Is Young Plasma Really a Worthwhile Treatment for Aging?
The RAADFest 2018 Special Report of September 20, 2018 lists administration of blood plasma taken from young donors as one alternative in Step 4 in dealing with aging. Today a news article in the Huffington Post entitled "He Hawks Young Blood As A New Miracle Treatment - All That’s Missing Is Proof" examines the $8,000 Ambrosia Corp. young-plasma treatment and portrays it as questionable medicine by a marginal MD who never finished his residency at a Boston hospital and is barred from medical practice in Massachusetts.
The article points out that in the often-quoted test with young and old mice with joined circulatory systems, the young mice were negativity impacted by the test far more than the old mice were helped. One of the scientists involved in the test questioned whether it made any sense to administer 2 liters of young plasma to an aged human in a couple of days, based on their mouse experiment.
I question whether the Age Reversal Network should be promoting this scheme.
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FWIW my small opinion is that I'm skeptical of the young plasma treatment. One, because it's difficult and expensive.
Two, because it seems so obvious. It makes intuitive sense that giving young blood to old would be rejuvenating, but it's too convenient. If you consider the history of invention, it's usually the not obvious that ends up being a solution to a problem. For example consider Metformin. A diabetes drug that we find has longevity effects - huh? This is unexpected, but most discoveries are like this.
Finally it's as you say, not only do we have no evidence, but we have no idea of the mechanism. Sure it seems obvious that 'something' in the blood must be doing good, but it could be like fecal transplants. You know, the idea that healthy people have healthy gut bacteria so all you got to do is put that bacteria in unhealthy people. Sure - except the unhealthy lifestyle of those people continues to promote unhealthy gut bacteria. Could be the same here, that you might get a 'cocktail' temporary boost but little long term effect as your aged body continues to do what it does.
It could work though, sure. If I was older and richer I might try it.
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I think JGC is very right to question this intervention at this point. I have read very little on it but was discussing it with a friend MD regarding the impact on Alzheimer disease. I think it is not at all clear the age the young donor should be, how many transfusions are beneficial and of course the side effects you all have mentioned and they are too many of them for me at this stage.
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Overall I think the transfusion of young blood experiments have merit. However to me it seems that the quantity and frequency of transfusion are so low that the positive effects are too tiny to be discerned.
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Dennis
Yes but you seem to imply that a quantity and frequency are defined or there is some supporting evidence. I am not sure but I am referring mostly to AD. And if there is evidence it could also maybe be reverse, meaning too high? Bottom line I do not know but you are right, it is very worth to study in clinical trials considering the potential benefits.
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albedo let me elaborate. I think the quantity ( about 2 liters) and the frequency ( only once ?) is way too low. If I were to experiment I would do the following:
- Go for as high a frequency that is safe. Perhaps every day?
- Go for as high a volume as safe. Also remove 'old' blood from recipient before transfusion.
-Use whole blood instead of plasma. Using whole blood will include a larger spectrum of substances that promotes youth than just plasma.
Only by trying out the extremes can one decisively know the outcome in a relatively short period.
The big roadblock in all of this is the cost. I'm not sure what is pushing up the costs. Is screening for diseases very expensive? what else is adding to the cost?
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Dennis
The Huffington Post article that I referenced above points out that transfusing two liters of plasma into the bloodstream of an otherwise healthy individual is not without its own risks. In rare cases, transfusion complications can be fatal. Apparently, the only recipient of the the Ambrosia treatment that gave a positive review subsequently died of cardiac arrest (perhaps unrelated, but who knows?). You advocate "trying out extremes", but they can kill people. Ambrosia needs to release ALL the results of the young-plasma treatments they have already done, so that they can be evaluated by unbiased reviewers.
