It would worsen his anemia, and the body will not be able to reconstitute his blood quickly enough. In a younger person it might make sense though. His GP has told me to take him to a Hematologist or Kidney specialist if I want him to be treated with Erythropoeitin. About Fisetin...I've been taking 200mg daily for 8 years as a preventive. Since late onset Alzheimer's seems to run in my father's family, I am concerned about it so I myself take it, and I've been giving it to him for about 3 years. R Alpha Lipoic Acid (600mg daily) and D3 (5000 IU or enough to boost levels above 50,000) are also part of our staple. In addition, I've had very good results recommending Benfotiamine to my father and friends who suffered from T2DM peripheral neuropathy. Their neuropathy completely resolved after several months of administration. In my opinion it works better than the other recommended regimen, B12/Folate. One particular friend, who's had T2DM for 30 years, was on his last legs (no pun intended) with foot pain and numbness caused by neuropathy. 6 months of Benfotiamine administration completely resolved it. And now I see it is in clinical trials for Alzheimer's also. I will say one other thing concerning Alzheimer's, if anyone is concerned about it. I was suffering from slight memory issues a few years ago, and also issues with concentration. I discovered a brain game called Double Decision, from Posit Science, which exercises memory and peripheral vision, and it did wonders for me. I've been using it for 4 years. It is the only cognitive training proven to reduce the incidence of Alzheimer's by so much (50%). NO ther brain game or cognitive training has proven it can do this. BTW, I am not connected in any way or benefit financially from recommending this, in case anyone wonders. I am including a link to the research in case anyone is interested.
https://www.statnews.com/2016/07/24/brain-training-cuts-dementia-risk
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roger larre Great insights, thank you. How much was the daily amount of Benfotiamine needed to help with the foot pain caused by T2DM? Do you remember? I have a friend suffering from this. And...if you have any other vitamin/mineral supplements you'd recommend in concert with the Benfotiamine, to help with the foot T2DM, I'd be grateful:)
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Kenneth James Brady From all the research I have done, neuropathy relief occurs at a threshold dose of somewhere between 600-900mg daily. You might have an effect at lower doses, but if you dont then dont give up until you try doses in that range.
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Fred Cloud Thank you!!
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Perhaps nicotine chewing gum can also help to stimulate neurons, to "remember". But nicotine can also be habit forming, so be careful not to overdose. start with 1/2 gram, two times per day.
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Update:
The aggressive Rapa cream is working great on my Hands, Arms and the non DMSO product is helping on the face, but not as fast, as expected. Looks like even hard solar keratosis is going to be healed within 2-3 months, which is better than Retin A which I tried for 5 years!
Took the Fisetin, did not get any reactions, but have been on Resveratrol for a couple years, did up to 5 day water fasting, so that probably already took care of those old cells.
Taking the Rapa weekly, feeling OK, some up and down days as usual, but need to increase weight lifting again....to minimize sarcopenia.
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Steve Olsen Hate to ask but do you have any before and after pics to share? TY
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Michael I am tK8ng
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Michael I am taking pics every other week it has been less than 2 months. The dozen keratosis are definitely softening and appear thinning. I will be happy to provude some after they improve as much as possible. I also have pics of my face which is improving slower but festering small sores have healed over Already. Others that were turning into keratosis seem to be healing too. I have age spots which do not seem to be lightening but there is laser lightherapy that should work well for this. Give me another month or so and I will put he photos together with a time series for reference. Then I will make them available with my formulations for reference.
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