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Taking a step back - what is the purpose of blood? Mainly to transport stuff around the body. In itself it serves little purpose AFAIK, unlike say the liver which performs many complex tasks (converts one thing to another, stores and releases another (glucose), filters out other stuff and moves it to the urine). So by comparison, it's clear that if we, for example, replace the damaged liver of an old person with that of a young they will get a beneficial youthful liver again. Same goes for any other organ, but blood? Here today gone tomorrow.
To be fair I think Bill's take on it is that there are <somethings> in young blood that old blood lacks. So the idea is it's kind of a super supplement. Again that sounds good but we need more evidence in this case given the risks and costs (IMHO).
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Dan That's not really the case, though. Blood carries all sorts of hormones, enzymes, and other chemical messengers, as well as stem cells. GDF11 in particular seems to have a dramatic impact; Google Steve Perry's work on GDF11.
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Paul Tozour I know all about Steve's work, otherwise I think you're not following my point.
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Dan I don't think I am misunderstanding you, though. If you're saying, "here today, gone tomorrow" -- well, no. The parabiosis experiments in mice make it very clear that young blood has the potential for significant and lasting improvements in the treated organism well after the parabiosis treatment has finished. The effects are long-lasting.
Obviously we don't have the results on human subjects yet but there's no reason to assume it would be very different.
https://futurism.com/fountain-youth-effect-young-blood-old-mice
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JGC, there is no question in my mind that young plasma is a very effective anti-aging treatment, I have seen it with my own two eyes! I even paid for the treatment for my girlfriend in Thailand.
Also, I would not take any "hit piece" published in HuffPo too seriously (or much else they print, for that matter IMO)!
Apparently, using a blood transfusion to treat heart disease and high blood pressure is pretty common in Thailand, though it's not considered to be "anti-aging." More like "anti-heart disease and high blood pressure," - which of course are effects of aging.
In my GF's case, she was having chest pains and difficulty breathing for several months, at one point even was on oxygen. "Not enough blood going to the heart," the doctor told her, also he diagnosed the high-blood pressure. He told her she would need a blood transfusion and that she should come back with her son (he's 22 years old).
When she returned, the doctor took a half-liter from the son and administered it to my GF. She walked out of that clinic a few hours later and was fine! She has been healthy ever since, even though the doctor said she must return after 6 months for a second dose (she never did). She certainly looked and acted a lot healthier when I saw her 3 months later. She runs around now and exercises regularly without any heart issues at all! It's been about 2 years since the treatment, I think.
The only thing I question about this Ambrosia company is the $8,000 price tag. My GF was charged for this treatment a whopping 5,000 Baht, which is about $150 US. I know that for a fact because I wound up paying the bill!
IMO the effects of young blood seem pretty similar the the cardiovascular benefits reported for +NAD or GDF11. I suspect the young blood has high levels of both, plus probably some other important molecules we don't know about yet.
My GF still looks her age, and still has gray hairs BTW. But she will obviously live a lot longer from the treatment clearing up the cardiovascular problems. So in that way, it's definitely "anti-aging."
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Jungle Joel
I think we are comparing apples with oranges here, as they say. I suspect that your Thai physician transfused a half-liter (1.1 pints) of whole blood (cells and all) from your GF's son to her bloodstream.
That's very different from transfusing two liters (4.4 pints) of a stranger's blood plasma, i.e., filtered blood with all the cells removed, as Ambrosia is doing. It's probably the extra red blood cells that helped your girl friend's recovery.
As others have commented, I find it difficult to believe that there would be any lasting beneficial effects from the Ambrosia procedure. Whatever beneficial molecules might be present in the plasma, they would be gone in a day or so
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Jungle Joel Thanks for mentioning the positive story that you are aware of. It certainly is part of the jigsaw puzzle that most of here are trying to put together. Also, interesting that you mention the low cost. For $150 ( or a little more because the donor will have to be compensated) I'm sure that several more people including me will be willing to try.
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Dennis I have no doubt that both young whole blood and young plasma would be readily available in Thailand for a low cost (at least compared to the United States) to anyone with the time and effort to look into it. I'm not interested in the procedure for myself as I'm still young (55) and healthy. But Thailand would be the first place I would go if I wanted this procedure done. I've lived there for the past several years and have used both Thai doctors and dentists and have been quite satisfied with the care and cost. Also drugs like Metformin are very cheap, and don't require a prescription.
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JGC With the average human having only about 5 liters of blood to begin with, I would be a little uneasy putting 2 liters of a stranger's blood in me, for sure. I would rather just wait until science discovers the exact mechanism, perhaps a protein, that produces the touted effect. Then take that instead.
My GF weighs 50 kilos, so I suspect she has less than 5 liters of blood in her to begin with. So the half-liter would represent over 10 percent of her total blood supply. Apparently that was enough to jump-start her cardiovascular healing process. There is also definitely something in the blood being "used-up" - which is why the doctor told her she would need a second transfusion after six months.
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Hi everybody. Just joined. Excited about all the research and potential. Very skeptical about young blood transfusion being a big benefit. Blood cells don't live very long then what ever effect would be gone. $8000.00 for that!?
What about transplanting young bone marrow from accident victims? Not a scientist but it would make more sense. Sure someone did that already.
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HRS any tissue other than blood ( organs, marrow etc.) have the following drawbacks:
1)Donor/recipient matching is difficult.
2)Invasive - requires surgery, hence higher risks.
3)Relatively limited supply.
From a concept point of view it is indeed sound, but the reason blood is used is that is the easiest to transplant.
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HRS It's not just about the blood cells. Blood also includes things like GDF11 -- Google Steve Perry's research on this.
As far as transplanting young bone marrow from accident victims -- not sure there's actually any need for this. They can already generate mesenchymal stem cells from fat extracted from your own body -- US Stem Cell Clinic in Florida is doing that right now.
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I get that and of course matching would have to be done. But once it is done it is not a waste of time as a blood transplant would be. Near unlimited supply of dogs and rats to experiment on anyway.
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One component of young blood which may be missing with age is GcMAF. This subjects the individual to aging, infirmity and disease. A supplement was available on the market made from source plasma called GOleic until the FDA banned it as an unapproved drug. No matter to the FDA that GOleic actually brought health back to sick people. The Japanese have found another source for GcMAF. It is called colostrum MAF and can be ordered over the internet. Look at these links for more info. Amazing stuff.
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Danny Smith
I note that colostrum MAF supplements are indeed available on the Internet, but they are rather pricey. A quick web search indicates that they seem to cost $3.70 to $7.50 per 1 mg tablet, and the recommended dose is 2 per day. Therefore, be prepared to spend around $300/month on this supplement.
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JGC JGC
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JCG - I use a colostrum GcMAF cream. It costs a little over $250 for 30 ml airless pump jar. You just pump out enough to cover the finger tip and spread on the desired spot or a place that will permit reaching the blood stream. This jar can last up to 3 months. It is kept refrigerated. It works because my Nagalase level has been decreasing to avoid prostate cancer which runs in my family. I don't want to give you my supplier because I am afraid that the evil socialist FDA will try to raid them in the states like they did the doctors who were prescribing GOleic for autism. The pharmaceutical industry is deathly afraid of GcMAF because it cures so many diseases, disorders, syndromes and conditions. It even regrows hair. Look at those links for just a sampling of what it does in the body. It is anti-aging.
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Danny Smith
Interesting.
I note that colostrum GcMAF creams are available for sale on the Internet, with prices ranging from $89 (for 1,500 ng) to $798 (for 15,000 ng) per jar, depending on strength. The strengths are quoted in thousands of ng (1 nanogram = 10^-9 g), which sounds to me like a rather tiny amount (just a few micrograms). But perhaps it is powerful stuff, and one doesn't need much. Your references are mainly anecdotal and do not mention dose strengths.
You say that your spray is 30 ml. Does that include the liquid carrier, or is that the concentration of colostrum GcMAF?
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JGC
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